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Endurance Porsche Cup Series – Released Called Off

A legal inquiry from Porsche has forced Enduracers to call of the public release of their much anticipated Porsche GT3 Cup Series mod for rFactor.

A legal inquiry from Porsche has forced Enduracers to call of the public release of their much anticipated Porsche GT3 Cup Series mod for rFactor.

The team released a short statement, confirming that the release has been cancelled due to legal reasons:

EnduRacers Modding Team is sorry to announce that after having been contacted by Porsche AG, the Porsche GT3 Cup Series mod project will not be released to the public. We thank you for your support during the development.

Possible legal trouble has always been looming over the modding community and it has been feared by many that big companies might take down mods for copyright infringement and in this case, it seems to have happened.

This is the first time a major automaker has gone after modders since Ferrari came cracking down on Batracer all the way back in 2009.

This is a real shame for the sim community as Enduracers are known to deliver top quality work that would have done Porsche’s excellent vehicle justice, sadly the rFactor community has now been robbed of what could have been the last big mod release for the simulation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/m4rr5 Marcel Offermans

    Actually, all the way back in 2005, something similar happened when Redline Developments (in other words, Team Redline as we know them) released the first version of the GTP mod, based on NR2003. Back then, the Papyrus IP had been bought already by First-Racing (new called iRacing). The end result then was that they could release a modified version of the mod, but in general iRacing was clear about protecting their IP (and as a company I can understand that). See for example: http://www.joystiq.com/2005/03/07/gtp-mod-for-nr2003-re-released/ for some information about that story.

    • http://twitter.com/eralerf Stefan T.

      In that case it seems that it was about the game itself they wanted to protect and not the actual cars/liveries.

      Here it’s just making sure there isn’t any competetion for their Automaniax game. As it’s supposed to be free they must be really afraid of the quality the modding community can offer…

      • http://www.facebook.com/m4rr5 Marcel Offermans

        In that case there were two things: 1) their IP, in other words the game engine and 2) the actual cars/liveries. If you read that story you can see that the actual changes that Redline had to make was to replace the brand names of the cars with “fantasy” ones. Same for the liveries. Actually, a company in the US is required to protect its IP. If you fail to do that in one case, you get in legal trouble if someone else uses it in another case.

      • http://twitter.com/eralerf Stefan T.

        Yeah but it seems that they weren’t the licenseholders of the liveries and brandnames. With that move they wanted just to protect their game and themselves so they can’t be sued by the respective licensholders. At least that was First Racings way of looking at things then.

        At least that’s what I get from reading your link.

      • http://www.facebook.com/m4rr5 Marcel Offermans

        That is correct, they had no license for those brands, so they could not allow the release. In general they did not want any further mods (by anybody) to appear though. Of course that is their right, we have to respect that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001061294656 Rhys Gardiner

    If I said the exact language that is on my mind at the moment, I’d probably get myself banned.

    This is horrible news… What a shame. 🙁

  • http://twitter.com/eralerf Stefan T.

    That’s a great way to earn friends Porsche. Wait, it’s not…

    • Richard Hessels

      Let’s all just not buy a Porsche for our next car.
      Just decided my next car will be a Ferrari.

      Oh wait, most people that make enough money to buy such super cars ain’t got much time left for serious simracing.

    • hoodge1

      SO TRUE.

  • Danny

    I don’t understand why everybody is so pissed of.
    I mean, Porsche do hold the rights to their own brand and products, so they every right to block this mod.
    Sure. It sucks, but especially considering a offical Porsche game (possibly featuring the SuperCup) is on the way (or not?) it’s sort of logical…

    • Anonymous

      Indeed. It is a shame though.

    • M1GHTY M4VS

      I doubt the SuperCup is on its way in their own game from Porsche Official. It might be the GT3 Cup Car that is in one of their licensed content that confronts EnduRacers’ build. It’ll be ironic to have it used for the teams itself when Porsche’s Versions fail to deliver the realism.

  • Anonymous

    Dont want to sound negative. As i really wanted to see the mod also and respect
    Enduracers .

    But why didnt Enduracers checked this before they started? Saved alot of free time for them also. As they worked hard on it. 🙂

    • Anonymous

      If they had checked they’d have been told “no”.

      • M1GHTY M4VS

        now that I think of this could have happened to GSMF’s PCC 2009 aswell if Porsche cared, still they didn’t seem to bother.
        Anyway logical is either way league usage 😛

      • Paul Mullins

        As I tell my friends about our wives: “Better to beg for forgiveness than ask permission” 🙂

  • traind

    Sounds like Automaniax to me. They are working on a product that would end up competing with Enduracers mod. Why would people buy the Automaniax one if Enduracers comes out and is as good or better? So they talk to Porsche and Porsche sends a letter and thus no release.

    I suppose it makes sense from a business perspective for Automaniax but Porsche comes off looking bad in both this (and the dumb agreement they signed with EA).

    • http://twitter.com/Tigerteeth Paul Evans

      I think Automaniax should make sure their own house is is in order before worrying what other (non profit) groups are releasing – they already have a dubious reputation in the community with a lot of negative press and they haven’t released anything yet. This may be one partner Porsche wished they hadn’t teamed up with.

      • http://www.facebook.com/marcel.penzke Marcel Penzkofer

        100%. The other partner must be EA though.

    • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

      Why would people buy automaniax in the first place?

  • http://twitter.com/Tigerteeth Paul Evans

    Such a pity to see a such high quality mod being denied a release. I can understand the reasons for a commercial title being stopped, but the reasons for preventing a free modification being released make no sense to me.

    • Frank Geyer

      “This really sucks
      big time …!” It always ends up in running after MONEY, POWER AND SEX
      for some very few people ruining it for the rest of the world !!!

