VirtualR – Sim Racing News
100% Sim Racing News

Another interesting show. The RC sim was interesting. Something different. I’d never bother with it, but it was interesting to learn about it. I do like the Sim index better. It’s not perfect either, but it’s not possible to have a perfect index to match everyone’s preference. It is more geared to what matters to a hardcore sim fan though.

Jack B: Another interesting show. The RC sim was interesting. Something different. I’d never bother with it, but it was interesting to learn about it. I do like the Sim index better. It’s not perfect either, but it’s not possible to have a perfect index to match everyone’s preference. It is more geared to what matters to a hardcore sim fan though.

Not this relatively hardcore sim fan. :)

I really think the notion that sims can only be on-line is way off the mark. If I want to simulate the 2009 F1 season I want to race Button, Hamilton and the rest. If I want to simulate the 1967 F1 season I want to race Jim Clark and Graham Hill. Its part of the immersion. I don’t want to race John Smith and Fred Jones as I would if I raced on-line. On-line racing has its place of course but its not more of a simulation than racing AI – its more generic really. An online race is likely to be full of Lotuses rather than the real mix of cars on a 1967 grid.

And if Jim Clark is at the back of the grid, thats a failure in the simulation just as much as if the Lotus 49 physics resulted in it being the slowest car on the grid. But apparently how well a simulator simulates other drivers isn’t important.

Personally – I’d have two categories – on-line sims and off-line sims. Of course some sims could score in both categories.

The “Sim index” made me cringe.

You took out AI score – ability to play offline, play when I want and when I want to race against opponents I know won’t drive backwards.

You took out presentation – so what good understandable setup screens and menus come under graphics now?

You took out price – lol, if price wasn’t a concern most of us would be playing on iRacing instead of rFactor, putting sound and modding out of picture for a second.

In all honesty I think you should just stick with what you got currently. We all know the line between simulation and video game can’t be black and white nowadays, take a look at Forza 3 and the direction that the NFS series took with Shift and why VirtualR (and we) take an interest.

This (yet another) new rating system enforces that the video game elements aren’t important, obviously. But they just are. Because Forza 3 and Shift tends to have the professional content and quality that our niche sims just can’t get at.

Fans already told you what SRT needs more of; mod reviews. How about some sim comparisons too, across the board with the same vehicles? You have like every product on hand on every platform with every racing wheel, I don’t… and I want unbiased testing to see which is better at making me believe I’m driving the car I am, and making it a fun experience -with those important video game elements.

We still have the 100 point scale.. We can’t please everyone… Sorry..

Mod review’s ?? We looks at mods every show in Top Sim Cars. Which one you want to see ? You want us to put it on our sim index ? What fans are lining up for mod reviews ? You mean the ones that everyone can download for free and try themselves

We just are pointing out what makes a hard core simulation. Shaun and I both agreed that we don’t care what it costs (within reason), We’d prefer to race versus humans, and we don’t care if we have to boot up a dos window to play the best sim in the world.. If it provides the best racing, thats the most immmersive, etc.. Thats the one we want to race..

To each his own and it’s our opinions.. Thanks for watching.. Please post your suggestions in our forum and we always look at things to change the show for the better.

Darin Gangi

carbonfibre: The “Sim index” made me cringe.You took out AI score – ability to play offline, play when I want and when I want to race against opponents I know won’t drive backwards.You took out presentation – so what good understandable setup screens and menus come under graphics now?You took out price – lol, if price wasn’t a concern most of us would be playing on iRacing instead of rFactor, putting sound and modding out of picture for a second.In all honesty I think you should just stick with what you got currently. We all know the line between simulation and video game can’t be black and white nowadays, take a look at Forza 3 and the direction that the NFS series took with Shift and why VirtualR (and we) take an interest. This (yet another) new rating system enforces that the video game elements aren’t important, obviously. But they just are. Because Forza 3 and Shift tends to have the professional content and quality that our niche sims just can’t get at.Fans already told you what SRT needs more of; mod reviews. How about some sim comparisons too, across the board with the same vehicles? You have like every product on hand on every platform with every racing wheel, I don’t… and I want unbiased testing to see which is better at making me believe I’m driving the car I am, and making it a fun experience -with those important video game elements.

