T5 Touring Car Series (Payware Mod) – Now Available

UnitedRacingDesign have released their T5 Touring Car Series mod for rFactor 2 which is now for sale on their website.

The T5 is a fictional series featuring 500hp shilouette touring car racers which, purely by coincidence, share a striking resemblance with the cars from a very popular European touring car series.

Both the Aura T5 and the Bayro T5 are available individually, coming with six liveries each and selling for 5€ a piece. The cars are also available in a combo pack for 10€, buyers of the pack will also receive the third car model that will complete the series for free.

This is a very interesting experiment as pay ware mods are not commonplace in sim racing. Are you buying this mod? And if not, is it because you don’t like the content or because you are against payware in general? Share your view in the comment section below!

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • spoonana

    won’t be buying, either someone will upload this somewhere or another mod will be made for free

  • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

    A very sad day for the (Real) modding community. Pay mods are a poison for our hobby, but enough said…

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominguezolaondo David Dominguez Olaondo

      At least it’s full original content. 95% of current modding are imported cars/tracks from other games with physics from other released mods.

      I wouldn’t mind to pay for a good mod, but 5€ for a single car and 10€ for the pack seems excessive, imo.

      • Mrslfrsl

        At least they are bought and not rented. ;)

      • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

        There are enough other mods with original content coming from other modders or modding teams, and they are for free.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dominguezolaondo David Dominguez Olaondo

        Of course. But join some random F1 league and I bet half of the tracks, at least, are imported from Simbin/Codemasters etc, for example.

        Ripping stuff from other people (games) is the real poison, as it is something illegal and it’s something that very, very few people in simracing tries to protect. Asking money from a full original content is legit (as far as I know ISI is not against that); if you don’t want to pay, or you think it’s not moral to ask money for it, don’t buy it, nobody will force you to do it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

        On that point, yeah I agree. A lot of conversions from other games are going on

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        +1

      • Anonymous

        on the other hand, GSC is basically a rF1 mod, but licensed and with the right to sell it. and i agree with this type of things, licensing is expensive

      • Anonymous

        well, yes, original content based on a car that exist in real life and its recognizable, without the brand logo, selling it without the brand permission. The brands call this steal of intelectual rights.
        if they did a random custom original car shape, then, yes, why not? but you can see they are Audi and BMW, and the next one will be Mercedes.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dominguezolaondo David Dominguez Olaondo

        Does GSC have the license to do a Red Bull F1 car without the liveries? And the F3? I’m not really informed about this, but I guess that if you change few things of the car shape is enough to fool those intelectual rights, which is probably what Ales and Reiza did.

      • Anonymous

        haha, you got me there :), forgot those cars. anyways i support the work on original content and i didnt say i wouldnt pay for it, as its a lot of work hours to do it.
        Was just saying that maybe the brands will appear somehow someday, we dont know, i would be careful about selling something online like this, thats it.
        and if only changing some liveries and shapes its good to go, fine for them.
        dont want to pay? not mandatory.

    • Matt Orr

      Paid mods, paid skins, paid tracks, paid everything… People forgot how to wait patiently long ago.

      This isn’t flight simulator where any joe schmoe can get a checklist to start a 737-400 or whatever. Good luck getting really good data on tires. You will need it.

    • Mrslfrsl

      nm

    • http://s1.zetaboards.com/SimSkinsByDen/index/ PetrolheadDen

      Agreed.

    • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

      Nail on head.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      The poison of how you call it real modding community is the announcment of mods that never come out and the ripped content from other games actually.
      Isnt hardware modding same thing you all support? The only diferente is one is digital the other one is hardware but you have no problem spending hundrets of euros for it actually.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      nah

    • Anonymous

      I look forward to you guys releasing your own title at some point but have all the respect in the world that you see the difference between selling a mod and selling a game. Best wishes to all of you at RMT

  • http://www.facebook.com/magpieracer Ashley Butler

    not only is it payware but its actually quite expensive, 5 Euros for a car is more expensive than any RaceRoom content, much more than most of Simraceway and very close to iRacing. Not to mention rFactor 2 is in beta..Surely the devs would be against them making money off their game? Would quite like to see what ISI think to this.

    • Anonymous

      I payed 9 euros for the McLaren in Raceroom so how is this more expensive? Have you basic math knowledge to say the least?? I won’t buy it now Ill wait for the reviews and if it’s worth once rF2 is released I buy it. BTW the McLaren in Raceroom doesn’t come near the one in iRacing so I wasted 9 euros and it’s more expensive than the one in iRacing!

      • Anonymous

        you don’t pay 9 eur for the mclaren.it cost about 3 eur.don’t tell b…..t here.

      • somebody somebody

        The R3E McLaren costs 5.5 euros. Honestly, I don’t know if you are trying to spread BS or are a moron. I’ll put my money on you being a moron though.

      • Anonymous

        Lol! “basic math knowledge to say the least” you said? How about basic knowledge on how to type in spell and sentence structure? Don’t get mad, I’m only calling a duck a duck like you tried to someone else. Not good to flame people now is it? :-P

      • Big Ron

        I guess, SimBin made a good deal with you paying 9€ for the car while it is offered for the half.

      • http://www.facebook.com/magpieracer Ashley Butler

        As has been said the mclaren doesn’t cost 9 euros. I’m fully understanding of the pricing systems across the different simulations. A game made for people to make mods for should nt have mods that cost money.

  • http://twitter.com/TheRoggan Roger

    I don’t mind payware. Though I think its a little bit too expensive, if they where 3€ a pop it would have been an easier choice.

    I didn’t like the engine sounds from the video i saw earlier. This video is like a music video with hardly any interior shots and no engine sounds… (which are the two most important aspects for me).

    • http://www.facebook.com/john.lunsmann John Lunsmann

      3 cars for 10 euro is actually 3.33 euro each. Only 0.33 euro more than your prepared to pay? Ok then.

  • k m

    f**k this.. 10€ for 2 cars that arent even licensed ?!?

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hornbuckle1 Michael Hornbuckle

    Hahahahaha Good luck getting people to pay for an unlicensed mod that looks like it is floating above the track with no way to tell how it drives or even sounds. who do these guys think they are, iracing? The only thing I could tell from the vid above is that somebody has crappy taste in music.

    These guys have to know how much resistance the sim racing community will give this pay mod idea so I figured they would be showing off how much better a pay mod is than a free one. This looks no better than your average mod that gets downloaded, tried out for 20 mins and deleted.

    Please URD (i think thats the teams name) stick to rfactor and don’t bring this crap to Assetta Corsa. Better yet, if you just have to get paid how about getting a job in the industry.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      This is very close to flamebaiting, if not the very thing.

      It is one thing not to be in favour of payware mods, but any character assassinations or trolling will not be tolerated.

      I wish people could express themselves a bit better without all the drama.

      • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hornbuckle1 Michael Hornbuckle

        Flamebaiting???? Is that the same thing as talking down to anybody that doesn’t like pcars? (happens alot here for some odd reason)

        Not sure how anybody that doesn’t agree with you is a drama queen but whatever….I would love to know where I made a character assassination (lol) but not worth my time….Guess I shouldn’t post here unless I am in 100% agreement with you and it doesn’t look like that is happening anytime soon…..

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Here’s the thing Michael….. see, I know, I could have expressed your opinion in that post without coming across as abrasive as you did. So why couldn’t you ?

        Flamebaiting is writing stuff to incite an argument. I believe that post of yours qualifies. If you can convince me I’m wrong, I`ll own up to it.

        You seem to have this pre-conceived notion that I think everyone should agree with me. In fact this is nowhere near the truth. I would hate that.
        Also I never said or even hinted that anyone who doesn’t agree with me is a drama queen, nor did I call you one. You seem to be prone to interpreting things wrongly.
        Your post degrades the guy just because he is charging a few euros for his work. You laugh at him, ask him who he thinks he is, call his work crap, tell him he has a crap taste in music (as if that is even relevant!) and even hint that he might be in it just for the money. That’s not a bad assassination attempt right there.
        You seem to think you have me weighed up too but you don’t.

        I think people should express their opinion, whatever it is, with a bit more respect and tact than you did. Your post was like a bull in china shop.

        Your notion about pcars is totally groundless btw. Maybe you need to read the content of some of the pcars threads and see how much VR allows compared to other places. You may be surprised.

      • sargentjack86

        Is this what the website has become??? Accusing people of flaming because they have an opinion and are capable of articulating it??

        Sorry but going round accusing people of being “flamers” or “trolls” is pathetic. It is a childish terminology for people lack the vocabulary to properly communicate in the English language or just don’t have any intelligent response to make.

        You see it a lot here.

        I thought these attacks from the mods and fanboys were limited to the pCARS adverts but it seems the disease is spreading to other topics as well now.

        Voicing your opinion “will not be tolerated”. Sieg Heil.

        Personally I agree with everything Michael HornBuckle (great name btw) said and fail to see how he was “flamebaiting” (what a pathetic, childish term) or being unfairly rude to anyone.

    • MH

      I’m going to attempt a small friendly response here. Just correcting a few remarks you made.

      “unlicensed” – No license required.

      “no way to tell how it drives or even sounds”. – There has been a few news items posted on here with videos showing onboard footage with sounds.
      (ref: http://www.virtualr.net/t5-touring-car-series-for-rfactor-2-two-new-videos).

      I’m not for or against this mod, but i felt some of your points were a bit uninformed/unfair to them. Thanks.

      • Anonymous

        Funny how you’ve only linked VirtualR, please link to other popular sites, that are giving this group the time of day……..none.

      • MH

        That would be because it’s the easiest to link since i’m already here.