    • Anonymous

      Well, maybe. But it is up to Porsche to decide what its interests are and how they are best served. Not you. 😉 It sucks, but that’s property rights…….

    • http://www.facebook.com/alan.dallas.1 Alan Dallas

      I can tell you exactly why they are preventing a free modification from being released. Copyright/Trade dress laws put it something like this:
      The copyright of photos, drawings, digital recreations, and paintings are owned by the person or company
      responsible for creating the photo, drawing, digital recreation or painting; aka ‘Artworks’. HOWEVER, once such artworks of real properties are transformed or applied to a commercial
      product, or used to endorse another commercial product, the trade rights of the real property owners are
      violated if prior consent has not been given. Therefore, you cannot use ‘Artworks’ you created in connection with commercial
      for profit advertisements, endorsements, merchandise or other for profit products.

      If the EnduRacers team had created their own Sim engine and gave it away(or were a registered non-profit organization operating off donations to cover some over head costs) then there would be no problem with any of this. But since it’s a Mod of a Commercial product… well you see what happened.

  • Big Ron

    “sadly the rFactor community has now been robbed of what could have been the last big mod release for the simulation.”
    ———————————————————————————————————–

    I think “robbed” is the wrong word here. Nobody has been robbed since mods with copyrighted material since ever have been tollerated, but nevertheless never were legal in the widest sense. So it´s quite resonable that Porsche got the word here quite short before a release of their own product.

    • C4

      “Robbed” of a mod which is approximately 100% owned by the modding team, Enduracers, since they can’t release it in its current state.

      The legal issue is only about use of copyrighted names (“Porsche”, maybe “Porsche Cup”) and an almost 100% match of the cars body shape, I assume.

    • Kendra Jacobs

      ummm ya rFactor community was robbed, what are you some 50 year old lawyer whos never been layed? “Nobody has been robbed” “Its quite resonable” LOL listen to yourself, go read a textbook or something.

  • mmracinggpl

    It sure would be a real shame if this mod were to be accidentally leaked to P2P…

    • gt3rsr

      Ha, exactly!

    • http://twitter.com/GeraArg Gerardo

      Bug Cup

    • http://twitter.com/Michael_42 Michael

      That would just result in the legal action going ahead

      • Kendra Jacobs

        legal action to who, why dont they just remove the logos and the name porsche

      • Scott Ibbetson

        Because it’d still be the same car shape which Porsche have the licenses and rights to (which is common practice for car makers to copyright the shape/likeness of their cars)

      • Marco

        I think they should just strip the Enduracer name from the mod and release it on P2P in six months or so. Everyone will know it’s them, but no one will be able to prove it.

        And if I am not mistaken, there is already a number of similar mods around. Why the legal action now?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001061294656 Rhys Gardiner

        Of course, you realise that discussing it here in the open might be used as evidence in and of itself?

      • Kendra Jacobs

        Millions of people in the world (Billions actually lol), hundreds of countries, etc etc, how could anything regarding the mod be proved lol

      • Anonymous

        +1

  • Marco Hooghuis

    I think it’s a great compliment if professional game builders get scared of the work by modders 🙂

    • Big Ron

      In a lot cases, especially in the sim-genre, most professional developers have been modders also right before.

      • Marco Hooghuis

        I know, but it’s still a big compliment if you’re still a modder. But I know that at least Simbin and Reiza started out as a modding team.

      • Big Ron

        I know what you mean. A lot modders have the same skills as a commercial developer. The difference is, that a developer has more opportunities and tools to do the job.

    • Anonymous

      I think it is also a possibility that Enduracers (and other modders) not just sharing their mod to the community, but also advertise their team to the professional developers. Who knows, probably they’re now hired by Automaniax, get paid to do their hobby

  • http://www.facebook.com/stephan.czekay Stephan Czekay

    Maybe modding team has to get in touch with RUF and call at finally RUF Cup series. I think they are more open

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621361738 Chris McLellan

      Brilliant suggestion.

  • http://twitter.com/kr1nz kr1nz

    I just lost a big part of my respect for Porsche.

    • Anonymous

      +1

  • Juhan Voolaid

    I will neve buy a Porche! 😛

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Brigden/1130115739 Kevin Brigden

    Just do what ISI do and call it something innocuous like “Pork Pie Cup”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Taxi-Driver/100003315255777 Taxi Driver

      Corsche Parrera puc by Sprintracers modding Team

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Krzysztof-Urban/100000662962796 Krzysztof Urban

        THIS!

      • Anonymous

        Yes, a litigation prosecutor and judge would be totally fooled by that, right?

      • C4

        Isn’t that just how law works?

      • Anonymous

        I doubt it.

        Come on, it’s just silly to expect to get around laws in such fashion. As a joke, haha – but seriously….no. 😉

      • Kendra Jacobs

        Well considering china copies the almost exact model of the mini, bmw x3, and I can keep going, im pretty sure that that IS just how the law works, some of you guys are such panzies

      • Anonymous

        China doesn’t enforce copyright law…

      • Scott Ibbetson

        Now watch as a Chinese team copies Enduracers and releases it 😛

      • Anonymous

        You perhaps mistake the fact of Chinese infringement as evidence the companies don’t care about it. They certainly do. If it was as simple as writing a letter, or even pursuing legal redress, doubtless they’d do it. And they do – only with little success (because of Chinese national economic and political strategy)

        Nobody argues China doesn’t indulge counterfeits and rip-offs. We aren’t talking about China though.

        ——

        In the past, foreign companies filing claims of copyright infringement in China were usually defeated by the government, which sided with domestic carmakers. The Chinese government also requires foreign carmakers to partner with domestic companies, which does force companies like Ford to divulge information they normally would not.

        However, JAC is not one of Ford’s Chinese partners, so the Blue Oval had solid legal justification.

