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rFactor 2 – Brabham-Repco BT20 Update Released

Image Space Incorporated has released a new version of the Brabham-Repco BT20 Formula One car for rFactor 2.

Image Space Incorporated has released a new version of the Brabham-Repco BT20 Formula One car for rFactor 2.

Changelog

– Added Jack Brabham and Denny Hulme AI drivers.

Physics
– ModelWheelsIncludeAllTireMass’ fix / enhancement.
– Moved to ultra chassis (with Chassis Flex).
– Inertia’s recalculated for total body and for individual parts (such as brake discs, etc).
– Revised suspension geometry from scratch. Pushrod locations are also using the new method and which should give accurate motion ratio’s throughout the entire range of travel of the suspension.
– Dampers and springs revised to match.
– Reduced maximum steering lock so that tyres would not intersect suspension parts.
– Moved over to new steering system.
– Tyres scratch made. The old ones were slightly too wide and rear radius was too low. Also the effect of real road on these old tyres has been reduced the tyres also have a lower wear rate.
– Numerous minor AI correlation tweaks.
– Tweaked undertray locations and added one more point.
– Brake system completely recalculated based on new data (the effective Brake Bias is ‾57% front on default).
– Differential now allows preload adjustments.
– New tyre parameters included for wet weather added.
– Engine life tweaked.
– Minor fixes.

Sound
– Using new sound internal / external attenuation variables and scrub individually to tyre sounds.

Graphics
– Brand new historic driver, completely from scratch.
– Added individual driver faces for a more authentic feel.
– Graphically corrected front rims to 15″, front tyre radius slightly reduced. Tyre widths also slightly adjusted.
– Brake discs corected to 11″ (F/R)
– Steering wheel mapping update
– Shaders update
– Various textures updated
– Holes in the back+under car body fixed
– Minor LOD distance tweaks.
– Included additional liveries by our test team.

UI
– Class name now occupies only 1 entry in vehicle filter list.
– Category now starts at manufacturer to be more consistent with other cars.

Successor to the BT19, the BT20 was campaigned by the Brabham Formula One Team during the 1966 and 1967 Formula One season before making it into privateer hands in subsequent years.

[boxdownload]Download Brabham-Repco BT20 for rFactor 2 Here[/boxdownload]
  • Chris Wright

    A long, busy day means that I’m some hours away from trying this, but it has brightened up my lunch break nonetheless to know that these much needed and long awaited changes have been made.

    My principle hope is that the car is going to feel more planted than before and not launch off like a wayward missile at the slightest input.

    • Matthew Arnold

      I like the car now, i was scared to drive it before because the way i drive meant i couldnt get a single lap in without wrecking.

      NOW ive just done a few laps of nords and only wrecked once, which for me in this car on that track is amazing 🙂

    • john

      Your desires are fulfilled 🙂 Updatet car is better in everyway

    • TC

      Didn’t agree, but is just different views. I found the car great (i loved before and love now).

      But, is really neccesary mention rf2’s graphics in this topic?. We all know how these graphics are. ISI revealed that a big update in lightning is coming, but is not mentioned here or in any other site.

      • Chris Wright

        Sure it’s valid to mention it, as it is all part of the driving experience and my return to try this car reinforced my views on the subject. Let’s hope ISI can catch up, but right now I’d say they are well behind the competition.

      • Matthew Arnold

        Can you link me to where they have talked about graphics upgrades please. I haven’t seen that 😀

      • TC
      • Matthew Arnold

        nice, i cannot wait to see how much better this looks:)

    • Associat0r

      Meh, I could handle it fine with just a keyboard and the graphics look fine too.

      Maybe this will help.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM

      • Matthew Arnold

        Have you got a wheel and proper PC? Or do you only use a laptop?

      • Associat0r

        I have both, but I don’t use it much, because I find a wheel uncomfortable on a regular desk.

    • Jordan Meagher

      mate all you need to do is drive it like its ment to be drived… like a crazed mad man not afraid to die !! then and only then you will become one with this demon on a machine !