Lol !

Dirt 2 above Race series in sim scoring.

Where do they have their minds?

16.3/20 for the Formula Master physics? That’s a lot for a car that uses numbers in it’s physic files that are so far away from the real life data… How do you rate the physics? Just put some random number between 15 and 20?

Well, real numbers or not, it the best open-wheel I’ve driven in any sim or racing game.

I personnally don’t care if the numbers are real or not. As long as it feels convincing.

So why even bother with physic ratings then? What you describe is more a fun rating not a physics rating. And how can it feel convincing when it’s not accurate at all?

erale: And how can it feel convincing when it’s not accurate at all?

How do you know it’s not accurate ? Because of numbers in a physics file ? Really ?
What if the core of the physics engine wasn’t 100% accurate and to re-adjust for this inaccuracy you had to make some of the numbers a little off from the real world figures in order to compensate and get the car feeling as it should.
The numbers are all relative. What matters is the final result, if the behaviour is accurate and believable.

Unless of course it is proven that if you use the exact real world figures for a car then it reacts on track exactly how it would in real life. 100% guaranteed. Is that the case ?

ISRacing: Mod review’s ?? ….. You mean the ones that everyone can download for free and try themselves

heh, gotta give you that. Fair point :D

In the Dirt I guess.. Must be all that Codemasters revenue we’re getting.. LOL

LensFlare: Lol !Dirt 2 above Race series in sim scoring.Where do they have their minds?

For me, a good simulation is one that convinces me that I’m no longer sitting at a desk in a comfortable room looking at a monitor, but rather fully immersed in driving a car, fast! I want to feel the panic when I go sideways, and the relief when I catch it (or disappoint when I crash !). Physics are definitely a top priority for me; I don’t have a hi-end pc, so graphics are always turned down, and I never race on or offline (I just like driving). The problem I see is that “physics”, or the way the you feel the car handles, is always going to be highly subjective. The only car I’ve owned is an old Ford Fiesta, and hence I’ve never driven a race car, or even a high performance car, so it is impossible for me to know if the physics of a particular game/sim are completely accurate, but I can make an educated guess. I believe it also depends on what you are driving with; the feedback I get from my G25 may be completely different to what you are getting with another a wheel, or even the same one! For example, I leave rotation at 900, especially for the HistorX mod for rFactor (my personal favourite!), which effectively forces me to slow down for tight bends (otherwise can’t turn the wheel quick enough), and ultimately slows my lap times down, but for me that’s more realistic. Besides, surely if a sim was truly 100% realistic, then the majority of us wouldn’t be able to drive it without crashing all the time (rather like RBR lol).

Anyway, I would hate to see race sims become solely online experiences, because I’m sure there are plenty of customers out there (including myself) that never race online!

WhiteRose: For me, a good simulation is one that convinces me that I’m no longer sitting at a desk in a comfortable room looking at a monitor, but rather fully immersed in driving a car, fast!

I know what you’re trying to say, but no sim will ever separate me from the reality that I’m sat in a room looking at a monitor.
If I ever get convinced otherwise I think I would need a padded room.
Suspended belief like watching a good movie is enough.

About the new “Sim Index”:

You take out AI, but leave multiplayer in, and take out cost as well.

There is no better way to push IRacing to top of the list.

Please don’t tell me there is no financial connection between the show and IRacing.

Bruno:
About the new “Sim Index”:
You take out AI, but leave multiplayer in, and take out cost as well.
There is no better way to push IRacing to top of the list.
Please don’t tell me there is no financial connection between the show and IRacing.

true thats what i thought
but as an iracer (i do every sim) i can say the cars belong on top of that list physic and grafical wise. i have driven a solestice,jetta,radical & nascar in real live and they are spot on (atleast more than in other sims)

F1Racer:
How do you know it’s not accurate ?Because of numbers in a physics file ?Really ?
What if the core of the physics engine wasn’t 100% accurate and to re-adjust for this inaccuracy you had to make some of the numbers a little off from the real world figures in order to compensate and get the car feeling as it should.
The numbers are all relative.What matters is the final result, if the behaviour is accurate and believable.Unless of course it is proven that if you use the exact real world figures for a car then it reacts on track exactly how it would in real life. 100% guaranteed.Is that the case ?