        5 seconds on google searching for this mod and i can find similar news articles on Race Department, Simnewsdaily and race2play…

  • http://twitter.com/chrisweez Chris North

    I wouldn’t mind paying for this mod if it’s really really good. As anyone tried this mod yet?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1711429307 Chris Wright

    Well the comments thus far tend to suggest that flogging car mods for $5 a piece is going to be an uphill struggle. As I’ve already said, this is just not engaging enough to be payware, as far as I’m concerned. Coming in the same week that ISI issues a wonderful, free, and licensed, Corvette, plus Simbin’s launch, I’d say these guys have an uphill struggle.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1064924995 Gabriele Bonora

      Totally agree Chris. They need to put more stuff on the table. I’m not against payware at all, but this content isn’t enough for 5 euros.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    I already voiced my opinion well enough before I think but I would love to know what ISI’s view is on this.

    Sure things like these have been done before, but what actually happened then was that the game was released as their own, with actual licensed content. Also €10 is way too expensive, take an example to the forks that were created by previous modding teams(like Reiza or simbin) they had far, far more content and that for a much fairer price.

    And then I dont even mention the fact that this is rF2, a game that is still in the beta stage(not trying to bash ISI here) with modding teams a bit in the dark of what to do with it.

    This is a dark page in modding history and I really hope no one is stupid enough to pay €10 for 3 ripped off cars from a real series with no idea of what they are actually looking at before buying, for a game which future is something one can only guess about.

    Also, how much does Zanoza get per sale?

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      You need to check what are youre worries actually. Most of the points youre doing here have nothing to do with you.
      Really dont be smart all over here. If that is to expensive, dont buy it.
      If you dont like it dont but and live with the desicion.
      If you think there will be more mods, wait for them and we will see what you will get.
      If you think our work and other modders work is noth worthed those few euros than you shouldnt play mods overall.
      Kid when you made youre first steps ive painted alrleady my first cars.
      In all those years i did alot in community for free. if i want to do more and i want to have this as my job to than ill go and take that way.
      If you think youre so smart than learn some modding and give something to the community not that youre ranting all the time here and complaining. Voice youre opinion if you think but im full if it actually by now.
      Racing community knows only about ranting, if its free or not, you allways have something to rant over modders, right now you see it becase of the money, if it would be free you would find something else.
      90% of people here are complaining and talking about end of modding on there own side they fail to deliver free mod in more than 2 years working on them allready and most of thim will still stay WIP. If that is want you want, fine, wait for all those mods but rant over us who actually deliver stuff in quality and right time!
      With such devotioin some here have complaining and going agains us you could do that years back and for sake stoped the damn ripped stuff and many modders would still work on free mods. Look around people, Check all the forums and site, really look at it, nobody is doing scratch made work anymore and those who do fail(with some really some exceptions that maybe deliver a car per year or maybe 2)! You all get just empty promises but thats all you get!

  • http://www.facebook.com/mazda.mps.1 Mazda Mps

    What worries me is that rF2 is not finished and who knows what ISI will change from now until release. Will URD update the mod when future builds are released? And if so, how would it be securely released to the people who have already paid?

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      This might be easy to answer already. I would guess that the mod would get updated and only the updated files will be distributed as a patch so unless you have the original it’s useless.
      People who think everything in sim-racing should be free will get it the same way they did if they ripped off the original.

  • Anonymous

    it will come dwn to word of mouth if you buy or not.

  • Explosive Face

    hahaha no

  • Anonymous

    Yup the price is just insane.

    Honestly I haven’t made my mind whether I’m in favor or against pay mods. Since I know well how much work a good mods is, I don’t think it’s a terrible idea. But the price per car has to be really, really low. 10 euros is completely bonkers, I would imagine 1-3 euros could work. Probably closer to 1 eh.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Can we settle on €2.50 ? :) I agree €5 is a tad over what it maybe should be.
      But only because I’m trying to factor in amount of sales multiplied by cost.
      100 people buying both cars is….€1000. Tidy.

  • Matt Orr

    Will I buy it?

    Nope.

    Why?

    Because what does this add? Is the track more lifelike? Weather more immersive (got wind)? Better physics? Better graphics? (I’ll give em this one, that said, ISI couldn’t make a quality 3D car if they had to it seems) Sounds? AI that isn’t the ISI norm of jam on the brakes at the apex yet exit same speed as you?

    Nope. Oh, and plus it’s fictional. I do wonder if ISI allowed use of their rFactor 2 logo.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Of course it’s fictional. Did you expect the poor guy to buy a licence from a manufacturer ? :)
      What other car mods add more wind, graphics etc. btw ?

      Some posts here make me smile I have to admit (not yours in particular). It’s like 1 guy who asks for €10 has caused the sim-community apocalypse all on his own.
      So many drama queens over a mod that you don’t even have to touch if you don’t want to.
      I wonder how Apple got free apps and paid apps to co-exist relatively peacefully in their App Store. Maybe we should ask them, get some tips etc.
      Or maybe it’s just some people who think every modder should work all their days for free that can’t accept parting with something the same price as a takeaway that’s gone in 10mins.

      • Anonymous

        People have completely normal reaction, I have no idea what makes you smile. Nobody’s saying we have to buy it, we all get it, WE ALL GET IT we don’t have to buy it, but we still have the right to give our opinion on it even if we’re not gonna buy it.
        If they sold their mods for 50 euros most people would make even harsher comments even if they realize they don’t have to but it because it’s a bit shocking.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Which is the most shocking, the fact that it’s payware or the amount he’s asking ?

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Should be both but even with 1 euro per car they would have to say something. Its in there nature. A mod just has to be free, no mather how many hours we spent on it.
        Its worthles work as long its payware. Its basicly what people are here saying.
        Lol, even with free mods they rant people over but i guess they like it free more overall, even if it stays as WIP mod only, its still free. They might never get it to drive it but its free.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        I don’t think they are saying its worthless because it’s payware.
        It’s the word ‘payware’ that seems to send shivers down spines.
        Some will spend a small fortune on wheels, pedals, rigs, triple monitors, button boxes etc. but when it comes to a few euro for a car model…. hehe no, that’s a step to far.

        Ales, I’m sure you have put much time and effort into these 2 cars but for what it’s worth, I have to side with those who think €5 per car is slightly on the high side. Are these the only 2 cars that complete this mod ? In the demo for example, I could never find the Bayro in the car list despite showing all car/all tracks. That wasn’t encouraging.
        I am not against payware at all. I don’t see it as a menace or something that will destroy the sim-racing community (how that is meant to happen I dunno). But for payware, the quality has to be there and the end user has to feel like they got their money’s worh.
        Having said that you cannot please everyone but at least you know that someone who takes the plunge to buy your stuff has an interest in it in the first place.
        I say good luck with it but maybe have a little rethink on your pricing scheme as a slight reduction may encourage more people.
        Just a thought.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        its a single car price for 5€ now, ive just posted somewhere up that will consider on going lover but on other hand when you buy 2 you get 3rd for free, im working on it hard but ive decided to get cars out now allready as they are finished. The price for single car was decision on some way over the months and that i have to start somewhere.

      • Matt Orr

        My point is this mod is nothing new at all. This is not exceeding the standards, this is not adding new functionality outside adding a not so fictional but fictional car.

        Look at Flight Simulator where payware is basically a requirement. And you know what? It’s worth it. More detail, extended functionality and in several cases new functionality.

        Remember Hudson Kerr? At the time he was well ahead of everyone in the sky texture area and got away with it for a while – as it was superior to anything else. Hell, Hudson ended up working (is he still?) for iRacing, so it wouldn’t be a first… But who here even remembers him?

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        What can I say ? Fair points.
        I think once you get into the realm of payware you are expected to deliver quality at least on par with some of the best mods out there, in terms of modelling, sounds and physics.
        I wouldn’t expect perfection or even something up the standard of the DRM mod, but if you can tell the guy has put some serious work and passion into it, I have no trouble giving him the money for a couple of drinks or a bit of shopping.
        If I find it disappointing and get a feeling I was ripped off, I`ll let it be known. So it works both ways.
        I certainly don’t subscribe to this notion of payware being a stab in the heart for the modding community. I think that is more than a little exaggerated to say the least.
        Maybe €5 per car is just a little higher than comfortable but it is up to the author to take a chance on his pricing as he knows it will affect his sales.
        I`d prefer to buy a complete mod rather than individual cars though but hey ho.

      • http://twitter.com/SeanvanderBurg1 Sean van der Burg

        Flight simulator addons are way more difficult to create and program, all gauges need to be done, animations, Hi-res textures etc. Many payware addon devs have visited a real plane for data and photos. This costs money and is the main reason for addons being payware. Most free addons are not based on photo material for cockpits. This comparison is unfair.

        In my opinion payware mods should be released as standalone games, as simbin for example started to do. More money can be made and the modding community will be left untouched. Modding has always been free, and it should stay like that. There are many modders showing some great free work, and if possible i will give them a donation. But let mods themselves be free.

      • Scott Ibbetson

        As far as flight sims go, I’ll use PMDG as an example, they re officially licensed by Boeing.

        However, a quick Google will show there’s freeware stuff out (for both flight sims and race sims) that does use photo realistic textures, they look and feel right, but they don’t have the name recognition of a known group.

        It’s like building a world beating supercar if you aren’t Ferrari or Porsche or Mercedes, it can be the best thing ever, but if you don’t have a name behind it, it won’t sell. Same with mods, an amazing mod could come out, but if it isn’t from a big group, nobody cares.

        Question, if CTDP (a group off the top of my head) had stayed a mod group and released the T5 mod, would people be complaining?