        Given the Chinese government’s past behavior, it is likely that Ford had a little help. The government may have sided with Ford this time. It remains to be seen whether JAC will respect the decision, or build its knock off F-150 anyway.

        Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ford-takes-legal-action-against-chinese-company-over-knockoff-f-150/#ixzz25nL7N5Lv

    • Alejandro Gorgal

      It’s not that easy Im afraid, apparently they also license the shape of the car itself, so they would need to make substancial changes to that too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/fabio.pittol Fabio Pittol

        You’re right, actually they always have the rights of the whole thing. But generally they pick most on brand name, logos etc. I’ve seen many games with perfect car shapes with fake brands.

      • Anonymous

        It would not matter what its called, It would be easy to legally show its based on their property Up and till now, modding was tolerated by the big brands The flip coin is, that when they get interested in Games and Sims as a marketing tool, they will not stand for competition.

      • Kendra Jacobs

        please give me a break

      • Anonymous

        can you explain any different?

    • http://twitter.com/Tigerteeth Paul Evans

      Modding groups shouldn’t have to resort to do this for the sake of avoiding a legal dispute. Big commercial software companies should have enough faith in their own product without having to resort to legal threats to erase competition from people who do this stuff for free. An officially licensed Porsche game will always sell more than a free mod for a non-mainstream PC title, there is absolutely no threat to the publisher and if the game is good enough (sometimes even when it isn’t) it will generate a lot of revenue.

    • http://twitter.com/walsh_luke Luke Walsh

      ‘Posh Carrier Mug’

  • Anonymous

    Remember the big fight we had in here last year about modding going commercial ? Like i said.. When modding gets involved in the commercial world, it will always end up in sorrow. This is certainly not the fault of Enduracers. A big shame.

    Lets just hope that this will not trigger a chain reaction, and ends the ” tolerated creativity ” view of company´s towards modding.

    • http://twitter.com/eralerf Stefan T.

      Well Ferrari showed with FVA that you can release a own simracing game and still don’t need to mess around with modders. But of course FVA was a great piece of software…

  • Eric Zehnder

    Shouldn’t be hard to release this anyway. As SMS have explained, in order to get around licensing you need to refer to it yourself as something else (hence Audi’s are referred to as Asano’s in Project CARS) and the car itself has to have 3 differences from the real thing. That’s it plus, perhaps, a disclaimer that says that what you’re releasing is a work of fiction and that any resemblance to a real car is purely by accident.

    Done.

    • Anonymous

      To be frank, that doesn’t seem all that fair on the copyright holders. If someone makes “3 differences” to, say, Virtua LM’s Mid Ohio, and calls it High Ohio, then it’s fine?

      If it was litigated, I doubt SMS’s position would hold scrutiny. It would depend on the extent of those ‘3 differences’, I guess.

      • http://twitter.com/memph1sra1ns Sir Gallahad

        Actually they claim tracks can be the exact same, at least the road itself. Track side objects and landmarks would have to be changed. Cars are what need at least 3 differences

    • http://twitter.com/MatzeLoCal Matthias Schonder

      I’m not sure if the “rebranding” of the Audis in pCars is valid… even if there are no complaints from Audi yet.
      Audi holds not only the rights for Name and Logo but also for the design of the car.
      So (in my opinion) the fact that Audi remains silent about DTM A4 and the R18 in pCars does not mean that it is legally bulletproof … I would say it’s more that Audi tolerates the use of the shapes.

      • Eric Zehnder

        If you’re a member, you can see Ian’s response to the legalities of what they’re doing with cars and tracks. Their legal team is very comfortable they’re operating within the law.

      • Anonymous

        I would be interested to see that. I’m a bit skeptical about three changes being ironclad. A reasonable way to limit legal risk, but not much else.

      • simmagic

        Look at SimBins (not)Mercedes in one of the STCC expansions. Its not called a Merc and there were a few obvious (minor) changes, all other cars were licensed.

      • Anonymous

        My question is more of whether the 3 differences policy is simply a best practice, or actually written into copyright/trademark law.

      • http://twitter.com/TheAmunraaa Aleksander Turnsek

        3 differences on BODYPANELS and a different name is a bulletproof way of
        recreating anything that moves. If you are recreaing something that is
        static (buildings, statues, race tracks) you just have to rename it but
        the recreation can be exactly the same as IRL (i.e. laserscanned stuff)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Krzysztof-Urban/100000662962796 Krzysztof Urban

    F1 1955, F1 1989 and now this. Please, we waaaaant more!

  • gt3rsr

    What a joke!!! We already have Porsche Cup mods, we already have several mods containing Porsches, so why is it a problem now? Just release it underground.

    • http://twitter.com/Tigerteeth Paul Evans

      This won’t happen. EnduRacers have been formally approached by Porsche AG and have complied with the request to stop the release of the mod. All other Porsche mods were allowed to be released because no approach was made to stop them being released. Any leak will probably have legal consequences for ER which none of us want, so the only way this can be resolved is to engage with Porsche AG and persuade them to think again about their decision.

      • http://twitter.com/eralerf Stefan T.

        They won’t think about it because they want to push their Automaniax project.

        So we should just ignore that Automaniax game and tell them that way what we think of them.

      • Kendra Jacobs

        How can you prove who is part of enduracers, how can you prove that that guy worked on the mod, how can you prove he even had it on his computer, how can you prove that he was responsible for releasing it to public, how can you prove etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

  • http://twitter.com/Polyphonie Mike

    Porsche’s approach to racing game is not only sad but antiquated. To think that after all these years of having their cars in Need for Speed, some young blood at Porsche would be eager to see their cars being well depicted in a respected sim title. But instead they’ve partnered themselves with a developer who has no interest in the sim-racing community and whose main reason is to make the most money out of the least amount of effort and involvement.

