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F1 2012 – Interviews & No Dedicated Server

Two interviews reveal first details on Codemasters’ F1 2012 an disappointing news for online racers.

It’s still a while until we can expect first preview footage of F1 2012, Codemasters’ third Formula One title for the PC, Xbox 360 & Playstation 3.

In the meantime, there are some interesting interviews with Creative Director Steven to give us a glimpse of what to expect. The first includes a very interesting paragraph on the physics side as Hood reveals that F1 2011’s development was ended without a dedicated physics programmer!

Well, we closed 11 out without a physics programmer, which is a bit of a problem on a racing game! We’ve got a really strong guy now who’s looking into that. He’s made some significant changes, along with some other programmers, to the physics engine. The nitty gritty of it is that we’ve changed the way the aero is working, we’ve changed the way the suspension is working – and the suspension and tyres are critical to feel of the car. Previously you might have been bouncing over the kerbs or driving along and the tyres weren’t always in contact with the ground, they didn’t come back down quick enough. But now when you update the suspension, it sounds a bit weird, but it’s almost more compliant. The wheels are in contact with the ground a lot more and you suddenly get a lot more feedback. They’re doing the right things, which means when it gets sent off to other departments, like the audio team, they’re getting the correct inputs to their system. When you start to slide we can play the audio at the right point and you think, “Ah, I’m pushing the envelope here now”. Previously, it wouldn’t [work like that], they’d get these weird numbers and go,”When do we start putting in the screeching noise?”

If you’re getting fundamental problems like that… F1 is on the edge of performance, so these things can become very apparent to the user, because you’re doing such high speeds. Now it changes so that the car just feels… I wouldn’t say more alive, because that makes it sound skittish, but more in contact with the ground. You are driving a car now, it’s really on the road.

Full interview here.

A second interview reveals more of the new physics approach as the developers are trying to strike a balance between F1 2010 and F1 2011, it also mentions the new user interface as Codemasters is ditching the Formula One paddock setting as the players’ base for the new title.

“It’s massively important for a game like this,” says Hood of the new front-end. “It’s a big sport with lots of money, and for me delivering a premium feel is really important. We’re trying something a little different this time where we focus on the cars rather than drivers. Lots of sports games from EA have a very sexy UI in my mind – though they’re not brilliant to navigate always – but there’s a certain level and standard they’ve achieved, and I don’t think Codemasters has achieved it thus far.”

Full interview here.

While the physics side of things and other aspects look like they will be much improved, there’s also bad news in store for potential buyers, especially those looking to race on-line.

On Twitter, Steven Hood confirmed that F1 2012 will not offer a dedicated server functionality for PC-based online racing.

Twitter Screenshot via Racedepartment

  • yorch sincla

    No surprise. Like me not buying 2011-2012-2013…F1 official game…

  • Guilherme Cramer

    Screw you, Stephen Hood. ”
    Well, we closed 11 out without a physics programmer, which is a bit of a problem on a racing game! “

  • Wesley M

    The same bogus all over again, the only newly added part is that with 11 they didnt have a psychics programmer.

    Well it is the same bogus here too, gonna download the game once again and not even think about buying it. 

    • Alex White

      You’re so tough!  Stealing those games like a really scary man!

      • Wesley M

        Hmm seems like you dont get the point do you? 

        Codies does nothing more than marketing and bogus how much better their game will be compared to last one. And when they deliver it, nothing better is actually noticed, same crappy physics, same bugs, same crappy sounds and so fort. And then you think it is worth to pay 45 euro’s for that? No way. Nothing about being tough here it is about the same bullshit over and over again, and if you do not see it you either must be blind or work for Codies.

        Oh yes forgot to mention this; Their support for games is also incredible! You might be lucky you get one patch. Also talking bad about the game on their forums and they will ban you for that. Great deveopper huh? 

        Now give me a reason why I should even think of buying f1 2012 because I cant think of any.

      • Mario Simoes

         45 in your country but in my is 70 euros…and is true wat you say

    • Anonymous

      If its bogus, why even play it? There are plenty of mods for games you can play.

      • Wesley M

        Yeah thats why I didnt bother to play F1 2011 more than 1 hour

  • Anonymous

    Wesley, they didn’t FINISH the game with a physics programmer, they did start with one.

    And for those who aren’t going to read it, F1 2012 is going to be more “arcady” than 2011.