      • Scott Ibbetson

        You mentiiiond flight sims, I’m agreeing 100%, however you don’t see airlines or plane makers wanting to sue plane makers or painters in FSX though, if the sim racing mentality took hold in the FS community, there’d only be one or two payware teams and no repaints. There’s little to no exclusive licensing for flight sims, despite what the big publishers want, no Ferrari situation here, chances are if a plane exists, there’s a payware version with detail already out there, or a freeware version (which some are very, very good) out there.

        A look at my bank statement reveals I bought the following payware over the past month, simply because I feel it’s worth it.

        For instance, a plane that isn’t in my favorite flight sim by default, instead I read up on what PMDG (who are licensed by Boeing and work closely with them) did, I watched Youtube videos and I figured that paying $75 for their package is worth it, but they add in a lot to make it worth the money. I can take my chosen plane from London to NY starting it up from scratch with real world checklists, something I can’t do without mods. That, along with everything else PMDG add in, makes it worth $75. Just like I’d pay for Reiza’s stuff because I feel it’s worth paying for and I know GSC was good, therefore their other stuff can’t be worse.

        So, let’s suppose some modding team goes and makes a mod that uses McLaren’s tech data, has a license, models the car in lavish detail, has a written history, driver’s guide, a spec sheet and a getting started guide, would that be worth paying for?

        IMO, yes

      • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

        No problem that you share a different opinion F1Racer, but the way you voice it isn’t really mod worthy. And certainly not with calling “Apple” in it, we all know how that works on teh internetz.

        I have seen enough posts from you to know that what you are posting here is below your level and imo completely unnecesary, just because people are angered by this decision doesnt make them drama queens, and certainly it is situations like this that things get lost in translation and that emotions on the subject take over.

        I understand the reaction, that’s not the point, I do it myself all the time. But as a mod (in my opinion) you have to stay objective, and nice(with people testing your temper more than often) but calling people “drama queens” is not really a great way of voicing your opinion, certainly not with the post you replied to.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        I don’t think I do have to be objective as a mod and if I do then I would prefer not to be a mod.
        I think I can have my opinions just like anyone else and don’t have to adopt the neutral ground on subjects.
        Being nice is not so easy sometimes and there are times where you have to not be so polite.

        What’s wrong with my comparision with Apple ? Free stuff and pay stuff existing in the same arena. Fair comparison I think.

        When it comes to the drama, what else can you say. Sometimes people simply over-react on certain issues. Maybe that makes me over-react to them. If people object to this payware issue, thats perfectly fine. I’m ok with it as long as you are satisfied you get your moneys worth. It’s that simple for me. I don’t mind paying for my hobby. I would with any other hobby I have. Photography, astronomy, it all costs.

        But yeah, objecting is cool. But some people take it too far imo. Dark times ahead and all that. It’s a nonsense. If I’m wrong I`ll hold up my hands. What is there to be angry about ? If they haven’t bought it or felt they have been ripped off then what’s the problem? They are angry because he has the gall and audacity to ask for a small fee for his work ?
        Fine.. be angry but to exaggerate it to the point where the community is going to crumble down around us is being a bit dramatic.

        The only dark times will be for the mod author if his work doesn’t sell or if people try to bring out unlicenced stuff.

      • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

        The objective part isnt really the problem. Of course you are allowed to have an opinion. But to me, the term “drama queen” isn’t really something a mod should use.

        And well, about the apple part. People tend to take such things really seriously and start a flame war about it vs. Samsung etc. etc.

        The person you replied to did not exaggerate in any way. The questions he asked, although could maybe be typed in better chances, I think are questions that everyone has about this.

        This payware in modding isn’t really something you see every day and it is the first time it is done on this scale, so it isnt that weird at all for people to be angered or have questions about it.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        - OK well I think that’s enough of you telling me what you think a mod should and shouldn’t do. It’s not really your place to do that.

        - The Apple thing is fine and in no way an incitement for a flame war about Apple vs Samsung. And if someone was silly enough to start one, it would be stopped.

        - I didn’t accuse him of exaggerating (or call him a drama queen – note my words to him in reference to his post – ‘not yours in particular’)

        - Nope it’s not weird. It’s totally normal going by the sim-racing community history books. Change isn’t welcomed too readily sometimes. How you express that anger IS the issue though and I will bring anyone up on it if they fail to do so within normal posting guidelines.

        We’re done here.

  • http://www.redlinesimracers.net/ George RSR

    Too expensive!!! Only 2 types of cars in the entire mod and
    you want 5€ each car.

    5€ for the entire mod maybe…
    I would expect more for that price.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      You will get 3 cars for 10€. The 3rd one is beeing worked on right now and will be out as quick as posibile.

      • Anonymous

        great job ales.cant wait for the 3. one.but can you remove the big rf2 sticker in the cockpit. it is to big and to white :)

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Thank you.
        The cockpit sticker can be repainted, you can add youre name or what ever up there.
        Will be in template pack today/tomorow when I release it.

      • Anonymous

        the problem with the sticker is that it looks like it is in the air.and that looks wrong for me.i don’t know, i just have troubles with it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Its attached to the roll cage actually but will take a look on it for future update. I have some ideas what more to add to the cockpit to that ill update with 3rd car than.

      • Anonymous

        thanks ales

  • traind

    I am happy to pay for a quality mod… after all, isn’t that essentially what we have done with GSC to a certain degree? But they have some licensed content and, of course, great quality.

    But the price of this does seem high unless is it just a fantastic drive… which I can’t comment on because I have not tried it.

  • Anonymous

    Has ISI made statement on this?

    I think these guys are playing in dangerous waters, I mean it doesn’t take genius to figure out its just debadged bmw and audi dtm. What if someone from Audi, BMW or DTM sees this and sends nice lawsuit which could trickle down and ruin rest of modding scene.

    Lets face it rfactor has been the wild west when it comes to user content and I think we are lucky that no manufacturer has come after lot of mods.

    Lets not forget that recently Enduracers 997 Cup mod never got released for that exact reason.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Ooooh yeah. ISI are going to go craaaaazy now !!! We’re all doomed as ISI pull the plug on rF2 in rebellion. Kill the infidel !! :)

      • Anonymous

        What? I am actually being serious whats stopping SMS from contacting Audi about this. Since SMS has Audi DTM license this is potential sale loss. Didn’t they do the same thing about Enduracers Porsche mod?…….

        Also it doesn’t bug me at all that they are charging money for this mod, nobody is forcing me to buy it and at end its all up to individual.

      • MH

        SMS haven’t got the Audi DTM license… Yet…

        It is on their wish list though.

      • Anonymous

        I have no doubt they will get it, they had Audi in Shift.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Markus-Ott/100000878526131 Markus Ott

        EA had Audi in Shift. SMS had nothing until pCARS development bgan.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        I think it’s a little different. Enduracers called their Porsche a Porsche and it was livery correct too.
        I think in this case the car is a bit different, the livery and name are ficticious. A practice you see in pCARS at least until licences are got. But what if they aren’t ? Will SMS pull the car from the game ? Likely not.
        So there must be that loophole.

  • bduddy

    I have no problem with pay mods. Is this mod specifically worth the price they want? I don’t know, I don’t have rF2. What I do have a problem with, and what I think people should have a problem with, is charging for cars that are blatant copies of real cars. If you’re going to charge for something, make it your own content or something you have permission to use, not obvious DTM cars where you removed the logos and went “lol totally original!!!!1″

  • Anonymous

    I wonder what Audi and Bmw would think about this ?

    • Anonymous

      If they wanted to get paid they should have thought about that sooner. Copyright is a funny thing when it comes to games. Look at the Asanos in pCARS… ;)

      • Anonymous

        Yes but thats not a public release sort of as of yet ,by the time the world at large will see it I am sure Audi will be on board with pcars

      • Anonymous

        I wouldn’t be so sure. Many of the cars and tracks will stay as they are, I’d be willing to bet. The funding for the project is limited by the investors already in the project. We’ve already voted to not let in new investors just because or to grab licensing when we already have the content.

  • Anonymous

    If and when the time comes for rF2 payware; my cash will be going to Feels3 and Tuttle first and foremost, as a donation, not to a specific product. For they are the people (and those yet to come) who are making a comprehensive difference to the rF2 community.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      That’s fair enough and they deserve it too !
      I wonder though if their work had been release as payware, if there would have been a similar reaction still.

  • http://derekspearedesigns.com/ Derek Speare

    I’m in and United Racing gets 10 Euros from me!

    • Joe Grover

      They get my money as well.

    • Realkman666

      Is it good?

  • somebody somebody

    LMAO. 10 euros for a shitty mod thats no where near the level of quality from all the other mods out there. Come back to me when DRM, FArmaroli, Enduracers, etc. cost money.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      What guality youre talking about now here actually? Becase a mod is not DRM, FArmaroli or Enduracers youre saying its shitty right away? You need to open up there dont just rant over some work you aparently didnt tryed even.

      • somebody somebody

        LOL. I tried the Beta/Preview/Whatever, apparently you guys even got the transmission sounds wrong, just imagine what other teething problems your mod will have.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        aparently you dont really follow our progress and youre just beeing smart here. If i made mistake i made it, fixed it, so? where is the problem, did you get the mixed up file maybe or something? Plus the mixed file wasnt in the beta even, it was in one some video preview. I guess youre world completly broke down that day.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Or maybe he corrected that after it was pointed out ? Which, if I remember, he did acknowledge when someone mentioned it.

  • Anonymous

    Will a refund or trial system is too complicated to program for this kind of payware? I don’t think I will consider to purchase it unless the review is so good, or I can refund it or at least try it for even a short period of time like 10-20 minutes

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      I dont see how a refund system can work once you actually have the models.
      Sometimes you have to take chances in life. The only way would be to offer some kind of a limited demo beforehand.