    It might have worked 20 years ago and if there’s a good description for a company like Porsche, it would be a tunnel visionary.

    • Anonymous

      “make the most money out of the least amount of effort and involvement.”

      Well, why not? You want them to make greater effort, or profit less? Same thing, no?

  • Anonymous

    This has been a long time coming. It’s only been the goodwill and or ignorance of such companies that has allowed all this to go on so far as it has.

    The surprise shouldn’t be that Porsche decide to do this, rather that the others haven’t (yet).

    • http://twitter.com/eralerf Stefan T.

      They’re doing this just because they’re afraid of the competition for their own game. There’s no other reason behind this.

      • Anonymous

        The reason is they’re a global luxury brand – and they are entitled and obligated to protect it .

        And anyway, why should AutoManiax (or anyone else) pay for exclusive licences when they aren’t exclusive?

        Yah boo, there’s no Porsches allowed in games. Except for the licensed game…….well, there ya go. Buy the game? See how it works? OF course – we all do. The only surprise is it has lasted this long – though that’s probably only a reflection of the disdain in which “simulators” have been held by the car companies, and how amateurish and niche the whole affair has been.

        But look around? It’s an altogether more mature venture, with significant money involved.

        How much is the Porsche licence? How much AutoManiax pay? Who knows?

        But if you pay for an exclusive licence, you’d want (and expect) it to be exclusive. Else why pay for it?

        And the public wants what the public gets
        But I don’t get what this society wants
        I’m going underground, (going underground)

      • Gerald

        Your devil’s advocate stance is wearing thin.

  • gt3rsr

    OK then… and will the car still be released as a GTC class car in the Endurance Series mod? Or is this possibility dead too?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pablo-Coronel/583236136 Pablo Coronel

    It’s unfairness that those who produce quality work get in legal troubles, meanwhile those who rip content from commercial games went unpunished.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1624631567 Coen van den Nulft

    It’s such a shame! I hope the creators of the mod will get some sort of compensation for their hard work. I always loved Porsche, but not anymore…

    • Anonymous

      Feel free to compensate them at your leisure. 😀

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Every/678881382 Robert Every

    God bless WMD for making Porsche Ag all too aware of the game and modding community after the Eutechwotsit affair. Another great thing they have done for sim gaming eh? Thanks for that. Let’s hold a lid on stuff for a while eh before others get involved, close the damn thread!

    • Alejandro Gorgal

      Dude what? What in Valhalla’s name does SMS has to do with this thing at all? The SMS hate has officially reached a new level of insanity. And by the way, a certain post made by one of the Enduracers team member has strongly suggested that it was in fact the Automaniax people who asked for this. But even if that wasn’t the case, how could you suggest that SMS is responsible for this? I swear, the way that some troll always manages to bring SMS into every single conversation is incredible, they are making a game, not an atomic bomb. I feel like soon Im going to be reading a news article about a maxi-pad and in the comments some dude will pop-up to complain about how SMS eats kitties for breakfast.

    • Eric Zehnder

      I say leave the thread open and delete your post.

      Alejandro Gorgal has the rest for you…

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Every/678881382 Robert Every

        Lol, do you guys know anything about the recent Porsche incident and WMD?

        Dear Lord, lets wait and see Mercedes, VW (who own Porsche rememeber) and all the others come in and disallow and threaten modders about their content then eh?

        Threads like this help noone!

  • http://www.facebook.com/philipp.koch.39 Philipp Koch

    haha Idiots!!

  • Anonymous

    Something about this just seems odd there must be more to this story, its like someone reported endurance team to Porsche or the recent SMS suit against Porsche was wake up call.
    Look at all the previous work from Endurance, heck their mod has been every year at LeMans sim booth without any issue.

    • pez2k .

      As far as I know, the current plans for Automaniax are essentially based around a derivative of the GSMF Porsche Cup mod and the rFactor engine. You can see why they would view a free Porsche Cup mod for rFactor as competition and make a move to shut it down.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    I always thought copyright infringement was applied on commercial products, not on mods.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Garrett/100001190916179 Jason Garrett

    Keep everything the same except change the Porsche logos to RUF and change the name to RUF Racing Series. Problem solved. 🙂

  • Gerald

    This is what happens when the shady characters such as Automaniax enter the game. Like the mafia, they are your best friend until they cut your head off.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lars.vanamerongen.3 Lars van Amerongen

    This is utter bs,the mod will be released free of charge what are they wining about.See it as free advertising.

    • http://www.facebook.com/adam.tokar.7 Ádám Tokár

      A high quality Porsche mod could ruin the sales of a game with officially licensed Porsche products. The EnduRacer guys should contact Ruf – they are more open-minded about copyright issues. Many games and sims has Rufs as a Porsche substitute.

  • http://twitter.com/Touring_Pro TouringProSeries.com

    I think the issue here is that companies don’t mind mods at all when it doesn’t affect them. In fact they probably encourage them.

    Now of course this mod is free, but they do have plans of their own, with Automaniax Porsche Online and feel that this mod will impinge on the sales of that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1711429307 Chris Wright

    It’s interesting that there was recently a debate on here about the future of modding because, when all’s said and done, the situation facing Enduracers is probably the biggest threat to modding of them all.

    In a sense, the more successful and widespread sim racing becomes, manufacturers will, inevitably, become increasingly concerned about unauthorized use of their intellectual property assets. I know from my own experience of dealing with Porsche as long ago as the late 80’s that they take any use of their name, brand etc. extremely seriously and one needs to be meticulous in one’s transparency and disclosure with them. The days of putting out a mod without seeking such permission are surely at an end, not least because most manufacturers now license their identity and vehicles to developers for presumably lucrative fees.