    • Anonymous

      Thats an assumption by you, I could just as easily assume that even after a number of F1 games that they still hadn’t a physics programmer hired from the start of the first game till the end of the 2011 game. If you look at the interview he never states that a physic’s programmer left the company which makes my take on the statement more a more realistic assumption.

      Any good interviewer would have just gone after that statement 

      “Hold up there, this is a game that is officially licensed and claims to portray one of the most  sophisticated motor-sports in the world and ye didn’t have a physic programmer.
      When exactly did he leave and how did ye cope when he left ?”

      • Anonymous

        Of couse it is, just like you’re assuming. And generally journalists wouldn’t ask a question like that. What they mean by “physics programer” is fairly ambiguous as well. 

      • Anonymous

        A good journalist would ask a question like that.

        Whats the point of journalism if not to get to the heart of the story. Physics and F1 surely go hand in hand.

        The interview reads like one where they came to the site with a list of Q and A’s and said you can post this on your site and get more traffic and we will get some free advertising.

        It seems to have become the norm in gaming journalism if you judge the content of most articles. One of the most indicative ways of seeing this is reviews that make very if any mention of bugs in games till they might do a small if any article months later when there is no more advertising revenue coming from game.

      • Anonymous

        My comment was more about tone. I also believe its more about keeping a career going and getting exclusives that you don’t attempt to piss off people when they allow you an early interview. You are probably correct, it was just a Q and A, probably done over the phone, and took them only a few minutes to finish. This isn’t investigative journalism, which I believe is what you want. 

  • John G. Hill

    I raced in a league that only ran F1 2010, so I was hoping for the best when F1 2011 came out.   When I realized that other racers could push you off the road without losing their wing, and you could still cut corners, with no ill effects from running over huge patches of grass, I thought no thanks, and quit the F1 2011 game after one practice session.

    • Anonymous

      11’s online was just crap.

    • Mario Simoes

       true true

  • Anonymous

    I thought F1 2011 was brilliant and a real blast to play, especially on my laptop with a gamepad.  When I’m at home with my full setup (CSR Elite, TH8RS, CS pedals), it’s obviously not 100% realistic, but the laptimes are spot-on, the relative performance of the cars is likewise finely judged and let’s not forget that, at any given time, there are maybe 50 people on the planet who could actually drive an F1 car competitively.

    A very realistic simulator would be incredibly frustrating to the other 7,036,760,843 people 😉

    • gt3rsr

       I think it’s impossible to say how many people there are who could drive an F1 car competitively… Maybe thousands, maybe even more – they just never get an opportunity.

      • Anonymous

        I disagree.  People don’t get an opportunity because they don’t deserve one.  I hear this sort of comment all the time from sim-racers. 

        Jeff Gordon, who was at the pinnacle of NASCAR at the time (2004), was unable to physically handle the Williams-BMW of Juan Pablo Montoya.  He himself stated it was something just beyond his ability. Look at Michael Andretti in 1993 – CART world champion and he couldn’t even make it through the season with McLaren.  Alex Zanardi –  another no-hoper who was a CART champ.The point is – even people at the very sharp end of motorsports, who have achieved a great deal and are in the top 0.1% of all racing drivers –  have historically struggled in F1.  The idea that any of us desk warriors could get the car around the track in a halfway competitive fashion is amusing, but nothing more.  Sorry.

      • Anonymous

         On the flip side of that look how Montoya has done in NASCAR. Or how Kimi Raikkonen did, or  Narain Karthikeyan.   Just because F1 gives certain people this stigma that “we are so much better than everyone else on the planet” doesn’t mean that they are. There are different disciplines in motorsport. Now let’s see how well Rubens does in Indy. According to what you wrote he should be able to go out and dominate since he is essentially “good enough” to drive in F1.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah this is unfortunately the truth many of us dont want to hear.. yet there is one even bigger proof that VERY few people on the planet can race the fastest cars: when the worlds best known alien of simracing Huttu got opportunity to drive a real formula mazda (which is nothing compared to F1), he did a decent lap or two (read: 2-4 secs from records, definitely not like 0.2) but after few laps he was so tired and nauseous he couldnt go on. And he was/is the Best

        So, not only doing fast laps in ANY simulator (including Red Bulls own profi sim) itsels means nothing, you also need to be extremely fit, almost like jet pilot or astronaut. 