  • http://twitter.com/WallyMasterson Wally Masterson

    A paid mod would have to be as good a quality as the original game content, if not better, before it would be worth buying. You should be able to try before you buy in some way, not just rely on others opinions and videos, just like games with demos or shareware with trial periods. I don’t mind the idea of compensating people for time and effort, but only for a good quality product. But even having said that, I doubt I would ever pay for a mod like this, unless my local league was running a season with it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      There is a beta/demo from Aura model. It wasnt final version and cockpit was missing but main point was to show the physics where we go and model quality exterior.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Karol-Gronowski/100001185339304 Karol Gronowski

    Interesting thing :) Selling mod for unfinished product. Are they going to release new version for customers with every isi update?

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      Not every ISI update needs new mod build to. Sofar allmost none was needed.

  • Hans

    MODS have to be available for free. Thats it… Everything else will kill the community, so pls dont buy this!

    And in addition: The beta mod felt pretty shitty, though. no comparison to the physics of an isi car. Not worse the money IMHO.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      why exactly do mods have to be free?
      Well really guys im not asking anybody to do it better or what ever but go and atleast try to manage something and we will see how far you will come actually.
      There is no way mods should allways be free, you seem to be to spoiled and youre actually demanding that we need to work for free so you can have youre joy! Its a shame actually that youre so spoiled.
      I want to have cinemas free wich give me maybe and i say maybe a good movie to look at for 2 hours i have to pay 5 euros and up plus some drink and popcorn. Hmm, maybe a six pack or cigaretes should be free to.
      Its really end of the world when we do something for you and ask for few bucks, for youre fun that brings you hours of enjoyment.

      • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

        There would be no modding community at all if everyone had your attitude.You quite happily use other peoples free mods for your own entertainment but want to be paid for your own.

        You’ve quite simply, already divided the rfactor2 community before its even got it’s feet under the table.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Not really, becase rf1 is full of mods or gtr2 it doesnt mean the future will look like that and this has nothing to do with the attitude i have. It has to do with the amount of work that people cant handle anymore in free time.
        Beside ripped content from other games there are like none scratch made mods anymore and you should check that around and you will see that this is the case for years now allready.
        Im saying like none wich gives you few cars per year maybe and many just announc it and its quickly what is left actually. Few screens around the forums and never sees the light of the game or the end usser actually.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        How do you know he wouldn’t quite happily pay for other peoples mods if they charged for them ?

        The community is no more divided on this issue than on any other that there are two sides to. No more that the division between those that like rF2 and those that don’t.

        You make it sound like this one guy on his own has, in under 24 hrs, ripped the rf2 community apart and those divisions will remain causing people to were friends, to now fall out…. yada yada yada

        If he has divided anything, it is opinion, and THAT isn’t anything new in the sim-community. In fact that is what seems to keep it going.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        That’s hard to argue with. I think we are spoiled and I readily include myself in that. Maybe it’s time we really showed our supposed undying respect for the modders by rewarding them for the work they give us.

        If all mods were a small fee maybe my rF1 Gamedata folder wouldn’t be 80Gb !! But the someone will argue that with the money I’ve ‘saved’ I can buy another HDD :)

  • SandboxDenmark

    @ URD

    Nice job!

  • Anonymous

    there is nothing wrong paying for a mod , there is nothing wrong with a free mod … but paying for a mod that looks like a real world manufacturers car can create problems for the free modding community ; many companies let fanware pass by as it isnt generating an income based on there corporate image ; call the mod what you like but at one glance your brain says BMW … if it was free there wouldnt be an issue but its not , this in my honest opinion is the thin end of the wedge …

    • http://twitter.com/altrezia Alex Ball

      Ha, tell that to the pCARS guys….

  • MarcG

    Is there a demo available ? Would prefer to try before I buy

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      The was a beta released for free. Try here… http://www.virtualr.net/t5-touring-car-series-for-rfactor-2-beta-released

      Not sure how much has changed between then and now.

      • MarcG

        yeah been reading about changes since that Beta so that wont be a proper representation of the final released Pay for mod, therefore a better more upto date Demo or something will have to do for me.

  • http://twitter.com/Uff182 Andrea Candini

    I see a lot of comments about paying 5€ for a car… well, as the news reports it actually is 3,3€ for a car if you purchase the full package, considering that you’ll receive the third one for free.
    Ok, it’s true that you pay for something that still doesn’t exist, but it’s very likely you’ll receive it soon (I haven’t heard anything about the world ending tomorrow, fingers crossed :D ).

    • Anonymous

      You’re only buying one car, right? These cars should have identical physics, assuming they’re accurately mimicing DTM. Just slapping on different cockpits, headlights, and grilles.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      “I haven’t heard anything about the world ending tomorrow”

      That’s cos the world ended last December on the 21st, remember ?
      Oh no wait, the meltdown was a moment after 31st December 1999 as the Y2K bug caused that worldwide meltdown.. ah no wait.. hmmm.. no maybe you’re right, payware is here so it must be tomorrow. Oh well, off to my bunker AGAIN ! :)

  • Big Ron

    I am very fine with paying for mods if the value for money is good. I don´t see why I shouldn´t support someone when he spend month for creating content from scratch and giving the game new qualities. If the quality is high, why not?

    But I am a bit sceptical if 5€ isn´t too much for a single car. I would be much more convinced, if the cars would be offered for 1 or 2€ since it would show that the modder don´t want to get rich, but the mass of people would be convinced and willing to pay the price and the modder would get a handful of money nevertheless.

    I mean, having 200 people buying the cars for 1€ each would make 400€ for a hobby which is a lot better than having 20 people paying 5€ each and feeling ripped off.

    • Anonymous

      but ron,ales do that full time, its not a hobby for him any more.maybe the prices will change in the future.i support him for getting fast as possible hq content in a first class sim like rf2.

      • Big Ron

        I think, even if he does it for living now, as long as the value for money is ok, I see nothing wrong there. But still, I also hope the price is changing to the better.

        Also I find it nice that a modder tried to make something fictional which doesn´t come across totally off (yeah, we know what the car´s origin was :) )

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Yes, ive sayed i will never go over 5 per car and buying more will allready drop the price and ive sayed to few times that i will consider on going lower if the sales are right. Im aware its not really cheap but its not again the worlds end and anybody who can afford a game and all the hardware needed right now for the game should be capable of paying that, offcourse only if he needs it and if this is what he needs/want.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        “i will consider on going lower if the sales are right.”

        I see what you’re saying but what it the sales aren’t right because of the current pricing ? What if they needed to be a little lower to make them right with more people being encouraged to buy.
        Payware is new now and I think it needs to start off easy and ease people into the idea as opposed to a price that already might but a few people off. Granted the price isn’t astronomical and and least people can spend on only 1 car to try it out before getting the other.

        I guess this is the litmus test.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Will think about it for sure. Well actually here and there today it happened that somebody buyed 1 car and gave him both to allready. But this was quick random desicion i did it, not that everyone will take me on that now.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Maybe best to keep that quiet :)

      • Anonymous

        Whether or not Ales does it full time really doesn’t affect the value for the users, does it? All it affects is his own expectations of how much money he needs to generate.

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Totally agree with this. The first paragraph says it all. If it’s value for money then whats the problem ? Buying it is optional too. We can’t expect everyone to work their asses off for free, forever, surely. Doing it just for the passion alone sometimes isn’t enough, especially in this economy.

  • Anonymous

    I get the price concern. I’m guessing URD doesn’t have any particularly specific data about DTM cars (sorry, the ‘T5 touring car series’) that would seem to justify a slightly higher price than even an iRacing car which does get the manufacturer data. Maybe they do, but what? Aero info? Suspension geometries? Engine dyno curves?

    Maybe it’s a completely fictitious car designed ‘in the style of’ a super tourer, but if that’s the case why ape the visual design of an actual series and give it different performance?

    I’m also not sure why it being three cars is considered to make each car cost 1/3rd the asking price. Assuming T5 is DTM, then all three would be identical except for the 3D model, which itself is mostly identical as well. Unless you’re paying the vehicle manufacturer (which clearly isn’t the case) I don’t see why the same car with a different skin would be worth the same amount of money as the first skin. Unless you’re saying the 3D design is worth more than the physics underneath, in which case why drive this instead of the ISI officially licensed Audi? I suppose if you’re a fan of the other two manufacturers, but then again you’re still paying €10 for 1 car with three bodies.

    I get why people aren’t up for paying iRacing prices for something lacking everything iRacing uses to justify their prices with. No license, no manufacturer data. Where is the value?

  • Juhan Voolaid

    If I would want to buy only BMW car, but want to race where there are BMW and Audi cars, do I have to buy Audi too?

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Yes. Otherwise your game will not display the car properly. Someone correct me on this if I’m wrong.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tiago-Guerreiro/1426133677 Tiago Guerreiro

    3º car will be free of charge if you buy the 10 euro pack…..SO ….the price per car will be like….3.33333 euros…. actually dont think is expensive!!!!

  • Damian Sieradzki

    Well they didn’t considered better solution – pick a price! This is what Keith Merrow did with his music. You can download it for free or You can pay whatever you think it’s worth. People would pobably download mod for free and if they would like it, they’d go back and pay for it just to say “Thank You”. This is how I did with Keith Merrow’s music and this is what I would probably do with this mod. For now I will not buy it for sure, just because it harms all the racesim community

    • Anonymous

      There was a company that tried that system a while back for indie music. It seemed to work alright, though the company doesn’t seem to be operating anymore.

      • somebody somebody

        If you are referring to Bandcamp then no, they are alive and kicking.

