VirtualR.net - 100% Independent Sim Racing News

Project CARS – Lots of New Community Previews

Slightly Mad Studios have released the newest Project CARS Community Gallery, showing off stunning screenshots created by the busy WMD community during the past week.

Slightly Mad Studios have released the newest Project CARS Community Gallery, showing off stunning screenshots created by the busy WMD community during the past week.

The 48 shots present lots of the new content that has been added to the title in the last two weeks, including the new point to point tracks and the Palmer Jaguar JP-LM.

The previews show off purely in-game footage without any post processing as Project CARS offers screenshot makers plenty of tools to create stunning images, including a free roam camera and a depth of field editor.

All content seen in the screens is instantly available to try in the latest development builds for team members. Team Membership is available for a one-time payment of 25€, entitling members to a weekly development build of Project CARS with all the latest content.

For more info on membership pricing and benefits, please check out the WMD website.

  • Nathan Robinson

    Here is a small movie i made this weekend using the new build and the cars that i’m currently enjoying 🙂

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etmyl4T10dE&feature=youtube_gdata

    • Anonymous

       Slick.  Liked the music too. My iPhone told me what it was 🙂

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/7AFDBGKNSOWOUB7TPSABOUHA6U Mark

        I am continually staggered by the fact the moment you say one positive thing about pCARS you get all this “I’ve tried it and the physics are shit”, it is not possible to express admiration and wonderment at the screenshots because some myopic individuals have decreed that due to the fact that SMS were responsible for the SHIFT series they are incapable of ever being able to make a sim again… Henceforth everything to do with CARS gives license to spout this endless diatribe about what does and does not constitute a SIM. For the love of god, give it a rest, 
        the majority of people who signed up to WMD actually read the damn T&C and knew it was actually a beta and therefore would be subject to constant change, so unless you tried the very last weeks Team member+ build then please save us your opinion, there has been so much development between junior build as to make it unrecognisable. Of course this is going to fall on deaf ears, undoubtedly your worldly wisdom of sim tech means you are the official ARBITERS of all things sim. You do not like the game great, good for you, but there are a great number of people who keep stating the physics are shit… Well thankfully it is not a released game then. 

        Personally I love the pictures here, I think the continual addition of new effects to CARS shows great promise, the subtly of the lighting, the reflections, day to night transition, the level of details are breathtaking.

        EDIT: F1Racer_RR was not taking umbrage at your post, this is down to my idiocy while posting!

      • tgn motorsports

         the also made gtr2 which to today is considered a top sim after 10 years.

      • Anonymous

         Not forgetting ISI made the engine for GTR2 & all SimBin titles.

      • pez2k .

        Graphics yes, GTR2 and later use a heavily rewritten physics engine.

  • Anonymous

     Some gorgeous shots there, wow !   Graphics-wise, nothing comes close to this imo.

    • Anonymous

      You always sound like a Vacuum cleaner salesman.

      • Anonymous

        Oh I’m sorry, is my liking the screenshots offending you in some way ? 

        Vacuum cleaner salesmen still exist where you live ?

      • Anonymous

        Nice to see how you change your post as a moderator.

        You’re a moderator from a independet sim blog, stay with that insteat of telling us how great pcars is.

      • Anonymous

        Ok, first, if I want to change my original post because you decided to post a pathetic, childish and petty comment after it, then I will. If you want to criticise something petty then I suggest you look at your own posts.
        Don’t troll on here then expect some sort of justice and honour.

        Second, I can and WILL voice my opinion as much as anyone else, moderator or not.  If I had to make the choice of one or the other I`d choose being able to voice my opinion.  But, I don’t have to make that choice.

        Third, don’t tell me how to operate as a moderator. That is not for you to judge.  Especially coming from someone who’s comments amount to little more than trolling.
        If you want me to be a firm moderator, I can be, but then your posts would be gone already.

        Fourth, I wasn’t telling you how great pCARS is.  I was commenting on how great the screenshots looked.   What’s your problem with that ?    What, others can say it but not me ?
        Heh, in your dream world maybe.

        pCARS isn’t so great for me at the moment for your information.  Graphically it is (as these screenshots show) but I’m still not 100% convinced with the physics.  Some of that is down to how my wheel feels (still wip) and some of it is down to the fact that it’s still pre-alpha and has plenty of time to sort things out.
        If you don’t like pCARS or don’t want to hear how good people think it is, I suggest you avoid pCARS threads instead of coming here and acting like a child.