      • Marco Conti

        There are probably plenty of world class athletes that would excell in F1 because they Have the physique and the hand eye coordination but they choose to follow a completely different route. Certainly, it would be a minority of people compared to the larger population, but by no means only limited to those that do get the chance. let’s not forget how expensive motor sports are.

        Greger Hutto probably would have made a fine racing driver (maybe not in F1, but that no one can say) if he was born near Monza and not in some fishing village near the Arctic and he had taken care of his fitness. His performance in the star mazda was excellent considering that he was terribly out of shape. 
        Also, go-kart driving is as demanding on the body as F1. I hear people crack their ribs routinely and few can drive back to back days.

      • Anonymous

        My uncle broke his ribs just by hitting a curb to hard, Same happened to my friend who races formula ford when he had a go in his brothers Rotax, He says karting is much more physically demanding than fford too which surprised me!

      • Anonymous

        Half the F1 field isn’t competitive in an F1 car either, if you gave them identical cars. That doesn’t mean there aren’t people who could drive them around the track. There’s a reason for the 7% rule 😉

        Isn’t that what driving aids are for?

      • Anonymous

        I disagree, when i was growing up in karts I watched lewis hamilton and paul di resta race (they are a bit older than me)  and raced against Oliver Turvey (mclarens test driver) a couple of times myself, Of course they were brilliant then but there were a large number of drivers there or there abouts, not forgetting these guys raced on the best equipment available on massive budgets (they would have a number of chassis and engines to choose from each race where most guys would have one of each for the season!) look to the lower formulas and i bet if you put any of those guys in an f1 car they would be quick, maybe a few tenths off the regular drivers! I guess this is shown at the junior tests where the young drivers are on the pace near enough on their first outing! Im not saying that any kid off the street could do it, someone who has dedicated there life to racing probably could. i flicked through a karting mag from 98 the other day and in there was Hamilton, Kubica, Di resta, Kovaleinen, Rosberg, Alonso, Button, Davidson and probably ten years time no doubt you will see many top karters there again!!  

    • Guilherme Cramer

      I don’t think the main complain is with real life simulation, but instead with buggy games without proper support from the developer, that talks a big talk but does nothing to back it.

    • zudthespud

      The lap times aren’t very realistic, Singapore is the worst, it’s easy to do about a 1:35 when the lap record is 1:45. I agree with everything else you say though.

      • Mario Simoes

        yes tue,but it a god setup and like the tgn says this is not the real world

    • tgn motorsports

       no race game on a pc is realistic in the first place. lol.

    • Anonymous

      That’s because you don’t know how to drive and just want a floating marshmellow to belt around.

      • Mario Simoes

        buy the rFactor and your problems over bro!!??;)

    • Mario Simoes

      100% true

  • Golam Kabir

    he shud look @ toca 3. interface was perfect.
    in fact codies shud look @ toca 3 as the basis of all their new titles

  • Anonymous

    2 new interviews and once again none broach the issue that every gamer has with Codemasters,
    bugs and lack of support.
    Maybe its time that game journalism brought in an investigative side to their interviews rather than just giving developers a platform to advertise their product. While companies may claim what they are doing as art, its art that is generating billions of dollars in sales with very little protection for consumers..
    Having said that customers that seem to be willing to pay up front even when there is a track record of bad consumers practices from a company deserver the treatment they get.

    “Well, we closed 11 out without a physics programmer, which is a bit of a problem on a racing game!”
    This would only be an issue if the game wasn’t completed ie closed out, so that leaves all the time between when they started and they finished as to when the physics programmer actually left.


    • Guilherme Cramer

      Their forum is split with people who bought the game (and 2010) and are annoyed with the lack of support, and people who ignore or can’t see any faults. It’s amazing seeing some people purposely blind themselves to the state of these games.

  • General Rush Hour

    “Well, we closed 11 out without a physics programmer, which is a bit of a problem on a racing game!”

    Well that depends entirely on what game you are making…. 
    F1 2011 for example would have made no difference to the end result. 

    Everyone, boycott Codemasters until they adress their problems.
    Otherwise you would sit there with F1 2023 which has identical problems to F1 2010

    • tgn motorsports

       f1 2011 was better then 2010.

      so f1 2012 will be arcade game once again compared to what?