      • Anonymous

        No, I was referring to Song Slide. Showed you how much went to the artist and how much was kept as the royalty fee for the website. Was a cool idea, just don’t think they had enough volume to keep it up.
        http://www.freakonomics.com/2007/03/29/how-much-for-that-song-its-up-to-you/

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Markus-Ott/100000878526131 Markus Ott

    “rF2 will offer a wide range of free mods of all kind of cars.”
    And this is the slap in the rF2 defenders face right before the game even was released. A revelation how difficult it is to create quality content nowadays even for an outdated game like rF2, and the biggest argument for rF2 gets destroyed. I can understand why rF2 fanboys rage now. Not a ton of mods with Ferraris and Porsches for free.
    Let’s face the fact. AC and pCARS will deliver higher quality in everything over this mod and both will not cost more than 50 euros. For 50 euros you’d get only 10 T5 mod cars. Without any track. Hell yeah, seems pretty legit that 5€ for a single car are justified, isn’t it? :)

    Keep on doing your work URD. Sting that spine into the flash of the rF2 believers.

    • Clutch Norris

      Every time i read you i fart.

      • nameless

        Indeed, its always the same immature, senseless babbling.

    • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

      Oh gawd. :D

  • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

    Some people dont seem to get it.

    Its not about the price, and not about how good or bad it is. Its not about wether you want this or not.

    Its about what it will do to the modding community, and the relationship with legit publishers. Its about losing the ” tolerated ” status of modding.

    In an already divided community, Money will destroy what is left of it. It will be only a matter of time before the first mod team wars break out when some idiot feels that because of his revenue , another modder should not do the same for free. It will be a matter of time before somebody tries to retail something created by another team. or tries to block a mod coming out because of this insanity.

    What would stop a person from ripping an unlicenced mod, change the tires and put it up for sale again… we could go on like this for hours…. But the most important issiue is what it will do to Real modding teams, and Real publishing companies.

    Why would teams like REIZA try to build a legit company, when every clown can open his own illegal shop?

    Why would companies allow, and build mod friendly products, when it would just corrupt their own market?

    It wont take long before modders would be perceived as piirates as far as racing sim producers and branding companies are concerned. If this goes the wrong way, modding will not longer be allowed, every intelligent person should realise , you just cant set any trading, tax , and legal rule aside, and just make some free money. I dont know how it works in the rest of the world, but in this part its called ” Fraude ”

    In the end the modding scene will be killed by a bunch of lazy opportunists, out for a easy dollar.

    Modding is a passion for motorsport enthusiasts.. Modding is a tolerated art form. Modding is a free community gift to the sim world. I will not be liked for saying so, but the sooner someone puts a stop to this, the better it will be for what is left of our little community. If people feel they should generate an income for what they do, then as in the real world you should find a job. The Sim industry helped allot of community people into the industry. Look at Simbin , SMS, Reiza , iRacing and so on … lets hope they still will when we are branded ” Parasites “

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      Can’t say I agree with everything you’ve said as predicting the outcome of all of this is not a certainty, but, damn, at least you expressed it well. Thank you !!

      • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

        anyway.. i will leave it to that. As you say, i expressed my opinion. I strongly believe this will change the mod scene, and it will not be for the better. But as i stated before. i might be totaly wrong,..

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      The ones that release or do nothing are the loudest ones just becase some WIPs are showed to the community that he is part of a team.

      Way to go, few years are gone and WIPs are only thing that you showed and a mod to a game was promissed that will never happen.

      Youre talking here about stuff and making youre self a clown actually. You support and put every news of hardware mods actually on youre site wich cost hundrets of dollars but ranting here over digital mods for few bucks.

      • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

        you make my point… you dont have a clue of what i am talking about. This has nothing to do with personal interest, but what it will do to the collective. Lets just hope i am a clown and wrong on all sides. Thats the best thing that could happen, and i wont be afraid to admit i was wrong, but i really doubt that will be the case.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        @Ales, you did miss his point a bit.

        Lets not turn this into a slanging match guys.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Yes i missed it but he should as a modder and part of something they fail to do actually understand us to.
        I know Arnold for many years and i know how much he worked on to for something he loves to do and that he wich WSGT2 as a team never sayed had to “abandon” for a while to.

      • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

        I hope sometime someone rewards you for what you like doing, but iin my opinion,the way you want it to happen now will wreck more then its worth. If this should succeed, it will be the end of modding as we have known it. Some might think that is a good thing, but lost will rapidly see that it will not be without concequences.

        Lets just have a mature discussion about this… What do you think will happen to the mod scene if for some reason it does not go wrong ?

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        I was just telling you that modding as it was and you might now is allready gone. Ive sayed you seem to be still sitting in 2005.

      • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

        Well , we both shared our opinions. Time will tell if its for better or for worse.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Simons/100000425606142 Matt Simons

        I cannot see this going well.This financial model is ask for specific payments on an unlicensed product which infringes on the IP of the manufacturer and DTM.

        What will happen is the manufacturer lawyers will go through the modding community and shut it down.

        I used to do graphics for Batracer and saw exactly what the results were when Ferrari’s lawyers served cease and desist notices. No matter it is 100% of you own work be it mesh or a drawing it is still a depiction of IP, one that is instantly recognizable. in batracers instance the only money changed hands is a donation to the general game not to unlock any specific model or series likeness. Ferrari in their notice specifically stated that any likeness in the design is a breach of IP. Every manufacturer/rights holder has this right.

        Til now the manufacturers have ignored the modding community as there has been no attempts (to my knowledge) to make money from these ventures. However once an attempt is made they will want their slice of the action and quite rightly so.

        I would certainly recommend speaking to a copyright lawyer before releasing.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001807455876 Robert Gödicke

        “What will happen is the manufacturer lawyers will go through the modding community and shut it down.”

        This is actually my biggest concern. And sooner or later, this will happen. With money being involved, it’s much more likely to alert the lawyers of the IP holders than it was before (Enduracers Porsche mod was not tolerated even though it was not commercial).

        Now, of course URD has branded their cars differently and the series itself. Officially, it’s not a DTM mod, and it features an Aura and a Bayro. But when thinking back some time, I do remember an ambitious project of a german game developer in 1998/1999. Synetic was working on N.I.C.E. 2. It featured a huge amount of cars, and they looked amazingly good and very close to their real life counterparts (considering the technical limitations back then). Synetic released a demo were you were able to drive a Dodge Viper RT/10. The thing was, Synetic didn’t have any licences from all cars manufacturers featured in their game except for the Citroën 2CV. The rest is history.
        Synetic not only had to remove the logos from the cars and rename them (for example, VW Käfer -> Kugelblitz GTI), they also had to reshape all cars. I mean, even using so low polycounts back then you easily recognized the cars. Still, Synetic had to reshape all of the cars due to an IP infringement.

        Now, looking at the T5 series, they look very good. That’s a compliment, and I really mean it. But considering the fact that over 10 years ago, where a whole car had as much triangles as a rear view mirror today, a company was forced to reshape the cars… I believe it’s more than likely this could happen to unlicensed mods as well if they are that close to a real life car/series.

        The problem with this is, a company can be sued, but this had no influence on other titles of course. In the modding community, this could start a hunt for hundreds of lawyers. I’m not saying it will, but it could. And if this will happen one day, modding as we knew it, will be gone. That’s what Wim means I think.
        When Enduracers where prohibited to release their Porsche Cup mod, I already thought that this would be the end. First, Porsche reaches out to shut down all mods including Porsches, then other manufacturers become aware of this and could start with this as well.

        Modding was and is a tolerated art form. Modders were more or less “flying below radar” and not hunted down because they meant no harm. No harm in, like, they didn’t make any profit with their work, so they didn’t earn money with the intellectual property of the car manufacturers.

        I know that the T5 series in this particular case is not the DTM, but I have no idea if this is 100% bullet proof.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Whatever happens modding will never be gone. It might not be as it is now, but not gone. It’s only gone when modders want to stop modding.
        Maybe Ales can send a picture of the Bayro to BMW and ask them what they think and if they are ok with it. Or what changes should be made to it to make it ok with them ?
        Then same with Audi and Merc. If they all come back with a green light then no-one else need worry, most of all Ales.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Simons/100000425606142 Matt Simons

        I would not be 100% sure on that. If the manufacturers go to war on this, they could quite easily take action against the publishers who are distributing open platforms. As has been done in the past against programs that themselves do breach any IP but allow the action of breeching eg the old p2p programs. If I can see that precedent I am sure some corporate lawyer can also and quite frankly this would be their easiest route. There is plenty of evidence to back this up.

        If that happens, modding is dead.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Modding can always go underground if this doomsday ever came.
        It can’t be stopped, just like movie/game piracy. But thats me being a drama queen :)

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        True, but the difference with hardware mods is they don’t have the potential to cause legal issues if it gets out of hand as Wim suggests.

        Pricewise, sure, it is hard to argue against spending a few euros on a mod against spending hundreds on the hardware.

        It’s a sensitive topic and people are very opinionated on it one way or the other. But you knew this was coming, right ? :)

        I would like to see freeware and payware work well side by side without stepping on manufacturers toes. Some just question that that can even happen.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        True again but still i have rights to my 3d art concept and overall this is nothing else. If this would be overall issues than all the sites with 3d models would actually be closed allready. Im using something done completly from scratch, if it resembles something similar in the world its nothing wrong, im not copy paste it but ive still build it.
        Look at real replica cars, isnt the UK, Europe and Us full of it actually to? It doesnt do any damage so it doesnt here and its the case and its our work.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        We have talked about it allready, you see it that, i see it diferent.
        I cant agree on you but you missed our point to. How ever it is youre talking about modding like we were still in 2005, look and check, really check around, its far what it was.