      • Chris Wright

        Played around with setup and brake balance a bit and it felt better, but still to twitchy at the limit. Tires just never seem to grip properly. Oh well, some people love it, which is good.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Come on, its a car with absolutely no downforce, ancient tyre tec and a shitload of horsepower for it’s weight. I mean, what do people expect these days? Those tyres where far harder than the racing tires from today, no wonder that you don’t gain grip easily.

        Those cars needed real top drivers to be driven at the limit, people like Clark, Jack Bramham or Phill Hill to name a few big names of those times. And people feel unimpressed if they can’t “manage” such a car or get comfortable with it within one day. Sure, PC or AC make you feel like Clark. But doing what those guys did within a few minutes, with just hop in and drive just seems laughable. And even more if WE are honest to ourselfes.

        If it is too twitchy, make the suspension stiffer. And for some more info on driving techniques:
        http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/cars/1966-brabham-repco-bt20/

      • Chris Wright

        You totally missed the point. It’s not the first and only 1960’s car in sim racing is it. Of course those cars are a handful. The debate here is how realistic this BT20 is. I say not very.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        And I see armchair racers managing it around Nords with ease. I am not saying, that I am better than you in terms of driving techiniques ore anything. But the reason that there are enough people capable to drive this car, means something 😉

      • Chris Wright

        For me there is a general confusion in this hobby about learning to drive around a car’s unrealistic physics and then calling those jockeys aliens or whatever.

        We are seeing top drivers setting very good times in RRE. I wonder if they’d be able to jump into this BT20 and repeat that sort of performance, real road or not!

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Well, this sim car will never be a real BT20 for obvious reasons. But if I can handle this car relatively well without crashing or spinning, when not overshooting the limits, it doesn’t seem to be too difficult. Considering that I have no drivers lisence but just the understanding of what the car does makes it even more obvious. You simply have to understand, what it does. There is a good interview with Jacky Steward explaining driving techniques and I think that it shows the essential parts of understanding how a car and it’s suspension works and it applies to the BT20 in rF2. I am pretty sure that good sim racers do this aswell, not just because they exploint the game, but they have an idea what the car is doing and they react according to their senses. Alot of it has to do with simple reactions. How you apply the throttle, how the suspension is moving up and down while you apply throttle or push the breaks etc.

        You can always argue, that a sim car is unrealistic. But that’s not the point. The question is, how good it approximates it’s real counterpart. And in this case it does what a car with that kind of weight, horsepower and soft suspension and no aerodynamics does. And in fact it plays an important role, how the real road and all the dynamics within the sim work. You need alot more time to get comfortable with the car, as the track has less grip at the beginning. Warming the tires and especialy the breakes takes time. I am pretty sure an alien will set his best time not on a green track. That’s for sure.

        I watched the last FSR season and it was pretty interesting to see Bono Huis struggeling at the beginning while he had issues getting used to the new tire management within rF2. At the end he won, but it took him a good effort.

    • David Hughes

      I find that odd, because the handling reminded very much of GPL, not necessarily realistic, but very much ‘controllable’, whilst not easy to control (even though that might seem to be a contradiction!).

    • Mat Holloway

      Most of us know, that a simulated car is not the same as the
      car itself. There will never be a 1 to 1 ratio in a consumer grade simulation.

      I know this is an obvious statement, but it does need to be
      clear.

      The Devs updated this car as they have been doing with
      various version 1 releases with new data they have obtained.

      So on paper, the car is as close to the real life car as is
      possible. There may be anomalies such as overall weight due to something in the
      core not finalised, so it may be an offset so to speak until the core is
      updated.

      The number one thing you need to understand about this car
      is weight transfer. Not grip, not power, not over or understeer.

      As you enter a corner, ask yourself which corner of the car
      is under the most load. How long does it take for the chassis to regain
      composure?

      With chassis flex, you need to change how you think about
      sim driving. You are no longer on a flat static board, managing suspension and tyres.

      Settle the car before turn in, settle the car before
      applying throttle.