    Casual modding is a loophole in this process and, whether we like it or not, it is perfectly understandable that manufacturers want to protect their name, brand logostyle etc., particularly in terms of delivering exclusivity to those who have legally licensed their use.

    So where does this leave modding? Well, as I said in another thread, we will probably see a gradual migration to the sort of business model that is common in flight simulation, where developers charge for their add-ons and acquire the necessary licensing from the appropriate companies and organizations.

    In essence, this is all part of a gradual process of our hobby becoming more professional. We will look back on the last decade or so as a golden period of free spirited enhancement of core titles.

    • Scott Ibbetson

      I can see a problem with that, as far as exclusive deals go with car makers and game makers.

      to use your flight sim analogy, imagine if when MSFS X came out in what…2005-6 or whenever it was, Cessena had already been approached by X-Plane and signed an exclusive deal to only have their planes in that sim, then Boeing followed suit with Flightgear, then Grunman went to HAWX, then Lockeed-Martin went to Ace Combat. Net result, planes scattered across several different sims

      That’s what we have with racing sims, it sounds pretty absurd when put in a flight sim context, but it’s normal in terms of car makers

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1711429307 Chris Wright

        I think you will find there has been considerable cross-title licensing, such as the Boeing jets by PMDG for FSX.

      • Scott Ibbetson

        That is true however I was comparing it to the exclusive deals we get in racing sims, a ‘what if’ scenario where the cross-ttile licensing didn’t happen though.

        It’s stupid how aircraft makers don’t do exclusive deals, yet car makers jump at the chance for the chance to only be in one game officially. It hurts people in the long run.

  • http://twitter.com/Martin_Keets Martin Keets

    Shame. These guys will have to give new versions of these instead.
    http://rfactor.net/rfmotors/

  • Wmaker

    One thing that everyone can do is spread the word about this incident far and wide. The deserved bad press for the Porche might make them think if it was such a wise move after all. That might also keep it from happening in the future.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1711429307 Chris Wright

      Not a chance I fear. You have to remember that product licensing has become a lucrative market. I don’t like it either and wish we could have an endless stream of mods, but, in some ways sadly, the world has moved on.

  • http://twitter.com/DerekSpeare Derek Speare

    My questions are simple:

    1 – does Porsche have a legal claim to prevent someone from making a digital image of their mark/brand/design and give it away is Enduracers intended to do?

    2 – since rFactor2 will rely on the mod community to make addons for the title, how does Enduracer’s acquiescence to Porsche affect the future for other mod teams and for the future of additional, mod-developed content?

    3 – Since we have at least one title on the horizon which will rely in part on community developed content, will this potentially quell the desire to make mods for it?

    4 – Has the claim Porsche is making every been thoroughly and rigorously tested in a court? (if you practice law, please state such as I am quite interested in this particular answer).

    5 – If the issue has not been tested as it should be and their does not exist any relevant analogue to it, should the community do more to back Enduracer’s possible right to make their mod as they want?

    I’m interested in this particularly for the reason that the mod community is what takes a very good or excellent title and makes it that much more for all of us. They don’t ask a dime in compensation and simply do it as a labor of the love for or collective interest, sim racing.

    In my opinion, Enduracers have the right to make their mod and freely distribute it as they want. It’s also my understanding that the name “Porsche”, or any other corporate name, is not protected from a simple utterance by another and that there are fair use issues which prevent them from asserting their claims as they may be doing (if Enduracers are charging, that’s another matter, but they aren’t IIRC).

    I say push back, fill sandbags, stuff the war chest and tell Porsche they can play nicely.

    • Scott Ibbetson

      1 – does Porsche have a legal claim to prevent someone from making a digital image of their mark/brand/design and give it away is Enduracers intended to do?

      Yes, it is their property and they have to defend their trademarks else they will lose them. As I said in 4 below, it does not matter if money is involved, it is their property and they have to protect it.

      2 – since rFactor2 will rely on the mod community to make addons for the title, how does Enduracer’s acquiescence to Porsche affect the future for other mod teams and for the future of additional, mod-developed content?

      Good point, will other car makers go down the same route now and put pressure on (I won’t say outright stop) mod teams from doing content with thier cars in it. We’ve seen Ferrari attack BATRacer in the past, now Porsche go after Enduracers. Let’s say McLaren sign an exclusive deal with SMS to have the M9500 in pCARS next year, then a mod team starts making that same car for RF2, McLaren may feel the need to write to the mod team and ask them to stop work on the mod.

      IMO rF2’s reliance on mods is a double edged sword, yes you have some car makers who don’t care (Gumpert, RUF), but you got some who are very lawyer happy.

      3 – Since we have at least one title on the horizon which will rely in part on community developed content, will this potentially quell the desire to make mods for it?

      Yes it will, at least initially as people will be worried about getting sued.

      4 – Has the claim Porsche is making every been thoroughly and rigorously tested in a court? (if you practice law, please state such as I am quite interested in this particular answer).

      The specific Porsche claim, no. IANAL, however researching it shows it to be copyright infringement at the very least.

      Last year, NBC/Universal took down all the Battlestar Galactica mods from ModDB, despite those mods being free and sevearl having disclaimers/copyright notices. Why? Because NBC had their own (poor) BSG online game running at the same time. If you opened a fast food chain called McRonalds with a golden M logo, would you expect McDonalds to sit back and let you keep running it? No, as they’d have to protect their name and trademarks.

      5 – If the issue has not been tested as it should be and their does not exist any relevant analogue to it, should the community do more to back Enduracer’s possible right to make their mod as they want?