      • General Rush Hour

        Yea no doubt about that. Instead of no safety car you got a buggy safety car. 

        It´s the thought that counts right?………

    • Anonymous

       Yeah we`ll boycott them.  That`ll lose them about 20 customers 🙂

      • Mario Simoes

         20 is nothing compare it millions of people;)

  • General Rush Hour

    Ok so after reading the short interview above it´s no secret that F1 2012 will be an arcade title once again. 

    Many sim title creators go about in a scientific way to figure out how to get the car to behave realistic. 

    Here is seems they go about the “spiritual way” where they tweak numbers until it´s “right”. 

  • Anonymous

    Codemasters never ever listen to their community. I used to be a fan but have been burnt too many times now. I will likely never touch another game form them unless they really change their ways (no sign of that yet).

  • Marco Conti

    “Well, we closed 11 out without a physics programmer, which is a bit of a problem on a racing game! ”

    No kidding! 

    this time, I will buy the game only once it goes in the $5 bin at Steam. We are going to have enough actual simulators to keep us busy, we don’t have to settle for half assed attempts from a company that ultimately doesn’t care about the quality of their product.
    Last season I joined a league and every race started an hour after the actual time because we could never manage to field drivers without a few of them being dropped by the server.

  • Lemming77

    Oh awesome. While rFactor held itself afloat since 2005, CM are happy to declare their game redundant after a year by admitting they basically hired a bunch of monkeys to come in and pee on everything? Yeah, cheers guys. Glad to hear my money was well spent.

    • StarFoXySxv550

      rFactor didn’t have a multi-million dollar contract to support from a greedy FOM & FIA as far as I am aware.

  • Ben Lee

    Haven’t bought a Codies game since TRD3 and i’m not about to start any time soon.

    Forget the PC market Codies, you have your legions of console kiddies to appease!

  • Sam Stratten

    Here’s an idea. Stop bitching about CM every single time an article is posted about them. Go play your chosen sim instead and that way you, me and the rest of the world can move on.

    • Anonymous

      These mutli platform game suck though, always problems with steering or online.

      • Sam Stratten

        And dedicated platform games have never sucked in the past?

        My point being we get the same rants over and over again about F1, GT and Forza, Shift and PCars. All this energy could be put to better use actually playing the games these people hold dear.

      • Anonymous

        Only PC sims have excellent steering and MP, so the fact is, it’s multi platform/console junk at fault here.

      • Sam Stratten

        It has nothing to do with the platform. It is all to do with the developer and community.

      • Anonymous

        here’s an idea – let people have an opinion and debate it if you don’t agree.

        I think the Codies games are terrible mainly because they don’t give a crap about the community at all. Go check any of their official forums, they only have reps around for the first 2/3 months, then they completely abandon it unless there is a DLC pack coming, of which there will not be because to Codies, DLC is actually a method to purposefully withhold content from release that they bring out as several DLC packs immediately afterwards (read: Dirt 3), it’s so blatent a monkey could tell. Codies can f off mainly because of this. And i am not saying don’t do DLC, but Codies have no clue how to add value to their games through it, and as i said, the biggest issue is it is obvious they actually withhold certain cars and tracks, bring them out a few weeks later and charge you for it. But hey, i complained quite a bit on launch about how obvious it was, and there were people saying, “meh, i will buy the DLC, its great!” and to “stop moaning and get out if you don’t like it because they were so fed up of the negativity in the forums”. I don’t subscribe to that mentality.

        And then there is how they keep releasing new versions of a series with the same bugs as last time, the same flaws, the same exploits. Day 1 of Dirt 3, cheaters everywhere because they don’t care to change their code at all, same bugs, same lag bug, same problems for some with crashes (the same crashes as found in F1 titles).

        There are always good reasons for silly games with silly physics, like for people who have pads, etc, and while i think they are pretty dull, boring and uninspired compared to the real sim experience, i can see why some might enjoy it (easier to play, less commitment, don’t know what they are missing). But Codies have become a hackjob, they are churning out reasonably enjoyable games (kinda nice arcadey handling that’s quite unique) with tons of bugs, no support to the community, and everything i have said above.

        So there you go, an opinion that paints out my experience over 5/6 loyal years as a Codies fan, but no longer – no way in hell.