        BTW, you still didnt answer my question.  What is your problem with me ?   Anything specific or you just don’t like moderators in general ?

      • Anonymous

        Nice to see how you change your post as a moderator.

        You’re a moderator from a independet sim blog, stay with that insteat of telling us how great pcars is.

  • Anonymous

    you tell me this thing which is being developed so fast has all the data from the teams and cars? pCARS will by no means be in the same league as iRacing or rF2 when it comes to realism that’s for sure! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/Siggers Ross Siggers

      Did it not occur to you that SMS might have done field work and gathered data before the whole project went live to the public? And as a matter of fact, they’re still gathering it as they release builds… 

      • Anonymous

        sure but you believe the physics will be as good as iRacing or rF2 only in your dreams!

      • Matt Orr

        There is something that is easily forgotten. Every last car abides by the same exact laws of physics. What really matters is the tires, and in fact it’s probably the only thing that matters at this stage. They do have a decent tire, and always have. They simply pissed it away and buried it 6 ft deep for Shi(f)t.

        IDK. I fired up iRacing tonight, the HPD feels like it’s on rails – not a chance in hell I was going to spin without driving 105%. Fire up pCARS thereafter, the car actually felt alive (R18) – still impossible for me to spin without sheer fail on the right foot. So there goes that difficulty = sim argument, unless iRacing is suddenly an arcade game.

        Easiest to spot difference was the R18 was much heavier, which it is. Otherwise very similar handling. The thing that separates iR’s tires though are the depth – the wear, the heat affecting grip that you can actually feel, particularly when you cook them.

        rF2 physics? It’s a mod platform. 99% of the mods you are playing in rF1 – and when rF2 gets rolling – are nothing more than educated guesses by people who haven’t even seen the cars in the flesh, let alone driven them.

        Every last sim is flawed. Look at iRacing – they change cars every build; were they wrong previously? I remember my precious HPD doing P1 Diesel times around Sebring when it released. rFactor 1/2 is a pile of mod mess, or default content that is meh at best. GTR1 drove radically different than GTR2 – which is correct? It can’t be both, so clearly one must not be a sim?

        It’s a puzzle. Does CARS have some physics goofs – yes, as of now (Such as banging off of curbing), but largely it drives fairly similar compared to similar competition.

      • Anonymous

        pCARS is smart as the devs are listening to the community so they are taking their word for what is real or not so in the end of the day most people will be happy with it because the car feels right. As far as I know the V8SC in iRacing with the NTM is being developed by the input of a real series race winner but how long has the car being out?! I concur with you that iRacing is realsing too many updates to the car handling which tells you they ain’t getting the data right. I remember the Ford GT being stuck to the ground and spinning on it’s own center of gravity. iRacing is most well known for their tracks but cars wise they are not the best out there even with all the data cad whatever they get from manufactures.

      • Matt Orr

         Yep, they sure are smart, because I know what a Radical SR8 truly drives like!

        Anyways, you just praised iRacing’s physics, then proceed to tell me how terrible they are. So which is?

        iRacing does not attempt to “feel” real like pCARS. They take data, and prefer to not fudge the numbers to make it “feel” right, considering you are on a PC, with “no feel” anyways. It will never feel right as it physically cannot.

        IIRC, a lot of the change in the GT was down to Robinson Racing not having the correct numbers for the aero on the front end due to no wind tunnel time. The HPD being mega fast was IIRC due to it being underweight due to a rulebook issue that a user actually brought up.

      • Richard Hessels

        All this effort that iRacing does still does not make it as good as they claim it to be.

        Earnhart JR sayd he would not even leave the pits if his real car would feel like this.
        I rather have a educated guess that feels really good.
        Instead of a Guru telling me this is how it should feel, and than the next update everythings feels different…
        That brings my to the conclusion that “the Guru”was doing marketing bullshit.

      • Anonymous

        I dunno, the ‘pure mathematics, no fudging’ approach seems to be getting them pretty close on the touring cars. Might not be there now, but I feel like they’re getting where they need to be.

        Which ‘guru’ are you talking about?

      • tgn motorsports

         to be honest I don’t think there really listening to there forum board.

        That is a good thing because it’s 90% fanboy’s  from arcade games. Also there is no organized method of gathering information. Being that they built gtr2 and gt legends I believe they know how to make a race game with a level of difficulty and real feel.