Well if the engine doesn’t compute the numbers correct it’s not worth calling it a simulation.

Also the numbers for the Formula Master are not a little off. They are far off the real numbers when comparing them with the Formula Master manual.

So either the physics engine sucks or the number used for the simulated car. In either case you can’t say the physics are great or the behaviour is accurate.

I wasn’t saying the engine didn’t compute the numbers. Just that if you put in a certain value does it 100% accurately model that behaviour ?

I think unless you’ve sampled the real thing, you can’t say its accurate anyway.
So if you have to fudge the numbers because you either dont have the real data or have nothing else to draw on then the goal must then be to make it believable.

Bruno: There is no better way to push IRacing to top of the list.Please don’t tell me there is no financial connection between the show and IRacing.

Bingo!

F1Racer: I wasn’t saying the engine didn’t compute the numbers.Just that if you put in a certain value does it 100% accurately model that behaviour ?I think unless you’ve sampled the real thing, you can’t say its accurate anyway.
So if you have to fudge the numbers because you either dont have the real data or have nothing else to draw on then the goal must then be to make it believable.

It’s ok if you don’t have the real data and using numbers you think they should fit to that type of car. As we see most people don’t realize how far off the cars are from their original counterparts and still think these physics are realistic.

But if you test these cars in a show as the top simulated cars then you shouldn’t call the physics good when they’re not. Maybe the physics are fun to drive and give you the feeling of driving an open wheeler but that doesn’t make the physics realistic.

LOL you guys have to much time on your hands!

If you do not agree with them, just write your own review instead of reviewing their scoring system…

Does it really matter how good or bad your favorite sim scores on their list, when it is already your favorite sim, why do you need this “approval”?

It would be nice if they could just go more in depth about the details when comparing the sims/cars, like they “kind of” did on this episode, rather than just comparing the scores (numbers doesn’t tell anything).

One thing you might have missed, is that this episode is actually a very good introduction for someone who wants to try something more serious than just forza or GT.

Wrongo !! We pull numbers out of our scoring just to put iRacing on top ? iRacing is not a current sponsor of ours. We do not change our numbers for our sponsors nor have we been asked to..

LOL !! Have you thought that it might help titles like rFactor as well? rFactors AI is horrible (unless properly coded per mod). rFactors presentation is not that great and you need to do a lot of file management to make it a worth while title.

On the Sim Index, it should do well though..

Like Zenitchik said.. Why do you need our approval??? Do a review on your own and post it for everyone to see. We’re just a couple of sim racers telling you our opinions.. Anyone can fire up their camera and do a You Tube review.. Or create a website and blog..

Thats what we did..

felipe: Bingo!

OK since you obviously read the commnets here i need to tell you my opinion about your show All-and-all i like it, but no matter if you are payed to push iRacing or you just like it more than others, you should really be carefull with your scores. I mean that this sim rating and the rescoring of the Lotus 79(but no rescoring of one of the fist cars – the Ferrary 575 from GTR2) doesn’t look good in my/ours eyes. In fact i thing you consetrate too mutch in the scores thamselfs than what really matters. You dont need a “sim rating” to tell people that iRacing is the best – all you need is to show it and say it, and then the score will represent what it actualy is – fare to all the competition(and to be honnest iRacing it too expensive and laks presentation, AI and graphics). The other thing i really HATE is that american commersial voise Darin puts on, the “home of the one-click-install” and announcing what this episode is about and esspecialy the “top sim cars” announcement where the cars involved are presented sometimes 3-4 time before they are put on the scale. And if you are trying to be like Top Geat you’ll know that they save a lot for the show and save the surprise and don’t tell us in the begging of the show what car is put on the track or will be tested in this episode. One more thing what is with “that wraps it up”, “here you are” and sh!t like this if it was a f… chore to do that review or whatever. And last but not least – Jessica is cool but she does not look belieable in any way that she has any idea of racing or simracing what-so-ever. Anyway not a bad efford guys – keep it up!

Hey Stig, first of all http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Using%20the%20spell%20checker#Correcting_misspelled_words <- try it, everyone else is using it!