      Understand that when you floor it, the rear suspension compresses,
      the tyres squish under the load, the chassis flexes, the diff is managing all the power you are trying to give it.

      This is a complex set of equations and nothing in sim racing
      may have prepared you for all this output that you can feel so succinctly once you have acclimatised.

      I do understand that we are not only talking about corner
      exit here, but I hope it is understood this applies equally to every corner type in this incredible car. I can tell you for a car without aero, it feels incredibly planted coming out of Les Combes, Malmedy and Stavelot. Malmedy and Blanchimont it gets a bit light and having the chassis settled is critical here.

      For reference, around 1966 Spa we are doing 3m36 laps or
      3m50 on a full wet track.

  • Matthew Arnold

    I love it 🙂

  • Alexandre Martini

    should i try the old version before this one? can you feel a difference with the new chassis flex?

    • Gui Cramer

      Don’t even bother with the old version

    • Matthew Arnold

      No, just try the new one.

  • Chris Tataryn

    It’s Killer!
    Did some hot laps at Spa….
    It’s fast and stable, but the limit has this progressive oversteer that is one of the sweetest things in life! Catchable and seriously fun to watch the suspension!

  • D3

    Bloody great drive, it really is a nice update for the car. Hope the same will come for the other historic content.

    Still has that brilliant controllability, using the throttle to slide and control how the rear of the car is moving through the corner. Just like you see the photos of the old drivers, slinging them around the track.
    Nice updates to the model too, with the drivers and tyre sizes fixed.

  • Kev

    Looking forward to giving it a proper workout but first impression from a very short session is very good. In full disclosure I loved the previous version as well. My outlook on simracing was forever transformed the first time I sat in an ISI rF2 60s open wheel vehicle and that was even before I had developed the skills to fully appreciate what they had to offer. In fact, the Spark F1 was the reason I decided to fully dedicate myself to study, practice and testing.

    Regarding drivability anyone who finds this vehicle difficult to drive has a clear choice. Learn how to master it (AKA learn how to drive) and forever transform your sim racing life or wallow in mediocrity. Funny thing is that this vehicle is nowhere near the most challenging vehicle to drive either and not one of the vehicles in rF2 is beyond the reach of anyone up to the challenge of developing skill which is what sim racing is all about. All I can recommend to those incapable of driving this car is that you ask yourself how others can 9_9

    • Matthew Arnold

      If you not gentle with this car until you understand it, it will kill you lol. But it has to be one of the most rewarding cars if you get it right.

    • Chris Wright

      I’m assuming your typically abrasive comments are partially aimed at me, which is fine, I’m sure you’re a far better sim racer than me and I’m pleased to be a conduit for you to tell the world how marvelous you are. I never have pretended to be anything other than an old farty who likes to mess around with cars.

      All that being said, I still think that mastering this car is, in some senses, harder than mastering the real thing. To me that’s not proper simulation. I’m completely comfortable with the challenges of GPL and the Lotus 49’s in pCars and AC. I just find the rF2 BT20 to be too inclined to part company with the track for, what I consider, are not real life reasons. The response of the car to what you might call negative inputs are still so extreme. It barrel rolls with very slight contact with the barriers etc.

      In general I love rF2 driving models and get on fine with them. When this one was upgraded this week, I hoped it would become less twitchy at the limit, but it just isn’t for me, no matter what I do to setup.

      • Jetexocet

        As someone has already mentioned on a previous post, making sim cars difficult to drive does not make them realistic. Some of these handling characteristics among certain vehicles, not just in Rf2, but across a lot of titles, do not feel totally natural. I would be involved in a lot of accident/crashes if some these physics were relayed through my car. At the end of the day, if a sim car handles in way I would expect it to, and I can correct slides/over and understeer (with some tuning options thrown in) even if you have never driven it, and let’s face it, not a lot of us are going to get a chance to race or try the vast majority of vehicles in these titles, and it looks and sounds great, that’s good enough for me. Believe it or not, Dirt 2/3 got pretty damn close as a simcade title for delivering a physics model that I felt the most at home with. Powersliding around corners in that title never felt more natural and always put a smile on my face. Apologies for going a bit off topic, I seemed to have got a bit carried away with myself.