        Shift gets to harsh a rap for it’s gamepad player base. Which is true, I ran into a group playing shift on steam they told me they were fast and took the game serious. I went to race with them and they played the game like it was bumper cars.  That is what gives games bad vibes, for me I hope they can shake the Arcade mentality. True sim racers really are minority, they make the big money off the bumper car arcade crowd, so it all seems like a tough balancing act.

        People forget nascar 2003 had a Arcade mod, and it is known as possibly the most hardcore sim race game ever.

        have a great day!

      • Anonymous

        About the educated guesses of rF2 mods. Well that’s pretty much exactly the same as pCARS, Doug was quite active and honest on the forums and was just messing around with numbers to get what they consider to be the right feel. Even putting in stuff that should not work to compensate for it’s tyre model.

        New shots do look nice btw, have they implemented a new form of AA as it looks even cleaner now?

      • Big Ron

         There isn´t any sim out there without messing around with numbers to get the right feeling. All developers adjust there physic engines manually.

      • Anonymous

        True but it still equals an “educated guess”, something that the OP was getting at was wrong with modders in other titles.

      • Big Ron

        The difference between the modders and developers is that developers not just mess around with numbers in some textfiles but also able to adjust the physics code to any changes.

      • Anonymous

        And ideally the big developers have access to the real data on the car from the manufacturer/race team, too. You’re lucky if you can even find a publicly available dyno chart for most race cars.

      • tgn motorsports

         If your going to compare compare to more polished version on isi/gmotor engine in gtr2 or simbin titles.
        Being that I raced 300 or more races in iracing, thousands of races in n4, n2002, n2003 and gpl I can speak on this and say pcars is the real deal. It is in Pre Alpha and not coming out until late 2012 or early 2013. So along way to even get better.

         I will never forget in a indy car practice session I had
        another driver use back of my car as a ramp, He drove over me (like monster truck) then drove a way like nothing happened leaving my car crunched.  So people making comments like iracing is flawless is laughable in to many ways. It is very good but not perfect.

        The F1 77 car drives way better then the lotus in iracing and takes a lot of practice to get used to it.  check out video this guy made, you can see the car is a handful lol.
        http://www.youtube.com/user/myVRaceLog

        have a great day!

      • http://twitter.com/timpiie Timpie Claessens

         You mean iRacing, the game in which the physics change every 3 months to the next real thing?

    • Anonymous

      Why is there always someone in every thread using a comparison to try and bring down the title in question ?

      Thankfully your post is pure presumption and opinion.

      • Big Ron

        He’s just jealous because his two favorite games get a serious competitor.

      • Anonymous

        That would be a shame.
        I’d rather go for choice than criticise the competition.  For me I’ll get usage and fun from iRacing, rF2 and pCARS.  I get to enjoy all three for different reasons.  Don’t see the need to limit my options unless the options are seriously lacking. I don’t think any of these 3 titles are.

        pCARS, rF2, GTR3, AC, iRacing…  bring ’em all on !  Sim-racing never had it so good 🙂

  • http://www.facebook.com/jcruze88 Justin ForzaBarça Cruze

    Lies, those are photos!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=557052351 Damon Clewlow

    Ridiculously pretty..

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1064924995 Gabriele Bonora

    Visually is a good level. Modeling is wonderful, some cars are fantastic.
    Why a good level?
    Actually are too polished, i mean, cars.
    Some dirt, smoke, dust, oil, rubber pickup and scratches and will be difficult to spot the difference with reality. 😀
    The Palmer in the two road stages is something wonderful. (i’m a team member).
     

    • Big Ron

       dirt buildup is already there and will get an advanced system in future. Also they are rendering out ambient occlusion for all cars now which will reduce the reflection in shadowed areas.

      • Anonymous

         That’s the only thing with the cars right now.  They are a bit over-reflective.  That’s some serious polish being used 🙂    It needs to be toned down a little or blurred just a touch.

  • Anonymous

    After having read through the inevitable sim vs sim garb attached to this post all I really have to say is I just want it to feel real to me, or somewhat close to real. Chances are I will never lap Catalunya in an F1 car, therefore I want a sim to feel the way I would expect it to. I want to feel the car slide out in a four wheel drift as the tires get hot and I push my pace. I want the rears to brake loose upon hard corner exit yet allow me to correct before the car is in the grass, etc. You can try and convince me all you want that “well these are real world physics from Jo Blow over at so-and-so.” Frankly I don’t care. We’ve all (I assume) driven street cars faster than we should have and have gained enough feel to have some expectation of what a car at 10/10ths might feel like. As long as I’m getting a good degree of feedback through the wheel (since there’s no Gload in a SIM) I can adjust what I’m doing to what I feel. Besides, since these are games there are many things beyond physics and feel that create the sense of immersion.