      No, because in the end as said above, the car makers have the rights to the cars, they have a lot more money and manpower than a mod team and have the ultimate weapon, they can go to a court and (depending on the location and judge) order the mod team to stop, in which case there is nothing the mod team can legally do to release the mod once they have been told to stop by a court (Note: I said ‘legally’, I am well aware of ‘accidental’ leaks, but that could depending on who the car maker is lead to more punishment)

      • http://twitter.com/DerekSpeare Derek Speare

        McRonald’s Hamburgers would be engaged in an act of commerce, thus running afoul of McDonald’s rights. However, “McDonald’s Plumbing” would be safe provided they didn’t use the mark of McDonald’s Hamburgers. One has a claim to a trademark, but the rights to it are not unlimited or all encompassing.

        You have rights within your own industry classification and without. However, non commercial use is a different matter, and provided the use of the trademark is not in a libelous or otherwise harmful manner, the use is generally safe.

        What two parties agree is different than what a court decides. I’m interested in specifically knowing if courts have ruled on these things. “NBC taking down” is not the same as “The 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals for the United States affirmed an injunction against XYZ in favor of NBC to prevent the use of Mark ABC, etc.” Is the Galaga example simply another case where they gave in?

        I’d sure love to see some case citations on this stuff. If you have them, fire them off! 🙂

        Support Enduracers! Hell, at least release it as a Ruf 🙂

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1711429307 Chris Wright

      A lot of questions there, but I would answer it overall by saying that if companies like Porsche start to exercise these strong-arm tactics on freeware modders more and more, which I honestly think they will, they will make it completely unfeasible for modders to defend themselves against a much bigger opponent, due to the enormous legal costs and time that would be required.

      In the end, if you are using someone else’s intellectual property in an unauthorized manner, even for a free giveaway sim racing mod, the owner of that IP does have the right to protest and defend itself against such usage. If a judge decides that actual damage has been caused to their business, then significant compensation may also be awarded. Whether that is a wise strategy for the IP owner concerned is very much a case by case scenario and matter for the organization concerned, but you can understand companies like Porsche being worried that a car simulation might misrepresent the performance envelope, physical appearance, features and image of its brands. To say nothing of those companies who have paid a license to use these assets, only to see free of license use proliferate across the internet.

      It’s a great shame for Enduracers, and the wider community, of course. Totally inevitable, however.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tiago-Guerreiro/1426133677 Tiago Guerreiro

    Well eligal modding still strong out there!! lol

  • Anonymous

    I can not help, but feeling that the SMS / AX mud throwing contest did not help the modding scene. A real shame. Enduracers do it with passion and love for the motorsport industry. Sad that exactly that industry stops them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tiago-Guerreiro/1426133677 Tiago Guerreiro

    One word……. Automaniax…..Pigs!!!!

  • Ricoo

    What a shame. I hope Automaniax will fail seriously.

  • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

    This must surely be down to Automaniax or what ever you call ’em.
    Cant blame ’em for protecting their interests but pissing the race sim community off aint a very clever move though.
    Enduracers must have really got them running scared.

  • Guest

    This is a sad day for the modding world. 🙁

  • Steven Ciofalo

    Well I would instead like to ask for the PORTCH GT3 race series.. Please.

  • http://twitter.com/MaRcIuPT Márcio Oliveira

    that’s what you get when you tease that much a mod. simple release it when it’s done and that way there is no time to brands take some action.

    • Scott Ibbetson

      Except they can take action once it’s released though. Once something’s out there and a 1:1 copy of a Porsche, they are going to notice it and take action.

  • Richard Hessels

    To ensure the future of car modding, the modders should maybe advertise less about their development before it gets out.
    When it’s publicly released it’s nearly impossible to erase it from the depths of internet.
    Or be much less specific about the cars they are going to present (that’s quite difficult with a Porsche cup)
    It’s great to show the community the progress you’re so proud of.
    Feels good to have the whole internet full of people waiting and talking about it before it comes out. But with this buzz it creates they also gain a lot more attention from professional developers, who mostly paid a lot of money to have virtual versions of these cars exclusive in their game.
    When on a competing platform a identical car exists and might be even better than their effort. As most modders don’t have to worry about budgets, just the time they are willing to spend, chances are the Enduracers Porsche Cup would be one of the best available on any platform.

    Another thing, companies in general need to actively protect their trademarks and design asset, otherwise they loose the right on these in the long term.
    So you can bet if the customers who bought a license complain about this to Porsche, that their legal department would/should take action.

    So for future mod releases containing high profile car brands, with car models that are still in production, might have keep a bit more secrecy.
    Maybe before it’s released don’t post 100’s of pixel perfect screenshots of your work (from every angle) that exceed most professional efforts.

    Those things probably upset the companies the most that are currently trying to make a business with it.

    • Anonymous

      Well said. A bit of smart self-regulation. Use your nonce.

    • Anonymous

      It is also possible that hey’re not just showing the progress of their work to the sim community to “brag” about it, they are also advertise themselves to the professional developers.

      • Richard Hessels

        You could still advertise yourself to professional developers with your hard work after the mod is released to public.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.oosterlinck Michaël Oosterlinck

    Shame on you, Porsche!

  • Anonymous

    they can always release it with a different car shell and whatnot. Gfx don’t matter, right? 😀

    Or call it the Zen Proton Kitcar Cup. It’s a kitcar, right?

    http://is02.thegumtree.com/image/extrabig/149756006.jpg

  • Marco

    Wait, aren’t these the same guys that used SMS work for their demo trailer and never asked for permission or paid them a penny?

  • Skytrill .

    When Montoya made a post about “the end of modding” few days ago I thought at first that legal issues might have been the main reason. It was bound to happen sooner or later, but it has never bothered any car maker to receive this free publicity before, especially that modding is not lucrative therefore is supposed to be LEGAL, which leads me to think that some people that could be working on a Porsche title themselves might have seen this release as unnecessary competition.. Just a thought as I could be way off the track as well.

