VirtualR – Sim Racing News
100% Sim Racing News

..and what will follow now in comments and general debate about this will be a classic demonstration of human psychology.

Many have taken an extreme view, reacted in a knee-jerk fashion, and will find it very hard to change their thinking otherwise. They will claim that Simraceway are still ‘hiding something’ and look for the slightest indication that this is true so they can somehow justify to themselves the overreaction.

Others will eat humble pie, so to speak, and move on.

Seriously, this whole episode, and the so-called ‘Race-On’ boycott, has demonstrated the general immaturity of this community. I’ll keep downloading mods regardless of who creates them, but seriously if the community keeps this up it’ll find itself with arcade games as its only options in the years to come.

Its no wonder that ISI, Simbin and Blimey don’t engage more with the community. If I was in their shoes I wouldn’t either. Everyone should grow up.

Give’em hell montaya! Also the commenter above me seems to need a reality check himself. Simraceway wants to make money off work that is not their own. Even worse Reality Check(I mean Simraceway), thinks this is his right and the community is just immature for not accepting this.

Well here’s your reality check. Most mod makers don’t want to make money off this because they know that they don’t own the copyright on much of their material. Now if a simple mod maker knows this why doesn’t a “business” know this? Or I suppose car makers should just “grow up.”

rFactor planet?

Quite sad it’s limited to rFactor. Would be better if it was open to any moddable platform, with better respect than nogrip.

Sodapop:
Give’em hell montaya!

I don’t want to give anybody “hell”, I just want to encourage people to think about what’s going on and look past pr speak in statements..

But thanks for the support

No, Sodapop, Reality Check is right at least when he talks about the “attitude”.

I wouldn’t be very keen on “working with” that kind of community either if I were to be a game developper.

False rumors spread by fanboys of other platforms, superior attitude when it comes to whining about this and that without trying to understand the reason why it’s like that, having no consideration whatsoever for copyrights while having at the same time a huge one on asking permission to other modders to convert their work, but not asking any developer team if it’s ok to do something with theirs, etc.

The community might be growing as we speak. Let’s not show that kind of example of attitude to newcomers. Let’s all grow up, and maybe we will be pleased to see that yes, PC simulators will continue to be released.

It’s our “work” to help and support developers who make the type of games we like.

SRW HAS NO TRANSPARENCY AT ALL! THEY INDEED PLANNED ON CHARGING EVERY USER FOR USING THEIR NEW SITE AND PLANNED ON MAKING A PROFIT FROM EACH AND EVERY MOD POSTED THERE. NOW THEY TALK AS IF EVERYTHING WAS A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING WHICH WASN’T THEY LIED AND ARE STILL LYING TO US. SOME NEED TO STEEP IN AND FEEL THE GAP LEFT FOR US GAMERS AND MODERS ALIKE! HOPEFULLY RFACTOR FANS WILL FIND A NEW HOME SOMEWHERE ELSE SRW LIED FROM THE BEGINNING AND ARE NOW TRYING TO COVER UP THEIR MESS WITH MORE LIES. SHAME ON YOU FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON ME FOOL ME TWICE AND YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ME FOR THE 2ND TIME RFACTORCENTRAL AKA SRW!!!

Trust Petros to sell out lol

The statements and general crap can go on, it’s obvious we’re not getting the whole story and the way simraceway has gone about stuff leads me to wish them failure in the most humiliating way :)

“So to be 100% clear on this monetization issue – there will be no direct monetization of your work . The site will however generally monetize through premium features, WHICH ARE LARGELY FOCUSED TOWARDS ONLINE RACING. However, ONE ASPECT of these premium features will be high speed downloads similar to that provided by Rapidshare and Megaupload (which charge $9.99 per month for this service) .”

What I changed to caps contradicts everything this guy stated beforehand, he said they would not, then he says they would. Mr PR seems to be confused about his own story.