    Now contrary to my own post I must say this. I see several knocks below on rFactor and its developer adjusted physics vs iRacing’s “real world data.” As far as I know every F1 team actually utilizing a simulator as a means of training uses rFactor Pro. What I’m saying is that I’m not sure any of us knows for sure the full depth to which any mod or sim may be developed unless we develop it ourselves.

    Like I’ve said before-I’ll run every sim or semi sim I can get my hands on. Maybe one for a certain reason or car, and another sim for some other reason. But if it’s something I’ve discovered here on VirtualR, chances are it’s at least worth checking out. If I don’t like it I won’t run it, but I’m not going to come here or anywhere else and bash it because I don’t appreciate a fanboi of another sim coming here or anywhere else and bashing something I like. To each his own.

  • Eric Zehnder

    I’m loving the lighting developments. Yes you can get a lens flare and bloom but you can turn it off. In either case it looks very realistic. Sunset drives on the California Highway or Azure Coast tracks is really amazing.

    Realistic physics plus amazing locations is why I’m loving this title and looking forward to the needed tweaks for less-developed cars.

    If you want a great demo car, go for the Caterham!

  • 1337 1337

    Ive tried CARS… and the feelking i got… well lets just say my HOTAS cougar with 5mm center play has more “feeeeeeel” to it..

    The “game” looks great.. But it just drives…
    I belive cars is a great project, but the investors.. mine got…

    To compare this to RF2 is sad

    rf2 gives you chills down your spine… you remember things you have done in your own car (ive owned MK3 supra / Rx7 FB / CAMARO z28)

    while cars gives you great background pictures.

    just ignoring the fact that investors are in SMS atm, we can assume since we “players” invested in this game, that some they we can throw the game status away and call this a sim..

    AND then we can compare it to RF2

    and come on Iracing
    you iracing fansbois should read
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

    • Anonymous

       Yes sure, and I own a Toyota Picnic!

      • 1337 1337

         Hail to you champion!

      • Eric Zehnder

         I totally believe that you’ve owned those cars assuming the written portion of the driving exam was paid for in advance…

        Calling shenanigans on this ‘expert’.

    • Ricoo

       If you find the right FFB set-up for your wheel, the feel is great.

      • Anonymous

        I agree. Taking a bit of time to adjust the FFB and the steering and then making a few changes to the set up (for me it means making the steering softer by at least 3 clicks) changes the driving dramatically. The only issue is that you have to do it for every car since what works for the Audi won’t work for another car. But once you get used to it it doesn’t take that long.

      • Nathan Robinson

        I agree there. At first I couldn’t be bothered with it but I really wanted to drive the formula A car without it being twitchy so I caved in and what a difference. I run a fanatec gt3rs on 540 and then run the steering ratio around 3/4 to the right, (not sure the number) and it is so much easier to drive. A lot of that knife edge wobble at center position is gone now too which is nice.

      • Anonymous

         Nathan, I managed to get rid of a lot of that twitchyness by altering 2 things.
        Changed the steering sensitivity in-game from 50 down to 40, then, most crucially, Set the ‘LIN’ setting on the wheel to ‘020’.
        I run at 360 degrees ratio too btw.   And when I config the wheel in-game and it tells me to turn the wheel to 90′  for some reason it calculates something like 420′ wheel setup.   So i just keep turning it until it does say ‘360’.
        Feels much better now.  Not quite perfect with the Atom, but the other cars are finally driveable and dont twitch.
        You can fiddle with those two settings to suit of course.

      • tgn motorsports

          people set there wheels to 900 then cry its un-driveable.  then when
        you tell them to move it to 200 or 300 they’re like why would i do
        that.  sigh.

    • Anonymous

      Hooray, a new Virtualr troll…

      And that has to be the most meaningless use of the term ‘vaporware’ ever. Might be more applicable to LFS S3, if anything.

      • Eric Zehnder

         I didn’t even see the vaporware comment! lol

        Vaporware is what Duke Nukem was for almost 10 years. Vaporware is what failed, never seen new gaming consoles are. Vaporware is most certainly not the most accessible and playable racing sim being developed among the group (rF2, AC, GTR3, pCARS)!

  • Anonymous

    Top notch !

  • Guilherme Cramer

    I’d like to see a graphics settings guide, or users posting their setup along with their shots. I want to emulate certain looks I see here. My game currently looks like the 9th shot.