  • Matt Orr

    Automaniax or whatever it is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sergey-Yashin/100000741610394 Sergey Yashin

    Why a mod is considered like a game? I thought mods don’t have to be licensed…

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      It’s not that. It’s whether you use a copyrighted brand name or trademark.

  • Lemming77

    I can’t help but think things are somewhat fortunate at least. I’m always terrified that mods like these could incur the wrath of huge lawsuits. So it’s more of a relief to me when all you have to do is stop where you are.

  • Kendra Jacobs

    Give me the damn mod ill put it on the internet, just change all the logos and names then give it to me

  • Anonymous

    Another point of view, (imaginary conversation):
    Porsche: Hi Enduracers, you guys are so talented, why don’t you help Automaniax develop our free to play porsche racing?
    Enduracers: (Hurraah, finally our hard work paid off) That sounds good, I hope we can come up with win-win agreement.
    Porsche: That’s great, we’ll setup a meeting with you guys asap. Can you hold your mod releases until we can have a chat?
    Enduracers: Sure, no problem.

    That’s nothing wrong with that imho.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pablo-Coronel/583236136 Pablo Coronel

    What about if ALL mods are ilegal, because you are using brand/names and images that are copyrighted? for ex. the f1 1988 mod from c4, the name mclaren is a registered trademark, the shape of the mp 4/4 is property of mclaren, the very name Ayrton Senna is a registered trademark.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Well technically they all are if you use a brand name without permission. But it just so happens in this case that Porsche has taken steps to curtail a mod.
      It’s not like it happens every week or that it’s even a sign of things to come.
      Look how many mods are out there without companies threatening legal action.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pablo-Coronel/583236136 Pablo Coronel

        IMHO, it’s a sign, the modding has matured and reached a pro level (years ago right?), i’m just try to thinking like a “company”.

    • Anonymous

      Absolutely right – it’s something people have closed their eyes to.

      Personally I’ve been expecting this sort of thing and am surprised it has taken so long.

  • Noel Hibbard

    How about a release of just the hdv, pm and tbc files? Surely they could legally get away with that.

    • Scott Ibbetson

      Depends if there’s anything copyrighted in that though, e.g. any mentions of Porsche or Michelin, wouldn’t they have to change them too?

      • Noel Hibbard

        If there were any references to Porsche/Michelin they would most likely be in the VEH file which as you can see I didn’t list. They could just zip all these files up and release it as “Great Rear Engine RWD Physics”. Oh yeah, I forgot to put engine.ini to my file list above. If they did a release like that then just about any league admin could add Enduracer’s physics to their own private cars.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuno.copio Nuno Cópio

    In my opinion we should start a petition to send to Porsche explaining the situation. signed by everyone or make an email that all the people interested on this mod would send to an email at Porsche or at Volkswagen since they are the head company. And we keep sending until we get an response good or bad. But thats my opinion.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pablo-Coronel/583236136 Pablo Coronel

      This is not about Porsche or Enduracers or mods or good or bad will, there are laws, simply as that.
      “Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive
      rights, such as the ability to publish to various markets, license the
      manufacture and distribution of inventions, and sue in case of unlawful
      or deceptive copying. Common types of intellectual property rights
      include copyrights, trademarks,
      patents,
      industrial design rights, and trade
      secrets.” Source Wikipedia

      • Scott Ibbetson

        As much as Wikipedia isn’t a usually reliable source, that is pretty accurate.

        IMO Porsche won’t change their stance one bit if we start sending anything, it may have the opposite effect on it

      • Anonymous

        wiki IS a relatively reliable source.

      • Scott Ibbetson

        Not in academia it isn’t, you try turning in a paer at anything past high school level listing wiki in a bibliography and watch what happens

      • Anonymous

        I didn’t know this was academia. whoops.

        But anyway, as Wiki themselves say, ” you should not cite Wikipedia itself, but the source provided”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001409712315 Christopher James

        If it were “simple laws,” why are there any brand mods at all? Someone at Porsche made the descision to crack heads. I don’t see any strife from most of the other manufacturers, for which there are plenty of mods in rFactor, and for that they have my respect, and Porsche doesn’t.

  • NevZ

    It’s Automaniax fault. They contacted Porsche AG to inform them that Enduracers are hurting Porsche’s trademarks, copyrights with their release of their GT3 Cup Mod. Automaniax did that on purpose because they don’t want any type of competition (which they would have if Enduracers would release the mod) especially in a type of a FREE mod. It’s just easy as that.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Fact or opinion ?

      • NevZ

        Rumors on facebook but they seem to be pretty believable in my opinion.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        OK. I think I`d need a more credible source before I believed something like that, but who knows maybe Automaniax are out for a little payback.

      • ales alless

        Im sure about it to, it came in right time actually. But even if Automaniax didnt, Porsche had to do some legal action after the SMS problem that was here while ago to.

  • Anonymous

    Very sad news, was looking forward to this mod.
    They probably don’t care, but BOOOO!! to Porsche.

    Thank You Enduracers for making the mod, though will probably never be released…

  • Anonymous

    Let’s all write a petition to Porsche ?
    This copyright stupidity has go to, forever…
    It only kills mankind creativity for the benefit of a few select psychopaths…
    It’s only going to get worse until we all wake up, people…

  • http://www.facebook.com/nicolas.grignon Nicolas Grignon

    I’ll never understand these copy infringment when THERE IS NO MONEY involved!!!! it’s even free advertisment for Porsche and they have the [email protected]#$#ING greed to shut down something that do not steal from them… hey, Porsches morrons!!! It’s FREE for Xsakes!!! these people won’t do any money on your back, so why the big scare???

    • Scott Ibbetson

      It may be free, but laws are laws. It’s the same if it was Porsche or Ferrari.