      • Matt Orr

        Yea, it’s in many ways much better. It’s easy to see who is who and has what priorities.

        But hey, it’s 2005. So I am eagerly awaiting any Simbin release, playing NR03 while still flogging the hell out of the Panoz LMP07 (you know, the car that was promising the world and basically killed Panoz in the end) in the SCC mod for F1C.

        While I’m not awaiting Simbin’s stuff, I am awaiting Reiza’s. Reiza may I remind you, is Simbin 2.0 – an elite community group gone commercial.

        While I’m not playing NR03, I am playing iRacing. May I remind you, iRacing is very much tied to NR03 in a bajillion ways.

        While I’m not flogging the Panoz, I’m having a blast with the M1 Turbo in the DRM mod. May I remind you, both mods are installed for going above the standard.

        Maybe we ARE in 2005 still, but your attitude isn’t? Maybe you got lost in the “RELEASE DATE PLZ” crap in favor of going “on demand” type style. That’s cool. Perfection takes time. Some get it, some don’t – do not take this as a comment on the quality of your mod, merely as a statement of patience in this community. I’ll still be gladly waiting for Prototype C in rFactor 1 when it comes out in 5 years. I have plenty of time. We have plenty of time. My world doesn’t stop because I can’t try out the WSGT2 TSO20. Most of us have patience and can wait. Just because it isn’t as easy as in 2005 doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

        But I’ll tell you this seeing how you don’t want to get it. People aren’t hating the pay aspect. People are hating the content versus cost. Getting someone to open their wallet for INDIVIDUAL content is much harder than an entire package. Sit on it a while. Build content, including tracks, make a break for it and put it on the market. Seek licenses.

        I support sim racing. When Simbin went commercial, I supported it. When Reiza did the same, I supported it. If RMT wants to give it a whirl, I’ll probably support it if it is a package. None of those will get my money on an individual piece of content.

        Oh, I forgot one modder gone commercial – CTDP. Anyone remember Superleague Formula? Sadly that was sorta doomed from the start, but that is not because of quality.

        (Why am I at iRacing then btw? Structure. Purely structure.)

        inb4peoplebitchaboutthislongpost.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        No Wim, sorry but really, do you actually see what youre telling here and what do new games offer to? So you think that somebody that is actually making millions will get first one away with it actually and modders who do less damage or none will get more problems over that?

      • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

        Hooo Ales, on your webpage on the Projects tab, you have spelt “with” as “whit”.

        Just sayin’

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        thx, i was looking for that problem allready.

    • Anonymous

      “It will be a matter of time before somebody tries to retail something created by another team.”

      Sim Raceway says ‘hi’!

      • Matt Orr

        lol. Post of the year for all of 2013 for sure!

    • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

      It almost felt like you spoke my mind Wim. +1

    • suprdevil

      “What would stop a person from ripping an unlicenced mod, change the tires and put it up for sale again… we could go on like this for hours…. But the most important issiue is what it will do to Real modding teams, and Real publishing companies.”

      um, yeah, this has already been happening to free mods for some time. The result? We’ve already lost a bunch of talented modders because they were tired of their stuff getting ripped and re-released. So that argument seems invalid to me. Ask CSGT why they’re not making an updated version of their 1970 WSC mod for rF2. I know I would HAPPILY pay upwards of $50 for it if they did. So instead, we end up with Forza and Shift rips, released as real mods for rF and GTR2, and heap praise upon those “modders,” while real modders continue to leave the community.

      TOP-QUALITY, FULL-BLOWN, SCRATCH-MADE PAY-WARE MODS FTW!

    • Skarakoska

      Is this so hard to understand? I agree with Wim…great post!

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominguezolaondo David Dominguez Olaondo

      90% of modders are already pirates. Where do you live? Why to worry about potential problems (which is still your view anyway) when we have already enough bad things to worry about? What is doing the modding community, the racing passionates as you say, to battle against those mod rippers? Ah yeah, probably taking fun driving those illegal cars in some awesome illegal circuits.

      But yeah let’s only kill the guy who wants to take some profit of his own work.

      • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

        you have a few good points there, but hardly have anything to do with what i stated in my comment..

    • Anonymous

      This has been bubbling along all the while, hasn’t it? I’ve been concerned (and surprised at peoples’ complacency) a long while – especially since DLC started getting important. That and modders getting precious and possessive about the delusion of “all my own work”…… [It might by 'your' Shell logo, but it's a Shell logo; it's a Ferrari car; it's *the* Indianapolis racetrack; it's Michael Schumacher's race helmet; it's some band's classic song.........all my own work, indeed.]

      The same pressure pushing modders to charging a la DLC is the same as drives the owners of the real stuff, and other commercial suppliers of DLC. As modders and commercial suppliers are now competing on the same ground for the same audience’s dollars, well……the original IP holders and commercial suppliers of DLC (who are paying licences!) aren’t going to like it, are they?

      I raised this about SimRaceWay when they were bragging about how many cars they were *exclusively* licencing. (An ‘exclusive’ licence isn’t worth a lot if any old Joe Schmoe is allowed to break it, right?) To be fair, I’ve never heard SRW complain about any free mods. But if a mod existed and was being charged for……who knows? I bet any luxury brand (which means every car you’d ever likely want in a game) is fairly ruthless about protecting its IP. Probably few people at Porsche, Audi, Ford etc took sim-racing very seriously until only recently. They’re surely far more au fait with it now – especially as it’s potentially a very lucrative income source and advertisment.

      I think it’s downhill from here……..the Big Boys are entering the game.

  • Scott

    Is there a Virtual cockpit? And can we see it ?

  • Keiko

    I see the problem modders have. They like creating tracks/mods but then need to start earning money for themselves. Some find jobs in game industry, other meybe get totally unrelated jobs. Those who can’t find any job appropriate for them or any job at all, those are forced to make money on their hobby. It’s just obvious, they use the tools they know of to survive. I don’t blame them. People are just a product of their environment, so why the heck blame the people. Look and study at situation(economy), learn some facts and you’ll know why it came to that situation.

    Problem is, there’s less and less jobs availible, people look for familiar alternatives to make a living, and some just love their hobby and would like to earn money with that so they don’t need to go to stressful jobs.

    I suggest modders to educate them-selves about other things important for life, much more important than modding itself. Meybe then you can learn to live in compassion with the game(rF2) and not be dependent on it. One thing I can assure you, doing mods(or anything else for that matter) for free will always be more fun and respected than selling it to other people.

    I would like people would keep making tracks and mods for free, you too right? In order to have people who will be happy to make things availible for free, they first need to meet their own needs(for love, compassion, to have housing etc.) in order to grow up into more compassionate human. There’s really no good or bad people. They’re all perfectly adjusted to where they are coming from and they use the tools they know of to ”survive”.

    Not saying this for modders but for everyone. Try look at the ‘whole’ picture(question everything) no matter what you’re dealing with in life. You never see the whole picture, by educating yourself about different things, you can only try to understand it better.

    Cheers

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.shears.37 Steve Shears

    This price really needs to be brought down. I really appreciate the work mod do, and i can’t do it but nevertheless its way to expensive. A real shame as its more expensive then most car packs. I hope those that buy it get full enjoyment off it though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jorge-Araujo/100000064250617 Jorge Araujo

    No way that I would pay for a mod. Payware mods killed the creative Flight Simulator community. It’ll be the last nail on the coffin of this dying community.

    • Anonymous

      I never heard about it killing flight sims (though I was only a casual flight simmer decades ago). I always saw the payware stuff as INCREDIBLY detail oriented stuff that usually had very small volume of downloads but was far better content than the base content from any of the sims.

      I thought the super small niche just caused the major players (MS) to get out of the market because the volume was too small.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000119964258 Tomas Beha

    I’m interrested to see how long it’ll take before this gets “converted” to free (pirated) content – NOT that I support that, I just don’t see how they can prevent it ?

  • http://twitter.com/Martin_Keets Martin Keets

    Can anyone that actually has the mod please provide some feedback? want to know whether to buy. Thanks

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.almiron.58 David Almiron

    Sorry for my english, but I’ll try to give my opinion:

    Tried the demo and thought it was good, I missed grip and improved physics model but good and sound great, imagine that gold has better physics, I hope so. – Think expensive 5 euro for 1 car, but I agree that if it is good and other mods come with quality so we can pay for them. I find it hard to come up with ISI F1 mod and track package 2013 or a modder do I pay for a full mod and F1 tracks.

    I think we should rethink this amount, $ 1 is getting cheap mod, do not think that divide the community, my opinion

  • BLuNT318742

    I didn’t even have to write anything. ISI also mentioned in a thread that the modder is soley responsible for what they release etc. So this guy wants to be paid for unlicensed content, and there were people here (2) that claim to have bought it, lol. While ISI gives us a “free” licensed Corvette.. How odd some people are in this world lol. I already see this “mod” hosted for free, so whatever.. Good luck mang

    • Pablo Coronel

      To pick up the ISI’s Corvette first you must buy rF2 so technically both aren’t free, also they are diferent cars one are kind of DTM’s and other is a GT2 Corvette, is a huge diference.

  • Anonymous

    Reading a few of these responses just makes me go ‘Wow!’.
    I knew that the community could be bad but not in this scale.

    There is not much for me to say what others have already said, but still a lot of people acting like it is the doomsday of free modding which is not only false but also frankly a rather ignorant and stupid position in my opinion.
    And then there are people who say it is too expensive and some even goes so far as asking ‘how dare you ask us for money for your work’?