TheSTIG: you should really be carefull with your scores. I mean that this sim rating and the rescoring of the Lotus 79…..

You take this way to serious, just come down to earth for once! We are playing games and they are making a show about it. Isn’t it neat!

TheSTIG: OK since you ….yada yada yada….. racing or simracing what-so-ever. Anyway not a bad efford guys – keep it up!

As for your spelling, not a bad effort but keep at it.
Anyway now that you posted and obviously read this, I really needed to give you my opinion.
Yikes, you are bitter! Like they said, its a couple of guys giving their opinion about sim racing. You are far too judgemental here. You make it sound like you are in a meeting with them and you are their boss telling them whats wrong in the jobs they do. You have no controlling interest here.
First your insinuation that they may be paid to push iRacing is totally ridiculous and brazen.
I hardly think iRacing would want to or need to use such underhand tactics, let alone SRT accepting to do that. Credibility would be lost on both sides and no-one’s going to risk that. So unless you have proof, it’s maybe better to not put your foot in it and say such things.
iRacing, even though I don’t personally use it, is clearly a big force in the sim world at the moment. There is now getting away from it getting mentioned frequently. I’m just guessing here but it seems iRacing is pretty much right up there when it comes to people wanting as realistic a sim experience as they can possibly get – but that comes at a price because its a provided service not a store bought game.

Next you criticise Darin’s voice. Is this really what you want to get across to these guys ? What is a commercialised voice anyway ? It’s American for a reason though so he’s kinda stuck with that unless you want him to maybe do a celebrity impersonation when he’s advertising a sponsors message.
Then you don’t like ‘that wraps it up’. Hmmm ok. Got any suggestions what exact wording you would like to hear instead ? How about, ‘There ya go, stick that up yer tailpipe.’ ?
I’m guessing your nickname and your strange Top Gear reference was no coincidence either.

The only thing I would agree with you on (surprise, surprise) is the mentioning of what cars will be reviewed in the Top Sim Cars section at the start of the programme. I would also prefer not to know and find out when the times comes.
But hey, it’s not going to ruin my day if they don’t.

So calm down a bit, brush up on your spelling and learn about paragraphs.
Remember also, you don’t HAVE to watch SRT at all. It’s optional.

Oh come on guys I’m bitter? My respect to you, as i read your comments sometimes and mostly i agree with you, but give me a break – i have a right to comment and when i feel like it i do so. Fist of all about iRacing – someone sad it before me so decided to mansion it too because for me it is strange how this sim is always pushed up in this show. Again i say that if they feel it is the best – it shows, so no need to redo the scoring system to make obvious. That sad – with “you have to be careful with your scores” i meant that if they want their score system to be taken seriously (and obviously they do) i think that changing it every 2-3 episodes is not going to help. And these are no “boss” critics – they are just a suggestion from my point of view. As far as i noticed they encourage people to post their comments.
As someone who is born and lives in Europe – yes i HATE these “american commercial” voices and i think that most of the people on the planet do. What is a “americal commercial voice”? Switch the TV channel to a TV Shopping show and listen. I’m sorry but Darin or whoever can speak like a normal person but when it comes to commercials they change their voice and pronunciation like they talk to a bunch of mentally challenged people. But i guess that is what americans are… (pls don’t bomb me now ). I just think that the guys are embarrassing themselves doing so.
Yes my nick is obviously inspired by Top Gear (i really didn’t put much thinking when regestring here) but the reference was no coincidence – they sad that the “top sim cars” thing is inspired by TG.
All and all i do like the show and i’m surprised that they pushed it to that level (as i’m watching it from the begging). They do know what whey are talking about and mostly i agree with them. It just lacks presentation or coolness .. i’m sure you know what i mean
As about my spelling – point taken (even if i think that is a little desperate/low attempt to hurt me). I do need to improve it, but hey, it is not my native language and i’m learning.
And finally – Shaun, Darin, Jessica – your show, mine/our opinions.. Like i sad good work so keep it up

Disagree with your ratings but thats subjectivity for you. Spot on about the driving schools, the LFS and RBR driving schools were absolute gold for me.
All in all an interesting ep, and 24 comments without a crude remark about Jessica must be some sort of new record around here…..