  • Rolands Svetins

    HAHA, in shot 43. How is it possible to see all 3 cars in focus if lense is focused on the closest car, but we still see both 2 cars in background even if they are driving in opposite direction! 

  • Joeri Blootacker

    Lol… all those physics vs graphics talk etc…
    not a single pc game can replicate true physics..they are all just a programmed way to try to make it feel right, but they will not come close yet in the near future, it simply costs too much calculation power !

    tell me this : does ANY sim to date calculate the coanda effect perhaps ? (
    and there are many other physical laws that most likely won’t be taken into account.
    but they all have a minor or even major effect on car behaviour !

    rest my case.
    🙂

    all sim game efforts are good to be honest 🙂 my 2 cents.
    just enjoy them !

    • Noel Hibbard

      Sure sims will never feel real due to the lack of physical gforce. But it isn’t because of the cost of CPU time. I wish more people would look at their CPU usage when running sims before posting that the problem is the cost of CPU time. Most sims run around %20 on my system.

      • Joeri Blootacker

        Hi Noel,

        yes, you are partially correct.
        but i’m not talking about gforces only. (gforces are quite easy to calculate in fact)

        but the more complex forces (like the Coanda effect i’m mentioning) are complex to calculate.
        making a physical model that is close to the theoretical perfection would require a super computer, trust me 😉

        Aero effects (and others as well off course) vary so much.
        one example : When you turn the wheel, your wheels have a different position (not in a straight line) so the WIND produced by the moving car, influences on other parts of the car, and this in relation to the wind direction at that time. not sure if this is being taken into account in a game.

        Drag to name another one..
        what about the air displacement of a car….
        and there are so many others.

        and these are only the aero things. what about the weight shift of the fluids (fuel) while going around a corner.

        in rain conditions, cars can become 4 to 5 kilo heavier due to water pickup. and this is not spreaded equally 🙂  and to make it worse, the earo effects of the car change completely due to the surface of the car being compromised by rain drops.

        all marginal, but count them all up and you know any game is far off the real deal 😉

        Look at the weather system computers that calculate the weather predictions…..
        calculating the clouds only doesn’t require much CPU, but the full weather requires super computers. 🙂

        as it is right now, YES games depend more on the GPU than the CPU. you are correct to that matter. but thats not because physics calculations.

        i just think it is pointless to think any game is a true reproduction of real life. 🙂

        i’m not a fanboy for any kind of game. just want to point out, that these physics discussions are a bit meaningless 🙂

        i own all recent (and old) racing sims(games) and i think they all deserve their place 🙂

      • Noel Hibbard

        When I was said gforces are missing, I was referring to physical forces on your body. Sure it is easy to calculate, but not easy to deliver. Most motion cockpits are limited to one G. And they are not at all convincing.

        I see your point about all these elements that aren’t calculated. Many of these things could be added though, even with our current CPUs. But people make it sound like rFactor1 had CPUs pegged which is far from the truth.

        I don’t think arguing physics in current sims is pointless though. If a sim can’t even get the basics right then something is really wrong. pCARS feels totally disconnected if you ask me. It looks amazing, but it feels like it drives you rather than you driving it.

      • Joeri Blootacker

        Sorry 🙂 i understood that point wrong 🙂 hehe 🙂

      • Anonymous

        I agree

    • Anonymous

      I agree.   Even McLaren don’t have a satisfactory tyre model.  

      When Dave Kaemmer was doing the new tyre model for iRacing he was using a program which aimed at replicating simplified physics model of tyre, deformation, etc.   That had to run offline, as realtime was impossible – and it was a simplified model of *just* a single tyre.   But modelling is different to an exact replication of reality. Modelling implies simplification, doesn’t it?    I’d argue it will always be impossible to perfectly replicate any aspect of physical reality inside a computer, without building a complete model of the universe.  For one thing, one would presumably need replicate quantum effects and structure at atomic level to properly represent macro objects, and that would require unifying quantum theory and relativity, a theory of quantum gravity etc.   And as the uncertainty principle says we can’t know position and momentum of any particle, how could it be perfectly replicated?   

  • Noel Hibbard

    I would be happy if the devs would stop making releases until they can make the wheels turn when I turn my wheel. That would probably help just a tad. 🙂

    • Eric Zehnder

       I check all the build release threads and nobody has ever said that the car just goes straight despite their wheel input. Perhaps you didn’t plug-in that wheel of yours?