    It is not the doomsday of free modding, there are established teams who have stated that they will not charge for their work.
    Secondly if you think it is too expensive or questions the very notion that someone can charge for mods, one has to remind ourselves that this is a first for simracing.

    No modder has ever charged for their work (in a legal way), no notion on price/demand exists so it has to start somewhere. Over time prices might go down or up depending on the market. That’s how it works in real life and if you don’t want to pay the price you can always choose not to buy, simple as that.

    This will be a new interesting chapter for the simracing community, looking forward to follow it :)

    • Joe Grover

      There are others who charge. I bought 3 rF2 cars online. They were, well let’s just say, not as good as they could have been. LOL… Am I all pissed off and up in arms about it? No. I won’t buy other cars from that website but I’m not going out an slandering them either. I spent a little money on a few marginal cars. So what.

      • Anonymous

        Not sure what you mean by your response, I am all in for payware mods as long as they are in terms of what I would call legal.
        Legal that is to say they have a license for the cars and have done them from scratch.

      • G8John

        How does that affect the impression from driving ?

      • Anonymous

        Whether the payware mods are good or bad in terms of quality is up to the buyer.
        I only stated that I think that payware mods are new to this community and that they:
        1) Won’t divide the community.
        2) Are a subject of price/demand.

      • Joe Grover

        Sorry. I missed the “(in a legal way)” part. I’ll blame it on the massive cough and cold syrup. Climbing back in my cave now.

      • Anonymous

        No problem :)

  • G8John

    Well actually the concept itself is not new. Its been presented about 3 years ago and at least with not fictional “AURA”, “BAYRO” (???) vehicles but with real car names at http://www.sim-dream.com

  • http://www.redlinesimracers.net/ George RSR

    As soon as you ask for money, (making profit) you open the
    eyes (bring to their attention) of the licence holders (car manufactures or
    race series disciplines). That is what could hurt the Modding community. The Mod
    makers have generally been ignored as the product is not being sold so there is
    no financial benefit. I hope these payed
    Mods don’t start anything.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      Sorry, donations didnt work in last 20 years and they will for sure not work in next 20 years.

  • Paul Mullins

    Works out to $6.50 AUD which is less that the cost of a beer..

    I think some of you are just tight wads and want everything for nothing.. including this hover car.

    • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

      As Wim eloquently points out somewhere on this thread, it’s not just about the money!

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        No its not about the money! Its about modding but Wim seems not to follow that really and same neather are you. in 15 years that im aware of modding that last 5 has changed so much.

        You have no idea what is going on and many here eather behind all that.

        Our idea will never destroy anything, if it will something it will help again to get more people on the scratch made work, even licensed cars and so on.

        Some of you live there nicely ordered rf1 first years of mods but let me lighten you up, from 100 mods we have 10 scratch made, 40 conversions with small updates from F1C game and 50 ripped content and if anything will get to the modders slap on the hand or even wors it will be game industrly overall becase of the ripped content and its completly community fault that it supported that for so many years but be aware that more and more new games are beeing nicely locked down and that next generation of games that will support such great modding platforms will stay out of mods.

        Becase you hear assetto or rf2 is something great now and it will offer mods it doesnt mean you will get them actually becase most of them will fail within first few months allready and they will stay WIP news on this sites as many before.

        Many here are so blind and still hoping and waiting all the time for new mods to come, well wait further it might never happen!

      • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

        Oh shut up, you wally. A lot of people don’t like what you have done so deal with it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        And alot do, so deal with it to.

  • Matt Orr

    Regarding the legality…

    BMW in particular could fairly easily make a case against him if they
    wanted I’d wager. With the grill / hoffmeister kink being so distinctively BMW, it likely could be wagered as trade dress or a design patent of some sort at some place. Like someone else said, you would literally not know if this was a BMW M3 DTM or “Bayro T5″ unless someone told you. At first glance, it is a M3 DTM. Audi, well… they look generic anyways. lol ;)

    People see pCARS and think it’ll be okay to just change the names and not use logos from real companies – frankly, you are stupid if you think you can. pCARS is not a commercial product persay – yet. While we are talking about 3D models, the shapes are still distinctly those of the manufacturer’s they represent.

    “Trade dress infringement occurs when an alleged infringer makes use of a
    protectable and similar automobile design, which creates a likelihood
    of confusion as to the association, affiliation or sponsorship of the
    infringer’s automobile design. Factors included in this “likelihood of
    confusion” determination include (a) the similarity of the trade
    dresses, (b) the area and manner of concurrent use, including the
    similarity of the automobiles on which the trade dresses are being used,
    (c) the degree of care likely to be used by consumers, (d) the strength
    of the mark owner’s trade dress, (e) evidence, if any, of actual
    confusion, and (f) any intent on the part of the alleged infringer to
    pass off its automobile as that of the trade dress owner.”

    http://www.metrocorpcounsel.com/articles/5428/automobile-designs-protecting-investment-legend-intellectual-property

    Kit Cars make this okay, right? Uhh, not so much.
    http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/IPCoop/91ferr1.html

    Why does a Porsche 911 look like a Porsche 911 and nothing looks like a Porsche 911? Why doesn’t everybody put a fancy yellow shield badge on their fenders and jack up the price 15k?

    Of course with the internet legal issues are always odd to say the least… but Ales…. you need to sell a LOT of these to cover the attorney you will need when you get bitch-smacked with a C&D from someone with significantly more money and significantly better attorneys.

    It isn’t a question of “if” it is simply a question of “who” and “when”. If someone wants to, they will. No, it isn’t simply because this is payware this could – and eventually will – happen, though it certainly does make it more likely considering you are now making money off someone else’s design.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      Look Im not sure if youre trying to help me here or just trying to be smart. If its first than im sorry but really dont bother with all those lightning up and what this and what that. I did enough of research in last year, i know my rights to my work and to 3d models so as art.

      Do you really have nothing better to do aactually? Who ever does it, what does it, its there own choise how to deal with it and can bring that to them.
      Are you going on those big companys? Arent here few games supported doing same bussines model with fictional content and youre going to complain about us?

      Thank you all for lightening us up with some simple facts.

      I hate it when you all are beeing smart around modders work all time but never really say something where its needed!

      Where were you all damn when modders work was needed to protect it so they would still be here, where were you all to stop those conversion from other games?

      Damn pisses me off with all those smart people here now allready trying to be the smartest one, coming here with links and comparing, comparing and comparing all the times.

      3rd news here behind our work is a scratch made F1 work and some complaining allready and beeing smart not capable even to do a simple skin on cars.

      We damn offer you something as clearly there are like no more modders doing scratch work, we do it in quick time and quality just right for this new games but no. Wait for free mods if there will be any. Dont bother explaining here what is right, what is not becase you were the one praising those ripped stuff in the past and its the communitys fault many modders are gone.

      Rather youre complaining here about what is wrong and what is wrong you should support modders overall if that will bring back scratch made and new cars/tracks.

      When enduracers porsche mod was stoped most of the community started to complain about it and many asked to change there name and liverys to fictional, WTF?? and here youre complaining actually?

      Get some life folk or start modding so the modding will not die out.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        I have to admit Ales, that I do find it strange that a lot of people are concerned about your cars looking like real-world counterparts and micro-analysing this in every detail, yet when it comes to mods ripped from commercial games or ported across platform without permission, they don’t seem to mind – especially if the end result it pleasing.
        If your mod had been free no-one would be having this reaction.

        But ripped mods use content that isn’t free too and and that illegal practice is deliberate and blatant. Yet when it comes to worrying about legal ramifications, those mods are prone too. Has the modding world ended due to illegally ripped mods ? Naaah. Maybe cos they are free eh ? So that must make it ok.
        And if they are caught out, what happens? They get a warning to remove the content/links from their page.

        I think we all know one particular person who seems to only deal in ripped mods and he is merrily chugging along without any care or scruples. It’s free so no-one seems to mind.

        I’m sure some will see them as two different things and not a case of double-standards because they think once you charge for something, then people get on the payware bandwagon and then it’s chaos. I personally don’t see that happening but that’s just my opinion.

        I cannot speak for others but I know I am not going to fork out money on a mod that has been ripped from someone else or has stuff in it that needs licencing because it has used a brand name or a car manufacturer name. I think most sim-racers are eagle-eyed enough to know when this is happening – like someone using wheels from another mod for example – and word will spread and that payware mod will be avoided and not give it any attentiion unless some people just have to have it anyway because they couldN’T care less. Moreover that mod ‘maker’ will not get a good rap.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Im still wondering only why are we so beeing bashed on but game dev with same stuff and bussines model not, its really like we are only ones doing it.
        Wouldnt a game dev actually bring far more attention to fictional cars looking like real ones that makes miliions?
        I understand about concerning but what ever we do is related to us, not there work, especially those that have nothing done or if there arent any new mods how will that actually affect the overall modding?
        You have to admit that you have few mod news actually here and most of them are so or so scrapped soon and never see the light.
        Should we actually go and wait for something that really might never happen, be released as a mod?
        But what is really a differente to from the sites that offer original cars to our cars, only a 3d program that views the models actually but its still a 3d art concept that is same.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        I render cars all the time on my site that have all the official badges, liveries, bodyshapes etc etc. I could probably charge for them and still not have any legal issues because its an artwork. Just like it’s not illegal to sketch or oil-paint Senna in a McLaren for example.

        Obviously it’s different for mods because a mod can infringe on other sims with the proper licenced cars – or for other reasons.
        Maybe it’s just knowing where to draw that line and you say you’ve done your research so, lets see…

      • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

        i Have a background in the music industry. home and pro producers use copyrighted baselines, riffs and leads all the time.. nobody cares about it.