“IP Rights / Commercialization
Regarding the fears of legal action from brand owners, I understand this and we are aware of the problem generally. It is one that we have a fairly detailed plan to resolve. However, we feel the solution here lies in actually legitimizing modding as an activity, rather than just trying to keep its head below the radar. Obviously that means rights acquisition and we’ll talk more on that down the line.”

This proves that they don’t know what the repercussions of using unlicensed material will cause. Especially where there is money involved, I can already see mods being taken down because they don’t have a license to use certain cars and so on

smashingpunk007:
“IP Rights / Commercialization
Regarding the fears of legal action from brand owners, I understand this and we are aware of the problem generally. It is one that we have a fairly detailed plan to resolve. However, we feel the solution here lies in actually legitimizing modding as an activity, rather than just trying to keep its head below the radar. Obviously that means rights acquisition and we’ll talk more on that down the line.”
This proves that they don’t know what the repercussions of using unlicensed material will cause. Especially where there is money involved, I can already see mods being taken down because they don’t have a license to use certain cars and so on

I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion based on the quoted passage. They obviously know much better than the the modding community what they are up to regarding licenses, and are working on resolving those issues, rather than “keeping their head below the radar” like the modding community prefers to do.

That’s one of their ridiculous plans. Please use your head, the most popular mods for rFactor all simulate high-profile series, especially Formula One.

There is absolutely no way to get a license for that, especially not for some little outfit that employs a handfull of people.

“Keeping the head under the radar” is the only possible way for most of these mods to exist. Unless it’s a really small and unpopular series, nobody will be able to get any licenses for this stuff.

I will summarize my posts from RSC about this issue in one post here:

I see where Simraceway has attempted to make itself legitimate in the eyes of the sim racing community by publishing a letter of support from MMG head Petros Mak in an attempt to blunt the boycott by many major mod teams.

Well, whoop-dee-freaking-do!

Since when has MMG been the leading voice of morality, decency and ethics for the modding community? Any time an MMG mod is released, every sim racing forum becomes a morass of mud-slinging, name calling and blind accusations between the MMG team and the community, and between the MMG team and those who have left it acrimoniously during the mod’s development.

MMG and Simraceway are a match made in arrogance heaven. Both have the attitude that they’re saving the sim racing community with their respective offerings, and both appear to have little regard for feedback from the community. They’re peas in a pod.

My negative opinion of simraceway.com hasn’t changed a bit just because Petros Mak is in bed with it. If anything, it has stiffened my stance against the site.

The arrogance and lack of outreach toward the community by Simraceway is appalling. These guys are snake-oil salesmen. Even Helen Keller or Ray Charles could see the backtracking from their original intent of profiting from the hard work of the free mod community.

Finally, anyone who compares simraceway.com to iRacing is clueless. Utterly clueless. iRacing develops all of its content in-house and then uses it for a subscription-based service. It doesn’t use mods created by other developers and then reap profits from their work. It also negotiates and pays for licensing rights for cars and tracks with sanctioning bodies and racetracks.

iRacing officials also are upfront about their future plans and seek comment from the iRacing community about those proposed changes. Just look at the huge thread started by iRacing owner John Henry at the iRacing forums this week about the possibility of league racing at iRacing. There’s total transparency, something we’ll probably never get from Simraceway.

This Simraceway group clearly hasn’t received the memo that it needs the sim racing community a hell of a lot more than the sim racing community needs it.

jux:

I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion based on the quoted passage. They obviously know much better than the the modding community what they are up to regarding licenses, and are working on resolving those issues, rather than “keeping their head below the radar” like the modding community prefers to do.

Obviously I’m basing my thoughts on the information that has been around since the announcement of SRW and the whole article in question. I quoted something that I thought relevant to the situation.