      In any case, log a bug with the appropriate, needed information if you are experiencing issues. Bugs aren’t fixed if they aren’t known and I’m certainly not having the problem you mention.

      • Noel Hibbard

        Hahaha.. funny. I am talking about lag. I have already reported it. Along with everyone else I am sure. It has been reported from the very beginning. All the way back to the first release of Shift1. If it hasn’t been fixed years later then I suspect it never will be.

      • Anonymous

        still an issue for me also, i notice when i use a keyboard i get no lag….but who the heck wants to use a keyboard! I would report it again but theres no point because they (should) already know about this problem!

      • Eric Zehnder

        Hardware fixes require testing and verification. This has been fixed for Logitech owners for a while and Fanatec owners recently got their fix. If you are using one of these and still experience issues you should log a bug report to get it fixed. They will contact you to test once fixed.

        If you are using a more off-brand wheel I would also recommend you log a bug report.

      • Anonymous

        I’m using a DFGT which is pretty standard, il send them a message to see if they can help me out then if not il wait until completion to judge but still they have tried very hard to sort this and its still not quite right which makes you wonder,  its loads better than the first build though, maybe its because I’m experiencing lower frame rate?? that could affect it right?

      • tgn motorsports

         I USE dfgt and no lag

      • Big Ron

         Wow, ignoring a game just because of visual lag in a pre-alpha state is very childish.

      • Noel Hibbard

        I am not ignoring the sim. If I was, then I wouldn’t be aware of the bugs that plague it. It isn’t just visual. What is childish is not recognizing there is lag between what your hands are doing and what the car is doing. It is a big issue. But I don’t blame some people for not noticing the lag. I can’t tell you how many people run VSync on sims and will tell you they don’t have lag.
        Also, I would hardly call it pre-alpha. It is a continuation of an engine that has already been released and sold in two titles (all with the same lag).

      • Big Ron

        You are wrong. At first there is a difference between recognizing a bug in a game and to harp on it. The visual and “physicsal lag” (if there is any) is very different from system to system. Some have it, some not. I have it to to a small amount, but I don´t care because I can drive nevertheless and it isn´t that strong that it makes the game undrivable. And about the engine and the state of the game: you are wrong. The base was the Madness Engine of Shift, yes. But it has reworked completely in graphics, physics and sounds and a lot of new features will be included which were not part of the engine before. Every game has the same states and it does not matter what kind of engine or their development status is used for a the game since you need to optimize codes, include contents and develop the storyline/ modes or whatever. Even a Shift 2 was in a pre-alpha state even if it had a prequel. pCARS is for sure a pre-alpha state since its new to 80% and has nothing to do with SHIFT.

      • Noel Hibbard

        I am wrong about what? Hahaha. There is lag. It is a fact. Just because everyone can’t “feel” it (trust me it is there) doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem/bug. And how can you say I am wrong that pCARS isn’t a continuation of the engine that was in Shift yet go on to say that it is a continuation of the engine from Shift. You lost me. Hahaha. Then your justifying that pCARS is pre-alpha by saying that even Shift2 was pre-alpha. I am sorry, but pCARS does have a lot to do with Shift. Stop drinking the Koolaid. No dev team (I am a developer BTW) is going to just ditch an engine completely. Just like ISI has been evolving their engine for many many years. Only difference is ISI doesn’t have a bad image to try to disassociate from. SMS is trying to leave the bad image they got with Shift, of course they are going to try to brain wash people into feeling like it is a whole new project.

        The facts are, it looks amazing. Best looking sim (on any platform) to date hands down. I praise SMS for ditching the arcade look. The physics is another story. It feels totally disconnected. Probably due mostly to the lag. It is possible that the physics engine is top notch. But if inputs are lagged like they are you can’t get a true feel for it. I will continue to download builds every few weeks in hopes that they solve the lag.

        rFactor had the same disconnected feeling on their first public build but that was taken seriously and the next build solved the performance/lag problems.

        I just can’t take pCARS serious yet. It took several months to disable gamepad detection. If you have a more elaborate setup with button boxes, load cell pedals mixed with say a G27 it would freak out and treat your wheel as a gamepad. Serious sim racers are going to have complex setups. They should have jumped on that bug immediately. That bug was confirmed in the first few weeks of pCARS but wasn’t fixed for several months. It was totally unplayable on my system because of that. Personally, if they are as sim oriented as they try to come off, they should have ripped gamepad detection out before the first public build was even released. Ian even admitted it should have been removed up front. But even then it wasn’t.