        Untill a track with only the smallest copyrighted material in it becomes a hit … then all hell breaks loose… As i said before, this is not a war against Ales. Its more a concern about the essence of modding.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Yeah I know. I just don’t think it will turn out in quite the same way as you do providing people are careful and don’t abuse these copyrights and brand names.

      • Matt Orr

        Your head is so far buried in the sand I’ll be laughing when you get what is coming to you. You are acting like an egotistic prick over this. You are not the only one doing anything – except attempting to make money. You are not the only modder on the block, yet you seem to think you are.

        All of my rFactor install consists of scratch work. All of it is better than what the “beta” of this mod showed me.

        Why am I banned from No Grip Racing? Because I was the one dude calling them out on their own policies – they didn’t give a fudge if it was an “illegal” by their own guidelines convert. Don’t blame me.

        You want to bitch about how it isn’t 2005, it takes so much work to do scratch work – yet you can’t even comprehend it takes about 3 minutes to make a post. It took 2 to simply google “automotive trade dress” ffs.

        Why should I support people like you? You are so friggen clueless. Hell, how do I even know you are a business and not a fly by night operation that just takes people’s money with no product in return?

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        What do you care what will protect me or not actually? If you will do something worry about it than but i dont need you to worry about my work.
        Really tell me exactly what is exactly youre problem youre overall complaining here about?
        You just have overall problem and nothing has to do what we are working on, its the money that is catching into youre head than does it to my actully.
        Who sayed you should support us actually, just dont attack us like we are hurting you.
        We didnt do to anybody anything and get it into youre head.
        You dont need to post me stuff that i googled to, youre freaking clueless actually and just beeing smart here overall since first news from us has come.
        Youre like broken tape going all over and over again. Youre not supporting us, we are not doing anything to you or anybody bad but still youre ranting and complaining all over.

        Really dont want to argue with you, we have diferent opinions but youre just pointing me some stuff out i allready know. If you have a problem with out work fine but just leave it.
        We are doing it, and we are the ones having to deal with it.

      • Matt Orr

        Nobody is modding rF2 because rF2 isn’t even live yet. No one is taking the time to put everything into a game that will not exist as such more likely than not 6 months from now. No one is modding rF1 because it’s an ancient platform with it’s successor sort of on the market. There is currently no VIABLE mod platform worth sinking time into. Rest assured, there are plenty of guys behind those big name teams who are sticking with one.

        But please, continue to shout out how it isn’t 2005 because no one is modding – which is simply because of all the conversions.

        FYI, conversions were 10x more prevalent in 2005 than they are today. Before Codies cracked down, it was much, much, much, MUCH worse than now.

        Wim is right – I know because I quit when someone stole my stuff without even asking. I know because I’ve had my stuff sold for someone else’s profit. Your whole concept of “I can do it in the right time!” is a dig at everyone else and you know it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

        Matt you dont need to support us but understand modders view to. There is wider range of the idea support from previus older known modders to, ive talked to many of them.
        RF2 as it is now its completly great for modders to actually work on release stuff, thats why actually the beta is here to to fullfill what is needed, to be tested what is needed all around modding and the time actually to adjust everything around mods is now.
        RMT sayed that they are waiting to be finished but its not only that, they are waiting for assetto curently and they sayed it allready, there will be probably a car or two, maybe 3 from there mods for rf2 only.
        If you do cars right now for rf2 you dont need to update them as some think, Some ISI cars had no updates since release and they still work, problems that came with release are those the game itself did.
        What is actually wrong if i can do stuff in right time and im not leaving community in hopes that might some day be released? If we can do it, why not. If you would be able fine and great but it is and you just dont want accept that it is like it is now. All the big teams and scratch made work are long gone. Maybe there is 1 or guys from them still around. Really you sayed you have full of scratch made mods in rf1, go count them who is still here or atleast go count those new ones coming and releasing something to.
        But overall if manufacturers will see bussines in soemothing like that they will come with me or without me. That never stoped them with free mods in past and will neer stop them in future and for sure it wont be this ideas fault.
        Overall modding is allready big bussines for years if you dont know it, there are many groups allready doing stuff for manufactures making far bigger money we will ever, damn even i did and still do! Many racing teams are working close with modders to allready.
        This way is just very limited to what you can and cant do if you do something for them.
        Inform youreself about this but i dont want to do private stuff, i want to offer something for the community but youre seeing something that you want to see only.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Matt, please, you need to back down with the language and the insults. I am getting so fed up of people who just don’t think posting rules apply because they’re angry.
        No more warnings.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Ericsson/100001330281870 Eric Ericsson

    I guess what they say is true:racing game enthusiasts are the biggest birds of video game.

  • Pablo Coronel

    Only for be clear, the mod delivers 3 cars at 10 euros, first 2 cars then the third, so they cost 3,3333 euros for car.

    • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

      True, it comes out like that but the problem is not the money how some say, the problem it that it brings problems to none modders actually, especially to those that are not modding or they try and even than they fail.

    • Anonymous

      Except the cars should have identical physics and only the skin is different.

      • http://www.facebook.com/wayne.reed2 Wayne Reed

        Why should they???? The real life DTM sorry “T5″ cars dont all drive the same yes there mached for speed and waight but thats it. It does not say its a league mod and even then it still should not.

      • Anonymous

        That’s incorrect, modern DTM cars do drive the same, because they are. They’re more identical than a NASCAR car. The three manufacturers collaborated to design a common safety cell, aero, and suspension that they put a spec Judd engine in. The only things different between the cars are the headlights, grille, and roof, none of which really affect the cars.

        “For this reason, identical assembly components are now used in all performance relevant areas of the DTM.”
        http://www.dtm.com/en/technical-regulations.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/wayne.reed2 Wayne Reed

        You may wish to read that again my old chum. It does not say anyy thing about a Judd engine for a start and you would have to be out of your tree to think the “BIG 3″ would use any thing other then there own. As for them having the same safty cell all that is, is what the rest of the tub is made around IE the cockpit Bracks are the same gearbox is the same the engine’s are made by BMW MERC and Audi but >>>the inlet system must be fitted with two air restrictors with no more then a max diameter of 28mm. Over then that the V8 has to be the same 90 degrees on all 3. The list goes on.

      • Anonymous

        I think you’re right. It’s a shame the DTM regs are so hard to come across. Some places say the cars are identical, others say they get lots of freedom. Seems they use the same parts, but free choice of geometry. Maybe a bit like the old Super Touring days, where design is free below the wheel centerline.

        That said, it does highlight the issue with a mod like this. Without any data, the cars might as well be identical, because the only other thing he can do to make them different involves blindly guessing at geometries (not to mention at the spec component values). Does the BMW have more kingpin inclination or less?

      • http://www.facebook.com/wayne.reed2 Wayne Reed

        If you mean in game i dont know tbh as i have not got the mod yet. As for in real life as you have said with out the data for all 3 cars your guess is as good as mine lol

      • Anonymous

        In reality. Like I said, that’s always been my issue with mods, for a car like this there’s absolutely no way to know what these cars are using. Even the engines, getting a dyno chart is impossible. If a car is faster is it because of more top end HP or more low rev torque?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jm.defarges Jm Defarges

    It is inadmissible openly(frankly) to charge “mod” 5€!!!
    I hope that ISI is going to move!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jm.defarges Jm Defarges

    Expansive price for ONE cars…and this system is not on adequation in communauty simracing ansd thx for erase my old message !!! …not cool yes maybe…is reality…

    • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

      You don’t have any delete posts. But there is one you made 30 minutes earlier with pretty much the same repeated words which is still here. Maybe you missed it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wayne.reed2 Wayne Reed

    I dont want to say how i think it will go as i dont know but i hope it all works out for you guys. On a side note found this today and thought it was so funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=epVQArLLmmM

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    OK well I took the plunge and bought the T5 series package for €10 last night and gave it a try. I was just hoping I wasn’t going to regret it.

    I will say right now that these are pretty much my favourite cars in rF2 so far.

    But.. that is not to the cost of the ISI ones because I also love the Clio, Corvette etc. It is more down to the fact that they suit my style more. I am an F1 nut for those that hadn’t realised :) and as such I like grip and being able to push hard (for the dirty minded, yes yes we are still talking motor racing).
    These cars have grip. Plenty. But if you really push these things hard they will start to understeer and become less stable to being pushed out of corners, especially off camber ones, and will spin you off. Drop the rear wing a bit and it starts to get trickier while you go for your laptime.

    On the TV replay, the grip is evident but they seem to look and behave just as they should. It feels right to me but I’m no expert on DTM style cars.

    Heat haze from the exhausts is a lovely touch if a tiny bit exaggerated. Sounds need a bit of an update compared to the real thing but as a they are meant to be fictional, they are fine atm. Lights working, wipers working, driver anim is there.

    I spent 3 hours on it last night at Mid Ohio and it was a blast. Then I remembered that I forked out money for these 2 cars with a 3rd promised later. I don’t feel robbed. Nice job on the mod itself Ales. Thumbs up here.

    Here is a small vid of one of my early runs as I started to push once the track had rubbered in a bit. http://racingrenders.com/T5-MidOhio-F1racer.avi

    I won’t charge you for the video in case YouTube sue me :)

    • Anonymous

      Did the two cars drive any differently?

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        I`ll be honest, I only tested the Bayro that night. I suspect the if there is any difference with the Aura, I might not pick it up. :)

  • Culley

    I wouldn’t mind paying for good content and I believe that the creators deserve something for their hard work. However, it must be very inexpensive since there is already so much great content out there free of charge.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    Im sure it is and im glad people love there work, really. But becase we offer something diferent it cant be bad right away. But we chated about it allready, its hard to please everybody :D

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