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Game Stock Car Extreme’s Tire Model Explained

Reiza Studios’ physics expert Niels Heusinkveld has shared a very interesting video, explaining the studio’s tire model inner workings.

Reiza Studios’ physics expert Niels Heusinkveld has shared a very interesting video, explaining the studio’s tire model inner workings.

The 16-minute video below share plenty of details on the tire model that powers the studio’s Game Stock Car Extreme and Formula Truck titles, both of which are based on ISI’s gMotor 2 engine.

  • noroardanto

    This video only deepened my respect to the teams behind any sim game engines and those who can actually use it to the max like Niels.

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  • David Hughes

    Fascinating, thanks. It seems infinitely complex which is impressive in a way, but with real data so hard to come by/unreliable it would seem to leave an awful lot (infinity minus a few variables) to subjectivity. I’d be interested to know if a ‘physical tire model’ reduces the amount of subjectivity involved.

    • gimmelbop

      Which kinda begs the question – how realistic are mods?

      • Pvt Stash

        A good question. Realism is a funny thing and subject to perception, what I think feels real might feel like total rubbish to you. Added to that is the fact that very few of us have much, or any, real racing experience. Makes it hard to say this is close or this is crap. I think we’re lucky to have people like Niels doing this kind of work for us, takes a bit of the guess-work out of it for us. Just my opinion so probably worth less than the keyboard it was typed on. 🙂

      • GamerMuscle

        I think there is such a thing as “generally realistic” and “Generally unrealistic” in reality anyone on a home setup is looking for something generally realistic in that they don’t need something that lines up 1-1 with a specific car to then go out and drive that real car with the expectation it will line up with the simulator.

        So long as a simulated car in a home simulator generally moves around as a real car would then I think that would suffice for the vast majority of people.

        Given that most people are playing driving simulators with DFGT/G27/911 wheel then the largest amount of realism would likely come from an upgrade to there hardware than a mod or software being particularly acuret.

      • Pvt Stash

        Valid points there and well put to. This sim world is a funny little thing at times, nice to have a quality discussion with someone. Not being argumentative here so please don’t take offence. 🙂 I still think the whole perception thing makes a difference, peoples tastes and opinions vary so widely.

        Now I agree totally that there is an acceptable ” generally realistic ” as you pointed out. However, is my ” generally realistic ” the same as yours? From reading your posts etc I would say there wouldn’t be a lot of difference.

        Does this place us in the minority or with the majority? It’s fun playing this game, you get to learn a lot about yourself and others. Your last point is very valid, it’s been my perception that the talented people get snapped up quick. Makes sense to me from a developer standpoint, grab the good ones when you see them.

        This is a great time to be a sim-racer, software and hardware developing nicely. Plenty of talented people around making us cool stuff to play with. Cheers and happy racing to all. 🙂

      • Fabio Pittol

        I guess the problem lies in the amount of variables related to the experience.

        Anyone who have watched/read anything about how our brain puts information together (i.e.: NatGeo’s Brain Games) will know how tiny variations on you experience can change a lot your understanding of the situation.

        As simracers we have different hardware, varying from processing power, to field of view, input lag, sound depth/quality, steering wheel forces and accuracy, pedals fell and accuracy, also we don’t fell G-forces, we generally don’t see in 3D etc.

        If you account all that, the fact that most of us never drove any of these cars in race conditions, and consider how tire data has a whole of prediction (well, just look at Pirelli and F1) and secrecy, we come to a point it really ends up as being “YOUR expectations of what is realistic”. Which is kinda sad, isn’t it? lol

        Of course it isn’t totally subjective, that’s not what I’m saying. It’s pretty obvious that sims like rF2, AC, iRacing, R3E etc. are closer to reality than GT or Forza. I was just making a point based on what GamerMuscle said about “Generally realistic”, which I agree.

      • GamerMuscle

        Yep different people are also looking to or enjoy different aspects of simulators, for me I’m most concerned about the basic drivablity of a car and its handling on the limit, some would totaly compromise that in favor of the car having more details such as better transmission simulation, or more realistic response to car setup changes.

        As I said I also feel unless you have a servo wheel and a very specifically set up rig the hardware side of things is going to negate the end result of the drive being particularly realistic and of course even with the absolute best hardware simulators still don’t really capture the raw essence of real driving, they just allow drivers to experience certain components or train certain skills that relate to real world driving.

  • Alexandre Martini

    nice… btw, “excel non-commercial only” 😛

    • Trimaz

      He could be using the spreadsheet from his home computer.

      • Alexandre Martini

        still commercial use, dude.

      • Trimaz

        We will leave that for Microsoft’s lawyers to worry about.

  • Marc Collins

    Goal-driven model results in at least somewhat real-feeling cars every time, even though they may not be pin-point accurate. iRacing spent years chasing their tails by trying to start with a pin-point accurate total tire model that unfortunately can feel like crap if one small parameter is not good or one small element in the model is not interacting with the others correctly.

    Is iRacing’s now better…probably for most cars. But this approach is better unless you have the time, resources and patience to wait four or five years to perfect the integrated model.

    Very interesting and glad they shared it.

    • David Hughes

      I don’t agree about iRacing’s being ‘better’ at all – in terms of feel (realism and enjoyability) anyway. Respect to DK for trying the approach he did though. It feels to me very much like he has modified it heavily towards a goal-driven model just to get the thing usable while he continues to work on his ‘physical’ tyre model (though that is purely speculation on my behalf).

  • RapidRefund

    Thanks Niels for the Physics lesson I enjoyed it

  • The Associat0r

    Here’s a quote from Renato Simioni’s comment.

    “””As exemplified in the video, the variables are numerous – a physical tyre model is more complex than a Pacejka-based model to the extent it simulates actual tyre constructions and dynamics (with the downturn of being relatively inflexible to address potential innacuracies), whereas a Pacejka model allows the developer to easily manipulate the data and thus the net result.

    But not all physical or Pacejka models are the same – some might not be as complex in terms of how many variables are simulated or how they interact, let alone be fed with accurate data (which happens to be extremely rare) – hence the very different results accross different racing games, many of which aren´t even trying that hard to be accurate…

    Even within the constraints of the same physics engine, the small differences in curve shapes or interactions Niels demonstrate (which basically represent minor differences in data input – and when I say minor it could be as little as .000000000001) have a significant impact in the driving experience. Here is where experience & consistency in the methodology, plus a few hundred hours polishing rough edges can make the difference between a pro-level simulator, and your average thrown-together mod :)”””

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