      • Eric Zehnder

         Visual input lag has been fixed for several weeks now and I haven’t seen anyone mention still having it happen in a while. If you are having issues still you need to LOG A BUG REPORT rather than bitching about it here in order to get it fixed.

        My rig isn’t the best and I get below 30FPS average. I have no noticeable lag from 25-30FPS and only a tiny bit of visual lag below 25FPS which is to be expected, honestly. Most people still experiencing visual input lag is due to bad/old drivers or simply slow systems.

      • Noel Hibbard

        The last I tried was 169. Mainly because so many people reported a drastic “improvement” in lag. I love the statements people make, “Lag is almost completely gone now”. Anyways I still saw lag on my system. I am running an i5-2500K with an HD6770 and 16GB of memory. My GPU is sort of a weak link I suppose. I will give the latest build a shot but I will not hold my breath. I feel like there are reports on every build of “lag is almost completely gone” but it is still there. I want zero lag and no that isn’t too much to ask for. No other sims have lag as long as VSync is off.

      • Ricoo

         0 lag is impossible. The best you can have is the refresh rate of your monitor.

      • Big Ron

         I didn´t say that you are wrong with visual input lag, otherwise I´wouldn´t say I have it also in a small amount.

        But the rest of your arguments is just rediculous. Get knowledge about game development and then try again.

      • Noel Hibbard

        Okay so you have called me childish, wrong, ridiculous and now accusing me (a developer) about not understanding development.

        I will go back to my original statement which is very valid (even confirmed by you):
        “I would be happy if the devs would stop making releases until they can make the wheels turn when I turn my wheel. That would probably help just a tad. :)”

      • Big Ron

        I didn´t call you ridiculous but your argumentation. Stop turning my comments as it fits to you.

        And we all would be happy to not see you arguing about pCARS since everything you have to do is telling the devs how they should handle their development and the way to release builds.

        Go and play rF or iRacing or whatever you play.

      • Noel Hibbard

        Um.. I wasn’t arguing. I simply pointed out that is has lag. You were the one that attacked me saying I was childish for pointing out a fact. Then you go on to tell me I know nothing about game dev even though you have no clue what I do for a living. But you are right, no one cares to see us go back and forth with you trying to convince me that lag is acceptable.

      • Big Ron

        I don´t try to convince you that a visual lag is no problem or uninteresting. But compared to you I know how the development in dvided (I seem to read the forum instead of you) and have patience to wait till it gets fixed since they have lists of priorities in development and they are following those lists.
        You don´t need to wonder about such reaction since you pretend the visual lag as if it´s a world apocalypse and makes driving impossible. And yes, I called you childish, but not for pointing out a fact but just for exaggerating the influence of a, in my opinion, small problem.

      • Noel Hibbard

        I will say it again. It isn’t just visual. If it was then you are right, not a big deal. If your car didn’t react to inputs until 100ms later, wouldn’t you consider that a flaw worth harping on? But then again there are tons of people that have no problem with DBW on their cars, so some people seem to not have a problem with lag even in real life. Hahaha.

      • Big Ron

         Sorry, but I have no physical lag in the game and I´ve never heard of it, it´s just visual and very small.

      • Noel Hibbard

        Never heard of it?

        “input lag”

      • Ricoo

        All racing games have visual lag.

        For a 60 Hz LCD it’s impossible to have a visual lag always under 15 ms, even if input is taken into account in next refreshed image with a very fast PC.

        Most racing game have a visual lag about 80 ms and that’s only 5 frames for a 60 Hz monitor.

        Human eye can notice change about 1/24 s or about 40 ms.

        The faster your system is the less input lag you will get until you reach the refresh rate of your monitor.

        I can’t notice a visual lag in pCARS with my Core2duo E7200 @3.8 GHz and my GTX275.

      • Noel Hibbard

        16.6ms (time between 1 frame at 60hz) is a long way away from the kind of lag pCARS has. Here is a video a shot demonstrating input lag introduced by VSync in rFactor. VSync is common knowledge in FPS games but seems to get blown off in sims but it is a big problem. You can clearly see the lag in this video when VSync is on. pCARS has way more lag then this though. What Big Ron is missing is that it isn’t just the animated wheel that is lagged. It is the whole scene. If you are reacting to visuals that are off 100ms your driving is going to be compromised.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjHqXKqeDgE 

      • Big Ron

        It´s a known issue, that VSync creates visual lag. So turn it off and it should be fine.