      • Sam Stratten

         Sorry, didn’t see any DLC for F1 2010-11 so I can’t agree with your gripe on an F1 thread.

        My point was that the haters continue to click on F1 stories knowing full well it isn’t going to be to their liking and then carry on like they’re hard done by. Just accept the fact that CM don’t make this game for the minority sim community, play mods on dedicated PC platforms and be happy. I don’t see how whinging in a VirtualR comment section is going to change anything.

  • seua

    still no dedicated server option??
    well, that’s all the league in the world staying away…
    but, for sure, they prefer sofa players…
    no doubt, it’s a very commercial move!
    so, it will be another “GAME” from codemasters!
    nothing to do with simulation…

  • sclowes

    It is so disappointing how the F1 licence holder for the last few years have chose to go down the “unresolved problem cash cow” route, just like they did with the TRD trilogy…
    Churning out a new edition out like it was a beta each year, the community plead for essential patches, Codema$ter$ throw out a single patch on things they were already woking on before the retail release and leave other community discovered issues to rot the followers. Who then buy the next edition in the hope that Codies will somehow change their tune.

    Admittedly, I bought F1 2010, but after seeing where their priorities were I stopped at that and do not intend to buy another Codies game in the forseeable future.

  • Anonymous

    If the game multiplotformennaya, then a realistic physics can be forgotten. It will not. Especially Kodemasters already done several times ^ 1 and it was disgusting physics. I am very upset that the rights to produce F1 games belong to this company.

  • Ross Siggers

    God, you guys make me feel like a criminal for simply enjoying these F1 games. Get a grip.

  • Xmoto Racer

    I hope Steven hood has a license for that gun he’s shot himself in the foot with…

  • Philip Samuelson

    There aren’t many things I can read to make me think that pirating is a very damn good idea. When I hear this guy note NOW that they ended the last iteration without a physics programmer, buying any game he is associated with just doesn’t sound like a smart idea. Any game is solely based on physics… Can you actually make a decent game without someone who specializes in physics? I never bought the game, so please someone fill me in on that, maybe I’m completely out to lunch and need some perspective.

    That being said… Where the hell was that note with all the huge build up with them telling us how great the last iteration was going to be? Where was the subnote, oh by the way we don’t have a full production team. What’s missing you ask? Uhh physics. WHAT? Seems like he’s only now telling us this because he knew he’d likely be without a job if he told us the truth up front. It’s sad.

    His twitter comment really sets me off too. I’m a business owner myself, and I’ve had people tell me not to bs them before. I always defend myself, but it seems what Dan Hawkins said was completely docile and didn’t remotely deserve the sharp response of “So I’m hardly a liar.” I guess I would need to see the rest of the text, perhaps that part of his response is directed at someone else. Still, rubs me the wrong way.

    • My Special Friend

       Not sure how that ties into justifying piracy.  As a game it’s amazing.  As a SIM it’s “ok” but I don’t condone piracy or theft of physical or intellectual property at any stage.  They have the license because they actually did something with it.  F1 wants to promote the sport and this is how you do it.  It’s challenging but still accessible.  I love RF GTR and iRacing as much as the next guy but none of those have the power to promote a sport into the mainstream like this does (sad but true).  Unfortunately (or maybe not), there are fewer hardcore SIM snobs than there are people who just want to bloody race, have fun and have a good time.  This game ticks all of those boxes so it’s hard to be too pissed about it.

      • Philip Samuelson

         I don’t condone it, what I was trying to say is there are some remarks I hear people associated with games that make me wonder why they’re surprised people don’t want to pay for their work. The remarks Mr. Hood made run right along those lines. I never condone it, just sometimes ignorance and superficial developer greed makes me better understand why some people pirate.

        Personally… I never have bought F1 2010 or 2011. I cannot speak on how good of a game they are. My reaction is strictly directed towards the comments of this article. My apologies if it didn’t come off correctly :).

      • Anonymous

        Funny thing is looking at most of the posts here is that people are not in general complaining about it not being a sim but about Codeasters only wanting customers till they have their money, shoddy bugs on release and lack of support patches.
        There are probably some who would equate money aspect of Codemasters as a copy of F1 policy when you consider Bahrain, Maybe thats all F1 truly is these days. 
        If  F1 wanted to portray the sport through a game you would assume that they would not accept the bugs in rules and gameplay that Codemasters F1 seems to hold most dear.