      • Chris Wright

        Very much how I see it.

      • JES

        “But
        really is that mastering a slippery sim car on ice, or a proper
        replication of real life driving? I know what I think.”

        A real life car can be as slippery as you want, depending on how it is designed. When you add a 300+ BHP engine to a light car that generates no downforce, then needless to say, the car will be “hard” to drive and not comparable to any street cars. The only way you would know is to get a testimony from the real racers of the 60’s era.

      • Chris Wright

        “The only way you would know is to get a testimony from the real racers of the 60’s era.”

        Hehe, don’t bother with saying that around here. Any time an r/l driver makes a positive comment about a sim there’s a torrent of accusations about these guys being paid to make those comments.

      • QUF

        There is game engine physics, then there are car specific physics/data/systems.

        You can’t completely (underline that word) compare race cars with your average street car. Driving knowledge and technique is different for city family cars and race cars from all classes.

        Try the alfa romeo giuletta in Assetto Corsa and you’ll basically experience the same thing as in your city car. Of course car is different from yours, but is in the same driving style class.

      • Jetexocet

        Fair comment. I will try the Alfa and see how I get on. For reference, I have a Mark 5 Golf GTI stage 2 map at 267 bhp and 290 ftlb and have used it on a track day at Silverstone pushing it as hard as I dare, and always felt it was a lot easier and more in control than anything I have tried of a similar ilk in the sim world. This is not a criticism of any title’s physics as I can’t imagine how difficult and time consuming it must be to program these physics to try and get as close to the real thing. For me at least, physics does not need to be 100% accurate, so long as I get that natural controllable feel through the wheel without it being unnecessarily difficult in the name of realism.

      • Kev

        Codemasters deliberately and unapologetically made drifting easy (i.e. faked) in Dirt 2.

      • coops17

        check out isi forums on the new release comments some good tips there

      • Gui Cramer

        Chris, try making the rear camber -1.2 and detach the rear ARB. If you still struggle, on the first page try increasing the differential power by a couple of clicks.

      • Kev

        Well we have some common ground then. Old farty’s stick with Clio lol.

  • David Hughes

    I think ISI have finally achieved what they set out to with this car – GPL 2 basically.

    As with GPL, you need to steer using the throttle and using real finese, but it is very controllable when you do. A lot of fun when you get into the zone, you feel good for getting it right, but fully responsible when it goes wrong too – that seems to be the key feature of the current RF2 tyre model, and something the other sims are behind on IMO.

    • Matthew Arnold

      Yes this car is much more manageable IMHO now. It will destroy you though if your not careful, much like what I expect it was like IRL 😀

      • David Wright

        Brabhams were actually very user friendly.

      • Marc Collins

        Yah, compared to other wild stallion F1 cars of their era. But they weren’t user friendly per se…only a handful of the top racers from F3 and F2 could make it to F1 and manage to safely race the full-powered versions of these cars. And “safely” is also a relative term. By today’s standards, no one in F1 today would ever step into the car for an actual competitive race. The men who raced these cars were like WWII flying heroes. No relationship to us today. The car demands respect or you will pay almost immediately.

        The new version gives you a couple of fractions of a second more notice when you have erred. You are correct that it isn’t a wholesale change from the prior version, because if it was, it would no longer be accurate.

        Even the racers of the era thought that the move to rear-engines was insane. Until eventually it was proven to be faster around the track–but much more difficult to handle successfully. Those few elite who could do it were very talented. You needed to tame the car over the whole race distance for the advantage to be of any use. Not many could do that at 9/10ths or 10/10ths.

      • David Wright

        You seem to be confusing safety if you crash with how forgiving a car is to drive. There is no evidence that the fatality rate in the period was due to the cars being difficult to drive, at least in dry conditions. The problem was if something broke or you hit an oil patch, you hit a tree or a house in a car which didn’t even have seat belts.

        I could produce period photos of BT20s at extreme angles of opposite lock without spinning, or describe how the drivers completed multiple two hour races without ever spinning but I guess you would explain this by the “elite” drivers. So perhaps best to agree to disagree.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        It is no secret that cars got easier to drive with the techincal progression and advancement in history of motor racing. Just compare what the drivers had to do with todays standards. Easiest example is if you just compare a lap from today in Monaco with one from the eighties, when drivers had to use h-shifters and do it all manually. The aerodynamics make it just more forgiving than in the 60s. A car without downforce vs. a car with high downforce. Now tell me wich F1 car is harder to drive. Another point is tire techniques. Even people like Senna complained about the technology gaining importance over the driver skill.

        At the end it is at it is: the harder a car is to handle, the smaller the margin for errors.

      • Kev

        And despite all that many of us are capable of lapping consistently within 0.5 seconds from lap to lap. Pretty impressive for driving on ice, don’t you think?

      • JES

        One doesn’t need any specific evidence for stating the car being difficult; common sense tells if you apply a 300+ BHP engine to a lightweight car generating almost no downforce, then the power to downforce/grip ratio is such that you wouldn’t be allowed to drive these cars in any modern competition.

      • Marc Collins

        Was just about to reply with the same point. Take one 550 kg go kart/bath tub and strap a 300 hp engine on the back of it = not user friendly in the conventional sense. Despite those stats and crap quality bias ply tires that even the cheapest car available today wouldn’t come with, and rear engine/extreme rear weight bias, you can still toss the thing around quite a bit. A miracle, really. But not a car you could just jump into and expect to drive like a faster, grippier version of your road car.

      • Kev

        I’d like to see these guys try the rF1 37gp mod with default setup

      • Kev

        Apparently few around here understand the saying “make it look easy”

      • David Hughes

        The car in RF2 doesn’t drive how I would expect it to compared to watching videos of the real car, seems overly throttle sensitive and just a bit slidey in general. However I am finding it a lot of fun, so that is a big consolation for not being so realistic, hence my comparison with GPL. I don’t think there is a closer match in any other sim though, so for now at least it is top of my pile.

      • David Dominguez

        I totally agree, I drove it today, it’s loads fun, but honestly, I saw some real onboard videos later and I can’t see much relation between the real ones and rF2 (or any other sim, tbh)… as you said the car is extremely sensitive (not only to throttle), whereas on most of those videos you see them steering into the corners with the car being very planted, and a slight corner exit oversteer, but nothing as exagerated in sims. I think GPL gave the idea that old F1s had to be insane to drive, but I fail to see that evidence.

      • Chris Wright

        Totally agree with you. The key word here is “planted” – that rF2 BT20 just isn’t is it. Yes, the top drivers of the time were unbelievably skilful and brave, but they were working with a much more stable platform – the difference between those heroes and mere mortals was the degree of performance they could wring out of those cars.

        It seems to me that a lot of the rF2 supporters on here are some of the biggest critics of pCars, but honestly I get more moments when I’m reminded of my own experience of performance cars in that sim than any other – not always a popular view, but I think you’ll find that SMS has really done their homework and come up with what it, for me at least, the best balance between simulation and reality yet.

      • Dean Doucette

        Counting the days until I can try Project Cars.

      • D3

        First off, why has Pcars been brought up, as if it is some kind of personal attack for you? We all have our own views and opinions, and to each of us, they are what is correct and right to us.

        My question to you is, do you not think your inputs and style of inputs to the car most affect the way it drives and behaves? I can drive a car any number of ways, setup too can change how a car behaves for the driver.
        I can take this car, and crack a bunch of laps out at spa or monaco, and keep things calm and controlled and steady. Setting quick and consistent times. I can then go and drive as close as I can to the limit, and get the car slipping and skating right on the edge, trying to go as fast as possible.

        How do you feel/think the drivers back in those days would have driven?
        For a current example of something similar, go look at the Isle of Man TT. Commonly mentioned that because of the danger, they hold things down a notch, ride at 70/80% say.