      • Noel Hibbard

        It is off.

      • Big Ron

         You shouldn´t wonder about anythink. When I am right you have a Momo and it doesn´t count to the wheels with most attention by devs, yet.

      • Noel Hibbard

        It’s a G27 with a 330mm Momo MOD78 mounted to it.

      • tgn motorsports

        nice card board cut out track marshal… vintage 1999

      • Noel Hibbard

        I know.. it looks sooo gay and totally messes up the physics engine. Duh.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, I dunno.  I keep trying it, but the physics and FFB really aren’t doing it for me.  The thing is, the FFB was fine with the second release, but ever since they implemented their new system, it’s just not right.  I can make it *drivable* with lots and lots of fiddling with settings, but it doesn’t communicate much.  Hopefully they will sort this out eventually.  These days, FFB is something that should just work.  You set your strength, use the standard control panel settings, and that’s it.

    FFB aside, the input also feels sloppy. Despite having deadzone set to zero, there is still a very obvious deadzone in the steering (I can even see it in the graphical wheel, it snaps to center when I get within a few degrees.  There is almost no sense of weight transfer in any of the cars and they seem to have too much grip with turn in response (but a reasonable amount everywhere else).

    I keep hoping something is just configured wrong, but that seems less and less likely. I’ve carefully wiped everything and done a clean install, and my framerate is perfect, I’ve tried countless setting combinations (and the usual “correct” settings, 100/0/0, linear input, are an oscillating, clipping mess on my G27).  It’s a shame I can’t try it on someone elses system who claims to like it, because it’s definitely no good on mine. 

    • Anonymous

      Use 100% speedsensivity for the G27, try it.

      • Anonymous

         Thanks for the advice.  I’ve tried that and it didn’t really help anything (though higher settings do relieve the sloppiness to a degree).  It isn’t really drivability that is the issue (with a bunch of tweaking).

      • Anonymous

        I found 100% damping did it for me?! For the weeks I couldn’t drive it. But now it’s as good as any I’v felt!  G25

    • Anonymous

      I just spent part of last night and this morning look for a better feel myself. There is an in depth discussion on the topic at the WMD forums under “logitech driver center spring settings”, but ulitmately most are running what the developers programmed the FFB system around. There is a post on that as well but it goes something like this:
      In your GLOBAL settings in the logi profiler set the:

      Overall effects to 100-125. Mine is at 125
      Spring effect-0
      Damper effect-0
      Center spring UNCHECKED
      Degrees of rotation-900
      Allow game to adjust settings-checked
      In game I use 81% Strength in the FFB setting.
      0% Speed sensitivity

      With these settings on my G25 I found a night and day difference. Hope they help!

    • Anonymous

      There’s a pretty in depth look at FFB, and specifically center spring input that sounds similar to your issue. You may have already read it but if you search “Logitech driver center spring setting” over at the WMD forums it might help.
      I’m using the devs settings with 125% overall and center spring unchecked with “allow game to adjust settings” checked and it’s been night and day for me.
      Good luck!
      Oh, and I use 0% speed sensitivity and 0% damping as well

    • Anonymous

       After putting a lot of effort into a methodical approach, the best I could come up with was standard Logitech CP settings; using the generic wheel profile in CARS (removes the hard-coded, non-zero deadzone); Strength-55; Sensitivity-50;  Speed Sensitive-0; Damping-0; and masking everything but “wheel force” in the F1 menu.

      I would consider the results acceptable, but certainly not good compared to the competition. With more work, I’m sure they can sort things out in future versions.

      • Eric Zehnder

        For G27’s especially there’s this “10% Fix” that is making its rounds in the forums. Basically you cut the two main FFB settings in the F1 menu by around 10-20% what they started. For instance 0.9 becomes somewhere around .09 to .18. Up the strength in-game to compensate for the loss of strength caused by this and enjoy.

        I’ve found a MASSIVE difference in feel. Default right now isn’t nearly as communicative as it should be and you generally just get a lot of weight but little traction information, none progressive.

        With this fix (which is being investigated to become the norm, among other work), you’ll find that production cars which gain and lose grip progressively through fast corners dependent on steering input you’ll feel the grip progressively as well. When trail/corner braking leads to lock up you’ll feel all of it.

        Try Azure Coast with Caterham or Ariel Atom V8.

        Note: This has to be set each time you reload a level. It has the Dev’s ear though so it should lead to big changes in the defaults.

Follow VirtualR: