SRT Episode 61 – First rFactor 2 Video Footage

As promised a week ago, InsideSimRacing.tv has delivered the first moving footage of rFactor 2 as Darin, Shaun & Jessica were recently joined by Image Space Incorporated’s Gjon Camaj for an interview session.

Camaj did not come empty-handed, bringing an alpha-version of rFactor 2 on his laptop. We get to check out some gameplay footage including a Toyotoa off-road car, the Panoz roadster and the 1967 Formula One car at Spa.

Edit: As you can see, readers from VirtualR and other community sites are no longer welcome to watch this video directly so please head to RSC to watch it there. I was under the impression that this was meant to inform the whole community but apparently it’s property of a single site and only meant to be viewed by their readers for the coming days.

You can watch the video below, the rFactor 2 bit starts at minute 35.

Via RSC

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • http://www.sonicrealmsracing.co.uk Gerdoner

    Been waiting for this for a few days now… gonna watch it now :)

  • Bjorn

    Homeoftheoneclickinstall < YouTube :wink:

  • mike84

    graphically it did not look impressive and yes i know its laptop. it seems the system requirements will be same as rf1

    the most interesting thing was weather changing during race, improved tire physics, and it sounded that it could be released early Q1 2011

  • zudthespud

    That looked as good as if not better than any of the stock content in rf1, I can’t wait to see it running on high. Really great to finally see some footage after so long.

  • GeraArg

    Lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection… :sad:

    When will be available on youtube? :grin:

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    I never gave a crap about animated crew but after watching that guy step out of the garage and check to see if it was clear before waiving you on made me change my mind. I hate pulling out of the stall no knowing if your going to get clobbered by someone speeding in the pit lane. Hopefully the characters really do have logic and can really check to see if it is clear and stop traffic if needed.

    The GUI looked much better in motion then it did in screenshots.

  • paupau

    GeraArg: Lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection, lost connection…
    When will be available on youtube?

    I can’t watch it either :sad2:

  • Austin Powers

    Me neither, what a nonsense that this show suddenly is no longer on youtube. I wonder if this is about rFactor 2 promotion for the community or promotion of a certain website with not so many clicks.

    Ill check back once i can see it on InsideSimRacing on Youtube.

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    I´ll replace the video with a Youtube version as soon as there is any.

  • Austin Powers

    Montoya: I´ll replace the video with a Youtube version as soon as there is any.

    Awesome, thanks Montoya!

  • Scott_J

    Hi all :)

    Again, let me please remind everyone that Gjon was NOT expecting to show rF2. In that version he had our new tree technology was VERY broken, which is why many elements were sitting sideways. And so it is with alpha code–things never seem to work when you need them to….

  • mike84

    i guess that’s why during the video rf2 crashed :sd:

  • VrSucks

    Great Video! :shame: I love watching a blank screen??? that interview of Gjon was great! oh wait NM there is no video…FAIL…

  • Shum94

    Ok Gjon came to visit isr team and he showed rF2, on a laptop. That make sense.

    But why ISI dont publish a trailer from a good computer (max graphic filtering), with a corrected alpha version of the tree thing.

    I cant comment on rF2 because the video was removed from the host just when i was to the part where it was showed.

    But i can say that i dont like the menu à la Iphone. I dont have an iphone bu ti reconise the style of the iphone ui for MP3 with the album art that you slide, it migh tbe nice for a touch device but on our big monitor with our mouse, i’m not abig fan of this UI.

    UI in game in the begining of the video with th epick up aint nice either.
    It doesnt look like a simulation with this interface with the gearing displayed that big, that colorish.

  • mike84

    well what you didn’t catch in the video is gjon saying that ui can be changed so its all customizable.

  • Shum94

    Well i hope to see something more thrilling than the pick up thing.

    But its a good news for the UI

  • http://simscreens.blogspot.com 6e66o

    Scott_J:new tree technology

    That sounds interesting :)
    Pity it wasnt working in the video..

    However i would allready be happy if rF2 could render materials with transparency without any problems.

  • UncleChuckle

    So the video has been pulled.

    Terrific. *sigh*

  • F1_fan_1

    You can watch it at RSC!

  • RJC_pt

    Thanks all at ISI! Please do make hillclimb work :wink:

  • Shum94

    The pit guy moves look ok but when he finish to move its too bad he doesnt look like someone who breathe. He just stay frozen, too bad.

    I get that the engine is the same but a correction on the colours, less cartoonish colours would be nice.

  • Uff

    Shum94:But why ISI dont publish a trailer from a good computer (max graphic filtering), with a corrected alpha version of the tree thing.

    Probably because they prefer to have everything sorted out before showing something incomplete. :)
    I’ve been lucky enough to see the video before it went offline.

  • Shum94

    rF2 v0.783
    The v1.0 wont be as much different as this v0.783, graphicly i mean.

  • Shum94

    Btw this thing with the obligation to go on rsc is foolish.

  • scca1981

    Can’t judge much graphics wise from this preview. It’s running on a low powered non-gaming laptop in low res windowed mode. Try rfactor 1 with everything set to low in 800×600 windowed mode with no AA/AF or anything. Looks like shit :)

  • Firefox

    That comment about iRacing was really brilliant! :sd: :lol:

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    That video played bad for me. Maybe its my bandwidth or something but it stuttered through the entire time. I tried it in IE and the same. So I dunno whats going on there, it was virtually unwatchable. So I hope it does hit YouTube soon because that stupid player on SRW doesnt buffer the playback. :haha:

  • http://sommergemuese.klee.in Sommergemüse

    This player is so fucked up – I wait for Youtube but what I seen so far rF2 has a really crap menu (Are we on Consoles now? OMG!)

    And the Graphics of the “Mud” Track are looking like 2006 Games …

    Yeah now I get evil mails from some fanboys again or hate comments like “You like Shift, you don’t know anything idiot”, but I don’t care :P

    Don’t tell me this was the lowest Graphic Settings – almost every new Game with Lowest Setting is looking better than rF2 … :eek:

  • carbonfibre

    Problems watching the video? It’s working fine for me, athough the video player at RSC isn’t the smoothest but regardless, this going to be analysed to the pixel anyway.

    First I just hope to god Gjon isn’t developing rF2 using that laptop. Forget turning the graphics off, you need to test game running at 60fps from the start. I would lose my mind if I had to work with that.

    I’m just speculating that’s why the original cockpit shake algorithm stayed in rFactor because Gjon was watching it at 15fps. :sad2: Higher frame rates quickly reveal detail you don’t see.

    So anyway, what can we eagle-eye viewers deduce from this?

    I’m gonna watch over a few more times before I post anything.

  • mike84

    in the track selection menu

    there seem to be 4 tracks

    sepang, nurburing, what were the other two?

    also when showing the historic f1 car at one point there was large drops of rain falling on the screen it didn’t look too impressive.

  • max1492

    I’m still looking forward to this release, but have to admit I’m a little disappointed in the graphics. Yes, they were shown in low quality mode on a laptop, etc., but it’s pretty obvious to me that they aren’t going to look a whole lot better than rF1.

  • http://arseforums.com/phpBB/ r8response

    To those of you who insist on whinging about the graphics. Compare the original rFactor tracks and cars to that of the work of CTDP, Enduracers, Virtua_LM etc etc

    If you haven’t already worked it out, ISI gives you the platform from which to build upon…

  • Shum94

    Except the demo of rFactor 1 convinced me. And all i was waiting was a good sim in Dx9
    GTR 1 demo was good but graphicly i was waiting for a sim in Dx9, rfactor demo convinced me when i pited out.

    Now all we ask for from rF2 aint Crysis show off, when the trailer shows you the game with full filtering on when you werent abe to do that on your comp when it came out.

  • moppenheimer

    Why is it such a hard concept for you to grasp Shum94? They havent released a trailer yet because they arent ready. END OF STORY. You’re lucky to get Alpha previews. Would any other game company show you unfinished previews that havent been photoshopped to death? No. Please, for everyone else’s sake, stop whining about the graphics and them not giving you enough.

  • GeraArg

    No one has anything to say about the multiplayer?… :lol:
    This is screen is quite interesting:
    http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1747/dibujoovo.jpg

    Start the game and the first thing that appears, I hope the multiplayer like the LFS or iRacing, with statistics, etc and and most importantly, a unique user/nick per license, so if someone enters a public server to annoy, ban forever… :happyevil: :happyevil: :happyevil:

    moppenheimer: Why is it such a hard concept for you to grasp Shum94? They havent released a trailer yet because they arent ready. END OF STORY. You’re lucky to get Alpha previews. Would any other game company show you unfinished previews that havent been photoshopped to death? No. Please, for everyone else’s sake, stop whining about the graphics and them not giving you enough.

    Agree.

  • stabiz

    Yeah, graphics will probably be very good/good enough, and CERTAINLY lots better than rF1 and thats all I care about. I am more interested in wind, weather, more advanced physics and the new tire model.

  • zudthespud

    Montoya, you are now banned from posting Sim Raceway videos? Wow, they really must be desperate for hits.

  • Firestarter

    Looks exactly the same as rFactor, only with a bit more polygons rendered.

  • Niels_at_home

    rFactor2 seem to continue in mainly being a modding platform. A usual, your mileage will vary greatly depending on the skill of the modders. Even with rF1 probably only 5% of the mods get near the limits of graphics, sounds and physics, and with rF2 its likely to be much the same!

    But, probably, the engine will be better so the few good modders should have a few new clever things to play with that make things look, sound and drive better. It might take a year or more though before that happens!

    rF2 is just a base, in fact it is probably going to be the modding base for quite a couple of years. Then at the end of those years we’ll have stunning content that wouldn’t have been possible with rF1, just like the stuff we have now, nobody could do in 2005.

  • commodore

    Whining about graphics … you really are true SIMracers.

  • Zonarz

    Looks okay for a …2005 game

    hopefully by the end of the next decade to look slightly close to this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwlMxrae7fE&hd=1

  • felipe

    commodore: Whining about graphics … you really are true SIMracers.

    what are you talking about? The best possible graphics will make the game an even more authentic simulation of real life! A game can have sim physics and arcade graphics or the game can have sim physics and counter-life graphics simulation! That means the best the graphics the best a sim that game will be and specially now that we are very very close to 3D becoming mainstream graphics can make or kill a game even a so called sim!

  • Uff

    commodore: Whining about graphics … you really are true SIMracers.

    Considering that’s the only thing it’s possible to talk about at the moment I don’t see why people should talk about something different, as we don’t know anything about the rest. Yes, there will be a new tire model. Do we know how it works? No. Improved FF? Good. Do we know how it has changed? No. Until we’ll have more details it’s a bit difficult to talk about something you don’t know.

  • stabiz

    The end is near! Doom and gloom!

    Seriously, we are not close to 3D becoming mainstream, lots of people are still using single core processors. Sure, true to life graphics would be great, but that is usually bundled with half assed physics and 8 opponents in 5 lap races. Stuff that and give me rFactor with shinier graphics, weather, animations and refined physics. It seems like that is what rFactor 2 is all about, so high five from me.

  • Uff

    Zonarz: Looks okay for a …2005 game

    Once people will be able to understand that the video was recorded with lowest graphic settings, on a nettop and with all the effects turned down it will be a good step forward… :roll:
    Try to run rF1 in Dx7 and with all the lowest settings and Dx9 full settings: I think you’ll get an idea of the difference that there will be between what we’ve seen and the final version. :wink:

  • jgmonty

    Its interesting to see the difference in comments from modders and users. Personally I agree with the former, let ISI provide the platform and let the modders take things from there as has always been the case. I’m not sure that users always appreciate what is involved to create these titles or the fact that it is a somewhat limited market compared to other genres. As for the latest 3D fad, will see, the technology has a long way to go before it will peak my interest in it.

    The real limitation to graphics is not the developers (or modders) but the hardware to run them and still provide the benefits of other aspects of the simulation. It is now and for the near future going to be a compromise.

    I for one am happy that ISI is including us in their progress, shame that I can’t watch the latest video though, due to SRW’s sponsorship requirements, as I had been looking forward to it.

    BTW: I was just banned for life from RSC… Reason: I got frustrated trying to unsubscribe and changed my profile to “Boycotting” (I know, childish on my part (lack of sleep)…). Good riddance I say, RSC is not what it was, now for SRW… :wink:

  • Zonarz

    Uff:
    Once people will be able to understand that the video was recorded with lowest graphic settings, on a nettop and with all the effects turned down it will be a good step forward…
    Try to run rF1 in Dx7 and with all the lowest settings and Dx9 full settings: I think you’ll get an idea of the difference that there will be between what we’ve seen and the final version.

    I wouldn’t call this Nettop

    http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5957/20100327114807.png

  • spliff

    i have 1mbit connection and i am not able to watch the video. it stutters every second and the player sucks big time and loses connection all the time and seems not to be able to prebuffer when i pause the video.

    great, but i gave that RSC parasite a few hits. ISR sucks. :/

  • David Wright

    Great episode – really enjoyed the show.

    I have always liked Gjon’s understated approach and dry sense of humour. As always, there are lots of question’s I’d have asked but whether I’d have got an answer is another story :)

  • michael

    Montoya: I´ll replace the video with a Youtube version as soon as there is any.

    Hopefully, assuming they get it on youtube before their disks crash again and their site disappears for another few months… :D

  • Ivo Simons

    RSC :roll:

  • migf1

    I think ISI hadn’t shown anything regarding rfactor 2 so far for a reason. It’s obviously in a pretty early stage and also it seems their instinct (or experience) about whiners who would criticize extremely lowered graphics on a general purpose laptop has some valid base :sd:

    Anyway, to me it was important to hear right from the devs’ mouth that there is a completely new tire model and changeable weather (both dynamically and statically, as an option).

    I would also like to hear about things like dynamic changes in the grip of both the tires and the track surface, depending on various elements (such as dirt, debris, weather, wear, racing line, temperatures, etc), things like improving the damage/wear model expanding it perhaps in more areas of the static and/or movable parts of the cars, and things like a centralized official site offering both mod-control and global stats/raknings/servers-monitors/etc, something like LFS World in LFS (rFactor’s attempt to do something similar with Racecast was sadly poorly designed and abandoned at the end).

    Sounds & graphics have much more margin to get improved by the modding community. Things like the ones I described above are the really important ones, and much more difficult if not impossible in many cases to get improved by modders if they do not exist initially in the sim’s engine.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    RaceSimCentral only ???? .. jee , i still think they are starting to get a real attitude problem.

  • Vettel

    RSC sucks! Impossible to watch the video…. :lol: :lol:

  • RockStar

    Hey RSC retards , put the damn video on youtube , that player is full of crap!!

    FFS i can’t watch or even load the damn thing.

  • http://www.tltracks.com Alex

    There maybe not be a lot of hit you in the face graphical things in those videos, but to a developer there are an awful lot of advancements and new features in there which are easy to spot

  • racedriver

    Video player in that site is crap. Unable to view it :weird:

  • Firestarter

    Wtf “The video is not authorized for this domain”. Way to go :(

  • fpol

    David Wright: .As always, there are lots of question’s I’d have asked but whether I’d have got an answer is another story :)

    Truth is, I think there was more to be gained from the interview even in the time alloted. I understand people are facinated by the interviewers “assets” but I still had some things I’d have love to have heard asked – or in a more precise manner.
    Nice that Gjon himself put down this myth that F1 drivers are training on rFactor (he noted that it was rfactor pro which is a different product), as if Fernando Alonso is firing up his laptop and G27 in Melbourne, downloading a highly inaccurate modded track, with a speculative (driving model wise) Ferrari, and preparing for the race.

    After *watching* the screens though, I remain shocked at all the criticism. I find the alpha looks very promising.

    ..and what are “arcade graphics” as one poster mentioned?…Don’t so called ‘arcade’ games usually have *better* graphics?

  • Daheee

    As I have said before better FFB is what I need. Rfactor has been left behind by the competition with this in recent years IMO.
    Thanks to the guys for bringing us this interview though :sd:

  • hoover

    @stabiz: agree whole-heartedly here. The thing is in the works and imroving all the time, and I’d happily pay ISI lots of € on some improvements on rF. I’m quite happy with what Gjon revealed about rF2, esp. the weather bits (I wonder if it’d be possible for a dedicated server hoster to pre-determine weather conditions without the drivers knowing about them? Could make things interesting).

  • Shum94

    Alex: There maybe not be a lot of hit you in the face graphical things in those videos, but to a developer there are an awful lot of advancements and new features in there which are easy to spot

    Explain i’m intrested

    Alex: There maybe not be a lot of hit you in the face graphical things in those videos, but to a developer there are an awful lot of advancements and new features in there which are easy to spot

  • Zenitchik

    From what I can see in the interview, rF2 looks rather very promising!

    Hopefully rF2 will take advantage of the new stuff in DX11
    and improve the FFB, that alone would be fantastic.

  • Tigerteeth

    I wonder if Gjon is now regretting that interview – he was reluctant to show any video of the lastest WIP build of rF2 publicly because he knew how it would be received by the community. Making it an ‘exclusive’ at a site which is even unable to stream a video was another mistake – not a great start for a title that is widely anticipated by many.

    Perhaps Image Space should have it’s own rF2 WIP site/blog/forum so fans can get more involved with the developers themselves. I would rather read what someone who is actually working on rF2 has to say and what they’re working on, rather than trying to find out details from an ‘exclusive’ video that I can’t even watch due to excessive stuttering.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    I only hope that SRW only has exclusivity on the SRT videos for a couple of days or so. I can understand they want to draw people over to them because of the tie-on etc, but the least you’d expect is that the video would be reliably playable.

    if SRW plan to keep the SRT video’s to themselves then I will be very disappointed because as Montoya said in the thread edit, these are supposedly designed and filmed for the community to see and not for someone to have exclusivity over.

  • ISRacing

    I’d like to make something clear. Inside Sim Racing / SRT is a content provider for RSC. They have it exclusively for a short period of time.

    Not sure why “Virtual R readers and the rest of the community” are not allowed to watch the show directly.. Is it pay per view ? Do you need some kind of log in ? The player has issues, we’re aware of it and it’s being addressed. Our last 5 shows were hosted there exclusively for a short period without a problem or complaint.

    The embed code was not offered publically. It was taken from the raw code off of RSC. How do you even do that ??

    The community has and always will be welcome to watch our show free of charge from multiple outlets. We’ve been on Stage 6, Blip TV, Yahoo, AOL, Google, You Tube, Vimeo and now RSC. Some have been better than others.. This one, is not doing so well for us and it’s being addressed. We apologize for the inconvenience.

    >Edit: As you can see, readers from VirtualR and other community sites are no >longer welcome to watch this video directly so please head to RSC to watch it >there. I was under the impression that this was meant to inform the whole >community but apparently it’s property of a single site and only meant to be >viewed by their readers for the coming days.

  • unklepepper

    fpol:
    Nice that Gjon himself put down this myth that F1 drivers are training on rFactor (he noted that it was rfactor pro which is a different product), as if Fernando Alonso is firing up his laptop and G27 in Melbourne, downloading a highly inaccurate modded track, with a speculative (driving model wise) Ferrari, and preparing for the race.After *watching* the screens though, I remain shocked at all the criticism.I find the alpha looks very promising…and what are “arcade graphics” as one poster mentioned?…Don’t so called ‘arcade’ games usually have *better* graphics?

    Well Red Bull seem guite happy to download a highly inaccurate modded track for its rFactor Pro powered simulator to eat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PqIktTe2GI

    Yes this is simply a graphical representation as they have many years worth of track surface data for bumps, curbs & grip levels of there own which are crunched by the simulator.

    I think the guys who mod these aged track meshes for us deserve a pat on the back.

    One of 6 drivers never to have driven the Melbourne track before this weekend, Vitaly Petrov, has accustomed himself to the layout on a Playstation only! At least it was not a Wii :tongue:

  • RockStar

    Zenitchik: From what I can see in the interview, rF2 looks rather very promising!Hopefully rF2 will take advantage of the new stuff in DX11
    and improve the FFB, that alone would be fantastic.

    it has been said a millions of times before that RF2 will run in DX9

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    ISRacing: I’d like to make something clear. Inside Sim Racing / SRT is a content provider for RSC. They have it exclusively for a short period of time.Not sure why “Virtual R readers and the rest of the community” are not allowed to watch the show directly..Is it pay per view ?Do you need some kind of log in ? The player has issues, we’re aware of it and it’s being addressed. Our last 5 shows were hosted there exclusively for a short period without a problem or complaint.
    The embed code was not offered publically. It was taken from the raw code off of RSC. How do you even do that ??
    The community has and always will be welcome to watch our show free of charge from multiple outlets. We’ve been on Stage 6, Blip TV, Yahoo, AOL, Google, You Tube, Vimeo and now RSC. Some have been better than others.. This one, is not doing so well for us and it’s being addressed. We apologize for the inconvenience.
    >Edit: As you can see, readers from VirtualR and other community sites are no >longer welcome to watch this video directly so please head to RSC to watch it >there. I was under the impression that this was meant to inform the whole >community but apparently it’s property of a single site and only meant to be >viewed by their readers for the coming days.

    I do understand the choices of commercial exclusive broadcasts to a certain extend, but in this case it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. This is something that is closely related to the mod community, so it should not be used to someones benefit. in the end we ( the modders and mod users) will be the clients that wil pay for the Sim. We are not the ones who are trying to earn an easy cent on it. So how ever you look at it, i feel exploited.

    It was sad to see that after our beloved rFactorCentral platform died,it was being converted in to a semi commercial venture. Now that the king free of modding forums [RSC] has been converted by exactly the same company for exactly the same reasons, does worry me. The future of modding is not in good hands.

  • RockStar

    This is a very bad return for RSC AKA the lil biacht of that one click site install… :roll:

  • Vettel

    Its a shame to see to rfactor guy giving interviews to the people from Simracewaayy, obviuosly, they are thinking about money and maybe a charge will be required to see a high quality video.

  • snowy

    “I only hope that SRW only has exclusivity on the SRT videos for a couple of days or so.”

    I wouldn’t count on it, now that Simraceway have annexed RSC they want everyone to come back and that – thank goodness – ain’t gonna happen…

  • mcmoha

    I see RSC has already 79,419 members. How is possible? :eek:

  • http://sommergemuese.klee.in Sommergemüse

    Seriously they should hire a marketing expert :P

  • ISRacing

    Just checking.. You’re saying that because we have exclusive footage of rFactor2, that it’s the property of the modding community ? You feel exploited ?? How so ?

    Can I quote you on the show? You’re the writer from BSimRacing ? How about I bring you on the show for an interview to discuss the modding community ? Montoya can join in, we can do it like they do on real TV. A live debate / discussion to finally put this stuff to rest. We can use Skype and webcams if you guys are up to showing yourselves or speaking publically.

    I’ve offered to do this in the past and no one takes me up on it..

    Then we can all jump into a sim and race.. Isn’t that what we’re all here to do anyway.. Race ???

    BSR-WiX: in the end we ( the modders and mod users) will be the clients that wil pay for the Sim. We are not the ones who are trying to earn an easy cent on it. So how ever you look at it, i feel exploited.

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Let me get this straight: Your show and your employer cause a big mess in the community (check the comments here, on RSC and elsewhere – people are rightfully pissed) and you want us to come on your show so you can exploit the mess you created even further?

    And why do we have to come on your show to speak publically? We´re speaking here, loud and clear…everybody can join.

    I don’t need to put myself on camera or wear some ridiculous sponsorship t-shirt to voice my opinion and I´m quite sure the same goes for Wix.

    There’s nothing to put to rest if you and the people you´re associated with aren’t willing to change.

  • Mr. A

    mcmoha: I see RSC has already 79,419 members. How is possible?

    I think they have used the user database from rfactorcentral. I could login with my account from there, which is completely different from my old RSC account.

  • AaronC

    Montoya/Wix – 1
    Darin Gangi – 0

  • steve30x

    I love the Inside Sim Racing but this saddens me to see that you guys have gone this way. I watched the show before it was blocked and the video quality was terrible. I am used to the HD version I usualy see on youtube so to the guys that cant watch this. Your not missing much until a HD version comes available. I hope you guys return to the way it used to be. I am not registering on another website just to watch your show.

  • FooAtari

    How so AronC? Montoya refused Darins offer of a discussion, not sure how that gives him on up over Darin?

    All I have to say is, take it easy guys. Last thing we want is two great sim racing sites “arguing”

  • Austin Powers

    Mr. A:
    I think they have used the user database from rfactorcentral.

    Are you serious :weird: ? So privacy statements don’t count anymore and we all have been made a member of a site we don’t want to be part of?

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Beautiful, isn’t it? :roll:

  • http://www.xtremeracers.info crobol

    Is ISRacing a member of the SRT staff?

    I can’t understand why he expresses in this way. A little bit ironic and doesn’t understand the frustration of fans.

  • BSR-Fonzie

    FooAtari: How so AronC? Montoya refused Darins offer of a discussion, not sure how that gives him on up over Darin?All I have to say is, take it easy guys. Last thing we want is two great sim racing sites “arguing”

    I cant see how Montaya refuses the discussion, because the discussion is going on here.

  • Reality Check

    Given the immature way this site conducted itself around the whole SRW issue, I can’t blame RSC for demanding exclusivity. I would’ve done exactly the same thing.

  • http://www.f1elites.com Crazy Bored

    I just want to watch the video, as it is now the player is so messed up I have to wait for the youtube version. I can’t remember the last time I’ve ever had an issue like this watching a video I’ve been looking forward to for a while.

    There are some serious problems with some things/people in the sim world and it’s really annoying.

  • Shum94

    Exclusivity on what we saw is nothing to be proud of.

    This site is just about centralising all the infos out there, it hasnt the rsc moderating touch and i’m glad for that.

  • Shum94

    Crazy there’s really nothing much to see. Trust me.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    Montoya pretty much said what i would say.
    Let me explain my view and critisisme on the matter .
    When SRT started the show a long time ago, it was the best thing that could happen to the modding scene. A show for the simrace /mod community. And a good one to be honest. After a while there where less modding /Sim items in there to make room for commercials. All cool , because we know it takes hard work, and heaps op leisure time to make a show. Then after a few months everyone who takes the show seriously must of noticed the show turned in to a giant commercial block. that was a pity, but its a free world. so i guess we have to love it, or leave it.

    Part2:
    Some months later all rFactor modders and Mod users received some bad news. rFactor Central shut the doors. The rF Modding HQ for years had died. When it was taken over by SimRaceway , we cheered .. SRW came to the rescue. However, soon enough some people noticed the real intention of the project. Transforming the site into a semi commercial project using the rFC userbase. We all remember the discussions about that one. Most mod teams decided to boycot the site until it was clear what the real intentions where. Most do since this day. The people of MMG with the voice of Pedros Mak did try to clear the situation, but seemed to have spoken for the community , while it was not the case for most of us.
    no harm done, i guess We have to love it or leave it.

    Part 3:

    RSC dies . its being revived by the same people that now own rFc. It still states of being the mother of all sim forums for years , while it has nothing to do with the original platform. Again it seems like nothing more then a big user base purchase, with an unknown intension.

    Part 4:
    The community receives the news that SRT has done an interview with ISI.
    Great news, and i must say it was a very nice interview. Then all off a sudden a video of the sim we all anticipate does pop up, and what do we see… we have to get over to SimRaceway to have a look at it. Exclusive it says?
    Lets be honest. Every person who can think straight knows whats going on. SRT has a deal with Simraceway. there called sponsors, so i call that earning money or benefits . Simraceway gets the video. Why would they want it exclusively? only one answer … Users+views= advertising income

    i do agree that there are no people injured in this situation. However.
    Though some people might discard us as just a bunch of hobbyists that like creating game addons, we do take our hobby serious. Lets call it Modding etiquette. When i see a video of a sim we will eventually want to buy, is being put in an exclusive channel, to make that channel benefit from it, it has crossed the line of modding etiquette.

    The above is just my opinion on the matter. nobody has to agree with it. In the end of the day i love the modding scene as a free and creative hobby that is an extension of my life time passion for motor racing in general. i am convinced that the modding scene would not survive if it gets more and more commercial driven. Once mods start creating income, however small, the company´s who own the rights to all the brands, tracks and models we use, will shut us down. Modding is a form of copyright breach that is being accepted by most company’s because of the fact that nobody earns something with it, and therefore have little or none influence on the product. Every time the modding scene gets more involved in commercial projects, its existence is more and more in danger.

    We do not want to slander anyone individual. not even SRT., but forums like this (and this one is considered the HQ of the sim scene) do exist to give people a base to discuss their visions on all matters Simracing.
    So an skype interview… no thanks. That would just lead to a worldcup of Pro and Contra discussions. i dont think i have the looks to get popular as a TV celebrity.

    As Montoya stated. there is no better place to discuss the topic then here where we are at home.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    Reality Check: Given the immature way this site conducted itself around the whole SRW issue, I can’t blame for demanding exclusivity.I would’ve done exactly the same thing.

    Wrong .. its not “this site” that conducted or had an opinion… its the users on it. i dont think RSC would claim exclusivity for that reason. Thinking that would be immature.

  • Tigerteeth

    I’d happily appear on the Skype face-off, but only if I can wear my ‘I Love VirtualR.net’ t-shirt..:)

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Home of the one-click comment system! :lol:

  • Rasmus

    What’s left to say about this sad situation, except:

    “It’s all about the money
    It’s all about the dum dum du du du dum
    I don’t think It?s funny
    to see us [the sim racing community] fade away
    It?s all about the money
    It?s all about the dum dum du du du dum
    I think they [Simraceway & SRT) got it all wrong, anyway”

    (www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqoAXubMOrc)

  • Reality Check

    BSR-WiX: Wrong .. its not “this site” that conducted or had an opinion… its the users on it. i dont think RSC would claim exclusivity for that reason. Thinking that would be immature.

    It was both. This site took a partisan line during that whole period and was rally hard against SRW. Blogs are free to do that, but when the target of implied or explicit criticism decides not to allow you to play in its park (RSC being bankrolled apparently by SRW), complaining about it looks silly.

    Everyday I have my circuit of sim sites – this one, your one and now RSC – so quite frankly I don’t care if I have to go to three websites to get my sim news fix. I already visit three newspaper sites each day for stories in the real world and I bet they don’t fight in this same way.

  • jgmonty

    Hey BSR-WiX

    I must have missed the post where you said anything about the exclusive footage being the property of the community :grin:

    If they want to pander to corporate sponsors rather than the end users, that is their perogative. Not smart, IMHO, but within their right, and I do appreciate the bottom-line realities of producing the show.

    We have the choice to focus on our passion and support the developers and offer “constructive” criticism where warranted, while ignoring third-party commercial interests that are are buying their way into our world, and motivated solely by their own financial agenda.

    I trust ISI is or will be in the loop on this and will keep us “users” in mind when considering future marketing endeavours.

    We have plenty of forums available to look after own interests, just as we have done, since Sim Titles first arrived on the scene.

    InsideSimRacing:
    The show is great, but I think many of us would like to see you return to targeting us, your audience, directly. We are involved, because it is our passion, and prior to this latest sponsorship debacle we felt kindship with the guys and gals at InsideSimRacing.

    I’m not against commercial interests in itself. I think companies such as iRacing, Real Time Racing, and yourselves are a benefit to the community. At the end of the day it comes down to the business model, and how it is implemented. My personal opinion is that SRW has got it wrong on many counts, while alienating their intended audience in the process, though I was more than willing to give them the benefit of doubt. Unfortunately, your deal with them, leaves a bitter taste. How does the song go, “I sold my soul to the company store”…

    Rightly or wrongly this sponsor deal as per the exclusivity clause with RSC/SRW feels like a sell out to interests other than or own. While it is your right to do so, we don’t have to like it…

    Its late here, I trust I haven’t rambled-on too much.

    Anyway, for what its worth, my two cents,

    jgmonty

    ISRacing: Just checking.. You’re saying that because we have exclusive footage of rFactor2, that it’s the property of the modding community ?

  • ISRacing

    Talk all the trash you want.. Not hard to regurgitate embeds and pictures that you didn’t create.

    Feel free to point me to a quality video review of sim racing gear or titles that didn’t originate from SRT. Without finacial backing, we would have disappeared more than a year ago. You guys don’t like our content, simple solution.. Don’t watch and or.. create your own..

    What news has originated from here?

    How about the mods that get posted at rFactorcentral and then mysteriously show here without reference to RFC?

    Or pictures and a complete story behind the RF2 pictures we posted.. You took the pictures, posted them here without reference to my story, or the fact that I was willing to answer questions, to the COMMUNITY, about RF2.. Can you do that here at Virtual R, or was I supposed to hang out here waiting to answer them ?

    Are you guys even sim racers ?? I see you dodged that question.. Lets race and then see if either of you have any credibility. This is about sim RACING.. right ? So lets race since you can’t give me an interview.

    If you stand behind you words, you shouldn’t be afraid to vocalize it versus hiding behind a keyboard. :roll:

    Darin Gangi

    Montoya: Let me get this straight: Your show and your employer cause a big mess in the community (check the comments here, on RSC and elsewhere – people are rightfully pissed) and you want us to come on your show so you can exploit the mess you created even further?And why do we have to come on your show to speak publically? We´re speaking here, loud and clear…everybody can join.I don’t need to put myself on camera or wear some ridiculous sponsorship t-shirt to voice my opinion and I´m quite sure the same goes for Wix.There’s nothing to put to rest if you and the people you´re associated with aren’t willing to change.

  • Reality Check

    Let me put down a perspective that I think is missing here:

    I’m not a modder. I don’t run a sim racing news website. I don’t produce any videos relating to sim racing. I barely created my own setups. I work 40 hours a week, I have a family and sim racing is a hobby I do in my spare time.

    I don’t care where I get my mods from, so long as they are accessible. I don’t care if I have to visit RSC to see exclusive rFactor2 footage. I don’t care for squabbles between websites. As I said in my previous post I’m happy to visit multiple sites to get news.

    Am I the typical sim racer? I’ll let others decide that. But if I am typical of the people visiting this website, then there are some who really need to think hard about how all of this arguing appears to “the users” of sim racing games.

  • AndreasT

    @Darin:
    I don’t know who you mean with “you guys” but I’d prefer not to generalize that much. I actually still like most of your shows, but at the same time I dislike SRW for reasons that were discussed long ago.

    Concernig mods that are presented and discussed here, well, afaik there is always the reference to the modding group or a link to their homepage, e.g. the devblog of CTDP. Why should you give a reference to rfc if you can give reference to the mod creators?

    Finally, if modders, many (though not all) users and the manager of this site are no longer interested in dealing with SRW, why should they appear in a show sponsored by SRW? Doesn’t make too much sense imho…

    It’s always the same, in the end you cannot make everyone happy. Reality Check doesn’t care about certain things, some people don’t care about playing ripped mods, but others (like me) do care…

  • RG

    ISRacing:This is about sim RACING.. right ?

    I think this is about middle aged men trying to legitimize playing video games.

  • jgmonty

    Hi Darin:

    I’m not really sure it was fair to tell Rob that he doesn’t acknowledge sources. I also note that just because a mod is hosted on rFc, doesn’t give rFc exclusive rights to the mod, mods are hosted on many different sites, virtualr for the most part only provides links to the revelant sites.

    I quote in part from virtualr’s news bulletin:
    “Following the six user interface screenshots released two days ago, InsideSimRacing.tv has released some more material from their meeting with Image Space Incorporated’s Gjon Camaj.”

    I don’t believe anyone here has trashed your show or the production quality of the video, and I think I talk for everyone in saying we all enjoy and wait with anticipation for each new episode.

    I also don’t think any of us would deny your right to raise revenue from sponsorship. It was just the exclusivity portion of the deal, mixed with RCS’s delivery issues that caused the fuss today as we had all been waiting with high expectations for the past week or so.

    Compounded by RSC, rather than saying we are experiencing broadcast problems, please bear with us, they tell virtualr that the video is “ours and you can’t have it”, which is contrary to what was happening previously and put some noses out of joint, including mine, I admit.

    For myself, I cannot watch streaming video. I just don’t have the bandwidth available here in Uganda. I can download at watch off-line, which I am denied with RSC. As things stand I have no idea when I will be able to watch this much anticipated episode and feel somewhat let down.

    I don’t think any of the comments were meant to reflect on InsideSimRacing with regard to the show and I’m sorry that you took any comments as a personal affront.

    As you will have noticed, we are all pretty hyped about rFactor2, not to mention any new news, especially as ISI have been pretty quiet for the last 8 months.

    I, for purely selfish reasons, sincerely hope in the future that your shows will be more widely available (and downloadable), as they were previously, though will survive reluctantly, if not…

    In the meantime, I have a scratch track to complete, which I will expect no more from the community, than a thank-you, if deserved, and will accept any critiques, if not.

    I’m going to bed, I have a F1 race to watch in a about 4 hours and my guy has pole… :happy:

    Yours in Motorsport,

    jgmonty

  • paupau

    ISRacing: ..Are you guys even sim racers ? Lets race and then see if either of you have any credibility. This is about sim RACING.. right ?

    Darin Gangi

    Invite to compete, that’s a first. I’m sure it will solve problems, whoever takes 1’st wins this argument.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    RG:
    I think this is about middle aged men trying to legitimize playing video games.

    Well, i am middle aged. darn…
    It seems that the thin red line is overlooked here.
    What i do worry about is the fact that SRW is a commercial platform using free mods as a content. When that happens, mods start to generate a certain income for a third party. That is plain dangerous for the entire existence of that same mod scene. RSW is sponsoring SRT. thats not a crime, but it does exactly what i am afraid of. It makes a free mod into a commercial product. In this case for a third party, not the creator. The creator will eventually get into trouble because of this third party. established company layers will not tolerate us to create content using their brands when they can be used to generate a commercial environment. I dont target individuals, but business plans, that should not have existed in the first place, in what we call the modding scene. The mere fact that there is a business plan , supports my view on the matter. Modding can not be a business. not even for third party´s. Its the same as kicking the copyright owners who tolerate modding straight in the nuts. and then hope they wont kick back.

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Darin,

    You seem to be missing the point completely. Nobody is talking down the quality of your shows, if they would suck we would have no problem to begin with.

    SRT provides good material for sure but you fail to meet the responsibility that comes with running such a show. Let me explain what I mean: Much like VirtualR, SRT grew because its material got spread around in the community, was posted in forums and on sites like this.

    We supported you, brought you viewers. That viewership allowed you to get noticed by ISI and other companies who would give you exclusive stuff. Without your viewers, nobody would send you hardware samples or stuff like that, you need to have the audience to back it up – Correct?

    Your problem is that you seem to have forgotten who made you this big – The community! Now that the show is well-known, you´ve chosen to cash in and leave the community behind by not allowing people to watch the show on Youtube just like they used to.

    You owe your success to the community and that’s why people get angry when you talk about “exclusive this, exclusive that” because without your viewers, you´d be getting no exclusives of anything.

    We all understand that bills need to be paid but there’s a line between creating a revenue and selling your soul. The current “owners” of your content aren’t trusted by the majority of sim racers for reasons that have been discussed numerous times here. But instead of taking your audience (the people you owe your success to) serious, you slander critics as idiots and ignore the issues raised.

    And of course, let me quickly respond to the points you´ve mentioned:

    First off, why would I need to reference rFactorcentral when posting mods? rFc is one of many sites and forums where mods are posted, 99% of the time not exclusively. For the past months, many rFactor mods haven’t been released on rFc as many modders don’t agree with the new owners.

    Lots of modders contact me directly to have their stuff posted so why would I have to reference other sites where this is posted too? If a release is exclusive to one site (like the recent F1 2007 for GTR Evolution release on RaceDepartment) it’s properly referenced.

    That brings me to the next point: Your rFactor 2 story. I provided two different (!) back links to your sites, including credits in the story text. That’s usual netiquette on blogs, check other big non-sim racing sites to see that it’s handled exactly the same there.

    And what would be wrong with answering the questions here? Is that exclusive to RSC now too? I seriously hope you´re not violating your contract by having this discussion here.

    And finally, your weirdest point: What’s up with that “you guys are no real sim racers” talk? You´re challenging us to race you – What are we, 12 years old? How about we just start comparing dicks, that’s the quicker way of settling this issue you seem to have.

    I don’t really see how beating me or Wix or whoever on track does anything for your credibility. We´re having a serious discussion about legal and moral issues and you want to settle this on track? What does that have to do with anything?

    Even if you´d drive in circles around me (you probably would because I´ve never claimed to be a very skilled racer…ever) that would add nothing to your credibility on these issues.

    I´ve been using sims since Indianapolis 500 for the x286, I´m a member of several sim racing communities for ten years now and I really don’t see why I have to back up my reputation of being a “real sim racer” as you call it by having an online race against you.

    I wish you would take the criticism that has been voiced here, on RSC and on other sites serious instead of looking down on all people that don’t agree with you. But it seems like the people signing your cheques are the ones that end up being right no matter what….

  • ZombieJim

    Darin… Way to devolve the whole thing to schoolyard fight. Seriously, challenging them to a race? You’ve not addressed any of the main points put to you in any way, just skirted around them while being hostile under a cheap veneer of faux reason.

    Do you really not have a single niggling doubt in the back of your mind that SRW and co might just not be the best way forward for the community?

    I’ve put up with the constant plugging in the show, but reading these comments, my respect for you is rapidly crumbling.

    paupau:
    Invite to compete, that’s a first. I’m sure it will solve problems, whoever takes 1’st wins this argument.

    Broadcast that shit live, I want to watch.

  • stabiz

    Wow, just wow. I am sad to see this becoming a pissing contest, the simracing community is not big enough for this.

    I`m with Montoya and Wix, tough, I dont see why news about a platform desiged to be open source should be limited to sites who clearly/maybe have commercial interests. Modding is supposed to be about passion among hobbyists, so what the **** is going on.

    Just to be clear, I like SRT, but I think teaming up with the dark side of the force is a bad idea.

  • Vettel

    Darin, very child argument about racers, you are going down, cya

    AaronC: Montoya/Wix – 1
    Darin Gangi – 0

    Montoya – 2
    Darin Gangi – 0

  • Ghoults

    Personally all I want and all I’d be happy with was that the video worked on the rsc site.

    As far as the whole srw thing goes I just hope there aren’t any legal problems heading this way.

  • Ghoults

    Just wanted to add that I think it is perfectly ok for rsc to have the video on their site exclusively. VirtualR can still write about it and provide the link, what’s the fuzz about that?

  • moppenheimer

    Vettel: Darin, very child argument about racers, you are going down, cya
    Montoya – 2
    Darin Gangi – 0

    Funny how you call someone chidish, yet make the most childish post in this thread…. :roll:

    Its funny Montoya should mention a dick measuring contest, because that’s pretty much what is already happening…. :weird:

  • Ghoults

    Sorry for tripple-posting, I don’t think I can edit my previous posts and I have something more to say :sd:

    Montoya:
    Your problem is that you seem to have forgotten who made you this big – The community! Now that the show is well-known, you´ve chosen to cash in and leave the community behind by not allowing people to watch the show on Youtube just like they used to.

    I think this is nonsense. Srt surely have all moral and real rights to host their videos whereever they want to. Even at srw-owned rsc. It is still available for everyone. (the player just doesn’t work properly yet but that’s surely just a problem they’ll fix soon)

    I must say it though. I don’t like if someone at virtualR took something from the source code from some other site and copypasted that on their own site. I don’t think that is right, especially when embedded version was not offered. However…

    I understand the reasoning for doing it though. With youtube and previous video host sites there was a non-exclusive embedded version available so it was kind of common sense to assume that embedding the video was ok for this video as well. Even if apparently it was not.

    I support both virtualR and srt and I certainly wish all the best for both.

  • Tigerteeth

    Indianapolis 500 for the x286 eh Montoya? – crikey, I can remember Revs on the C64! I feel practically archaic now amongst you young whipper-snappers.

    Someone can challenge me to a racing duel if they like, but I’m so bleedin’ old I’d probably take out half the field before the first corner.

    /lights pipe and puts on slippers (or maybe a pair of those racing booties, hmm).

    Where it all began for me – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVS_(computer_game)

    Now back to the topic in hand…

  • mike84

    so um how about that rfactor 2 :lol:

  • Shum94

    Talking of the virtual track wont do any good since i never understood wtf shawn is doing when he simrace, he appears to press more the brakes thna the throttle.

    Quiet pathetic

  • scca1981

    So now “Simraceway” controls RFC, RSC and SRT….. What site is next? Careful montoya they might try to buy you out! :roll:

  • scca1981

    mcmoha: I see RSC has already 79,419 members. How is possible?

    :eek: Good question.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com Arnold Carter Wong

    I also found that the new RSC is strange in posting news too. They don’t post most of the news from the famous teams(you can’t find news of WSGT2, CTDP, FSONE). All you can find is news from MMG and some very casual teams.

  • Austin Powers

    Guys am I allowed to watch the F1 Grand Prix of Australia on my own TV, or is it exclusively broadcasted anywhere?

  • erale

    jgmonty: Hi Darin:I’m not really sure it was fair to tell Rob that he doesn’t acknowledge sources. I also note that just because a mod is hosted on rFc, doesn’t give rFc exclusive rights to the mod, mods are hosted on many different sites, virtualr for the most part only provides links to the revelant sites.

    Well SRW does think they own every mod that was listed on rFC. Funny thing is Jonathan and his co-workers (if there are any) don’t even know who uploaded a mod on rFC on the first place or who participated in creating a mod. And even after MONTHS of writing mails to SRW that they should remove a certain mod they only respond if you threat them with legal issues. Then the mod in question is removed within minutes just to reappear after a few weeks again. Funny that Jonathan then claims that he never had any contact with a modder.

    Also SRW bought the rights to use the iDT stuff for commercial events. But how can they buy the rights from someone who doesn’t own them in the first place? They have no idea about licensing issues or user privacy. They just bought all you personal data you entered on rFC and reuse them without your ok on every new project. Nobody asked me if it’s ok if they could use my data from rFC. I don’t know the american law but in Germany you could get some serious trouble regarding these privacy issues.

    Sorry but these guys are messing up our community and money-hungry guys like Darin do support them.

  • DeDios

    scca1981: So now “Simraceway” controls RFC, RSC and SRT….. What site is next?Careful montoya they might try to buy you out!

    +1.
    I’m not able to reply in this IMHO interesting discussion (cause my poor english) but i’m totally agreee with Wix and Montoya.

  • Jack_NL

    Montoya: your weirdest point: What’s up with that “you guys are no real sim racers” talk? You´re challenging us to race you – What are we, 12 years old? How about we just start comparing dicks, that’s the quicker way of settling this issue you seem to have.

    Nah just trying to split a IRacing membership to ya :haha:

    Real exclusivity would some hot pics from Jessica!

    Always that f*cking money gdm

  • felipe

    ISRacing: You guys don’t like our content, simple solution.. Don’t watch and or.. create your own..
    Darin Gangi

    Man what a********************** you are! When I started reading the comment by ISRacing I was DAMN SURE it was you not Jess or Shaun and you know why?

    You are the most arrogant of the bunch (not that the other 2 are) and it was easy to figure out you were the one writing! You speak full of confidence as if you were some kind of celebrity which you are NOT.

    Your iRacing laps are a joke I’ve been playing the sim for less than 2 weeks and when comparing with your lap times I was very surprised to see how below average you are even though you have all those hi-fi sim gears.

    I seriously don’t get from where it get all this FAKE pride.

    Hope you Rob can learn from this and never mention those people here again!

    Edited in respect for Rasmus!

  • Rasmus

    felipe, are you always this immature? :roll: Swearing and calling other people motherf*ckers don’t do the discussion any good. This mud-throwing is the kind of thing that might make SRT not even want to come here to discuss this matter.

    Please keep the discussion sober, people.

    … although this has gotten a bit out of hand. SRT, I don’t know just how many viewers you have on your show, but my guess is that 90 % of those people often visit this site. I think you’ve just managed to lose half your fanbase in the last couple of days. Sponsorship by SRW was maybe not the smartest move, although tolerable, but THIS has taken past the line of good behaviour.

    Listen to what Wix and Montoya says (the only two with really relevant points in these comments) and begin answering those doubts – that way, you can possibly “win” some of your viewers back. Battling in out on track is NOT the way to go.

  • Zenitchik

    Finally, they have uploaded the video on youtube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM#t=43

    WiX made a very good point: its a free world. so i guess we have to love it, or leave it.

    mcmoha: I see RSC has already 79,419 members. How is possible?

    it is free to sign up and you cannot delete your account :haha: :haha:

  • Vettel

    I dont care about
    you!! I can say whatever i want, mooorooonn

    moppenheimer:
    Funny how you call someone chidish, yet make the most childish post in this thread….
    Its funny Montoya should mention a dick measuring contest, because that’s pretty much what is already happening….

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    felipe, whatever your disagreement might be with SRT, you really hit below the belt throughout your last post (and thats your so-called edited version).
    You dont edit it in respect of someone who complains about your post either. You do it out of respect of the person you’re insulting and being rude to.

    It’s so shameful and pathetic when posts like that drag the discussion down to that level. It’s totally unnecessary and immature.

  • Vettel

    ISR tv never did a review about CST pedals becauusseee………todd never sent a set to this guys. Just ask to them.

  • michael

    Well come on time for a reality check

    Surely we can all agree on these precepts :-

    (A) The so-called “sim community” is a tiny and insignificant collection of deluded buffoons and halfwits who have absolutely no influence on the racing game industry at all having lost any influence they had years ago.

    (B) Modders are people who aren’t good enough to make a real game. (Something Simbin’s laughable recent output drives home)

    (C) The 2 tits that attract viewers to SRT aren’t Shaun or Darin.

  • Rhys

    michael: Well come on time for a reality checkSurely we can all agree on these precepts :-(A) The so-called “sim community” is a tiny and insignificant collection of deluded buffoons and halfwits who have absolutely no influence on the racing game industry at all having lost any influence they had years ago.

    If you have such a low opinion of the sim community, then I see no reason for you wasting your time here.

  • paupau

    paupau:
    Invite to compete, that’s a first. I’m sure it will solve problems, whoever takes 1’st wins this argument.

    ZombieJim:
    Broadcast that shit live, I want to watch.

    I wasn’t pouring gasoline on fire you know, just attracting notice, somewhere along these words irony is being lost :wink:

    Seriously now, this hole thing is getting out of hand. If Darin runs his business the same, he’ll end up president(pointing out what a terrible debater Darin seems to be, missing the point completely). Maybe SRW had challenged him to a duel and he lost his publisher rights :roll:

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    If we filter out the occasional 12 year old and the swearing words out of this list of comments, it has actually been a very good discussion. I do understand that its on the edge and there will always be a Black and White side to the matter. However, it is a good thing to talk about what should be the invisible line of conduct , when it comes to rules we should all follow, but can not be inforced. Most of us got one thing in common… Montoya ,Darin, Shaun, you all , and myself all have the same passion. We all want to do well in what we love. It is very hard to draw a line as far as ethics go, because there is no such thing as a rulebook. Lets say that the negative events of the past year in the modscene have been following up each other.
    They all seem small issues by themselves , but combined they could have a large impact on what we can and can not do.All i want is that the mod scene as we know it , is able to exist. that existence might be in danger if we not all try to do our best to get along and dont try to cash in on the community efforts. Once a company should decide to take action , it would start a snowball effect, and we can all start looking for a new hobby. Some wont care.. but others would… Including me.

  • Tigerteeth

    I think a lot of this pent up frustration still stems from the acquisition of RFC by SRW. rFactor is a community based title that actively encourages modders to participate and make it as good as it can be. Without the great efforts of those mod groups who we’re all familiar with, rFactor would be an insignificant title – just think how many additional sales of rF2 will be made just by people following the WSGT2 blog (I’ll be one of them). Wix has already stated he enjoys the modding scene as a hobby, not as a source of supplementary income and that spirit is upheld by many in the rFactor community. Turning rFactor into a commercial venture has clearly created division that was foreseen by a lot of people, and so we end up with threads like this – very public fallouts between significant people in the sim racing scene who all share a common interest.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    michael: (A) The so-called “sim community” is a tiny and insignificant collection of deluded buffoons and halfwits

    Are you counting yourself in that group ? If so it’s hard to refute that comment when you actually write it because where you’re concerned its self-proving.

    Considering the maturity of the post, I’m just amazed you managed to get to (C). Now go learn the rest of the alphabet.

  • http://arseforums.com/phpBB/ r8response

    (A) The so-called “sim community” is a tiny and insignificant collection of deluded buffoons and halfwits who have absolutely no influence on the racing game industry at all having lost any influence they had years ago.

    Without this “collection of deluded buffoons and halfwits”, SRT, RSC, VirtualR etc wouldn’t exist.

  • Jos

    :lol: great post man, I totally disagree though but I had a good laugh from it thanks!

    michael: Well come on time for a reality checkSurely we can all agree on these precepts :-(A) The so-called “sim community” is a tiny and insignificant collection of deluded buffoons and halfwits who have absolutely no influence on the racing game industry at all having lost any influence they had years ago.(B) Modders are people who aren’t good enough to make a real game. (Something Simbin’s laughable recent output drives home)(C) The 2 tits that attract viewers to SRT aren’t Shaun or Darin.

  • f0xx

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

    Thanks for that Michael I was really having a very deppressive day.

  • Vettel

    I agree, removing the comments from babies to 12 years, we can clearly see that ISR did not want to share the video on youtube, by orders of RSC, ie SRW. It’s a shame not to watch the video of the most anticipated game in recent years, but sometimes life is not fair. This situation is leading to a great hatred for SRW, SRI and RSC.
    In the past I was a fan of ISR, but afterwards, when they began reporting has to do only games they were sent, the situation became difficult.

  • http://www.racedepartment.com Ramon van Rijn

    Hmmmm, so people here are not simracers :)

    I remember 2008 when Shaun and Darin signed in on RaceDepartment’s Touring Car league. Since they didn’t know or had time to skin a nice ISR skin, I took several hours of my free time to made something for them.

    Unfortunately those real simracers never showed up in this league they signed up for. (Btw, it was a league were even Greger Huttu drove a few rounds before he lost interest in isi-based simracing)

    Will the real simracer’s step up now!

    For the record: The userbase at RSC is exactly the userbase imported from rFactorcentral. You only need to recover your password, all your info is just right in. Talking about intellectual property taken from all of us who registered at rFC and now stolen by SimRaceWay/RSC.

    Sorry to say this, but SRW/RSC/ISR are now just a shame of my beloved simracing community.

    Thanks Montoya for having this free of charge platform for us :)

    Ramon van Rijn
    One of RaceDepartment Admin’s.

  • scca1981

    Ramon van Rijn: The userbase at RSC is exactly the userbase imported from rFactorcentral. You only need to recover your password, all your info is just right in. Talking about intellectual property taken from all of us who registered at rFC and now stolen by SimRaceWay/RSC.

    That explains why when the site came back I went to check it out and my email was already in use. Pretty shady thing to do actually. Oh well, another on the boycott list.

  • scca1981

    Kind of a shame the legacy of RSC tarnished by SRW. Would have rather seen it die peacefully.

  • Ghoults

    This discussion is getting pretty dull and not worth reading. Felipe’s and michael’s posts are some pretty rude personal attacks or some weird generalisations which have nothing to do with the situation or even sim racing. I find it sad that such things are said.

    There are countless examples of hobbyists who have gone and done very special things for their hobby only to found out they get bad stuff back. It wears them out and eventually they lose interest and quit. I’m not saying they should be free of all criticism, no. What I’m saying is that I would very much not want that to happen to isr. Or virtualr, autosimsports, nogrip, racedepartment or any of the countless valuable simracing sites.

    Reading these kinds of threads surely makes me wonder how these guys can keep doing what they do when this is the thanks? Constructive criticism and valuable feedback are things every sim racing site needs, this thread doesn’t have that.

    Now, I’ll go watch the isr show on youtube. Then maybe later tonight I’ll come here checking some simracing news and later on read some posts from some sim racing forums. Hopefully you all are here doing your valuable stuff when I come back for more. You guys rock. Don’t let these felipes and michaels get under your skin.

  • Ghoults

    oh, it’s not available yet on youtube. Saw the link few posts above and thought it was uploaded :shame:

    The player is still not working on the rsc site..

  • http://sommergemuese.klee.in Sommergemüse

    I could and should go the lawsuit – I registered some years ago on rfc.

    But I don’t want to be on SRW or RSC…

    I tried to write them a mail to remove me – but no response my account is still active…

    I hope all commercial things bleed out – and we can back to regular modding.

    BTW: I’m active in the ArmA/OPF Modding (NOT Dragon Rising!!) Community too. Never saw this sort of shit there like in Simracing… It’s really fun there to watch the forums wheres peoples helping each other and no fat cunts try to make money…

  • Firestarter

    This remains me of the demoscene where people made demos (realtime visual effects) for free ofcourse since it was a hobby, and then some other people sold those demos which ofcourse was a very unacceptable thing to do.

    Same thing happens now with the simracing modding scene. Some people takes advantage of other peoples free work and make business of it.

    Sad to see, but knowing humans, it doesn`t come as a shock.

  • http://www.racedepartment.com Ramon van Rijn

    I am tempting to post the PM Darin (ISR) sent me at my RaceDepartment mailbox. He is making a fool out of himself big time.

    Out of respect for Montoya/VirtualR and Darin himself I will not post it publicly for now. Don’t want to hurt Mr. Darin’s virtual ego any further. He is still tied to SRW/RSC which could damage.

    Lucky me, that I do everything for free regarding RaceDepartment and total independent from anyone. So we can still continue to love what we most love. Enjoying simracing and everything that comes with it.

    Thumbs up guys! :)

  • Redhawk

    So Darin, where’s Shaun and Jess to back you up here? Do they agree with you or are they too ashamed of your greed, arrogance and childishness? You look like a grown man (although your balls do need to drop a little further I think, judging by your voice) but you act like a 12 year old. “Won’t talk to me? I’ll challenge you to a race then! Cos then if I win I’ll be right and everyone will worship me.”

    This is a viewer that you’ve lost from ISRtv until Shaun and Jess vote you out. Oh wait, you need viewers to be successful? Should have thought about that before gobbing off like a whiny kid and offending your audience. Not so clever huh?

    What. A. Loser.

    I realise I’ve been personal in here – but jeez, the guy deserves it.

  • felipe

    ISRacing: You guys don’t like our content, simple solution.. Don’t watch and or.. create your own..
    Darin Gangi

    this says it all Redhawk and good question! Where’s Shaun and Jessica in all of this? I don’t want to start anything here but the way Darin put things he is the BOSS and speak for the whole ISR!

  • drdryvillage

    Amazing interview.
    One can see she knows what she is talking about.
    And the question about iracing made my day lol.
    It makes no sense in a rfactor2 interview :roll:

    This show is not any more about sim racing, its about money. WTF is that arcade bike game doing in it? Unfortunately it looks its the trend now in this show. I bet they got some good money to review good the DIRT2 car in top simulation (LOL!?) cars.
    Since the suspicious re-review of iracing cars they lost the credibility.

    Anyway, hope to put my hands fast in rfactor 2, it will be great for sure. rfactor, as it is now, is a great base start point to develop a even greater hardcore simulator. Hope they implement some friendly system to check for mods versions. But above all I hope they perfect the vehicle dynamics.

  • Ivo Simons

    Yeah that Arcade stuff is crap. If you dont have any simnews or related to it dont make a show.
    But now it’s all about the money so they need to make one every week even when there isn’t any news and only promote the “one click thiefs”

    Good to see the real simracers are backing eachother up and let those thiefs see that they don’t run the simrace community.

  • michael

    r8response:
    Without this “collection of deluded buffoons and halfwits”, SRT, RSC, VirtualR etc wouldn’t exist.

    A good point, but I don’t think we can blame the sim community entirely for that.
    The truth is, the vast majority of traffic that feeds these sites is for games that you all claim are crap because they aren’t sims :)

    F1Racer:
    Are you counting yourself in that group ?If so it’s hard to refute that comment when you actually write it because where you’re concerned its self-proving.Considering the maturity of the post, I’m just amazed you managed to get to (C).Now go learn the rest of the alphabet.

    F1Racer, I can only suggest you read your own comments about the sim community in the various F1 2010 threads. If I included you and me, that’s only 2 more isn’t it?

  • michael

    Ramon van Rijn: I am tempting to post the PM Darin (ISR) sent me at my RaceDepartment mailbox. He is making a fool out of himself big time.Out of respect for Montoya/VirtualR and Darin himself I will not post it publicly for now. Don’t want to hurt Mr. Darin’s virtual ego any further. He is still tied to SRW/RSC which could damage.Lucky me, that I do everything for free regarding RaceDepartment and total independent from anyone. So we can still continue to love what we most love. Enjoying simracing and everything that comes with it.Thumbs up guys! :)

    Oh please, get over yourself with your silly threats and innuendos about private messages. Next time you’re reading racedepartment.com check out Bram’s posts moaning about a lack of donations c/w his threats to make the service a pay one.

    He’s begging. That’s nothing to shout about. You can visit any city in England and find people in shop doorways begging for your money, I wouldn’t piss on them as some do, but I’m not about to shout about how great they are.

    If you work for them for nothing that just makes you stupid because in a thread full of accusations about folk “selling out”, it’s laughable to act as though racedepartment is an independent site.

    If you have any self-respect get a paying job with them.

    If you do anything worthwhile or worth paying for at racedepartment charge them for it. But, at any rate, don’t act like the service is some kind of altruistic site for the benefit of mankind whilst lauding yourself for working for free.

    It’s a site run by someone who doesn’t have the balls to charge and instead begs for money.

    iracing don’t do that, they provide a service and they openly charge money for it. That’s not evil or bad, that’s just a business. Your service simply isn’t as good and isn’t worth anything.

    The reason mods are free is simply because they are derived works. The (c) is owned by the company that made the game. Again, this has nothing to do with altruism or the kindness of mod authors.

  • mzso

    And now racesimcentral is down…
    Where can I watch it?

  • http://www.f1-sim-racer.co.uk f1lover

    My Biggest complaint is ……

    SOMEONE TELL GJON TO GET A HAIR CUT!!

    sorry thought a little bit of levity was needed here..

    Guys.. remember we all are on the same team.. Just different oppinions.
    Respect to all invovled.

  • jonneymendoza

    fucksakes where can i watch this video?

  • http://www.racedepartment.com Ramon van Rijn

    michaelOh please, get over yourself with your silly threats and innuendos about private messages. Next time you’re reading racedepartment.com check out Bram’s posts moaning about a lack of donations c/w his threats to make the service a pay one.
    He’s begging. That’s nothing to shout about. You can visit any city in England and find people in shop doorways begging for your money, I wouldn’t piss on them as some do, but I’m not about to shout about how great they are.
    If you work for them for nothing that just makes you stupid because in a thread full of accusations about folk “selling out”, it’s laughable to act as though racedepartment is an independent site.
    If you have any self-respect get a paying job with them.
    If you do anything worthwhile or worth paying for at racedepartment charge them for it. But, at any rate, don’t act like the service is some kind of altruistic site for the benefit of mankind whilst lauding yourself for working for free.
    It’s a site run by someone who doesn’t have the balls to charge and instead begs for money.
    iracing don’t do that, they provide a service and they openly charge money for it. That’s not evil or bad, that’s just a business. Your service simply isn’t as good and isn’t worth anything.
    The reason mods are free is simply because they are derived works. The (c) is owned by the company that made the game. Again, this has nothing to do with altruism or the kindness of mod authors.

    Uh, Michael. Get your facts straight mate. I am Admin of RaceDepartment. To mention it even further, I am one of the founders.
    So I know exactly what is mentioned. And if you read a bit better, RD is asking donations to survive every month. Because we are free and still have 3 dedicated servers to pay, without sponsoring.
    I also know that Bram did some ‘begging’ in the past. Reason: we have hundreds of racers using our free ‘service’ and only a few are willing to help cover the costs. Since we do this in our free time, we don’t want to pay for it also.

    So we are indeed very independent. If people stop donating, it will simply mean we (admins/staff) have to pay ourselves again, what we did in the past.
    It will also mean we probably have to bin 1 or 2 dedicated servers. Who cares, as long as I have the pleasure in organizing things for SimRacing, its okay.

    Guess what, I have a dayjob too. RD is just one of my hobby’s.

  • Tigerteeth

    f1lover: My Biggest complaint is ……SOMEONE TELL GJON TO GET A HAIR CUT!!sorry thought a little bit of levity was needed here..Guys.. remember we all are on the same team.. Just different oppinions.
    Respect to all invovled.

    Indeed. More hair based humour concerning Gjon’s luscious locks please guys…

    C’mon, don’t let me down ;).

  • David Laplante

    So…. if RaceSimCentral is THE ONLY place I am allowed to watch the footage, how come, when I go to that site, I get “Internal Error 500″.

    How on earth am I supposed to watch the footage now? has the site been hacked or could not handle the demand ?

  • http://www.f1-sim-racer.co.uk f1lover

    Ok one more, ….. (regarding the interview) DAM CLIP BOARD GETTING IN THE WAY!!!! :happyevil:

  • Vettel

    RSC IS DOWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

    Man what a coincidence…

  • David Laplante

    Simraceway too it seems

    guys head over to http://rfactor2.org/… they have it up !

  • holy_sword

    When i 1st came across the insidesimracing show i thought it was cool, then it became a crappy commercial, then it became eye candy with the chick and the big bongos.

  • ErnieBernie

    jonneymendoza: fucksakes where can i watch this video?

    –> http://www.polehunters.de/include.php?src=rFactor2_1.html

  • http://www.apatch.org Ahmad

    It looks pretty simple to me. SRW is trying to push out VirtualR from the sim-racing news scene, and try and draw the audience for sim-racing news to RSC.

  • f0xx

    Thanks for the link.

  • ric

    Ahmad: It looks pretty simple to me. SRW is trying to push out VirtualR from the sim-racing news scene, and try and draw the audience for sim-racing news to RSC.

    Well, then they have chosen the wrong way to do it.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Ahmad: It looks pretty simple to me. SRW is trying to push out VirtualR from the sim-racing news scene, and try and draw the audience for sim-racing news to RSC.

    Don’t go lighting fires where none are needed. SRW isn’t trying to push out VirtualR at all. What do you base that on, SRT’s videos ? SRW don’t cover the sim news anywhere near like VR does and one of the virtues of VR is doing this, being able to comment on the news articles.
    SRW can’t and shouldn’t even be trying to compete here. With their reputation so far they would lose before they even got started.

    michael:
    F1Racer, I can only suggest you read your own comments about the sim community in the various F1 2010 threads. If I included you and me, that’s only 2 more isn’t it?

    Hmmm, I see where you’re coming from but I think, in my case, I only think a section of the sim racing community has attitude problems. Yes they are spoilt, overly critical, cynical and, where F1-2010 is concerned, judgmental and pessimistic.
    But I wouldn’t call all of the community half-wits and buffoons because that is clearly not the case.
    So count me in as a half because I can’t completely disagree with you.

    On topic though, I’m seeing only 2 main issues with SRT right now..
    Firstly is that a good few people are uncomfortable about SRT being in bed with SRW. Thats on the one hand. Yet on the other hand they criticise SRTs content anyway so why are they caring so much ?
    SRW has not found favour with the community because of the way they have gone about their business plan. I must say, I fully understand the reaction and backlash to that. SRW has gone about setting themselves up in the wrong way.
    Using mods without permission for financial gain really breaks all the unwritten rules of the sim community and breaks the spirit of what modding is all about.
    It is understandable that if SRW are going to provide a big online racing service that it will cost and they do need to recoup some of that somehow.
    Thats fair enough. SRW just went about it the whole wrong way and from what I’ve read seem to be ignoring the requests of mod groups and authors to remove their content from SRW’s servers.
    SRT is sponsored by SRW so now it gets awkward. In the main I think most of us are fans of SRTs stuff or at least what they try to bring to us on a regular basis. But herein lies the 2nd point…
    SRT apparently cannot continue without some kind of funding either. So it now seems to be a case for some, that the friend of my enemy is my enemy.

    The other point regarding SRT is their content. It is definately less sim-based despite the name. You can classify anything as simulation if you wanted. Even GRID. But if we use the communities idea of what is sim and what isnt then we know we are talking rFactor, GTR2, GTR Evo, LFS, NKPro etc..
    I cannot remember the last time an rFactor mod was reviewed on SRT. F1-1985 and F1-1988 are out now. Are we going to see them reviewed ? Why are so many mods not being picked up by SRT ?
    If they have to rely on console games then it will definately lose the interest of many in this community.
    I too have no idea how or why that bike game got covered on the previous episode. It was cool, but somehow didn’t seem to fit in.
    I don’t want to watch and entire ep that covers console games and the only mention of rFactor or Simbin and Slightly Mad Studios is when they do Top Sim Cars.

    It’s disappointing to see this argument ensue but their is legitimate concerns here that should not be ignored.

    SRTs future is in their own hands and they’re not stupid so I hope it all works out and a solution can be found where we are all happy.
    Lastly, I will say that I feel video exclusivity really is going against the spirit of what SRT is about or what it was about when it first started. Moreso when that exclusivity lies with people that are out of favour with a lot of the community already.

  • drdryvillage

    Great post!

  • ShaunCole

    ErnieBernie: –>http://www.howdareyou.polehunters.de/include.php?src=rFactor2_1.html

    I have really tried to stay out of this topic for several reasons. The main one being is that Darin has stated my opinion rather well.

    But now I have a reason to be here and mad over something that I believe deserves real attention. And that is Piracy! To steal someones video for whatever reason and post it elsewhere without permission is breaking a sacred line in the world we live and play in. You can hate the show, you can call us whatever you want, but to steal content and post it, or to allow others to do so on your site just makes me mad on a new level.

    This is Bootlegging. And there is nothing you can say to defend that behavior.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Shaun, isn’t stealing someone elses stuff without permission exactly what SRW did with the mod makers ?

    I’m not condoning the video link of course, but now that you are mad about it, you can imagine how the mod makers feel about your new partners SRW.

  • Acestumacher

    Shaun what was the reason to have this video content for RSC only? to quote ISRacing ” They have it exclusively for a short period of time.”

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    ShaunCole:
    I have really tried to stay out of this topic for several reasons.

    A shame actually… something tells me we would have had the chance to make it a more constructive discussion with you instead of Darin. We all know that not all comments are as mature as they should be , but i would think that goes for all forums in the world. People should read between the lines and battle the topic at hand. ( without the usual swearing words ) Most SRT fans in here seem to feel that you would do a better job then your partner.

  • David Wright

    Just watched the show again at RSC – quality is now fine.

  • Baule

    Shaun, if you’re talking about sacred lines you should take a look on what your business partners do…

  • David Laplante

    Shaun, Darin, I think you guys do a good job. Please don’t let all this get to you. I hope this all settles down soon… it’s ripping the community apart.

  • http://simjunkies.org Marcus

    I hope to Hell that rFactor2 isn’t tied to Simraceway when it is released. If they try and force us to use SRW to play rFactor2 in any way, I will not buy the game.

    -No matter how excited I am for rF2.

  • migf1

    I don’t see this going anywhere. Both sides seem to stand by their initial positions, not willing to admit publicly the possibility they did anything wrong, ethics-wise!

    I mean, embedding & using exclusive content by getting it from the source code, is ethically not better than using free mods for profit. They are equally against ethics imho. Time will show which one is more tolerable by the community.

    I also believe that it’s within the rights of SRT (and everyone else’s) to distribute their own work any way they want. It’s up to the community to decide whether they’ll follow or not. Additionally, I don’t think SRT stuff owes to answer on behalf of SRW or being accused for actions taken by SRW. They neither run/manage SRW, neither hold any stocks of SRW as far as I know. They’re just sponsored by SRW and that’s all about it.

    That being said, personally I don’t like the route SRW has taken and also I don’t like the route SRT seems to be heading to lately. I agree with all who said their content is moving increasingly away from what sim racers are really interested in. To me, their choices clearly show they are after earning a living out of this show, and to do so they’ve chosen to move towards more massive target groups than sim-racers.

    It’s totally legitimate, even ethical. It’s their choice and they shouldn’t be blamed for it. After all they didn’t break any direct or indirect promise to the sim-community. They just didn’t live up to the sim-community’s expectations, but they never promised such a thing, did they?

    It’s up to the community to follow or abandon them. Either choice will be totally legitimate and ethical. As for me, SRT disappointed me, not because of their totally legitimate & ethical decisions regarding their content and its distribution, but because of Darin’s & Shaun’s attitude shown in this topic.

    Just my 2 cents

  • http://nightstalk3r.ath.cx NightSt@lk3r

    Just noticed SimRaceway are using pictures of my Model without asking, naughty naughty.

  • migf1

    Montoya, I think you should seriously consider adding an Edit Post option to the comments. I just discovered zillion typos and syntactical errors in my previous post :tongue:

    Anyway, I’d like to add that when I wrote above that Darin’s & Shaun’s attitude disappointed me, I mean that I was expecting them both to use a much more matured approach to this conversation.

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    I feel the need to clarify on the “embedding video issue” once again:

    I´ve been embedding SRT’s shows for years now, all of their shows have been embedded this way and this has never been frowned upon by the SRT people.

    Quite the contrary, I even opened an own category for their videos which they appreciated. Darin regularly responded to viewer comments here on past shows so there’s absolutely no way for them to now say they didn’t knew about this or didn’t want this.

    And all of a sudden, after 60 shows which I have embedded this way (plus providing back-links in every single story), it becomes a huge problem with show 61 and I´m as bad as people using mods for profit?

    Sorry, I don’t see the logic. I´ve never received any message from them prior to this incident saying that they don’t want me to embed their videos. I´ve never stole their content or claimed it was mine, I didn’t alter it or anything else. You could watch the videos here like you could on their site… so I don’t really see how it was unethical, especially considering they´ve been approving and endorsing this in the past.

    None of this will be a problem in the future as I won’t be promoting any of their efforts anymore, for the same reason I´m not covering anything SRW does. VirtualR is always looking to promote sim racing related efforts as long as the people behind them have the best interest of the community in mind. And from my point of view, that is not the case here anymore with the parties involved….

  • migf1

    I was under the impression that all their previous episodes were published on Youtube with the embed option free to use by anyone, meaning they were on purpose giving the right to anyone to embed their shows on external sites. Episode 61 was advertised as exclusive and publisehd as such, no Youtube, no embed option available to the public. Meaning they were on purpose not giving the right to anyone to embed this episode on external sites. In this case, the only way to put this episode on an external site was to fiddle with the html code of the page.

    They made a legitimate choice for their recent content, they changed their policy and made it clear. Obviously they wouldn’t welcome embedding in external sites. Providing the link to RSC was the right thing to do, embedding the esclusive vid was not (I hope you understand that embedding it automatically negates its exclusiveness ;) )

    If I’m wrong I apologize!

    Now, as I’ve already said in my previous post, SRT is increasingly slipping away from what I consider interesting or important content as a sim-racer. Actually I don’t watch all their shows any more, and even the ones I watch I just skip right to the parts I’m interested in and that’s it (for example, in Episode 61 I just watched the rf2 part and nothing else).

    Apart from the embedding thing of episode 61, I agree with most of your other points of view. I even don’t have any problems with your totally legitimate decision to rule them out of VirtualR. If I had to choose between VirtualR and SRT I would (and I am) choosing VirtualR, hands down ;)

    Montoya: I feel the need to clarify on the “embedding video issue” once again:I´ve been embedding SRT’s shows for years now, all of their shows have been embedded this way and this has never been frowned upon by the SRT people.Quite the contrary, I even opened an own category for their videos which they appreciated. Darin regularly responded to viewer comments here on past shows so there’s absolutely no way for them to now say they didn’t knew about this or didn’t want this.And all of a sudden, after 60 shows which I have embedded this way (plus providing back-links in every single story), it becomes a huge problem with show 61 and I´m as bad as people using mods for profit?Sorry, I don’t see the logic. I´ve never received any message from them prior to this incident saying that they don’t want me to embed their videos. I´ve never stole their content or claimed it was mine, I didn’t alter it or anything else. You could watch the videos here like you could on their site… so I don’t really see how it was unethical, especially considering they´ve been approving and endorsing this in the past.None of this will be a problem in the future as I won’t be promoting any of their efforts anymore, for the same reason I´m not covering anything SRW does. VirtualR is always looking to promote sim racing related efforts as long as the people behind them have the best interest of the community in mind. And from my point of view, that is not the case here anymore with the parties involved….

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    I´m sorry but it was not as clear as you might think. The title image with the “Racesimcentral exclusive” thing was added after they blocked the video from outside views, it wasn’t in the original video when I embedded it.

    The absence of the embedd option is no clear signal either. It was a new player software so I had no way to know whether or not the missing option was intended or just no supported by this software.

    Like I said, there was absolutely no indication for me to believe they don’t want this video to be embedded, especially considering I´ve embedded all their shows before.

    And thanks for the encouraging words, It’s nice to hear some people agree with my standpoint after all what has been thrown at me during the past days :-)

  • obmit

    With you all the way on this Montoya. It’s funny how some people turn round and “bite” the ones who helped to promote them. Darin & Shaun, prima donna’s taking it up the shitter from SRW ( AKA RFC, RSC ) all in the name of the mighty dollar :haha: . Hahahaa what a joke.

  • carbonfibre

    Sounds as though we could have a good old-fashion boycott on hand if the admins of VirtualR, bSim and RaceDepartment are all in agreement. Plus if SRT don’t post on youtube anymore, this could be rather amusing drop in figures for those corporate “Ignite Skill” bastards. :lol:

  • Bjorn

    I’ve been following the debate back and forth the past few days. Reading 140+ comments sunday evening was… something.

    In my opinion there’s been said some very valueable stuff here and there. I’d like to say I support Rob to the fullest in what he is doing and how he is handling the situation so far.

    migf1 is correct enough when saying it’s wrong to embed when it’s obvious it’s meant not to, but as Montoya said it wasn’t clearly stated before later in the process.

    Huge kudos to Wix for speaking his mind with very good points and I agree fully in all of your points. I am like you actually rather worried about what’s going to happen to the community when it as it looks right now is getting coloured alot by wishes of making some commercial stuff out of it and the problems modders can pick up due to that.

    Another thing is that SRW and RSC has taken our rFC.com accounts and just transfered them over to their system is worrying as well. I really don’t like that. Neither do I like how SRW is showcasing and putting CTDP mods up for download on their site (what I’ve come to understand from CTDP’s Dev-blog) when CTDP has written to them several times to get it removed cause they don’t want to be part of what SRW is doing. Plain wrong too.

    SRT is a show I’m a subscriber of but for how long? When SRT, which is a show I’ve watched a lot and enjoyed just as much, makes deals with SRW like the sponsoring and the exlusivity-thing that’s what it is, in my opinion – they can do what they want (I can have my thoughts about youtube being the better option for me but that’s it), but I’m very disappointed in the way Darin (especially) and Shaun has taken the criticism. I am wishing you guys would have taken part in the debate more open-mindingly. instead of doubting in the commentators of this “article” as not being real sim-racers and then be challenging them to do a race. You could have taken a greater part in the discussion, even if there has been posted some doubtful/immature posts along.

    Also F1Racer has come up with some good points. And I can see what you mean by the exclusivity-thing goes against what I too thought SRT was about.

    Lastly I’d say I’m actually fearing that the community and especially the modding community is getting dragged away from it’s orgin or roots and spirits where addons were made for free with no capitalized intentions and therefore were “under the radar”. I fear that the on-going evolution of the community is going in a way where we soon will be spotted on the radar – I’m not saying that it is how it’s going to happen but I fear it. I’m fearing the community is being ripped apart.

    I’d like to see Darin or Shaun to take a greater part in this discussion as there’s some very important issues here and there which they should take part in debating and not just set up a race to settle it all.

    Huge respect to you Rob, keep on doing what you’re doing. You and VirtualR.net a very important piece in this dynamic puzzle that is our community.

    Bjørn

  • Torino

    The funny thing about all the whining and complaints and boycot threats – and boy do we get a lot of that in this community – is that people dont seem to realize how futile it all is. At the end of the day market forces are what determine who succeeds and who doesnt in this great capitalist world of ours.

    So you may bitch and moan all you want about iRacing and Codemasters and SRW or what have you, at the end of the day if there is a market for what they do, they will succeed. If there isnt, they will fail. No amount of campaigning will significantly impact the results one way or another.

    Same goes for ISR and their shows; if they are wrong about showing what they´re showing the way theyre showing it, whatever audience they have will soon vanish, and soon so will their sponsorship deals. If they arent wrong, then they will keep doing what they are doing, and good on them for that.

    All there is for the individual to do is to vote with his wallet, or with his mouse clicks as the case may be, and hope that he´s not part of the minority. Because if he is, it´s unlikely that getting on a high horse to campain pro or against whatever will amount to anything beyond a waste of time.

    While discussions regarding the pros and cons of whatever initiative are natural and healthy, there is a line beyond which it becomes counter-productive to all involved. People in the sim-racing community seem to cross that line with an awful regularity.

  • ISRacing

    The reason I haven’t come back to this so called “community” is.. Who are you people ?? Do I know any of you personally ? Are any of you trash talkers adult enough to step out from behind your masks and expose who you really are and use your real names?

    How is a blog that one person writes and people comment on, considered a “community”.

    Just about every comment here that talked trash about me directly has broken the number one golden rule of sim racing.. no flaming.. Every one of you would be booted from any decent league in the sim racing world for your actions displayed here. Ramon.. You would be at the top of the list.. I can’t believe Race Department backs your actions.

    I’d like to see any of you Virtual R “community” dwellers come out and tell me why any one of your opnions is significant. WHO ARE YOU ?? Ramon from Race Dept is about the only one I know is real because, yes I did PM him. It was private and I used my real name. I could have posted it here, or at Race Department, but I chose to talk to him like an adult behind the scenes. He chose not to reply to me in private and instead comes here to flame me in the “community”

    “Montoya” .. Who are you and why is your opinion significant ? Are you Greger Huttu, David Greco, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Dave Kaemmer, Thomas Jackermeier, or even someone who has really sim raced. Like as in a competition? Who the heck are you ?? I’ve raced, met or interviewed all of the above and they are real people that sim race.. Who are you ? Some dude that posts sim news ?

    That was my reason for the earlier comment about racing.. Aren’t we all here to sim race? I figured going out on the track would be fun and put this BS to rest.. True sim racers, modders, developers and content providers don’t have time to feed into the vocal minority. Thats why I refuse to anymore.. Im not going to engage any one of you anymore, because again.. who the heck are you and why is your opinion significant? Take off the mask and then we’ll talk. My mask is off.

    No wonder hardware and software developers hide from the “community”. I think that term should be banned from sim racing. There’s not one community in sim racing anymore.. It’s completely severed. There’s at least ten.

    Over and over I have tried to cut this BS modding debate out and be a mediator between SRW and who ever is the leader of that “community”.. I’ve been part of modding teams, helped develop mods for SSCA endurance racing and know a good majority of the best modders and I just don’t get the bickering.. Can’t some kind of agreement or “Modders Guidlines” be created and adhered to? Maybe someone within “The Circle Of Trust” can come up with something..

    What are mods made for ?? To admire, or race ?? I was always honored when someone wanted to use our mods for events and I didnt care if they were going to charge money for their events and give out prizes.. Do any of you know what an undertaking it is to put on an event ? It should all be free though right ?? Cause you’re all entitled.

    The offer is still open to come on our show and have a healthy debate about modding, the community, whatever sim racing related. Isn’t that what the “community” wants? Don’t you want to know who’s opinion your listening to? MAtter of fact, anyone that has a webcam, or even microphone and wants to come and voice their opinion and represent this “community” on our show, the door is open. We’ll let you hide bhind your mask if you want.. lol

    I honestly can’t believe this all blew up over our right to host our video wherever we want.. Montoya.. You could have asked instead of digging.. All other embeds were right there for the taking.. If you would have asked, you would have found out that it will be available to all 7 days after it was at RSC.. Seven whole days.. Oh man.. What a tragedy… You poor deprived, underpriviledged community..Hey community.. your wait is a whole lot longer than 7 days to see rFactor 2 for real.. Why do any of you feel entitlted to our content ? Again… WHO ARE YOU ?

    I’d like to apologize to the civilized sim racers here that got caught in the crossfire of this war. It’s been going on behind the scenes for months and Im sorry I couldn’t stay quiet and if I offended.. I promise you will not see reference to this crap on the show. It’s not worth the air time. A healthy debate with real people, we’re all for and could make for a great story.

    I truely apologize to anyone that had trouble viewing the show. It’ll be up this Friday the 2nd on You Tube for those that didn’t get to see it. I don’t like that fact that even one viewer had problems with the feed and Im truely sorry.

    Montoya, please do me a favor and remove all of our content and the section you put up to keep traffic here at your site. I would prefer that our show has no association with a “community” like this.

    I expect you to respect my request, just as you expect SRW to bow to your every request to have mods removed from their site.

    Don’t bother flame bating, trolling, whatever you want to call it, I will not respond to someone without a real name, face or voice nor will I resort to engaging someone that doesn’t really exist. If you’d prefer to stay here with your masks on, talking about sim racing in your Virtual world..Thats fine.. I’ll be actually doing it, against real people, with real names.. Feel free to look me up.. You know my name and know where to find me..

    Darin Gangi

    P.S. If you’d like to read unbiased / original content from sim racers without masks on or agendas, head to RaceSimCentral.com

  • felipe

    link to youtube rfactor 2 interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LmWOIswYKQ

    ISRacing: P.S. If you’d like to read unbiased / original content from sim racers without masks on or agendas, head to RaceSimCentral.com

    LOL so you basically come here to call this place biased and without any ethics tell viewers here where to go to get “unbiased/original” content? Man you really lost it!

  • felipe

    btw feeding news is COMPLETELY legal just check out http://www.n4g.com as they are the biggest example of hundreds I could give!

    ISRacing: Who are you people ?? WHO ARE YOU ?? Ramon from Race Dept is about the only one I know is real because, yes I did PM him.

    btw We are all people who love sim racing :roll:

  • GeraArg
  • SergeantBoner

    FFS Darin, you have completly lost yourself in your own ego.

    This isnt about who’s who or whom we have raced, talked, meet etc. You know I dreamt many years ago that there was a show on my TV which was all about Simracing, kinda like Top Gear meets Simracing. And when I heard about SRT I was surprised and excited, but when watching the first episode I saw what a total comedy it was. After some episodes you brought in a third presenter who I guess was only choosen for her assets, because she seems vaguely interested in whats on the agenda.
    All you do on the show is having your cap back to front and nodding your head and giving everybody thumbs up like some NASCAR-driver. I never take anything you say on the show serious because you guys have no credability. I dont know who you guys are? You are just some boring americans trying to push your american lifestyle and ethics into simracing if you ask me. And this whole thing is stupid, my life wasnt better after your interview with Gjon(nothing against him) but that segment sucked. If I send my turd to you guys with 50$ will you review it for me please? and give it the best score possible, K THX BYE!

  • Niksound

    ?!?!

    all crazy here?

    What is the problem? if RF2 will’be a good game… this will’be.

    Here all crazying =)

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    ISRacing: The reason I haven’t come back to this so called “community” is.. Who are you people ?? Do I know any of you personally ? Are any of you trash talkers adult enough to step out from behind your masks and expose who you really are and use your real names?
    How is a blog that one person writes and people comment on, considered a “community”.
    Just about every comment here that talked trash about me directly has broken the number one golden rule of sim racing.. no flaming…..

    After this reply , i must say, it is going to be very hard to ever take you serious again. This might have been a chance for you to show that you really have the intension to look at the big picture, and to prove that you are worth listening to. For some reason that last comment seems even further away from what i had expected. You clearly have no idea , or respect for the problems at hand.
    The fact that you jumped on the easy income train, is disappointing , but your proven right. The fact that you dont understand the difference between a Modding Scene and A simracers scene proves you are the wrong man in the wrong place.

    Like i said before, Your ego will probably not allow it, but when you come to your senses, let Shaun do the talking … you would benefit from it.

    At lest you lost my respect. Succes with the show. I hope it will survive your ego.

  • DeDios

    IMHO VirtualR is one of best place for simmers (like BSIM, Racebit.de and few others). After this discussion is even more.
    Rob, keep up your great work without change anything. I’m sure VirtualR continue to be one of main references for sim world.
    :wink:

  • http://arseforums.com/phpBB/ r8response

    What a tool, thankfully he won’t be posting here again.

  • http://www.apatch.org Ahmad

    Lol.. seriously? Did I just read what I think I did? Darin, you’ve completely lost your marbles mate, talk about arrogance, acting like a pompus 12 yr old. You’ve just lost any credibility or respect you ever had to all sane thinking people.

    Needless to say, I’ve unsubscribed myself from your YouTube channel. Will it make a difference? Probably not, but at least I feel better for doing it.

    Rob, keep up the good work, you’re my main news site for sim racing, especially rFactor mods and tracks. Thanks.

  • moving-target

    Darin Gangi,

    who are you to behave that conceited and agressive? Is this your way to argument by simply telling people you are BIGGER?

    Yes, YOUR mask is off. A mature guy, playing computergames, unwilling to controll his choleric manner when it matters. That’s not OK. Not here and not anywhere else.

    I see you interrupting Jessica and Shaun all the time in the show . Now you come here and start flaming like the poeple I’m used to ignore.

    That’s sad.

    Man, you really need more self-confidence to read over some comments.

    I hope for your wife and family that you can do better.

  • erale

    @Darin Gangi:

    Who are you people ?? Do I know any of you personally ? Are any of you trash talkers adult enough to step out from behind your masks and expose who you really are and use your real names?

    Do we know YOU? Just because you reveal your real name doesn’t make you more authentic than anyone else. Behind every nickname is a real person with a real opinion. Also just read the credits of some of the mods that were released for rFactor, GTR2 etc. and you could connect the nicknames of most of the modders with their real names. But that probably would mean to use a modders installer…

    “Montoya” .. Who are you and why is your opinion significant ? … I’ve raced, met or interviewed all of the above and they are real people that sim race.. Who are you ? Some dude that posts sim news ?

    So’re you’re saying you’re more important than Montoya because you met the Who-is-Who of the simracing? Sorry but what does that proof? Do you know any modder except Yanden? Oh I know modders suck and what have they done to help your community afterall?

    What are mods made for ?? To admire, or race ?? I was always honored when someone wanted to use our mods for events and I didnt care if they were going to charge money for their events and give out prizes.. Do any of you know what an undertaking it is to put on an event ? It should all be free though right ?? Cause you’re all entitled.

    It’s ok if you didn’t care if someone is using your work for commercial events without asking for your ok. But don’t act as if your opinion is the only one that counts. You or SRW are certainly not the leader of the community and don’t have any right to use other peoples work to benefit from. I bet most modders wouldn’t have had any problems (as long as they’re not used for commercial events) if they were asked but your employer never sought the conversation with the modders. And still you blame the modders call them suckers behind their back? Nice one…

    Regarding that commercial events: that’s still something you people don’t get. Do you wan’t to get sued for using trademarked names/logos/etc for your commercial events? Or would SRW just pass the ball to the modders which never wanted their mods to be used in commercial events? Seriously what would happen in such a case?

    Montoya, please do me a favor and remove all of our content and the section you put up to keep traffic here at your site. I would prefer that our show has no association with a “community” like this.

    I would appreciate that as I think that most of your hits came from Montoyas blog.

    Stefan Triefellner

    PS: If I want to read biased MMG/SRW news I will definitely visit the new RaceSimCentral.com

  • Ivo Simons

    Damn Darin. Sorry to say it but you really lost it with your latest post.

  • DeDios

    eraleStefan Triefellner

    Oh yes, you’re right, in my past post i forgot to write my real name: Diego Colafabio.
    For some guys seems to be important.

  • http://www.ctdpworld.org Neidryder

    @ Darin

    Ok I kept my mouth shut for a long time concerning this topic but now it really starts to piss me off. I totally agree with Wix, Erale and Rob (Montoya).

    Darin, you’re saying that we are nobody just because we don’t have “famous” names like Dale Earnhardt!? Or meet these people? Just standing in front of a camera and publishing youtube videos doesn’t make you to a great person at all.
    You should be damn thankful for all the modders here which provide you with FREE content. Without this modders and this community (which sucks…. you said that more than one time…) you wouldn’t have anything other than the stock content of rF1 to play with.

    You are talking about the “golden rule” here in the community. “no flaming” … what do you do? Isn’t that flaming?

    You have proven again, that you have no idea about the community, about the modders and the golden rules of the community. Nobody is hiding behind his desk. As the SRW boycott shows, the “who is who” of the modding community is standing together against

    And you don’t get the problems which are caused by such commercial events on SRW. As Erale said, what will happen if SRW gets sued for using trademarked names/logos/etc for your commercial events? I’m pretty sure the modders will pay the bill in that case. It’s their fault to release such mods into public, right?

    We all know what consequences that will cause…. no mod releases…. and then, the whole community pays the bill for some guys who want to make money out of other peoples work………..

    Same with the user accounts from rFc…. You’re violating privacy and currently a group of guys are checking if they can do anything against it together with a lawyer…..

    And I’m pretty sure that 80% of the community wouldn’t have recognized the video release without rob’s news post!

    Have a nice day…

    Andreas Neidhardt aka Neidryder (Team CTDP).

  • http://www.racedepartment.com Ramon van Rijn

    ISRacing:
    Just about every comment here that talked trash about me directly has broken the number one golden rule of sim racing.. no flaming.. Every one of you would be booted from any decent league in the sim racing world for your actions displayed here. Ramon.. You would be at the top of the list.. I can’t believe Race Department backs your actions.

    Ramon from Race Dept is about the only one I know is real because, yes I did PM him.It was private and I used my real name. I could have posted it here, or at Race Department, but I chose to talk to him like an adult behind the scenes. He chose not to reply to me in private and instead comes here to flame me in the “community”

    My mask is off.

    I expect you to respect my request, just as you expect SRW to bow to your every request to have mods removed from their site.

    Don’t bother flame bating, trolling, whatever you want to call it, I will not respond to someone without a real name, face or voice nor will I resort to engaging someone that doesn’t really exist.

    Some people just don’t learn. :)
    Darin, you send me a PM via RaceDepartment. I have sent a reply back to both your PM’s. You asked to mail it, because you did not want to visit RaceDepartment once more. Then, why didn’t you mail it in the first time? You have both my mail addresses. The one in MSN, yes you have me on MSN! and the one I did donate your show with in the past. Visit your own donation page to see me, your trustful sponsor from the past :)
    So don’t accuse me of not responding. I responded back with the same medium you send me the PM. Its up to you not bothering opening it. And since I did not reveal anything in this ‘mature’ PM, it still stays private like in Personal Message.

    Lucky me I only talk the truth and don’t lie things together. Much easier to continue this debate :)

    Your mask is indeed very off. After two years we finally see the real Darin Gangi. One big frustrated man who can’t stand criticism.

    You expect Montoya to respect your request, just as you expect SRW to bow to mod removal requests which they don’t. So basicly you say Montoya, ignore my request :) But I got the point :)
    Same goes for RD, we will stop promoting SRT in every way. You deserve your own clicks. Do something wise with it :)

    Since I did signin with my real name, as always, you should read this; according your own new set of rules.

    For me, I just stick with VirtualR as my internet starting point of the day :)

  • Redhawk

    Again I am afraid to say Darin that you are, indeed, a prick. VirtualR continues to be a quality news site and I will continue to visit. Your actions are the final nail in the coffin on my part for SRT, SRW and RSC. I refuse to ever visit these sites again.

    As real names are so important to you (how do WE even know Darin is your real name ffs – not hard to use a fake one, yes I know that’s being pedantic, but see my point), here’s mine.

    Ryan Callan
    RD Staff

  • http://simjunkies.org Marcus

    ISR/SRT have shown their true colors here.

    ISRacing (Darin?), you are a pompous fool to think that guys like Huttu and Earnhardt have been your main audience the last 60 episodes!

    In reality your audience is in this community, and those like the one Ramon comes from. Why are you surprised that RaceDepartment.com backs Ramon? Are you so delusional that you think RD or any other league site should fear you?

    You have attacked the very base of the Sim racing community, and unwittingly insulted anyone who has turned a virtual wheel. Who do you think is buying all the products you guys get sent to review? It certainly isn’t the elite few you chose to name.

    You need to understand that true communities don’t need to pander to the ‘big boys’ with ‘financial backing’ in order to survive. You can have SRW and your financial support. Unlike you, we aren’t out to get internet famous. We just want to race.

    You challenge the community here to make our own show? Good idea, that is something I know we can easily do. We have the talent, and now we suddenly have a reason.

    On my sites I will not discuss ISR, link to ISR, or visit the ISR site until the person responsible for the comments posted by ISRacing on this article issues an apology or is removed from ISR.

  • gpfan

    Well, finally you get to know the real Darin, since SSCA league where i raced with my old team i saw Darin with no good eyes, so for me is not something new. He posted what he is in fact, a arrogant and someone who is not intrested to promote simracing but mainly to promote himself and his “freinds”.

    I will stick with VirtualR for one reason and only, Montoya promotes Simracing in all his glory!!! Amen!!! You are the Men!!!

    Tiago Guerreiro

  • stabiz

    Its actually hard to beleive what I have just read here. PR suicide.

  • jgmonty

    All I can add is WOW!!!

    My name is John Montgomery, I am 46 years old.
    As CIO of a large multi-national who has had responsibility for operations in 12 countries and since as CEO for a Media company, I consider and have proved myself countless times over a long career to be a professional.

    I have been involved in Sim Racing off and on since the early days of Papyrus as well as real racing for many years. Motorsport has been my passion for as long as I can remember.

    I have no need to hide now, or ever from anyone, as has been inappropriately suggested.

    I have come to my own conclusions based on hard earned, real world experience as well as partly on some of the immature responses I have had the misfortune to read in this thread, and won’t further waste any effort in responding directly on air or off to them, other than to say I’m extremely disappointed by the position and attitude taken, especially by a certain individual.

    Rob, Virtualr and yourself have my full support, as do those that have attempted to behave in an appropriate manner…

    As for any of childish comments I have seen, I have no doubt, they were actually written by children or at least, “very” immature adults and as such should be ignored.

    With disgust,

    John Montgomery
    aka jgmonty

  • aj_1986

    I was left absolutely speechless after reading that last post by Gangi.

    Nothing has really been left to say, however; I agree with, and would like to reinforce the validity of, every single post since then.

    In particular, Marcus Jaeger’s post was spot-on in every aspect. Who the hell do you think has been watching your last 60 shows? That’s right – the ‘community’ that you seem so keen to bash. Not the ‘luminaries’ that you mention (who exactly, outside of sim racing’s online presence, has heard of Huttu, Greco et al?). To fail to see that is catastrophically ignorant.

    Finally, to make my opinion ‘significant’, under your preconditions:

    Andy Jones
    A real person, with a real life, a Master’s degree and a valid opinion.
    Here’s my Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/andy.j1986

    As you’ll see, my face is completely mask-free. :roll:

  • Lenniepen

    @Darin,

    Who am I?
    Lennart Lippens. I’m just a simracer. Nothing more, nothing less. I drive sims and am interested in sim-news.
    Nobody in the ‘community’ knows who I am. So what? I never made a mod or whatever, so what? You probably never raced me, so what?
    I your opinion I therefore don’t exist and am not allowed to have an opinion about your show?? If I understand you correct, you say that you only produce your SRT-show for your ‘known-community’? That’s 5 people then. Great. Good luck.

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    Darin, my name is Noel Hibbard. I have donated to your show, RSC, NoGrip, own multiple copies of rFactor just to donate some money I rent iRacing yet hardly race with it, again, just to help support. I own every sim out there practically. I also took over an rFactor league (SRRS Racing) a little over a year ago which consumes most of my free time. I am probably just a nobody in your eyes but still part of our community just like everyone else here. Everyone does there share in the community. You do your share running your show, some do videos, and some do modes… some bitch all the time and some add constructive criticism. Montoya (Rob) is a real person; his roll is big if you ask me. He works his butt off for this community. He has always promoted your content (not the other way as you seem to think). I doubt his hit count will drop from removing your content but I wouldn’t be surprised if your hit count does.

    I personally don’t have a problem with people getting compensated for the services they bring. I loved the Xmas1000 and all the hotlap comps that RFC did in the beginning. I was excited about SRW but they didn’t handle things correctly with the community and ended up crushing all hopes of succeeding.

    Anyways, I am very disappointed at your reactions here. I figured someone who is somewhat making a career out of this and needs the communities support would be a little more graceful in their choice of words.

  • Richard Torp Jensen

    Darin – I love your show :) I`ll keep watching mo matter where it`s uploaded and who your sponsors are.
    I can fully understand your reaction.
    Keep the spirit high…

  • Vettel

    Ohh Darin, what a jerk! VirtualR visits around 15000 per week! ISRTv, you are not in the list, maybe for any fear you have removed the link.

    I think people who is following this website deserves some respect, its clear now that Darin do not have any respect for anyone, even for Shaun or Jessica. You do not have any credibility, and I think you have to leave the show on behalf of Shaun and Jessica.

  • http://martin.sahlstroms.net MartinS

    Hello.
    I just registered here, so my opinion should perhaps be taken with that fact in mind. Well, I’m a 20 year old Swede studying informatics and have been simracing for 7-8 years.

    However, I think the simracing community is too small for conflicts like this. So please keep the discussion on a high level, with respect for both parts. Darin actually has some good points there – it’s easier to shout things out if you can “hide” under a nickname. Personal things like family and stuff usually doesn’t add to the discussion, keep it relevant… But remember, you can still have valid opinions even with an alias!

    I have enjoyed ISR for quite a while. I always thought their goal was to reach an audience as large as possible, but clearly this isn’t the case any more.
    I think ISR-web-tv combined with news VirtualR-style working together would be mega. And there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

    /Martin Sahlström
    BTW, hi Richard :)

  • http://historicgt.8.forumer.com Rantam

    Come on, didn’t this go a bit far guys? Is it really so critical if that video was an exclusive of one site, whatever its name is?

    Let’s cool it down. This was about rF2, do you remember the topic? I’m wondering if ISI guys think we’ve got nuts or what. For sure I didn’t expect to see this kind of comments in a thread about the first video of the much expected rF2.

    Don’t get messed on this war of words has not benefit at all. I’m sure we all have better things to do than doing that and we can solve any misunderstanding/conflict as grown up people. Luckily there’s no virtual pillow to hide a gun, otherwise some shots would already be flying around ;)

    The approach of SRT/ISR, VirtualR, RSC, rFc, SRW and any other community (being a community just a group of guys with similar interests/goal, sharing a common place, real or virtual) is basically the same: be a service for those interested in simracing, with their own flaws and benefits, using their own way of doing things (you may like it or not, of course).

    Simracers, modders (was ‘funny’ to read “…Modders are people who aren’t good enough to make a real game…”), community site staff, whatever. We’re all are people sharing this same interest (yes, simracing) and unless we like this kind of awful environment we should at least drive ourselves behind the steering wheel of respect, keeping old or private issues behind. Good to see that, despite all, there’s still a good amount of people doing it, and having a constructive discussion :)

    Going back to the topic, I’m very glad Gjon has shown us how rF2 looks. I think it’s going to be a big improvement over rF1, and despite it will have some flaws (as anything in life has) is going to be a step forward for the modding community.

    Just my two cents,

    Cheers

    Ps. Dude, I guess I’m getting older. Look the pink piece of post i wrote :lol:

  • http://www.racedepartment.com Ramon van Rijn

    It is indeed going too far.

    For what I understand, VirtualR (and other sites) embedded a video which was apparently exclusive for RSC/SRW. If VirtualR and other sites knew this, I cannot judge.

    What I do know; the easiest thing RSC/Darin/who-ever had to do was pointing Montoya/Rob (and other sites) to the words ‘exclusive’ and ask them to remove the content, since this part is not free.

    I am sure every site admin would agree and remove it asap, even with apologizes.

    Why Darin walked another path and asked it in comments and started offending people in general, I don’t know.
    And since I am a long time reader of VirtualR and felt offended by Darin’s words I replied of course. This is still a free world… sort of.

    In return I received a PM on my own site which was honestly written completely out of proportion and flaming every bit in the universe for whatever reason. Seems like I did something wrong to Darin in my response here which I have read several times to figure out why.

    The only ‘not-so-nice’ words I said was “Sorry to say this, but SRW/RSC/ISR are now just a shame of my beloved simracing community” because we were accused of being no real simracers, and we all know the way SRW deals with mods.

    If Darin was not so trigger-happy, we could have some nice discussion. Still he preferred the wrong way and trying to attack several people and trying to humiliate me in public in one of his last comments. I guess I deserved it :)

    IMO he is only damaging ISR with these words, and as a representative of RSC/SRW I would have been more friendly.

    How to resolve? I guess only by fading away.

  • Gord Jeannotte

    Darin, unfortunately some posters couldn’t control their hatred for SRW and used this petty excuse to direct their anger at you. I’m sure you realise that a small minority of the sim community is always happiest when there is a fued to engage in and VirtualR seems to have their fair share of instigators.

    As a long time viewer of your show, I just wanted to assure you that your opinions here echo those of us who are tired of the bickering that continues to fracture this community. Hopefully, the bitter few will continue to boycott all sites until they’re left racing against each other.

  • Yutja

    well Rantam is right! this has gotten out of hand and shifted in a really wrong direction.
    Still it seems that there are some “community-problems” which have appearently been around for some time now….
    Unfortunately Darin´s last post was very, very unwise in regards to his position and the PR for SRT. The problem is that most people see Darin´s response in his function as an anchorman of SRT and not as a private dude who enjoys simracing. If he of course made this response as a simracer AND a “internet-tv-personality” representing SRT I must admit that the show is, even more than before, dead for me!

    Of course, this is irrelevant to them or anyone else here, but still, in the long run, they need people who watch that show and click on the “one-click-install”. Since I am lucky enough to be part of one of the nicest modding groups, around I or we also depend on the “community” more than the average simracer…. There is so much power, knowledge and energy in these communities that it is really a shame that most energy is lost while debating who is right or wrong…. in the end, if it wasn´t for Darin or Rob, Gjon or Kaemmer, Simbin or Reiza and all the modders and modteams outthere we would still be playing arcade-racing-games with homemade steeringwheels……

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    I have to say how disappointed I am with Darin’s last post. As if it’s not bad enough that this argument has erupted in the first place, Darin makes another post that, quite literally, left me shaking my head. I would have preferred him not to have posted again at all rather than that.
    I don’t think I could look at another SRT episode and see Darin in the same light again. To me, that’s a shame.
    I’ve watched every single SRT episode and I probably will keep on watching but future eps are going to have a slight bitter taste to them for a little while.

    ISRacing: The reason I haven’t come back to this so called “community” is.. Who are you people ?? Do I know any of you personally ? Are any of you trash talkers adult enough to step out from behind your masks and expose who you really are and use your real names?
    How is a blog that one person writes and people comment on, considered a “community”.

    Who are we people and do you know any of us personally. Hmmm. Is that the criteria then ? Do we have to personally be known to you in order to get a civilised response from you ? Well I can tell you who the vast majority of us are… YOUR AUDIENCE !
    What difference is using peoples real names going to be ? We are still just posts on a blog. But real name or nickname, we are real people with feelings and opinions just as you are. What are you going to do with our real names ? Look us up in the phone book, find out where we live and come around and beat us up ? It makes no difference. In the same way it would have made no difference if SRT was produced by 3 people using nicknames. You know we are real and using nicknames doesn’t change that. Its how things are around here.
    VirtualR does not represent the entire sim-racing community as you are mistakenly alluding to. This is ‘just a blog that someone writes and people comment on’ but for what it is, it gets a big audience and I’m willing to bet theres quite a large gap between the amount of sim-racers who read this site to the number that actually post on a regular basis.
    Don’t think VirtualR is a collection of 20-30 trash-talkers, as you so eloquently put it.

    Just about every comment here that talked trash about me directly has broken the number one golden rule of sim racing.. no flaming..

    Somehow I don’t think the No.1 golden rule of sim-racing is – no flaming. Something which you then went on to do yourself in your post. The majority of your post was flame-bait.
    Besides, you should really be ignoring the stupid insults on here and address those who have posted in a more civil manner. I don’t agree with people hurling insults at you either. It’s too low and it drags down the topic and doesn’t help those who are trying to work this thing out more diplomatically.
    So I hope people do put their raw emotions to one side and cut out the insults guys. It doesn’t help anything and makes you look like that’s all your intellect could summon up to say.

    I’d like to see any of you Virtual R “community” dwellers come out and tell me why any one of your opnions is significant. WHO ARE YOU ??

    Oh dear, this really isn’t thoughtful, Darin. Let me just say that everyone’s opinion on here is just as valid as your’s or Dale Earnhardts.
    Who are we ? Again… we are your audience man. A lot of us reading VirtualR had some hand in providing the content that you USED to use in your show before you went all console and commercial.
    Our opinions, when posted in a civil way, are significant because we represent your audience. That should be enough of a reason. While we are not your entire audience it is fair to say that as VirtualR is one of the top hitters of sim-racing sites and certainly one of the most popular, if not THE most popular, I’d say some significance should be attached to what is being said here, especially as you can see this ‘severed’ community as you call it seems to be getting a bit more cohesive now as it seems most of us are standing together in this.

    “Montoya” .. Who are you and why is your opinion significant ?Are you Greger Huttu, David Greco, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Dave Kaemmer, Thomas Jackermeier, or even someone who has really sim raced. Like as in a competition? Who the heck are you ?? I’ve raced, met or interviewed all of the above and they are real people that sim race.. Who are you ? Some dude that posts sim news ?

    Darin, Montoya (Rob) is a guy who has managed to start a blog about his hobby of sim-racing and very quickly turn it into the most popular sim-racing news site on the web. It seems there are figures on websites to back that up too.
    The difference between Rob and yourself is that since he started and to this day, he doesn’t have sponsors paying him to provide his service. It’s a one man show that he runs very successfully and while VirtualR may just be the result of a guy that posts sim news, what is CNN ? Probably more than one guy obviously, but all they do is post news and videos.
    Don’t slag off VirtualR for what it is. SRT is just 3 people TALKING sim news (and I use sim in the loosest sense of the word).
    Sad as it may sound to some, VirtualR is the site I first click on in the day and I visit here a few times a day and last thing at night. I’m sure I’m not alone in doing that.

    I was always honored when someone wanted to use our mods for events and I didnt care if they were going to charge money for their events and give out prizes.. Do any of you know what an undertaking it is to put on an event ? It should all be free though right ?? Cause you’re all entitled.

    If you felt honoured, thats great. It is an honour when that happens.
    But SRW isn’t an event. It stages events which are no different to going multiplayer in rFactor or GTR2. The only difference is there is prizes and/or money.
    How much of an undertaking it is, is irrelevant. We didn’t ask SRW to set themselves up like this and they should not be using mods without peoples prior approval of which I’m sure they would have got if they’d asked first.
    Forgive me Andreas if I’m speaking out of turn here, but I`ll bet if given the opportunity to legitimately make money from their CTDP mods, they would do it.
    If for no other reason than to pay back the people who worked had on their mods.
    But they don’t. Why ? Because they know they can’t. So why the hell are they, or anyone else, supposed to keep quiet while someone else does albeit indirectly.

    The offer is still open to come on our show and have a healthy debate about modding, the community, whatever sim racing related. Isn’t that what the “community” wants? Don’t you want to know who’s opinion your listening to? MAtter of fact, anyone that has a webcam, or even microphone and wants to come and voice their opinion and represent this “community” on our show, the door is open.

    Why would you want trash-talkers on your show ? Who are we ? A severed broken community, a vocal minority. We don’t have famous names in the real world so what credibility could we possibly have ?

    While that offer is generous I get the impression that no-one will take you up on it now, especially after your last outburst which was so disappointing.
    If anyone is brave enough to step up to the plate then good on them but I hope it is realised that they will not necessarily be speaking for everyone. They’d have to be some kind of elected spokesman I suppose.

    I promise you will not see reference to this crap on the show. It’s not worth the air time.

    I disagree. I think the SRW thing and SRTs new involvement with them which has resulted in your video’s now being exclusive for a week and that to view it requires sign-up to a site that leeches peoples mods for profit without permission has more value as air time and a stupid bike game as was featured in your last show.

    I expect you to respect my request, just as you expect SRW to bow to your every request to have mods removed from their site.

    If Rob takes down your stuff, how is it that he would be ‘respecting your request’ but yet mod authors wanting their stuff pulled from SRW is them ‘bowing down to our request’.
    Are you therefore wanting Rob to bow down to your request ?

    Lastly, don’t talk about not having agendas. VirtualR is far less guilty of that than anything connected with SRW/RFC/SRT.

    I do agree it is a shame that things have erupted like this and that SRT are taking a shitload of flak for the actions of SRW, but once you climb in with SRW aren’t you sort of saying that what SRW does is ok ?
    My post and others are only here as a direct response to Darins last post which, in my case, I felt warranted a response.

    It seems now that VirtualR, RaceDepartment and probably bsimracing will be boycotting future news items concerning SRT/SRW/RFC.
    While that is a shame as it does fracture things even further, it’s hard to say that its unwarranted.
    Given the heated environment right now its understandable that people are saying this, but SRT is just as guilty as they now want their content removed from here.

    Problem is, this will harm SRT more than any of the aforementioned sites. Without these popular sites publishing the news where is the audience going to come from ? Now that the videos are exclusive, only SRW members will mainly be aware of the new videos at least for the first 7 days. OK news will spread etc, but no matter, you cannot deny that this is likely going to affect your viewing figures and that has to be directly the opposite effect of what you want and what SRT is all about.
    Darin is right about not wanting to reply any more. That last one was a PR disaster.

    David W – a.k.a. F1Racer
    RacingRenders.com

  • ForzaBarca88

    Wow hasnt this discussion completely blown up…..
    I havent really bothered to comment on this up until now because I find the whole argument pretty shallow. I mean how many people would really care about this exlusivity bullshit if the video actually worked first time everytime? Obviously its a retarded publicity decision to make the video exclusive to a site that is run by people a large chunk of the simracing community don’t particularly like, but if the video works who cares? I liked the show enough to go there and watch it. In any case all its done is given people an excuse to have a go at SRW/ISR and open an old can of worms.

    And then ofcourse, Darin has to come in and shoot ISR in the foot. I mean really, ignoring the fact you basically say your opinion is more valid than the rest of the community, you then want your shows to be removed from the most popular sim racing news site currently around? Smart move man, maybe you should just remove ISR from google as well since your celebrity status should ensure your fans will find you no matter :roll:
    I’m sorry mate but even as a longtime viewer of your show I have to say you come off as an arrogant prick. Being a stubborn prick myself I don’t expect you to apologise and admit you screwed up but atleast make peace with the guys that run these sim community sites because it would be a real shame for ISR to lose coverage over something so ridiculously stupid.

  • http://www.ctdpworld.org Neidryder

    F1Racer:
    How much of an undertaking it is, is irrelevant.We didn’t ask SRW to set themselves up like this and they should not be using mods without peoples prior approval of which I’m sure they would have got if they’d asked first.
    Forgive me Andreas if I’m speaking out of turn here, but I`ll bet if given the opportunity to legitimately make money from their CTDP mods, they would do it.
    If for no other reason than to pay back the people who worked had on their mods.
    But they don’t.Why ?Because they know they can’t. So why the hell are they, or anyone else, supposed to keep quiet while someone else does albeit indirectly.

    You are absolutly right. Everything we *can* get for our hard and free work is respect. And that’s the reason we were so upset about the whole SRW issue.
    Just wanted to say, that there is nothing to forgive ;) it’s just correct, don’t worry :happy:

  • spamsac
  • Tigerteeth

    Gord Jeannotte: Darin, unfortunately some posters couldn’t control their hatred for SRW and used this petty excuse to direct their anger at you. I’m sure you realise that a small minority of the sim community is always happiest when there is a fued to engage in and VirtualR seems to have their fair share of instigators.As a long time viewer of your show, I just wanted to assure you that your opinions here echo those of us who are tired of the bickering that continues to fracture this community. Hopefully, the bitter few will continue to boycott all sites until they’re left racing against each other.

    Perhaps you should take your time and read through the whole thread Gord. The initial response was aimed at the exclusivity of the video, not the content and not the fact it was produced by ISR. Darin’s name was never mentioned until he chose to post his views, and his subsequent increasingly hostile posts clearly fired up many people. There were some completely unacceptable responses from VirtualR members I agree, but when you post such aggressive, baiting messages on an internet forum then seriously, what do you expect?

    As was stated before, there were some interesting points being made in this thread, and it had the potential to become a fascinating read with some major players being involved. Unfortunately it became about personalities and the point of the thread was lost (I believe it had something to do with rF2).

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    ForzaBarca88: Amen to that !

    Neidryder: Thanks :wink:

    spamsac: Just, :sd:

    Tigerteeh: Precisely. This isn’t about an exclusive video really. I think we can all understand why sites get exclusivity on media. Hell, I`ve done it myself. While renders are an insignificance compared to a mod or a presented video like SRT, I have given sites exclusivity to post renders of their cars on their sites a week before it appears on RacingRenders. If only to boost views to the mod makers site which rewards them at least in a small way for their hard work.
    This isn’t the case with SRW. Their concept had huge potential and whatever size SRW is now, it could have been so much more had they not irked the mod makers with the way they played it out.
    This latest news of all of our logins being passed over is just yet another example. It seems once money is involved, then alienating your potential audience is not of any significance.
    SRT climbed into bed with the wrong people in my opinion and while that might not have been an issue for most, because people just looked fwd to the episodes, this exclusivity issue (no biggie really) coupled with ISR’s comments on here have not helped or advantaged SRT in any way. Rather the opposite which is very unfortunate.
    If SRW had played it straight to begin with and SRT then aligned themselves with SRW to keep the show going, coupled with SRT actually covering more proper sim related stuff like released mods etc., then I think it would have worked out brilliantly and some of us would actually be quite appreciative for what we had in front of us.

  • Gord Jeannotte

    Tigerteeth: Perhaps you should take your time and read through the whole thread Gord. The initial response was aimed at the exclusivity of the video, not the content and not the fact it was produced by ISR. Darin’s name was never mentioned until he chose to post his views, and his subsequent increasingly hostile posts clearly fired up many people. There were completely unacceptable responses from VirtualR members I agree, but when you post such aggressive, baiting messages on an internet forum then seriously, what do you expect?As was stated before, there were some interesting points being made in this thread, and it had the potential to become a fascinating read with some major players being involved. Unfortunately it became about personalities and the point of the thread was lost (I believe it had something to do with rF2).

    I did read the whole thread. It starts with people commenting on the show and the difficulties with the video.
    Then WIX posts “RaceSimCentral only ???? .. jee , i still think they are starting to get a real attitude problem” which has nothing to do with the show and attacks the character of the people at ISR.

    Darin respectfully replies with his view on the subject and an apology for the quality. WIX counters that he now has a bad taste in his mouth and feels exploited which is fairly comical considering he has no affiliation with the show.

    Darin reacts to the weak accusation and the whole thread then disolves into a pissing match where anger at SRW is spewed at him. It would be good entertainment if not for the fact that this behaviour has been repeated ad nauseum over the years in the community.

  • TJ Halsema

    First off, I just joined here. Hey ya everybody. :lol:
    Everywhere I go, I always use my real name. Seriously look me up. I used to race real cars, I’ve even set a couple road-course track records in karts and legends cars. I have also been an avid sim racers ever since Papyrus Indycar came out back in 93. Now that I’m through introductions here is where it gets juicy. I used to work at an Internet Advertising company, so I asked one of my old working pals to look up some traffic numbers for me.

    These numbers were updated last Saturday.
    RaceSimCentral.com is averaging 2,500 viewers daily.
    Simraceway.com is averaging 1,200 viewers daily.
    Virtualr.net is averaging 16,100 viewers daily.
    InsideSimRacing.TV only gets 900 viewers on average a day.

    Now I know that the sim community is fractured into several groups. But its still a community, and according to those numbers a fairly sizable one on this site. We greatly enjoy rfactor and look forward to the new one coming out.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    Gord Jeannotte:
    I did read the whole thread. It starts with people commenting on the show and the difficulties with the video.
    Then WIX posts “RaceSimCentral only ???? .. jee , i still think they are starting to get a real attitude problem” which has nothing to do with the show and attacks the character of the people at ISR.Darin respectfully replies with his view on the subject and an apology for the quality. WIX counters that he now has a bad taste in his mouth and feels exploited which is fairly comical considering he has no affiliation with the show.Darin reacts to the weak accusation and the whole thread then disolves into a pissing match where anger at SRW is spewed at him. It would be good entertainment if not for the fact that this behaviour has been repeated ad nauseum over the years in the community.

    You are reading the posts, but not good enough. I stated my view on the matter. It is not about the exclusive video, but about what it stands for, and where its going to lead to. Further more did i not provoke using improper language.
    Everything i posted is what i believe to be my honest opinion.
    Thats what forums and comment pages are for. I stand by my words.

  • Paul Schuman

    Mr. Gangi,

    As you can see, I am using my real name, I use my real name in all communities and racing endeavors, and if you would like to confirm it is me you can also find me on facebook. I have yet to bow into this debate and will only say this: If you really want to speak to the whole “community” and not just a “faction” of it, then having it embedded as a video on the most visited site is probably a good thing in terms of exposure. If it’s a matter of credit from the original site, I’m sure that Montoya could have ensured it was done in a way in which was agreeable to you.

    In reference to your invitation to have a discussion about my personal concerns with charging for the use of mods as a commercial venture, I’d be happy to come on and discuss them.

    Paul R. Schuman

  • migf1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FZVD5lsAw

    PR disaster!!!

    Darin, since you are asking, it’s pretty clear that many of us used to be the ones who you’re talking to, when facing the camera on your show. Regular visitors of the No 1 Sim Racing news site on the Internet right now and for a good while now. Many of us have contributed and we are still contributing to the general simming community for over a decade, either internationally or domestically, or both… each one of us from his own perspective, no matter if it is called modding, league-organizing, running siming sites & services, racing or just participating to forums (or any combination of the above).

    Now please tell me Who Are You? Why is your opinion significant? What more do you do and/or have you ever done than the rest of us mortals? Who do you think you are?

    How exactly meeting Greger Hutu makes you a better or a more important person than let’s say a modder who’s mod is used by Greger Hutu when he’s racing on a league?
    How exactly presenting a (roughly) weekly webTV show along with other two guys makes you a better or a more important person than let’s say a guy who runs by himself the most popular simracing news site?
    How exactly knowing Earnhardt Jr makes you a more important person or a better sim racer than let’s say this otherwise anonymous “worm” guy who most probably doesn’t even know who Earnhardt Jr is – and why should he if he’s indeed doesn’t know)?

    You’ve got it all wrong, you make no sense, you have ruined it all for many… and you all did it by yourself, mostly with your latest outburst. It has nothing to do with SRW, sponsorships, rFC or anything else. It has all to do with your personal unbelievable and totally unjustified arrogance!

    I’m 42 years old, I’m simming since Accolade’s first Test Drive (yes, it was considered a sim back in 1987), I’ve created two sim-racing teams which both won a world title each(once the Driver’s Championship in 1999-2000 with Monaco GP RS2 and once the Teams Championship in 2008 with Live For Speed), I’ve managed to hold for a while a few world records both in LFS and GTR2, I’m a co-founder and still active super-admin of GVRTeam, the oldest and largest sim-racing community in Greece (since 2006, which btw happens to be the officially suggested localized LFS community), I could go on and on (listing for example several people I happen to know through all these years from both the sim-racing and real racing/media worlds)… but I won’t.

    You’ll rarely find my real name listed anywhere… so what? You now know who I am, you can look me up, so what? What difference does it make to you (or anyone else), why should it make a difference and how on earth is all this related to everyone’s right to express his opinion even criticizing public activities, without being obliged to accompany it with his resume?

  • eeevans

    dudes – all we need to resolve this: a topless pic of jessica

    andrew evans
    ex-rd staf

  • hoboracer

    Video games sure make people crazy.

  • moppenheimer

    Well…ISR just lost a viewer.

    Sorry Shaun and Jessica, you two seem very nice, but your friend may have just dug his grave, and your’s as well.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    eeevans: dudes – all we need to resolve this: a topless pic of jessica

    As tasteless as that was, I really had to laugh :sd:

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    I´d really like to point out how happy I am to see that most of you are responding this level-headed and eloquent to this somewhat poisoned discussion. Furthermore, I´d like to thank everyone who has been voicing their support either here or via mail, it’s highly appreciated :grin:

    Since pretty much everything has been said, I´d like to add two little points:

    1) The SRT category and all SRT-related stories have been removed as requested. VirtualR has never hosted foreign material against the will of content creators and I surely won’t start that now.

    The sole exception is this story which will stay up to allow the discussion to be viewed and continued.

    2) Since many of you have been including estimated reader-numbers in their responses, I´d like to clear that up to:

    During the past month, VirtualR has been read by roughly 20.000 unique readers each day. That data comes straight from Google Analytics and is far more accurate than any outside script that predicts numbers.

    Most of you rightfully pointed out that comments don’t equal readers. In fact, usually only 5% of the readers ever bother to comment on a story, most people just read here without joining the discusion.

    Since VirtualR requires a sign-up to leave comments, the percentage of readers leaving comments is probably lower than on other blogs, It has helped to keep the comment quality high since most people here know each other and are long-time members, keeping spamming and trolling to a minimum.

  • FlyingAce

    I thought I wouldn’t post here, but I just can’t resist it anymore…

    Darin, I’ve watched every episode of ISR and was a huge fan of you SRT guys, but guess what… I’ve just removed my subscription to your channel… This has nothing to do with ads, not focusing on sim content in latest eps, partnership with SRW or this exclusivity thing… It’s ONLY YOUR BEHAVIOUR that has put me off the show and as I can see I’m not the only one… Do you even realise that you are attacking your own audience? Even more you are attacking a site which plugged every single ISR episode… You can’t even imagine, how much you’ve disappointed me…

    All of my support goes to Montoya and all you modders out there… Keep up the great work guys, this community wouldn’t be the same without you…

    Martin Vrba
    DHR SimCraft

  • Harpo245

    This argument is hilarious.

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    Well Rob can look on the positive side. The number of registered users has probably gone up due to all the people that just couldn’t resist not commenting on this post. :happy:

  • Remus

    FlyingAce: I thought I wouldn’t post here, but I just can’t resist it anymore…Darin, I’ve watched every episode of ISR and was a huge fan of you SRT guys, but guess what… I’ve just removed my subscription to your channel… This has nothing to do with ads, not focusing on sim content in latest eps, partnership with SRW or this exclusivity thing… It’s ONLY YOUR BEHAVIOUR that has put me off the show and as I can see I’m not the only one… Do you even realise that you are attacking your own audience? Even more you are attacking a site which plugged every single ISR episode… You can’t even imagine, how much you’ve disappointed me…All of my support goes to Montoya and all you modders out there… Keep up the great work guys, this community wouldn’t be the same without you…Martin VrbaDHR SimCraft

    100% agree
    Remus CEO
    LMT Moddinggroup and Virtual Racer Rfactor Communtiy

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    Are you guys even sim racers ?? I see you dodged that question.. Lets race and then see if either of you have any credibility. This is about sim RACING.. right ? So lets race since you can’t give me an interview.

    Wow I missed that comment. I would love to take part in that challenge! :)

  • GTLove

    I have never commented before, but I have too today.

    I am not a hardcore SIM user but I am interested in the hobby, and I read this blog daily. I also look forward to the SRT episodes.

    I only know of SRT because of VirtualR.

    This whole thing is a real shame.

    G. Thomas Love
    Console User.

  • Shum94

    :lol:

    Some funny shit down here lol

    50 comments in one day, keep it up :sd:

  • Nedo

    hey Montoya, your newsite is simply the best, easy, fast to watch,
    no crap.
    I visit it daily since… ah i dont remember, long time ago ;)
    Keep up the (damn) good work and thank you!

    Nedo R.
    rF Trackbuilder

  • steve30x

    ISRacing: The reason I haven’t come back to this so called “community” is.. Who are you people ?? Do I know any of you personally ? Are any of you trash talkers adult enough to step out from behind your masks and expose who you really are and use your real names?
    How is a blog that one person writes and people comment on, considered a “community”.
    Just about every comment here that talked trash about me directly has broken the number one golden rule of sim racing.. no flaming.. Every one of you would be booted from any decent league in the sim racing world for your actions displayed here. Ramon.. You would be at the top of the list.. I can’t believe Race Department backs your actions.
    I’d like to see any of you Virtual R “community” dwellers come out and tell me why any one of your opnions is significant. WHO ARE YOU ?? Ramon from Race Dept is about the only one I know is real because, yes I did PM him.It was private and I used my real name. I could have posted it here, or at Race Department, but I chose to talk to him like an adult behind the scenes. He chose not to reply to me in private and instead comes here to flame me in the “community”
    “Montoya” .. Who are you and why is your opinion significant ?Are you Greger Huttu, David Greco, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Dave Kaemmer, Thomas Jackermeier, or even someone who has really sim raced. Like as in a competition? Who the heck are you ?? I’ve raced, met or interviewed all of the above and they are real people that sim race.. Who are you ? Some dude that posts sim news ?
    That was my reason for the earlier comment about racing.. Aren’t we all here to sim race? I figured going out on the track would be fun and put this BS to rest.. True sim racers, modders, developers and content providers don’t have time to feed into the vocal minority. Thats why I refuse to anymore.. Im not going to engage any one of you anymore, because again.. who the heck are you and why is your opinion significant? Take off the mask and then we’ll talk. My mask is off.No wonder hardware and software developers hide from the “community”. I think that term should be banned from sim racing. There’s not one community in sim racing anymore.. It’s completely severed. There’s at least ten.
    Over and over I have tried to cut this BS modding debate out and be a mediator between SRW and who ever is the leader of that “community”.. I’ve been part of modding teams, helped develop mods for SSCA endurance racing and know a good majority of the best modders and I just don’t get the bickering.. Can’t some kind of agreement or “Modders Guidlines” be created and adhered to? Maybe someone within “The Circle Of Trust” can come up with something..
    What are mods made for ?? To admire, or race ??I was always honored when someone wanted to use our mods for events and I didnt care if they were going to charge money for their events and give out prizes.. Do any of you know what an undertaking it is to put on an event ? It should all be free though right ?? Cause you’re all entitled.
    The offer is still open to come on our show and have a healthy debate about modding, the community, whatever sim racing related. Isn’t that what the “community” wants? Don’t you want to know who’s opinion your listening to? MAtter of fact, anyone that has a webcam, or even microphone and wants to come and voice their opinion and represent this “community” on our show, the door is open. We’ll let you hide bhind your mask if you want.. lolI honestly can’t believe this all blew up over our right to host our video wherever we want.. Montoya.. You could have asked instead of digging.. All other embeds were right there for the taking.. If you would have asked, you would have found out that it will be available to all 7 days after it was at RSC.. Seven whole days.. Oh man.. What a tragedy… You poor deprived, underpriviledged community..Hey community.. your wait is a whole lot longer than 7 days to see rFactor 2 for real.. Why do any of you feel entitlted to our content ? Again… WHO ARE YOU ?I’d like to apologize to the civilized sim racers here that got caught in the crossfire of this war. It’s been going on behind the scenes for months and Im sorry I couldn’t stay quiet and if I offended.. I promise you will not see reference to this crap on the show. It’s not worth the air time. A healthy debate with real people, we’re all for and could make for a great story.I truely apologize to anyone that had trouble viewing the show. It’ll be up this Friday the 2nd on You Tube for those that didn’t get to see it. I don’t like that fact that even one viewer had problems with the feed and Im truely sorry.Montoya, please do me a favor and remove all of our content and the section you put up to keep traffic here at your site. I would prefer that our show has no association with a “community” like this.
    I expect you to respect my request, just as you expect SRW to bow to your every request to have mods removed from their site.Don’t bother flame bating, trolling, whatever you want to call it, I will not respond to someone without a real name, face or voice nor will I resort to engaging someone that doesn’t really exist. If you’d prefer to stay here with your masks on, talking about sim racing in your Virtual world..Thats fine.. I’ll be actually doing it, against real people, with real names.. Feel free to look me up.. You know my name and know where to find me..
    Darin GangiP.S. If you’d like to read unbiased / original content from sim racers without masks on or agendas, head to RaceSimCentral.com

    Im not afraid to tell anybody who I am. My nick name is mny real name with the age I started going online to forums 7 years ago and the X is just an addition to my name. My Real Name is Steve Farrell from Dungarvan , Co. Waterford , Ireland born 5th of july 1973. Now its your turn to reval your real name after you spouting crap about others hiding their true Identity. I am usualy Civilised but you truly outdone yourself with contradictions in that post. I love your show and I am sad to see it go the way it has but this attitude of yours needs to be calmed a bit and try to be more civilised which will help the situation a little more.

  • holy_sword

    you did a better job of butchering your audience than you do of promoting sim racing.Done with your show, removed my subscription on youtube

  • GeraArg

    Ouch!

    Homer Jay Simpson.

  • moppenheimer

    steve30x:
    Im not afraid to tell anybody who I am. My nick name is mny real name with the age I started going online to forums 7 years ago and the X is just an addition to my name. My Real Name is Steve Farrell from Dungarvan , Co. Waterford , Ireland born 5th of july 1973. Now its your turn to reval your real name after you spouting crap about others hiding their true Identity. I am usualy Civilised but you truly outdone yourself with contradictions in that post. I love your show and I am sad to see it go the way it has but this attitude of yours needs to be calmed a bit and try to be more civilised which will help the situation a little more.

    Just fyi…we know his name…

  • Rasmus

    Wow… Also speechless after having read Darin’s last comment. Everything that’s worth mentioning has already been said, and this doesn’t really lead anywhere. I won’t insult anyone in this post.

    @ SRT/ISR (cus no doubt you’re still reading this): All you need to do is quit your cooporation with SimRaceway (or anyone else trying to make money out of our hobby). If you did that, and furthermore apologized to all your viewers (90 % of which I believe also visit this site) for having done business with them, you probably could get back on track alright… I’m sure most people could forgive Darin for his comments here.

    … an even better solution would be for Simraceway to forget about the profits and doing it all for free – but we all know that won’t happen.

    In case this doesn’t happen, we need to focus on how to get past this. My ideas:

    – Someone should try and do their own show about sim racing. I kind of vision a YouTube video of about 10 minutes length with just random people from all over the community talking in front of a webcam about a sim-related matter (reviewing a mod, giving tips etc.) and then maybe someone could compile it all and put it on YouTube. Shouldn’t be that big a job. Maybe (just maybe :P) I’d do it. If this doesn’t work out, well, the community would probably live on still.

    – Everyone should either try to delete their account from Simraceway/rFC/RSC or if that’s not possible, change their username to something like “Boycotting_xxx” (where xxx is a random number). If everyone does this, pretty soon they wouldn’t have any really active users around.

    – Everyone should quit subscribing to SRT’s YouTube channel.

    – Those who can afford it and are willing to do so, should donate some money to the “good” sites, be it NoGrip, RaceDepartment, bSimRacing etc. Montoya, is there anyway I can donate to your site? You’re a good guy and I love this website. That way, we can at least show that we’re supportive of people not using mods to make money for themselves.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents… hope I made myself understandable (a bit hard for me since English is not my main language). Feel free to comment. :)

    PS: If ISI and the whole crew behing rFactor 2 are following this: you guys should really reconsider letting SRT get anymore exclusive footage…

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    As most of you know, 3D rendering is a hobby of mine but I also model from time to time and follow video tutorials etc. There is a site I go to called SimplyLightwave.com. If a tutorial video is posted that you want to watch, learn from and follow, you can buy points on PayPal or with c/card and each tutorial which is split into several parts costs points to download. So you are basically paying for each part of the tutorial. But the cost is minimal and because in this case its educational it can be invaluable and worth the money.

    Now… if SRT were to adopt something similar, this could be a solution. It depends on how the ‘I want everything for free’ attitude of the big chunk of the sim racing community reacts.

    So.. forgetting the paying for points system, lets say you just pay per episode. You might not want to buy each one because it will depend on the content. They could charge say 50c or $1 per ep. Multiply that by the number of downloads and its pretty healthy I`d say.
    Now the beauty of this is that they can ditch the dubious SRW and get back to reviewing sim-racing stuff, the stuff we actually want to watch. They don’t have to rely on only reviewing stuff the people are paying them to and therefore biasing the reviews because you’re not going to be negative about a product someone is paying you to review, I don’t care what they say.
    In fact they’d be able to cover and review whatever they wanted, no pressure, because the revenue is coming directly from their audience so maybe they can also have a say in what they’d like to see on the show. Then they’re more likely to pay for that episode too.
    If an ep comes out every couple of weeks or month I`d pay that scrawny amount in return for the time they put in. They’d be completely independant.
    The videos could even be in a higher def DivX format, answer viewer emails etc., maybe even have competitions.

    Like I said, maybe people wouldn’t be willing to pay but its just an idea I thought I`d throw out there. All they’d need is the coding of the website set up to handle it. Of course there is a downside. How many people are going to say that they don’t have paypal or access to a c/card ? Maybe they could apply for a 10 episode subscription via a postal cheque or whatever.

    Wanna make it less easy for people not to copy the vids to YouTube ? Stick the show on iTunes. The whole pay-per-ep system is already in place.

    Just thinking out loud. Time for bed.

  • Ghoults

    Montoya:
    I´d really like to point out how happy I am to see that most of you are responding this level-headed and eloquent to this somewhat poisoned discussion. Furthermore, I´d like to thank everyone who has been voicing their support either here or via mail, it’s highly appreciated
    Since pretty much everything has been said, I´d like to add two little points:
    1) The SRT category and all SRT-related stories have been removed as requested. VirtualR has never hosted foreign material against the will of content creators and I surely won’t start that now.
    The sole exception is this story which will stay up to allow the discussion to be viewed and continued.
    2) Since many of you have been including estimated reader-numbers in their responses, I´d like to clear that up to:
    During the past month, VirtualR has been read by roughly 20.000 unique readers each day. That data comes straight from Google Analytics and is far more accurate than any outside script that predicts numbers.

    I find it sad that vr has taken a step towards censorship. This is really sad from you virtualr. I thought virtualr was one of the sim racing news sites that covered all sims and had a balanced and unbiased view of all things. Turns out I was wrong.

    This just plain pathetic from your part to be honest. You admit no error whatsoever while what YOU did was to actually steal a video from other site. Yes, that is what you did. You’re no better than srw. What has happened after that is just an icing on the cake.

    I don’t know whether to laugh of cry. There have been some nasty comments from both sides but the thing is this what is happening is actually nothing. Srt has put their video on exclusive site for few days and then all this hell breaks loose.

    What’s wrong with you people? Have you just lost all your sense of proportions? Stop acting like spoiled kids.

    This whole debacle is nothing more than a simple misunderstanding. Yet you are so childish and stubborn that you are unable to take care of such small thing as this without this huge flamewar.

    Get real!

  • Zeduxearth

    Hi all! I got fed up of all the insults thrown by ISR so I decided to post the interview in Youtube so more people the real fans who were not able to watch could see more on rFactor 2.

    I feel Darin aka ISR and SRW aka RSC used and abused on Gjon Camaj’s own good intentions to profit some money and hits. It backfired (God is Just) and I hope from now on concerning rFactor 2 Gjon Camaj will interact directly with the community.

    I got this message from ISR in my youtube account it proves even more all the bad intentions behind Darin aka ISR concerning sim news and the community. If they really wanted to spread sim racing they wouldn’t have written this to me…


    Thanks
    Good luck keeping your You Tube account after this. I have filed a copyright violation against your channel and use of our show.

    I suggest taking it down right away.

    Inside Sim Racing

    See is this the behavior of someone who really wants to spread news on rFactor 2 a title we are waiting for or is it the reaction of someone desperate on gaining something out of it? :roll:

  • moppenheimer

    Ghoults:
    I find it sad that vr has taken a step towards censorship. This is really sad from you virtualr. I thought virtualr was one of the sim racing news sites that covered all sims and had a balanced and unbiased view of all things. Turns out I was wrong.This just plain pathetic from your part to be honest. You admit no error whatsoever while what YOU did was to actually steal a video from other site. Yes, that is what you did. You’re no better than srw. What has happened after that is just an icing on the cake.
    I don’t know whether to laugh of cry. There have been some nasty comments from both sides but the thing is this what is happening is actually nothing. Srt has put their video on exclusive site for few days and then all this hell breaks loose.
    What’s wrong with you people? Have you just lost all your sense of proportions? Stop acting like spoiled kids.This whole debacle is nothing more than a simple misunderstanding. Yet you are so childish and stubborn that you are unable to take care of such small thing as this without this huge flamewar.Get real!

    Are you serious? Censorship? Choosing not to cover something is in no way censorship. And removing it at the request of the owners of said material is not bias either.

    If you’d bother to read you’d realize there is a much bigger issue than a “simple misunderstanding”

    Get off your high horse.

  • carbonfibre

    Hey Ghoults you thought wrong! But just because you don’t understand the issue doesn’t mean you have to spoil the discussion. It’s not written anywhere that VirtualR has to be impartial, so that’s your loss and it has nothing to do with this. :roll:

    You also used the word “steal” in describing how websites embed links which I facepalmed, however this is now irrelevant because Rob has removed all offending content anyway.

    Educate yourself more and you might see the irony in your post. There is profiteering at hand and the figures do matter.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    Ghoults:
    I find it sad that vr has taken a step towards censorship. This is really sad from you virtualr. I thought virtualr was one of the sim racing news sites that covered all sims and had a balanced and unbiased view of all things. Turns out I was wrong.This just plain pathetic from your part to be honest. You admit no error whatsoever while what YOU did was to actually steal a video from other site. Yes, that is what you did. You’re no better than srw. What has happened after that is just an icing on the cake.
    I don’t know whether to laugh of cry. There have been some nasty comments from both sides but the thing is this what is happening is actually nothing. Srt has put their video on exclusive site for few days and then all this hell breaks loose.
    What’s wrong with you people? Have you just lost all your sense of proportions? Stop acting like spoiled kids.This whole debacle is nothing more than a simple misunderstanding. Yet you are so childish and stubborn that you are unable to take care of such small thing as this without this huge flamewar.Get real!

    Plaese read the discussion before posting. VR did not steal anything. This is hardly the topic of this thread. We are trying to get a constructive discussion going here. Everybody should be able to speak its mind, even SRT, RSW or the likes. but try at least to read and evaluate the comments before you react.

    We will hardly get anything solved this way. If one day the SRT videos are back on most sites, it would mean the issiues have been handled in a mature way. Just commenting on something for the sake of it, wont help.

  • http://www.iracingdanmark.dk Richard Torp Jensen

    Who is the Sim Racing Community?? Seems that a lot of people here thinks THEY ARE SPEAKING on behalf of the community..one even mentioned 90%.
    I`m part of the Sim Community because i`m a Sim Racer. I really don`t care about deals with RSW, RSC, ISR/SRT and so on, I`m just enjoying Sim Racing – and the ISR/SRT show. So maybe some of you guys should write the MOD COMMUNITY instead of Sim Community. I don`t care about mods btw.
    Most of my friends in the SIM Racing community don`t care about mods – but still they are members of the Sim Racing community.
    It`s so easy. If you don`t like ISR/SRT anymore – don`t think about them and don`t watch the show, in the end it will show if ISR/SRT will survive this boycott.
    I will do a lot to promote ISR/SRT where I am. Just little words and ISR/SRT links to all my mates in the Sim Racing community could make a big difference :)

    Have a nice easter! :cool:

  • felipe

    Hi all! I got fed up of all the insults thrown by ISR so I decided to post the interview in Youtube so more people the real fans who were not able to watch could see more on rFactor 2.

    I feel Darin aka ISR and SRW aka RSC used and abused on Gjon Camaj’s own good intentions to profit some money and hits. It backfired (God is Just) and I hope from now on concerning rFactor 2 Gjon Camaj will interact directly with the community.

    I got this message from ISR in my youtube account it proves even more all the bad intentions behind Darin aka ISR concerning sim news and the community. If they really wanted to spread sim racing they wouldn’t have written this to me…

    Thanks
    Good luck keeping your You Tube account after this. I have filed a copyright violation against your channel and use of our show.

    I suggest taking it down right away.

    Inside Sim Racing

    See is this the behavior of someone who really wants to spread news on rFactor 2 a title we are waiting for or is it the reaction of someone desperate on gaining something out of it?

  • felipe

    I told him if youtube says I need to take down the video I will asap and in return he wrote this….

    Re: Res:Thanks
    Thank you for bootlegging copyrighted work.. You tube should be on you in no time. Good luck retaining account.

    LOSER !!

    Seems like the whole world are my of nobodies and LOSERS in Darin’s eyes! :roll:

  • http://simscreens.blogspot.com 6e66o

    felipe your behaviour doesnt help at all…

  • Austin Powers

    Ahmad: I’ve unsubscribed myself from SRT’s YouTube channel.

    +1

  • http://historicgt.8.forumer.com Rantam

    @6e66o +1

    Felipe, even if you don’t like them ISR has the copyright of that video so you will probably lose that battle.

    That’s not the correct way of handling these things, If i may comment about it.

    Anyway, aren’t we go back to the initial topic, that is, the rF2 video content?

    Regards

  • felipe

    Rantam: @6e66o +1Felipe, even if you don’t like them ISR has the copyright of that video so you will probably lose that battle.That’s not the correct way of handling these things, If i may comment about it.Anyway, aren’t we go back to the initial topic, that is, the rF2 video content?Regards

    Rantam my only intention was to share with so many people out there who can’t watch what Gjon has to say and show on rFactor 2. I don’t want to keep the video in my account so if You tube remove it or ask me to I’ll will do it asap happily!

  • drdryvillage

    :eek: Mr Ghoults, I think you should carefully read the thread before posting . You get real ok?…anyway…

    I see now the real attitude of ISR toward their viewers, us.
    ISRacing is arrogant and disrespectful for the people that helped them grow like they are now.
    They still are nothing, but at least they are significant in our little community.
    Not any more.
    In the past I promoted their shows to other people/friends.
    From now on I will promote their arrogance and lack of respect.

    Ghoults:
    I find it sad that vr has taken a step towards censorship. This is really sad from you virtualr. I thought virtualr was one of the sim racing news sites that covered all sims and had a balanced and unbiased view of all things. Turns out I was wrong.This just plain pathetic from your part to be honest. You admit no error whatsoever while what YOU did was to actually steal a video from other site. Yes, that is what you did. You’re no better than srw. What has happened after that is just an icing on the cake.
    I don’t know whether to laugh of cry. There have been some nasty comments from both sides but the thing is this what is happening is actually nothing. Srt has put their video on exclusive site for few days and then all this hell breaks loose.
    What’s wrong with you people? Have you just lost all your sense of proportions? Stop acting like spoiled kids.This whole debacle is nothing more than a simple misunderstanding. Yet you are so childish and stubborn that you are unable to take care of such small thing as this without this huge flamewar.Get real!

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    I think it would be a good idea to move over to the VirtualR Community pages.
    The topic at hand starts to stray of a little. After +200 posts people might start to forget the original topic of the matter and only state remarks based on the last few comments.

    For me the topic is still about the fact that commercialization (however small) is going to harm the modding scene. Richard Torp Jensen did have a point when he stated that there is a difference between the modding /and simming community.
    The two go hand in hand , but i agree . for the sim community this topic is not as relevant as for the modding community. The topic should not be about the SRT reply of Darin, but about what situations like this could lead to.
    So let all who care about the modding try to point the noses in the same direction. This should not be about how bad something , or somebody is , but about how we can make it better.

  • http://www.iracingdanmark.dk Richard Torp Jensen

    felipe: I told him if youtube says I need to take down the video I will asap and in return he wrote this….Seems like the whole world are my of nobodies and LOSERS in Darin’s eyes!

    It`s a sad behaviour you are showing, not only in that comment, but also IN A LOT of your posts. I hope not you are an adult..because you are not behaving like one.
    You are talking about others behaviour – but first look at your own behaviour…

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    To re-iterate what others have already said,
    @Ghoults, VR has not taken a step towards censorship at all. They were requested by SRT to remove all content and have complied. Montoya didn’t just decide to do that on his own. You must read all the posts you missed before passing such a scathing judgment like that.

    @felipe, while you may have had good intentions to post the video on YouTube, it’s not a good idea mate. Do the right thing and take it down BEFORE YouTube does it for you. Show a little dignity. As much as we can maybe understand your reasons, it doesn’t help the situation and makes things look bad on this side too. Using SRTs videos in this way is just what SRW are doing with peoples mods and you’re smart enough to know that two wrongs don’t make a right.

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    F1Racer ++

  • moving-target

    Like I am asking the modder, before I release a template for his mod, it should be totally clear that ANYONE who wants to use a mod for ANY commercial purpose, will have to ask too.

    This has to be part of the netiquette.

    Now suddenly these unwritten rules get disregarded by some folks trying to make money.

    These guys come in, empty the fridge ,puke on the carpet and finally wonder why people are getting a little pissed by this behaviour.
    And if this commercialization with unlicensed content should cause the attention of the license holders, it will be up to the modders to clean this mess and face the consequences.

    For me it doen’t take much empathy to understand the discomfort of some modding groups.

    This is not about SRT, it is about commercialization and its harmful consequences for the modding community (not the community of non mod using sim racers e.g. console users).

    SRT is OK. Although the good days (mod squad, reports from online events) are long gone.
    I still enjoy two-thirds of them.

  • jgmonty

    Felipe:

    Despite your intentions, you are morally, ethically and most importantly legally in the wrong, and I would suggest you take ISR’s advice. Whether or not you agree with the behaviour of one of its employees, the fact remains that ISR have not done anything that wasn’t completely within their right to do, as the video is their legal property. This is not what the discussion is (or should I say was) about. Please do the right thing and remove it from YouTube.

  • Marc

    Hi there guys.

    Just thought I would share some thoughts from within the games industry.

    Until quite recently I worked with one of leading companies for a number of years.

    I come from a background of hardcore simracing having raced in the past against the very best in the world, Greger, Dom D, Rich T etc etc, and indeed Ramon and many many others, I am in effect a true Sim racer with a true passion for my hobby.

    Increasingly it has become impossible to make money from the Simracing niche, which often means products are comprimised to appeal to the larger audience, sometimes in a way which is no big deal, sometimes in a way which lacks the detail sim racers appreciate and expect from the latest “Sim” titles.

    Given that the market for Simracing is so small and the profits so relatively small it then becomes an uphill struggle for a developer to make a product which appeals both to the more casual gamer, and the serious sim racer, because the product that you can AFFORD to make neither fully satisfies either market, all I can say is that people should try to support the few companies still left in the sim racing genre, the fact that I was working with one of these companies until recently should be an indication of implications.

    Darin SRT:

    My experience with you on a professional level always left me feeling like you were arrogant and of the belief you were above everyone else, indeed the people who make Mods, or even commercial software, its obviously a problem you have with putting yourself and your POV across to people, maybe your a nice guy in real life but the way you talk in the virtual world and way you express yourself goes a long way to be desired.

    Who exactly are YOU Darin ??? quite honestly was disgusted with your approach in your last post, who are any of us ?? are devs above customers, are media above devs etc etc, no, we all share a common thing, well supposedly, the love of virtual sim racing, fwiw the opinion of real racers does not come above anybody else, they are still just people, we are all just people, and all have the right to an opinion which is no better or more right than anybody elses, IMHO :)

    I have not used my real name, and I have not mentioned companies for obvious reasons.

  • Stream

    I was just re-checking this post to see if the video was available on Youtube yet, and noticed there were now several hundred comments. :shock:

    Spent just over an hour reading through them all and must say I’m surprised and offended by the last response from Darin. Since I’m just an average sim-racing hobbyist (= a nobody) you probably won’t read what I write anyway, Darin, but taking such an approach towards your viewers really is a suicide for your show.

    I have unscubscribed myself from your Youtube-channel, and tried removing myself from your insidesimracing-forum but was unable to (is there no option for it?).

    Btw, is there any possibility that “ISRacer” as just some fake person presenting himself as Darin Gangi?

  • Austin Powers

    Stream: Btw, is there any possibility that “ISRacer” as just some fake person presenting himself as Darin Gangi?

    I am sure he would love to hide behind that excuse now :weird:

  • http://www.polehunters.de ErnieBernie

    Video is not longer available on http://www.polehunters.de :roll:

  • AndreasT

    Regardless of how my opinion about SRT has changed over the last days, they simply own the copyright of that video. I just hope that ISI will find another way next time to account for all interests in the modding+sim community and will not give exclusivity to SRW or a party being sponsored by SRW. Among others BSR-WIX had quite some good points why the latter are a potential trouble-maker. While I highly appreciate ISI’s efforts to provide a quality framework for modding, they should also recognize that rfactor would be in the middle of nowhere if only limited to its stock content. Imo they could/should simply provide a better preview video themselves next time, free for all, everywhere…

    In addition I think it’s not worth at all risking legal issues because of that video. Just because others (like SRW) don’t do things the right way does not justify you can also make it wrong. While it’s always nice to have such previews, what did the video give us? The graphics we could not judge for obvious reasons. That the GUI would change (ok, we haven’t seen that before afaik) and dynamical weather would be implemented we already knew. That it will be based on DX9 and existing code and not be written from scratch was also known. Where really those questions asked we would have liked to hear? No reason to “cry” if the video vanishes from all places except one.

    Concernig SRT, well honestly, to commment on that has become more of a waste of time. But I still want to point out that any serious company asks all their employees who interact with the public to take courses and improve their communications skills. :wink:

  • AndreasT

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that I highly appreciate Montoya’s enormous efforts to keep us up2date on his great site which is for sure in my Top5 of klicks. :happy:

  • UncleChuckle

    VirtualR is worth ten times what the whores at SRT are worth.

    Darin, Shaun and Jugs can go to hell. They want to be shills and sell out, let ‘em.

    I wrote for RSC. The OLD RSC. Sickens me to see what that once hugely important resource has become. Just another avenue to shill SRW’s ethically dubious at best business model.

    Keep up the good work Montoya. You have something Shaun and Darin lack. Integrity.

  • Gaiajohan

    Well..

    Now I read the reply by Darin I say “Goodbye SRT”. I’ve loved the shows you had in the past, I’ve even had contact with you, I replied on several videos through youtube helping other members who visited your videos.. But now it’s really blown away.

    Your comments against YOUR audience was just not the right one.

    Goodbye. I’ll unsubscribe me from yer Youtube channel. And ‘not to forget, RSC is not what it was and will never be again with such an attitude you showed here.

    //edit: finally Youtube let me unsubscribe.
    edit2:
    I forgot my real name: Johan Top

  • Gaiajohan

    scca1981: members

    They’ve imported all rFC-accounts. With that number it’s easier to get sponsors than starting from scratch.
    I’ve asked to delete my account. I’ve never wanted to be a member there.

  • Ghoults

    I stand by everything what I’ve said in this thread. I’ve read all comments posted so far and I’m aware of the srw-fiasco with using mods for profit and all that not removing the mods when requested… I’m not supporting srw one bit.

    However, srt is totally different story and srt has my support 100%. Just like virtualr did. Like I said this whole mess is either just a joke or an absurd overreaction. Srt puts their anticipated video on exclusive site (where you cans till watch it for free) and all this hell breaks loose. No matter how these virtualr guys are twisting it it does not get any more simple or complex. Sure, the player was not working, I know. I couldn’t even watch it either until very recently. But to go from there to some ultimate opinion about srt being all about money and so forth – get real. Come on!

    I’m not the one on the high horse here. I’m not pretending to be the “misunderstood good guy” or the “I made a mistake but it was nt my fault”-guy. Look at the situation at hand, look at what srt did, what virtualr did and (badly) the latter was able to deal with their own mistake. Then look at how the virtualr bandwagon jumped in with some pretty absurd stuff.

    Don’t put the srw hate on srt. Think for a second. Stop the competition for the most absurd over reaction.

  • felipe

    Ghoults: I stand by everything what I’ve said in this thread. I’ve read all comments posted so far and I’m aware of the srw-fiasco with using mods for profit and all that not removing the mods when requested… I’m not supporting srw one bit.However, srt is totally different story and srt has my support 100%. Just like virtualr did. Like I said this whole mess is either just a joke or an absurd overreaction. Srt puts their anticipated video on exclusive site (where you cans till watch it for free) and all this hell breaks loose. No matter how these virtualr guys are twisting it it does not get any more simple or complex. Sure, the player was not working, I know. I couldn’t even watch it either until very recently. But to go from there to some ultimate opinion about srt being all about money and so forth – get real. Come on!I’m not the one on the high horse here. I’m not pretending to be the “misunderstood good guy” or the “I made a mistake but it was nt my fault”-guy. Look at the situation at hand, look at what srt did, what virtualr did and (badly) the latter was able to deal with their own mistake. Then look at how the virtualr bandwagon jumped in with some pretty absurd stuff.Don’t put the srw hate on srt. Think for a second. Stop the competition for the most absurd over reaction.

    Rob could you check out this guy’s ip? Seems like it must be someone with double account if you know what I mean!

    The crappy news site with the “exclusive” (not worth mentioning their name) is copying VirtualR in it’s fullest also seems like Fanatec are supporting them which is not a good thing for Fanatec to be doing associating themselves with SRW is not going to gain them many new customers!

    It’s clear ISR supports SRW’s bussiness modle as stated by their Boss Daring Gangi here…

    ISRacing:
    I was always honored when someone wanted to use our mods for events and I didnt care if they were going to charge money for their events and give out prizes..

  • Slimjim

    WOW !!…………. All over a 1/2 ass made video of something we are not going to see for a year, which IMO should not have been shown until more bugs fixes and a better quality video could be made…

    This is not a slam at SRT, as i watch when the porn sites are down.. I would love to take your silly challenge and have a chat about modding/simracing..it would be a hoot… I have raced for real, and i’m not too shabby on the sims… I have a real name and only wear my mask the 31st of October..

    after reading most of the posts, I can only say, Never bite the hand that feeds you.

  • driving god

    At first I was on SRT’s side, the argument over the video was stupid. Then Darin started posting, and I unsubscribed from SRT.

    I mean… Seriously? He insulted the entire community because we hide behind ‘masks’ and aren’t Dale Earnhardt Jr.?