The first rule of being a salesman is, putting forth an image of being a successful knowledgeable business man. “We have all the answers, We know more than you.” I’ve been around salesmen all my life, and that letter is a sales pitch. If you think that they KNOW more than you, thats fine. But I’m not a gullible person. Let those guys make their own mods, and use those. When legal action is taken towards them let them go down for it. Not the modders who created the work to be shared freely. They need the support of the modding community to survive, support that I will not give them.

I agree with what you posted Paul Kelly, their sales pitch has been terrible since the beginning and it isn’t getting any better.

You know, based on experiences I had today in my racing league, and reading this, I’ve come to the conclusion that this community is obviously largely populated by people with a mental age of 12.

Simraceway can go to hell. I will never use their service. The own of RFC is a whore. Glad I never donated.

The mod groups… I lose track of which are assholes and which aren’t. One reason I no longer pay much attention to the mod scene. It’s 99% hype anyway. It’s like a microcosm of the software industry. All hype, very little substance.

Getting too old for this shit.

Fuckings to simraceway for making business out of this.

MMG / Pedros Mak to the rescue….

Formula One copyrights don’t allow any commercial use of their contents, in any way.
The only way Formula one mods exists is they are fully free.
It’s not allowed to make money of it, with exra features or not.
The licence has been sold to codemaster, and they will attack as soon as this commercial use will appear.
How can Simraceway has been able to make a business plan, forgetting this???????
It’s not serious… Find an otherway to make money guys, your plans will make you loose…
(Sorry for my bad english)

felipe:
STHEY INDEED PLANNED ON CHARGING EVERY USER FOR USING THEIR NEW SITE

Spendig a couple of seconds in trying to understand what other wrote instead of screaming using capital letters would probably lead to better results.

Much has been said about SRW’s (potential) plans and the way they approached the racing sim comunity. In the end with only 10 days left, I don’t see that anything will stop them or change their mind. Some mod groups will be onboard from the beginning (seems to be the case for e.g. MMG) while others don’t (as RLD declared on RSC). I think it’s SRW’s right to offer their services. On the other hand it’s our right not to make use of that services and everyone who thinks has good reasons may try to take legal actions in the worst case (I don’t know what the chances would be). If we find mods of those groups on SRW that have declined, SRW would prove that you cannot trust them. If not, well, there might still be hope that things can be sorted out. I think it’s time to calm down a bit and back up your favourite links on rFC, just in case they will not be available on SRW.

I read this from MMG/Petros’ clarification:

“Keeping in mind that subscription is for high speed download server access and of course online races on the SRW servers (which will not be using mod group mods) due to obvious problems that can arise just like the boycott issue.”

Payed online races on the SRW servers will not be using Mods from mod groups (That means ALL mod groups). So what are they racing? Default rF content and own scratch build mods/tracks? Don’t make me laugh :)

Of course I think they can still use other games for that part, like Race07 and others, but I don’t think those game devs will be please about it either.

If SRW wants to make a statement, they should start by introducing themself and not use Petros’ MMG name.
This could only hurt MMG also in this matter.

wow! PEOPLE HAVE SHORT MEMORIES IN THIS HOBBY ,Peter from rfactor central done alot of great work for all of us rfactor simmers, I can’t beleive what i’m seeing and hearing from the paranoid skitzafrenic sim community SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

Thanks for all your efforts Pete, I for one remember your great work to the sim community.

If they intend to find workarounds to bring greater attention to and make money from mods based on commercial series then that will probably be the end of modding as we know it. How much do you think codemasters paid bernie eccelstone for the F1 licence? I’m suprised we are allowed to even distribute free F1 mods.

It’s really worrying and seems like a case of greed and ambition about to completely destroy what is really great. Leave sim modding “under the radar” – there are very few people with enough commitment and dedication to learn how to drive these cars anyway – i’m sure they don’t mind looking under the radar to find what they want.

Bringing these mods to greater attention and having the arrogance and naivity to think you can find a legal workaround to involve money in them – in any way, is a sure fire way to make these mods disapear for good.

If that does happen we better hope the codemasters game is a good one because that’s all we’ll have left.

I think that now that SRW plans to charge money for servers running community mods seem to be aborted (if they were real, wich i don’t now), everybody should wait and see what SRW is about.

Maybe the idea of paid races with track comissioners (i think RACE.ME was like this? never tried) making sure that people race instead of playing destruction derby is not insane. Especially if the price and prizes are right. I myself don’t have time for league racing, and casual racing tends to be a bit crap. too much bashing and frustration

Of course, as many have stated, the legal implications are confuse – but let them sort it out. it’s their problem. modding is legal and will always be there

BUT maybe if the modding scene becomes profitable WHILE respectful to IP, companies will realize that there’s a great potential market for sim-racing in pc. And not just at iracing price point, which i find too high.

business is not always bad, guys. shame that these SRW don’t SEEM to do it right..

I love the way Petros Mak joined the boycott to start with and now he switched to being the GREAT AMBASSADOR of this community. creating dialogue between community and SRW. LOVE YOU PETROS!!!

“Discriminating SRW for providing us the same service as the previously listed services is just the same as complaining that Rapidshare, Megaupload and the rest are making money off our work too. Its just not right.”

Oh please, quit the self-righteous rubbish. He was just as much against it as everyone else was to start with.

Yes Petros is often likes this. Contradicts himself constantly and sprouts lies all over the place. If MMG just disappeared to simraceway and I dont think to many people would care.

This is excellent entertainment!

Looking forward to Petros’ answer to this post :)

I read something wrong…
Modding IS NOT LEGAL, modding is tolerated because it’s FREE.

You can try making money with derivated proucts, or merchandising, you will still trying making money with copyrighted materials you don’t own.
Customers will buy something else, but they will come on this web site for the copyrighted contents.

When someone will start making money with it, it will be the beguining of problems for the entire free community modding legal existence.

the efnet#cars League will take a stance of caution for now, but we’re not ready to boycott until we see the EXTENT of what is paid and unpaid service. If they continue to offer all the mods for free download, I don’t see what the problem is.

Still, this statement bothers me:

“Keeping in mind that subscription is for high speed download server access and of course online races on the SRW servers (which will not be using mod group mods) due to obvious problems that can arise just like the boycott issue.”

So no mods at all then? What ISN’T a “mod group mod” ? Maybe nothing but MMG?

But then again, there ARE paid service racing leagues that use mods–what about Race2Play? Their premium service requires money too, and they use all the mods in the community–why hasn’t anyone complained about that?

In the end, our league will go wherever the mods and the community go, because quite frankly we have to keep up.

And who cares what Petros says… MMG doesn’t even make the best F1 mods anyway.

OK I am going to predict it here first!

I bet that the F1 GTRe mod will be released shortly after SRW goes live and will be posted there. I bet that all the free download links will be broken or jammed (on purposed) and SRW will see a large number of people fork over the $10 for premium download abilities

This prediction is based only on my opinion and has no basis what so ever. It is only my opinion and is not based on facts.

felipe:
[quote Petros_Mak]
Petros_Mak
August 7th, 2009 at 18:09
I myself can say that I have not supported the idea since I read the announcement on rFc when it was first announced. I had already stated to quite a few who had asked me about it that I would not be supporting it.
Groups like CTDP, GSMF, Virtua_lm, IDT, MMG and all the rest spend years of their lives producing mods for free, without being paid, to create mods for the community to enjoy for free. Sites like rFcentral take the credit for our hard work through us modding groups advertising ourselves through their site, allowing them to at some point sell themselves out and earn money through our traffic.
Modding purely and simple should always be free. It should never be made pay 2 play or pay 2 download. MAK-Corp and all our departments will not be supported with the knowledge we have of it currently. But do take these notes into consideration.
My personal belief is that we’ll see SRW get up there more then we’ll see it burn. If it indeed is a company that has invested into this, then they have done so with the full knowledge that their project is able to go forth. No company would invest in something without having pre-checked all bounds and gotten all rights sorted.
FSR (Formula Simracing) for example has been running an F1 league since 1999. One that has made a special WC (World Championship) category of which there are only 11 licences. Team manages pay 1000 euro for a licence, of which then teams managers can sell to others or run their team for as long as they like. FSR also makes money through sponsors who become major sponsors and provide prize money for each race of the championship. Some years they didn’t have sponsors, some years they did. In all the league itself is supposedly run by a swedish entity which no one see’s, only knowledge is that the Teams Association made up by the team managers of WC elect a new president each year.
Using their own team names and liveries, sponsor logo’s on the cars that teams look for themselves and sometimes earn money from, since 1999 FSR has not been touched by FOM or any organization. There are ways to get around everything and thats what most people don’t want to understand.
With SRW (Simraceway), I feel that we won’t see them go away as easily as some might think and as a company, they would have already done their homework and if not gotten a licence similar to FSR’s that was claimed to be had in the past, then they would have no doubt found a way to get around licencing issues.
Not to mention, if modders don’t support them, as a company, they would have the money to hire corporate modelers who will model the cars for them. At the end of the day, they’ll still get their project done with or without our support.
The main issue is not that however, its in all you players. Many people will be eager to pay 2 play and argue that it is well worth the money. If those people who are naive and would throw themselves at it say, “Hey this is not right.” then we could preserve modding into the future as a free entity which is what it should be.
I am glad to see teams like CTDP, GSMF and others coming up and standing up for modding’s free rights. Whether we as groups get along with each other or not, we are all driven by the same passion and dedication to the real life series of which we try to represent through our mods, and standing together to ensure that modding remains free is a noble cause. I am happy to join in with MAK-Corp and MMG in not supporting SRW or any venture of this type to come in the future.

tell me what did they promise you ;)

felipe:
[quote Petros_Mak]
Petros_Mak
August 7th, 2009 at 18:09
I myself can say that I have not supported the idea since I read the announcement on rFc when it was first announced. I had already stated to quite a few who had asked me about it that I would not be supporting it.
Groups like CTDP, GSMF, Virtua_lm, IDT, MMG and all the rest spend years of their lives producing mods for free, without being paid, to create mods for the community to enjoy for free. Sites like rFcentral take the credit for our hard work through us modding groups advertising ourselves through their site, allowing them to at some point sell themselves out and earn money through our traffic.
Modding purely and simple should always be free. It should never be made pay 2 play or pay 2 download. MAK-Corp and all our departments will not be supported with the knowledge we have of it currently. But do take these notes into consideration.
My personal belief is that we’ll see SRW get up there more then we’ll see it burn. If it indeed is a company that has invested into this, then they have done so with the full knowledge that their project is able to go forth. No company would invest in something without having pre-checked all bounds and gotten all rights sorted.
FSR (Formula Simracing) for example has been running an F1 league since 1999. One that has made a special WC (World Championship) category of which there are only 11 licences. Team manages pay 1000 euro for a licence, of which then teams managers can sell to others or run their team for as long as they like. FSR also makes money through sponsors who become major sponsors and provide prize money for each race of the championship. Some years they didn’t have sponsors, some years they did. In all the league itself is supposedly run by a swedish entity which no one see’s, only knowledge is that the Teams Association made up by the team managers of WC elect a new president each year.
Using their own team names and liveries, sponsor logo’s on the cars that teams look for themselves and sometimes earn money from, since 1999 FSR has not been touched by FOM or any organization. There are ways to get around everything and thats what most people don’t want to understand.
With SRW (Simraceway), I feel that we won’t see them go away as easily as some might think and as a company, they would have already done their homework and if not gotten a licence similar to FSR’s that was claimed to be had in the past, then they would have no doubt found a way to get around licencing issues.
Not to mention, if modders don’t support them, as a company, they would have the money to hire corporate modelers who will model the cars for them. At the end of the day, they’ll still get their project done with or without our support.
The main issue is not that however, its in all you players. Many people will be eager to pay 2 play and argue that it is well worth the money. If those people who are naive and would throw themselves at it say, “Hey this is not right.” then we could preserve modding into the future as a free entity which is what it should be.
I am glad to see teams like CTDP, GSMF and others coming up and standing up for modding’s free rights. Whether we as groups get along with each other or not, we are all driven by the same passion and dedication to the real life series of which we try to represent through our mods, and standing together to ensure that modding remains free is a noble cause. I am happy to join in with MAK-Corp and MMG in not supporting SRW or any venture of this type to come in the future.
[/quote]
tell me what did they promise you ;)

They apparently explained to MAK how they can make money on their mods legally or semi-legally.

Trust me the minute some one makes a good amount of money on a F1 mod codemasters will pounce! They will come down upon them like the fist of an angry god.

Y E S:
I read something wrong…
Modding IS NOT LEGAL, modding is tolerated because it’s FREE.
You can try making money with derivated proucts, or merchandising, you will still trying making money with copyrighted materials you don’t own.
Customers will buy something else, but they will come on this web site for the copyrighted contents.
When someone will start making money with it, it will be the beguining of problems for the entire free community modding legal existence.

well sorry if i was wrong, tought it was legal if not stated otherwise (which now that i come to think of it, must be standard in license fine-print..)

but i guess my point is, no need to worry that much about the future of modding, i think it’s more unstoppable than piracy.. look at how people mod games that you wouldn’t expect they’ll take the pain to..

Ppl let’s wait.. this is not the four horsemen coming.. even if codemasters goes to war over their f1 license, it’s not like they can come to your house and format your hdd. no sim racer would buy their “racing” games anyway!!!

amunike:

well sorry if i was wrong, tought it was legal if not stated otherwise (which now that i come to think of it, must be standard in license fine-print..)
but i guess my point is, no need to worry that much about the future of modding, i think it’s more unstoppable than piracy.. look at how people mod games that you wouldn’t expect they’ll take the pain to..
Ppl let’s wait.. this is not the four horsemen coming.. even if codemasters goes to war over their f1 license, it’s not like they can come to your house and format your hdd. no sim racer would buy their “racing” games anyway!!!

nope they wont come take your F1 mod away but they will pursue the maker

amunike:

Ppl let’s wait.. this is not the four horsemen coming.. even if codemasters goes to war over their f1 license, it’s not like they can come to your house and format your hdd. no sim racer would buy their “racing” games anyway!!!

True, but the Codies could sue Simraceway and MMG out of existence. Come to think of it, that’s not a bad idea …

[quote Petros_Mak]
Petros_Mak
August 7th, 2009 at 18:09
….. Sites like rFcentral take the credit for our hard work through us modding groups advertising ourselves through their site, allowing them to at some point sell themselves out and earn money through our traffic.

erm… thats a strange thing to say.
Firstly, on rFC its the mod groups themselves that put their mods on there. They do so because thats where most people will go to download your mod. If you want your mod out there for rFactor, then rFC is where you go. Thats obvious.
The knock on effect is that rFC gets the hits on their site and it makes them popular. Surely that is obvious too. But the more popular rFC gets, the more chance people are going to download your mod. So its mutually beneficial.

Don’t be having a pop at rFC getting popular or mod makers works.
If rFC add money generating ads on their site because of their popularity then thats a perk for them and good for them. And who would deny Pete that ? After all he set up the site in the first place and did so for free.

F1Racer:

erm… thats a strange thing to say.
Firstly, on rFC its the mod groups themselves that put their mods on there. They do so because thats where most people will go to download your mod. If you want your mod out there for rFactor, then rFC is where you go. Thats obvious.
The knock on effect is that rFC gets the hits on their site and it makes them popular. Surely that is obvious too. But the more popular rFC gets, the more chance people are going to download your mod. So its mutually beneficial.
Don’t be having a pop at rFC getting popular or mod makers works.
If rFC add money generating ads on their site because of their popularity then thats a perk for them and good for them. And who would deny Pete that ? After all he set up the site in the first place and did so for free.

Yes, but anyway the most played F1 mod last year was F1RFT08, and it was not available on rFC…

I’m encouraged by the concern I’m seeing in this community for intellectual property. In fact, I’d like to suggest something. How about we boycott mods that rip off the IP of real racing series and real brands? I think that will restore the integrity of the community and make all of us feel better. Who’s in? In a show of solidarity with owners of IP that has been infringed by this community, let’s assist them with legal action against the mod creators and sites like this, rFactorCentral, RSC, NoGrip and all others that distribute this product? Who’s with me?

Given the passion with which some are debating the IP issue on this site, I’m expecting there will be many.

Together we can destroy our hobby!

Reality Check:
Together we can destroy our hobby!

yes sure! let’s support SRW and we are pretty much done!

Y E S:

Yes, but anyway the most played F1 mod last year was F1RFT08, and it was not available on rFC…

How do you know what the most played F1 mod was ? What evidence do you have ?

F1Racer:

How do you know what the most played F1 mod was ? What evidence do you have ?

Last year it’s the mod i saw the most in the lobby.
I’m not the only guy to have seen that, lot of people say that about the most played mod last year on all forums about sim racing.
Anyway i agree with you abot the importance of rFC, but it’s not vital. Mods can exist, legal or not, without rFC…
Actually, we all have seen RFT is making a new F1 2009 mod, they have been banned from rFC, but i think this mod will also have a great success and will be massively played.
You know, most people say “it’s not legal”, but lot of them download it anyway and play it. Lot of people love F1 too much to miss a mod like this, with or without a presence on rFC.

Reality Check:
I’m encouraged by the concern I’m seeing in this community for intellectual property. In fact, I’d like to suggest something. How about we boycott mods that rip off the IP of real racing series and real brands? I think that will restore the integrity of the community and make all of us feel better. Who’s in? In a show of solidarity with owners of IP that has been infringed by this community, let’s assist them with legal action against the mod creators and sites like this, rFactorCentral, RSC, NoGrip and all others that distribute this product? Who’s with me?
Given the passion with which some are debating the IP issue on this site, I’m expecting there will be many.
Together we can destroy our hobby!

Whatever they do, the modders are still a part of the community. SRW isn’t. You are mixing hobby and business, members and customers, sharing and service, natural growth and prosperity.
An unknown arrives in your playground and says: “Now you deal with me. This is the new rules”. Would you say “Welcome” or “Talk to my hand” ?
A hobby can not be destroyed as modders and players feel free to play and share.

Sorry for bad English.

sorry double post.

All i see is aload of bla bla bla bla,no facts and when a statement is made u shoot it down straight away,it like a bunch of sheep just following each other,i guess when one breaks away from the bunch the rest will follow,yes i respect the modders but it dosent mean i have to agree with them,this community is dying a slow death,Over the years the number of modders ripping work has risen and the number of peeps who dont care where the mod was ripped from as also grown,which in my book can only lead to one conclusion,the end of true original modding,give it a chance u never know u might save the community from imploding on its self.

Ragster: All i see is aload of bla bla bla bla,no facts and when a statement is made u shoot it down straight away,it like a bunch of sheep just following each other,i guess when one breaks away from the bunch the rest will follow,yes i respect the modders but it dosent mean i have to agree with them,this community is dying a slow death,Over the years the number of modders ripping work has risen and the number of peeps who dont care where the mod was ripped from as also grown,which in my book can only lead to one conclusion,the end of true original modding,give it a chance u never know u might save the community from imploding on its self.

I Agree

Bahhh! Bahh