      Quoting an earlier post:

      Pablo Corone

      This is not about Porsche or Enduracers or mods or good or bad will, there are laws, simply as that.
      “Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive
      rights, such as the ability to publish to various markets, license the
      manufacture and distribution of inventions, and sue in case of unlawful
      or deceptive copying. Common types of intellectual property rights
      include copyrights, trademarks,
      patents,
      industrial design rights, and trade
      secrets.” Source Wikipedia

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tiago-Guerreiro/1426133677 Tiago Guerreiro

        Ok, you can be sue by using Porsche name, but, Enduracers by sharing their mod for free mothing really serious will happen if they eventualy release the mod!! Distributing for free something with
        copyrights at some point Porsche will loose their time with some very little argument!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tiago-Guerreiro/1426133677 Tiago Guerreiro

      +1

  • http://www.facebook.com/SaFalken Tom Coombs

    I feel bad now that my daily driver is a 944. 🙁

  • http://www.facebook.com/SaFalken Tom Coombs

    Also, Porsche should be happy that there are people who love the 911 so much that they would make mods of it for simracing games. It is truly a distasteful car with the engine in the wrong place. Unlike the 944. 😛 😛

  • http://www.facebook.com/JMPylarinos Marc Pylarinos

    Fine then, Porsche, we didn’t know you disliked free promotion. Let us know next time.

  • David Wright

    Let’s be honest. Porsche don’t need free promotion. Developers will pay them to use their cars in a game. It would appear one of these developers has contacted Porsche to ask them to enforce their licencing arrangement. It is sad but that is the real situation.

  • nameless

    I feel bad for the modders. I hope they find strenght and motivaiton to move foward into new projects.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Brigden/1130115739 Kevin Brigden

    Hey fellas, I think I should point out that I was half joking. It would be a bit of a petty way round the issue but then again games companies have been doing it for years and years in all forms of sports games. Think of “Pro Evolution Soccer”, Super Monaco Grand Prix etc.

    As I said in the OP, ISI have done this for years. If I was talented enough to be able to produce mods and lead a mod team I would stipulate that my product would feature “knock off” cars and tracks and spend more time on making them as believable and fun as possible rather than worrying if they’re absolutely spot on to their real world counterparts. NKPro and Liveforspeed are good examples of entire simulators operating on this principle.

  • Anonymous

    just remove anything thats to do with Porsche in logos or names and name it something else ppl will hear about it and know what it really is.

  • hoodge1

    This one is a knife to my throat. One of the best Proto/GT moderns getting disrespected like this.

    Porsche what is your problem. I just don’t get why they would give up their license to Forza Motorsports who has imho not done the Porsche name justice with the horrible physics that game possess’s. Bought that Porsche pack for FM4 and driving a stock tuned Cayman is like driving a boat.

    Then SMS did wonders with the car in Shift 1 and 2. rFactor has bigtime done the Porsche brand a service more then anybody to be real in modelling and physics, and EnduRacers for all the hard work they put into this mod, now having to crunch it up and throw it into the garbage bin is a sad sad day for us fans of their impeccable work.

    I guess since every country in their own rights host Porsche GT3 cup car events, and the Porsche brand being the most used brand to be involved in the racing world ever, just don’t need games to represent their products. SMH.

    As a Porsche fan and lover, I’m getting turned off more and more by Porsche. Will Automaniax do the Porsche brand justice IF that title comes to fruition? I really feel sorry for the developers at Enduracers. They like Reiza need to and are ready to start creating their own Sim franchise. They would be another studio to really provide us hardcore sim fans a truly breathtaking experience, just as Reiza has given us.. I’m depressed now..

  • hoodge1

    With what I read in an article about (not sure who the name was or where I seen the article. Sure it’s on here, but I saw it I think on BSimRacing) about the future of modding in racing sims may possibly come to an end with all the car manufacturer’s clamping down on modders, If that comes about, SAD days for us rFactor 1 and 2 fans who count on the impeccable work of modding teams out there giving us all an amazing, fun experience.

    CAR MANUFACTURERS, these modders are helping your product sell more then you can ever imagine. Dam the sim racing community needs to ban together and protest and educate these car companies. Ya a license means money in their pockets.. Don’t think Porsche or Ferrari among others really need the money. Ferrari gives a license for Test Drive Ferrari Legends. Epic flop. Wow and the real Ferrari’s don’t handle no where near that virtual arcade game. Wow Ferrari, that’s epic advertising for your brand..

    This is just soo frustrating to me if modders could be shut down completely.. Sim racing would never be the same.. I’ll tell you this if Enduracers needed the money to buy a license, if we all banned together and sent them the donations, I’d be game for that anyday so our hobby can continue without duress.

  • http://twitter.com/DerekSpeare Derek Speare

    Folks have been making mods for flight sims for years – and selling them – where’s the difference here?

    • Anonymous

      You don’t know the difference between a plane and a Porsche car? Sheesh.

      • http://twitter.com/DerekSpeare Derek Speare

        The distinguishable legal elements are the heart of the matter.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve said it before I’ll say it again everyone has a right to protect their business. Do I like it in this situation? No I don’t. Will this cause Enduracers to go legit in the future? Worse things could happen IMO. If there are no damages to be paid by Enduracers they should just move forward and apply their talents to something else. I see this group as established enough to do like Reiza did and go official and start getting licensing and charging for an official released product.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001409712315 Christopher James

    Well, that settles it folks. If you want a super-realistic Porsche simulator to enjoy the unique physics properties of this amazing car…better get Need for Speed. Eff Porsche, Eff EA. I’ll never buy either of their products. I’m not even going to buy Fanatec products anymore. Eff ’em.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001409712315 Christopher James

    Looks like those of us who want to experience an ultra-realistic rendition of this car’s unique physics will have to buy Need for Speed…

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