      • Anonymous

         We don’t like to hear it, but you’re absolutely right.

  • Boss Player

    Well, I’ll be honest, people know convertions are not allowed, but if codie (or other devs) keep giving us arcade games you can’t expect people stop converting models to other sims only because laws say so. If someone think he can have a better simulation somewhere else he simply won’t stop converting, no matter what you say or think. There are only two solutions to this problem:

    1- Release better original products, giving proper simulations and then, scale it down for casual people

    2- Control internet with super strict nazi rules, but this would cost a LOT of money: basically means you have to close 80% of sim racing/league/mod deposit related sites, keep closing new ones, close every file sharing service, keep closing new ones, close every torrent site, keep closing new ones. Go ahead FBI… you will end up just wasting a lot of money and always being one step behind. Because with the time needed to close something people will already upload and download stuff somewhere else.

    Bottom line, FIRST OPTION makes much more sense.

    • Ales Ogrinc

      This is most stupid comment i have ever seen but really not surprised that it came from you.
      As usually youre bashing on games just cause they are not done in youre taste!
      And on top of that maybe you should start looking around cause there are still alot of quality mods and on top of that from F1 you get tons of mods each year and some were actually done in awesome quality but no you people just wanted allways on top of all f1 mod even a codis conversion.
      People like you are destroying the community of modding. And get a damn life allready and stop complaining and trolling around here!

      • Boss Player

        This has nothin to do with the amount of mods available, I’m saying I understand people wanting to take advantage of good 3d models and use them in a more realistic envirioment period.

        The same goes for legal mods, if the mod is well done like DRM or Enduracers I’ll support it. And lol about “destroying modding” I see lot of hypocrisy here. Lot of you are fake, you try to play nice, than if we look into your hard disk we find at least one convertion. So stop being fake.

        And developers stop releasing half assed games pretending to appeal sim racing market.

      • Ales Ogrinc

         Like i sayed it has alot to do whit how you think about this. Cause there is a game that doesnt fit to some people you have to steal its content from it. And sofar we there was each year atleast one legal f1 mod for rfactor but still people like you dont appreciate that work and rather make some conversion cause there is slightly better 3d model…

        I mean really, stop trolling so much around here on virtualr about each games news and complaining allways… And youre talking here about lot of hypocrisy, have you actually ever seen youre posts? If you stop trolling here it will be far better or atleast change youre behavior whatever age you are and sometimes bite into youre tung rather than comment whit stupid arguments.

      • Boss Player

        Calm down fool. Talk about sims instead of attack users. FYI I have 52 coments and unfortunately for you 39 likes received. This mean people don’t think I’m saying BS. I can’t please everybody but who cares really. I just thank people like Sandrox that gave us state of art convertions, partially saving that Shift 2 Unleashed total fail. 

      • Ales Ogrinc

        Sure you get only likes cause there is nothing else here except reply and like buttons but only few would start arguing whit fools like you.

      • Anonymous

        Take it outside guys. We can do without the name-calling too.

  • devotid

    You can keep your drama.
    time to go rallying!  

  • Anonymous

    bye !

  • Mario Simoes

    i m happy only for the game existe…

  • Reels Rihard

    You know, I can’t believe people see the comment about no physics programmer and still think that this is not attempting to steal from the customer base. Or not mentioning it at all  before the games release. The talking up of features that end up not working properly. Making a patch that leaves a game breaking bug when doing longer races. (the tire bug, read about it. reproducible) This list goes on. If they are not honest before release, then it is an attempt at stealing, period. If they do not fix said bugs or return your money,  they have, stolen your money.

    Before anyone gets a ridiculous idea, NO, no one is perfect, I know it’s also a business. All games have bugs but some bugs are way worse than others. Some real attempts  by codies  have to be made to fix or let the community submit fixes, (to game breaking bugs) codies looks them over and approves them. There are people who would do this for free and the recognition of their talents which would also expand the industry. This is a constructive idea to the problem. I am sure others have even better ideas than mine.

    You can’t leave a game broken for one person and say well, the majority doesn’t do races that long so it’s ok. That’s stealing, plain and simple. Do two wrongs make a right? Nope. It also doesn’t make it right for you to steal just because you put up the money for a product. When I was in the USAF I didn’t get to let the electronic equipment I worked on, sort of run, I had to fix it.

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