  • RockStar

    I just want to say that i have always watched the SRT videos thanks to Jessica’s BOOBS , thats all :wink:

    SRSLY i don’t care about the show , and now even less.

  • Firestarter

    Ghoults: The video worked the first hours it was embedded on this site, then suddenly “the content is unavailable” and then virtualr.net is accused for stealing “exclusive” content.

    And when ISR is partnering with SRW which don`t respect modders, and suddenly turn around against communities that have promoted their videos, it seems to me that ISR have lost their roots and forgot who makes them “big”.

  • migf1

    Ghoults:
    [snip]
    Like I said this whole mess is either just a joke or an absurd overreaction. Srt puts their anticipated video on exclusive site (where you cans till watch it for free) and all this hell breaks loose. No matter how these virtualr guys are twisting it it does not get any more simple or complex.
    [snip]

    For me, it was Darin’s attitude that broke hell loose. As simple as that!

  • Gaiajohan

    driving god: At first I was on SRT’s side, the argument over the video was stupid. Then Darin started posting, and I unsubscribed from SRT.I mean… Seriously? He insulted the entire community because we hide behind ‘masks’ and aren’t Dale Earnhardt Jr.?

    Indeed.
    SRT has the right not to allow videos being posted on other sites. But how Darin insulted the community was just one that let my jaw drop for 12 metres. And also the reason I unsubscribed from SRT.

  • starfox550

    All this site and this argument has proved to me is that the sim raincg “community”(said in the most sarcastic manor possible) are just a bunch of free-loading whining, whinging women I have ever seen. quite pathetic.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    starfox550: All this site and this argument has proved to me is that the sim raincg “community”(said in the most sarcastic manor possible) are just a bunch of free-loading whining, whinging women I have ever seen. quite pathetic.

    Don’t forget you are a part of this community, so if you are going to generalise like that, then count yourself in.
    Also add in the lack of understanding for topics at hand as you have clearly demonstrated. So I suppose we’re all guilty of that now, following your generalisation rules.

    Basically you’ve totally missed the point of the debate and based that comment on the replies of those that didn’t post in the most civilised diplomatic way.

    Oh and if it bothers you that much, you know where the door is.

  • felipe

    Since the day I posted the video on Youtube Darin Gangi has made my life miserable sending many message after message with all sorts of stuff some only for mature audience also I blocked them but still they find a way to send more. I spoke with one of our family’s lawyer and after reading the messages he said we could have a case but since I posted the video first it would be a long battle and very much money consuming and most probably some kind of settlement not worth the trouble.

    Darin Gangi’s last words have been very low and I don’t want to flame this discussion this will be also my last post on the matter but I need to post his last reply as it wasn’t directed to me but to the community as a whole. I’m done after this and I hope Darin stop sending me messages. :sad2:

    Subject:
    Re: Re: Re: Res:Thanks
    Date:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Message:
    I’m not worried.. Just shows the true colors of that “community”. VirtualRag – The one stop shop for bottom feeders that claim to be sim racers and want everything free. Go back to the cave and follow your leader.. Rob the almighty mod savior..

    All you losers want something for nothing and here’s another example. I hope they take down your account, not just my vid.. Mark my words, the vid will come down..

    Best Wishes bottom feeder..

    Darin Gangi
    Inside Sim Racing – The only true source for unbiased reviews and news.

  • drdryvillage

    Eheh what a nice chap :wink:

    BTW here is their reply in ISR forum:
    http://insidesimracing.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=1815&p=14163#p14163

  • Jdz

    Thanks for the entertainment Darin, nice to know who you really are…

    :lol:

  • http://simscreens.blogspot.com 6e66o

    Again felipe…
    uploading the video to youtube knowing it wasnt allowed
    and posting pm´s in public doesnt help AT ALL.

    Montoya respected their wish and removed all SRT Videos,
    and so should you.

  • drdryvillage

    Funny how he call his site “The ONLY true source for unbiased reviews and news”

    felipe remove his video, it doesn’t contain a lot of value information anyway and you are lowering to their levels :weird:

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Felipe,

    I know you want to help but you really aren’t with this sort of action.

    SRT has every right to what they want with their material, that’s not the main issue this discussion is about.

    Just we disagree with them dosen’t mean we have the right to violate their intellectual property. So I know you meant well but please consider your actions more carefully in the future.

    This issue is not about where they upload their videos, don’t give them an excuse to hide from the real issues with actions like that.

    Overall, I´m very pleased with how most of you have handled this discussion so far. I´m really proud of all commenters here whether or not you agree with me as this issue has mostly been handled in a very mature way :grin:

  • felipe

    the video is off guys it was already removed!

    drdryvillage: Funny how he call his site “The ONLY true source for unbiased reviews and news”felipe remove his video, it doesn’t contain a lot of value information anyway and you are lowering to their levels

  • starfox550

    F1Racer:
    Don’t forget you are a part of this community, so if you are going to generalise like that, then count yourself in.Also add in the lack of understanding for topics at hand as you have clearly demonstrated. So I suppose we’re all guilty of that now, following your generalisation rules.
    Basically you’ve totally missed the point of the debate and based that comment on the replies of those that didn’t post in the most civilised diplomatic way.
    Oh and if it bothers you that much, you know where the door is.

    From what i can see
    1.SRW are using Mods with out asking
    2.SRT are sponsered by SRW
    3.VirtualR Posted an “exclusive” video
    4.Everybody else jumping on the bandwagon

    Surely all the above is the business of the respective parties and everybody else has no real reason to butt in! i have read 99% of the posts here and it is the same old same old!

    If you dont like SRT stay away from it
    If you dont like SRW stay away from it
    If you dont like VirtualR stay away from it

    I find all have their perks excluding “censored” so guess what…..
    But I don’t do is run around to everybody shouting/preaching about how they are this and how they do that, the only people allowed to do that are the people directly involved

    As a previous post said time will tell what how much of a success certain sites/organisations will be people have their own minds

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    felipe, seriously, I can find little sympathy if Darin ‘the unbiased one’ Gangi continues to send his flippant, ignorant and biased drivel to you.
    People here have already advised you to remove the video and I’m surprised you haven’t. SRT vids are their intellectual property and you can’t just go ripping it off and posting it somewhere else. You’re as bad as SRW if you do that.
    If they want their biased arcade content laden shows to be exclusive then thats their right and considering the content of the last few episodes, they can keep it.

    It seems Darin has the wrong end of the stick with VirtualR too. He thinks that Montoya just ripped the video from their site and embedded it here to spite them because of the way the community perceives SRW. Ridiculous.
    He also mistakenly believes that the feelings towards SRW are limited to people who visit and comment on VirtualR only. Not so Darin. It’s rather more widespread and channels from the end users right back to the mod makers themselves.

    VirtualR has embedded the YouTube vids of SRT for as long as I can remember and Darin nor Shaun has not had a single problem with that. In fact, that VirtualR did so, gave SRT much more exposure and more hits to his own unbiased site and unbiased YouTube channel.
    To quote Montoya:

    “I´m sorry but it was not as clear as you might think. The title image with the “Racesimcentral exclusive” thing was added after they blocked the video from outside views, it wasn’t in the original video when I embedded it.

    The absence of the embedd option is no clear signal either. It was a new player software so I had no way to know whether or not the missing option was intended or just no supported by this software.

    Like I said, there was absolutely no indication for me to believe they don’t want this video to be embedded, especially considering I´ve embedded all their shows before.”

    Clearly some misunderstanding occurred in this case and I’m quite sure if SRT had had the forethought and wherewithall to let sites like VirtualR know that this 61st video was to be treated differently, that request would have been respected.
    It didn’t even play on here (let alone their own site) anyway so what the hell is the problem ?
    Instead of bitching about it, Darin should be grateful for the extra audience they now enjoy BECAUSE of bottom feeders in VirtualR.

    Darin, you are a disrespectful and ignorant man and with that comes arrogance and that is not a nice mixture. You actually expect people to believe your shows opinions are unbiased when this is something you are trying to make a living from and rely on the money that runs this show and its content ? I think not.
    There is no money in reviewing mods so thats why we don’t see them any more. Right ?
    It doesn’t get more unbiased than a lot of peoples thoughts and opinions all in a mixed bad and that’s what you get here. When it comes to being unbiased, you’re show can’t even compete with a forum or a blog.

  • starfox550

    so SRW is paying for arcade reviews F1RACER? in fact when do SRT review anything to do with SRW? i was under the impression SRW payed to have their name on the show. since when does the sponser tell the driver how drive or the team how to stratagise? sometimes i think people argue for the sake of it

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    What are you on about ? Thats not what I said, don’t twist my words.
    I’ve edited my previous post to avoid anyone else, with the same train of thought as yours, misunderstanding things.

  • Zenitchik

    I feel very sorry for Shaun and Jessica :neutral:
    At least they haven’t been takin gpart in this….¤#(/¤%#(¤&# debate

  • amdr

    Wow what an e-Drama. I didn’t read everything offcourse but I read some of the posts on ISR forum etc and I do have to stay that they’re over reacting if u remember what they did when they opened SRW.
    My personal opinion about Darin has changed tho, I didn’t know he was like this

  • Ryan Gilmore

    Rob – any chance on some pagination on the comments? getting hard to keep up :D

  • Anette Head

    Well dear Gangi:

    If you really thought the people here were such disgusting little creatures, why is it that you never complained before about your shows being profiled here? Oh wait, because it served your needs then – but now that you’ve put yourself in bed with the entity known as SRW, suddenly virtualr has become irrelevant and populated by bottom feeders? Is that about right?

    Matey – you have no shame and no honor.

    You say: ‘“Montoya” .. Who are you and why is your opinion significant ? … Who are you ? Some dude that posts sim news ?’

    ‘Some dude who posts sim news?’ Dude – firstly you have the diction of a ten year old, and the maturity of a five year old. That’s one. Two, if our friend here at virtualr wanted to interview Dave Kaemmer, or these other names you throw about like a teenage groupie after being gangbanged, it would take about 15 seconds to set up – dude – because – dude – “montoya” has the biggest sim-racing website in the world. In a day, his traffic dwarfes yours – and those dodgy characters who ‘sponsor’ your show.

    I know – you’ll probably say, Wait, RSC is bigger – but then you’d be wrong. You often are, though, aren’t you, Gangi. Because RSC no longer exists, it is a front for your employers and sponsors, who are actively using a userbase they stole from the old RSC – just as they’re using the userbase they stole from rFactor central.

    Now try and follow – dude – I know this is probably way over your head (which admittedly takes a lot considering that swollen fat member you call a head is floating at 10,000 feet from sheer ego) but, see, because you buy a website, you don’t get to keep the userbase. That is – in English – illegal. In German, it’s verboten. And in plain old legalise, unless the current userbase is asked for permission for their names and IDs to be used by the new owners of said websites, the transfer of private information (which RSC and rfactorcentral assured their userbase would never be sold as part of their membership clause) to SRW or any other entity is illegal by US and EU laws. And that makes your sponsors illegal. And that makes everything you say and do – including the shameful remark that, “P.S. If you’d like to read unbiased / original content from sim racers without masks on or agendas, head to RaceSimCentral.com” -irrelevant (not to mention about the most retarded comment ever witnessed, or typed, in the history of the internet. Naturally, it’s about par for the course for you).

    I should also add, Gangi, that your abusive posts that have permeated the community are well-known. You have a foul mouth, Gangi, and a foul temper – and how iRacing, or ISI, or anyone else have anything to do with you reflects very poorly on our community indeed – and especially on them.

    You ask ‘WHO ARE YOU??’.

    WHO ARE YOU? Lol. It amuses me, I picture you storming into your local mickeyds shouting, ‘do you know who I am?! I am DARIN GANGI! I have – SPOKEN – to Dale EARNHARDT JR!!!! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? GIVE ME MY HAPPY MEAL! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? GIVE ME MY FREEDOM FRIES NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’

    Well actually, Gangi, I don’t have a clue who you are. Who are you, Gangi? I have run a search on you on Bloombergs, and Bigdough, and a few other commercial search engines at work, and you know what? I get zero results for you. Why is that, Gangi? Not one credit on any show, in your entire life. Not one published article, not one credit, on anything, ever.

    So either you’re using an alias – dude – or you really are a bit of a nonentity. Which is it, Gangi? A 40 year old failure? Or someone using an alias? I mean, I know what you look like – but then again, I also know what John Travolta looks like. So who are you really, Gangi? Besides some sweating oaf on the internet making a monkey of yourself for small change.

    Dear Gangi, I could continue, but I suspect I’m not telling you anything you haven’t been told by countless people through your life. I see over at the iracing forum you say, “I would put us in the same category as the team on Top Gear, informers and or entertainers.I also think we do have some journalist as well as critic in us.”

    Oh dear Gangi – oh dear oh dear. Gangi, dude, the guys on Top Gear get paid a million dollars an episode, dude – dude – they have the most watched motoring show in the world. Dude – seriously. ‘We do have some journalist as well as critic in us’ – dude, dude, seriosuly – no, you don’t.

    You do ‘interviews’ – and you hype-up products that are given to you for free, and tear down those that aren’t. Simple as that – you have no credibility as journalists, and you have no credibiity as critics because, as you demonstrate with your sponsorship with SRW, you have no intergrity to begin with. This community is simply a convenient place from whence you can milk some cash. Not, you know, that it amounts to much … What do you guys make per show? 2K? 1? It shows, too – your production levels, dude – are you filming that crap in your granma’s basement? Smelly – and what’s with all the sweating and dodgy staring – it’s like a porn version of American Psycho, I keep excpecting one of you to take out a hatchet and start hacking away at poor Jessica. Not, you know, that hacking would be a stretch for your talents … but really, you sweating through the shows like some pervert on a subway and your buddy baldy with those shifty eyes of his – seriously, dude, you have a pleasant enough show as an unprofessional internet production for hobbyists, and bless you for all your hard work. But dude – don’t tell me you actually think you matter.

    ‘Are you Greger Huttu, David Greco, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Dave Kaemmer, Thomas Jackermeier, or even someone who has really sim raced. Like as in a competition?’ you ask.

    Well I think you were referring to the posters here, but I’m afraid I can only answer for myself. Nope. I am not. I am not Greger Huttu, or David Greco, both of whom – I can only assume – agree with your comments here. Poor Greger – I’ve known him for a decade and I imagine he’s cringing at this.

    Dale Earnhardt Jr? Not him. Don’t know him either. Actually, I don’t even wear Wrangler jeans. What about you, Gangi? Do you speak to Dale often? What does he say about your show? Has he promised to reward your talents with, dude, like, dude, a real TV show? Is he, like, dude, a mate of yours? If he is, have him post here – I have a question for him. Or heck, have him post on your forum – anywhere, really, since he’s your bitch and everything. Go on, Gangi, show us your celebrity status.

    Now this Thomas Jackermeier guy – is he the guy behind Fanatec? I wonder how he feels about having his name associated with a post – on sim-racing’s biggest website – that includes insults against the community? Guess we’ll find out. Dave Kaemmer I know will be spinning about in his office when he sees this mess. Trust me, dear Gangi. Or are you suggesting Dave Kaemmer shares your view of the community? Were you quoting him there, Gangi?

    And Race Dept? Enemies of yours too, I see.

    You really seem to have a lot of enemies in this community – why do you think that is, Gangi? Must be your talent – I’m sure of it. I think we all wake up every day thinking – Christ I wish I had me one of them there internet shows where I can sit around staring like a mad beaver at a cheapo computer-camera. Yup – that must be it, Gangi – we all envy you. That’s why you’re so hated.

    And tell me – Gangi – how do you think Gjon at ISI feels knowing that there are dozens of post on iRacing of people saying they won’t buy rFactor2 based on what you have done here?
    http://members.iracing.com/iforum/thread.jspa?threadID=77375&start=75&tstart=60

    Well Gangi? How does it feel to sabotage a developer’s future product because of your psychotic self-importance?

    Let me tell you a last thing, dear Gangi: As a (self-described) journalist and a critic, you have a responsibility. It’s one you took on when you began your little show. Sure, it may not shift a lot of products, and most people take you about as seriously as they do Ricki Martin’s heterosexuality, and sure, you don’t have the most important website in this community, or the most popular, or the most interesting, or the most informative, or the most influential, but damaging a developer for your own ends? That’s just simply abysmal behaiviour. rfactor2 is sold to modders, modders are boycotting SRW and RSC by the droves, and you preview an interview with Gjon Camaj on that site? Jesus, dude – seriously.

    And you come here like some form of celebrity decrying the state of the community? Dude – seriously. Sim-racing is our hobby – it’s what we do between running our lives. You, Gangi, are trying to make a living out of it, which is a bit sad, isn’t it? For a 40 year old man, I mean? And you think nothing of hurting one of our most important developers for your own ends? You ought to be ashamed of yourself – but then, that would assume you’re a professional. Which you’re not. It would also assume you’re a mensch. Which you’re not.

    But I have a real question to ask you – did you ask Gjon, to allow this video to be put up there? Did you warn him about the consequences? Or did you just think, Bugger it, this is good for my wallet and screw everyone else? Just curious, Gangi. How far you would you go – and how indifferent are you – to both the community and the developers in order to score your own infantile, irrelevant little points?

    Dear Gangi – let me just say this. You run a tiny website for a tiny commununity. Sim-racing is a niche within a niche. We are so small we don’t even count as a blip on the net. Now that does nothing to diminish your output, or your work; the community should always respect the amount of work you do on your show. You have my respect in that capacity.

    But the problem, Gangi, is that you’re also a bit of a wanker. Know what I mean? You’re not more important than this community, Gangi. Given a choice between 10 of us, and 1 of you, every single name you dropped would drop you faster than a lawsuit. Do you understand, Gangi? We matter – you don’t. And that, ultimately, is what really gets to you, isn’t it. Self-absorbed and arrogant as you are, you just can’t understand why, can you? And it eats you up, Gangi, because for some peculiar reason you think you deserve so much more. But the truth is, mate, you’re not very good at what you do: In fact, your show is rather bad. Which doesn’t mean the community is poorer for it – the reverse is true, of course. We all benefit from it. But let’s be honest – if this was a community that mattered, you’d be laughed out of town, you and your show. You’re a small fish in a small pond, mate. And you can name drop as much as you want but the thing is – we’re not impressed. Because this is your living – and most of us know if we were this crap at our jobs, we’d probably be running an internet show like you, too.

  • http://www.iracingdanmark.dk Richard Torp Jensen

    Anette – how old are you? Calling people a wanker…OMG…You should suppose to be a better person than Darin Gangin – you showed you are much worser…just my opinion…

  • Nestor Martin

    OK 3OO posts, not bad! You got yourself some publicity there my dear Darin (negative but it’s better than none).
    Well I can’t really be mad at you, but it wasn’t very smart.
    And at the end off the day what is important is that we have quite talented and hard working people giving us things for free! It’s getting rare in this world and I hope it continues.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    @Anette: Sheesh and I thought I typed long posts ! I dunno how many people are going to trudge though that post given its content.
    You know, Darin’s last post here may have been unwise and in the heat of the moment (and even to this day he thinks that everyone who posts here, lives here and visits no other sim-racing sites. He also seems to think that the negative posts that pissed him off are opinions representative of all of us and is grouping us all in a a lynch mob (or linch as he spells it) at VirtualR.)

    But compared to your posts, Darins was small potatoes. Yours is just a constant diatribe from start to finish. What were you hoping to achieve with that post ? A reply from Darin ? Don’t think that will happen.

    Hopefully it is clear that your comments do not reflect the opinions of everyone here or anywhere. I notice your use of the word “we’re” but I don’t know who else you think you were speaking for.

    300+ posts now and this is getting so tired and really needs to wind down to a close now. I get the feeling EP62 might not release in the same way as EP61 did. At least not after this chaos. How many viewers they get will be another thing. Maybe more now since this fiasco. Imagine the irony.

  • felipe

    First he says hes in the same category as Top Gear. I feel for the man’s sanity hes definitely out of control and then the most shocking of all he “reveals” the show was never meant for sim racers but casual gamers.

    Every one who sent him sim gear must feel cheated why would you send a gaming chair or some other stuff when he was aiming the casual gamers and we know casual gamers will buy Grid or NFS :roll:
    I can’t believe what Darin continues to post I’m stunned Darin just stop it and go. Continue with your life post Ep.62 for the casual gamers.


    I would put us in the same category as the team on Top Gear, informers and or entertainers.I also think we do have some journalist as well as critic in us.

    I personally love to show everyone in our community and really outside of our community, everything our cool hobby has to offer. When we originally planned the show, it wasn’t to draw sim racers into watching..But to draw others into it that have never heard of sim racing. Thats the informers in us..
    Darin Gangi

    Now continue to send him sim gears and supporting him Fanatec!

  • driving god

    (Real) YouTube version is up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBEmg7a3Y8Q

    Could someone tell me when the rF2 footage starts? I’ve nearly hit my download limit and don’t want to end up watching 40 minutes of the douchebag reviewing MX/ATV.

  • Jack_NL

    @ 32:12

  • Jack_NL

    Jack_NL: @ 32:12

    make it 35:00

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    It’s funny Darin says the posts over at the iRacing forum support his actions but the majority of the posts I have read share the views of VirtualR viewers. I guess Darin thinks all VirtulR users want everything for free and don’t have a sub at iRacing to be able to view the forums over there?

  • felipe

    ermax18: It’s funny Darin says the posts over at the iRacing forum support his actions but the majority of the posts I have read share the views of VirtualR viewers. I guess Darin thinks all VirtulR users want everything for free and don’t have a sub at iRacing to be able to view the forums over there?

    I noticed that too lol! I stayed out of the discussion in the iRacing forums for a good reason :sd:

  • felipe

    ermax18: It’s funny Darin says the posts over at the iRacing forum support his actions but the majority of the posts I have read share the views of VirtualR viewers. I guess Darin thinks all VirtulR users want everything for free and don’t have a sub at iRacing to be able to view the forums over there?

    I noticed that as well lol! Two or three guys only suddenly became the whole of iRacing! I stayed out of the discussion in the iRacing forums for a good reason :sd:

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    Sort of like two or three guys at VirtualR became the “community”. :lol:

  • felipe

    ermax18: Sort of like two or three guys at VirtualR became the “community”.

    you mean sort of two or three guys here supported VirtualR? :roll: I don’t think so!

  • Nestor Martin

    Last night I thought I’d re watch the show now that it’s on a descent player, I couldn’t do it! But somehow they remind me of those guys :lol:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb902famo-8&feature=related
    Oh sorry I just couldn’t resist.

  • Nestor Martin

    This could explain the situation. :lol:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXvkD7kpu8I&feature=related
    Stealing IS bad!

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    felipe:
    you mean sort of two or three guys here supported VirtualR? I don’t think so!

    No, no.. I am referring to the way Darin had a problem with a handful of guys here and then labeled them the “community”.

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