        Go and take the car out on a track with a bit of rubber, and force yourself to do 30 laps say. If you crash, you die type of thing. See how you end up driving…

      • Chris Wright

        Nice post except for your first para. Last time I checked, I live in a country where, within reason, I can bring up any subject I like. Totally fair that I brought it up as part of this thread is debating what is/isn’t realistic.

      • Farmer Ted

        You say it’s unrealistic because you can’t drive it, others disagree with you so you go off on a tangent about pcars.
        What’s up dear, bad day at the office? 😯

      • Jetexocet

        Most people’s opinion on this site is valid including yours, up till the point you said (What’s up dear, bad day at the office?) and then in my opinion you lost all credibility.😯

      • Farmer Ted

        I thought exactly the same thing about Chris’s rather unnecessarily abrupt response to a very good post by D3.

        Whatever though!

      • Chris Wright

        Let me be clear – I absolutely consider pCars to be a fantastic simulation – it is not going off on a tangent at all – the debate was about simulation realism – that is my opinion and, if I may turn things on their head for a moment, why the heck are you so bothered what my views are?

        If you read my posts I make it clear that I am not a world class sim racer, just a guy with aging reflexes and a love for this hobby. To suggest that my opinions about pCars are in some way sour grapes because I can’t get along with one car in rF2 is ludicrous, quite frankly.

        I have often defended ISI on this website in the face of abject criticism from others, so where does that figure in your theories?

      • Kev

        Let the record reflect that Chris likes pCars

      • Farmer Ted

        Let me be clear, I think pCars is fantastic as well and for the record I’m not bothered what your views are.
        Just curious as to why you are being (IMO) unusually cranky on this thread. Have a nice day.

      • Kev

        All roads lead to pCars, even if no one mentions it lol

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Comparing old videos from that era with how the car drives is pretty senseless in my opinion. Yeah, the car is very throttle sensetive, but that is to be expected with 300+ hp and a car weighing around 150 kg. What’s your evidence in those videos, that those drivers didn’t have to be careful with the throttle? Please tell me. We don’t see the throttle inputs in those videos, so all we do is a guessing game. But just going by those numbers and some physical logics should tell you that this amount of power needs to be handled with care, especialy if the tires don’t deliver huge amounts of grip on the rear, what naturaly leads to oversteering.

        And that you see them dirving into the corners with the car being planted is for the simple reason that you need to drive it planted and smooth to be fast. You can do the same with the BT20 in rF2. But wrong inputs will show quite fast, that’s in the nature of the car.

      • David Dominguez

        First of all, according to the physics files of this rF2 mod, the car weight’s 630kg, very (very!) far from your figures.

        Second, I never said that drivers didn’t have to be careful with throttle, or with any driving input, I simply stated that when I see videos from the 60s F1 cars, they look fairly planted. Sure we don’t know how much throttle they are using, but I don’t expect F1 drivers to be coasting around, they are F1 drivers at the end, so they were more likely pushing.

      • David Dominguez

        And that weight is without fuel… which could add >100kg more with full tank.

      • BSNismo

        Not tried the recent update but the original BT20 from ISI was exactly as described from you in comparison to the RL 60s cars, It was a brilliant sim car with excellent fidelity. The problem is, is people going from one sim to another and not dedicating time to learn the finesse of throttle application these cars require. Never found the 60s cars hard to handle in rF2, they just require a different technique to other cars found in other sims. Personally although not the same car I found the original BT20 from rF2 far more rewarding to drive than both iRacings and ACs Lotus 49. The classic F1 cars is where rF2 shines for me and honestly it’s where ISI should really focus on right now as they are miles ahead in terms of physics fidelity of classic formula cars. It’s what sets them from the rest of rest of the pack, every other sim right now is all about modern road and GT cars but nobody does classic F1 like rF2 for me

  • Gui Cramer

    I’d love to know how to get a couple of folks from the GPL modding community to try porting one car to rFactor 2, or at least provide some difficult to find information about the ’67 cars that could lead the devs to create another competitor and further refine the Brabham.

  • maranello55

    How many haf driven this car to make comments hands up pls

    • Marc Collins

      Hands up how many think that people who think you shouldn’t or can’t comment on a car unless you have driven the identical real life version should not bother to comment here?

      • maranello55

        *hands up
        Especially those who tell how a car shud behave n drive.

      • maranello55

        *hands up

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      By this strange logic, sim-racing forums would be pretty empty places.

      • maranello55

        Strange??? U know wuts the term ‘simulation’ means?

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Do you think that I don’t ?

      • maranello55

        If havin driven the car n sim n making comments is strange logic abt simulation….yeah…its strange

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Sorry don’t understand your English.

      • maranello55

        maybe dats the problem

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Yes maybe. And as I clearly have a better understanding of English than yourself, maybe that problem is on your end.

      • maranello55

        I doubt it. it is because u precisely understand by wut it means in English is the reason u still responding to my comments on this topic.

        Coz u entirely disagreed to my original post and unable to come up with a better argument to support ur case.

        Comment abt the language….not wuts being pass thru.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        How can I disagree with your original post ? It was a question, not a statement.

        But your question was to ask how many had driven the Brabham BT20 so that they are qualified to make comments.

        Why would you ask such a silly question unless it was to say that people who haven’t driven the car shouldn’t comment on it. Because that makes no sense at all.
        If people have to have driven the real cars in order to comment on them, then there wouldn’t be a lot of discussion going on.

        I gave my opinion on your question, that was not the same thing as a disagreement.

        I don’t need to come up with a better argument because your question was so silly to begin with.
        Your 2nd question had nothing to do with your first one or my response to it.
        You are just being antagonistic.

        I do barely understand your texting style of writing and your bad spelling (there is no such word as “wuts”), but it looks like it’s been written by a child.

      • maranello55

        oh…spelling nazi…

        u have failed to see the point of the question….for a guy as smart as urs, i can understand that.

        Obviously u dont know the definition of the word ‘simulation’

        Basically if u know n haf driven the car, the discussion wut be more precise and objective

        rather than never have driven the car and making all arguments, subjective.

        and talking about simulation, it has to represent what the car is in real life, and not wut drivers feel it needs to be.

        Go on, do a spell check xD

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Your question had no point to get.
        Sim-racers have been discussing sim cars since they came out whether they have driven the real car or not.
        If you only want to listen to people who have driven the real car then go ahead. Doesn’t affect me or anyone else.
        Why bother making an argument about it. You won’t be converting anyone to your ideals.

        And your idea of the definition of simulation IS wrong. I doubt anything you say will change that.

      • maranello55

        It was a question. I can think wuteva hell i want and im asking no one to submit to it.
        Thats where simracers are wrong. For u to simulate a drive….u shud take into account how does it do in real life. THAT is simulation.

        Like a flight simmer listens to how real life pilots do it. Having never flown a plane, u shudnt be entitled to say how the plane shud behave and feel. Dat is not simulation.

        And that is wrong? Come on…xD

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        You are confusing ‘simulation’ with assumption/presumption and opinion.

        Simulation is a totally different thing.

        Anyway I am not going to argue with you as this is too frivolous to take up my time.

        So lets just end it here and be done with it, ok ?

      • maranello55

        Im kool. Nice talking to u mate.

  • gimmelbop

    I haven’t driven this car, nor have I driven any similar cars in real life, but looking at videos from this era in similar cars doesn’t show much sliding around

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxOwxsob67Q

    • Jos

      wrong era, only 210 bhp for clarks car, the brabham has 285, still not much though…

  • http://www.fb.com/isa.simuladores I S A Simuladores

    The problem may be on the right foot of virtual pilot (flat flat)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5eVyYNPwDw

    • Jos

      “It was actually the offside driveshaft that broke, which flailed and
      cleared out all the surrounding suspension. After that it was only a
      matter of time until the tyres stopped the car. It was fixed pretty
      quickly after and is still being used and fixed alot to this day.”

      next.

  • Kev

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