Simbin Studios To Shut Down *Updated*

Troubling news are coming in from Sweden as Simbin Studios AB, long-time producer of sim racing titles, is apparently bankrupt and going out of business.

The sad news has been confirmed by former Simbin employee AnneSofie W. Madsen on Facebook.

As confirmed by AnneSofie, RaceRoom Racing Experience is planned to “continue in another setting”, the fact that staff has been laid off indicates that the new outfit will undergo some serious restructuring.

Simbin’s long history goes back to the F1 2001 days when the Simbin Development Team started producing professional-grade mods for Image Space Incorporated’s Formula One title. Led by Ian Bell, the group went the professional route shortly after, producing the first GTR title as well as the still-popular GT Legends.

When Bell and most of the core team split to form Blimey Games and, a few years later, Slightly Mad Studios, Simbin continued from their base in Sweden, producing the RACE series and other touring-car themed titles such as the STCC series.

The company seemed to have been in financial troubles several times during the past years according to various news reports, Simbin still seemed to be in good spirits, announcing a ADAC GT Masters title run alongside their RaceRoom Racing Experience and DTM Experience titles.

The studio also employed plenty of household community names such as 6e66o, Com8 and feels3, always giving talented modders the chance to turn their passion into a profession. Hopefully all of Simbin’s employees that have lost their jobs will find a new position within the industry soon!

Update: Simbin’s Jay Ekkel has shared some additional info right here on VirtualR:

The actual story in short is this:

“New studio, new location, new name, (almost) the same team. Be ensured that all development on the project will continue.

More interesting news to follow soon!”

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • Jovica Ilic

    OMG :( very very sad, Simbin games are part of my life for 10 years

  • Hurdy Hurdy

    Wowzer. I will treasure even more my RACE, GTR, GTR2 and GT Legends collection on Steam after hearing this.

  • XXVIIRACING

    Such a shame and I feel really sorry for them but looking at it you can understand why. Raceroom was never going to be a big thing and I would not want to know how much money was spent on that silly joystick they made. Just wish made a modern GTR game :(

  • Paul

    Sad times. I and many others have been with SimBin since GTR and was hoping for the best with R3E, especially as the DTM expansion demonstrated its potential. I hope everyone affected finds employment elsewhere and can carry on doing what they love.

  • Silvio

    The first step to the end was when Blimey team split out from original Simbin’s crew.

  • Patrick McTie

    Crappy news indeed.

  • kantenflimmern

    No… :’C

  • Dieter

    r3e, DTM, WTCC & ADAC GT MASTERS = Now dead = No multiplayer?

  • cubadoo1

    They should of released raceroom as gtr3 and not gone for the bs free to play (obviously not free) route . I would of definetly bought it .

  • Aaron Carlisle

    This is why they should’ve made GTR3… it would’ve sold like mad.

    • Phil Oakley

      Yeah, made it a rival to Assetto Corsa and pCARS. Would have been awesome.

    • Marco Hooghuis

      R3E=GTR3

      Everything you ever saw that was called GTR3 was R3E in the end.

      • Aaron Carlisle

        Except I could’ve bought GTR3 for a one time 60.00 purchase, not get milked to death in R3E. Hell, they even charge you for skins in it!

      • Marco Hooghuis

        What makes you think a different name would’ve made any difference at all?

      • Aaron Carlisle

        Because it would’ve been 60.00 boxed release, not a F2P game that milks you to death. Plus they could’ve had a hay day w/ marketing as the successor to GTR2.

      • Marco Hooghuis

        How do you know it would’ve been a boxed release? Did you work for Simbin at the time?

      • Aaron Carlisle

        Oh I don’t know… maybe because GT Legends, GTR, GTR2, Race07 and Race Pro was? What are you, 5 years old doing the 20 questions routine?

      • Marco Hooghuis

        I’m trying to make you see your own flaw in reasoning. You are assuming what GTR3 would be because of what you want it to be. And when I bring up evidence for my own claim you simply ignore it. But thanks, your ad hominem was noted.

      • Aaron Carlisle

        You’ve brought up zero evidence… what are you smoking? You just keep asking the same “why?” lol Okay, tell me why not, since you’re so masterful and all-knowing

      • Marco Hooghuis

        I brought up the previews didn’t I? You completely ignored those. Those were called GTR3 at the time. And look up the term burden of proof, then you’ll know why I’m not answering the why not. It’s not my responsibility.
        I’m going to give you one last chance to have a meaningful conversation. I have no interest in reading any more name-calling. You have the right to say whatever you want, just like I have the right to say why you’re wrong. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

      • Almacca

        ‘Milked to death’? You’re really not, unless you have no will of your own.

        And skins are like 30c. Hardly a rip-off.

      • Roy Rki

        pcars=GTR3? at least imo

      • Marco Hooghuis

        Nope. Not even close. Look at these:
        http://www.virtualr.net/gtr3-lots-of-p45-competizione-previews
        http://www.virtualr.net/gtr3-first-zonda-r-in-game-previews

        All of this was named GTR3 and ended up with exactly the same skins in R3E. Moreover, SMS are a completely different bunch of people who split up looong before the first ‘GTR3′ news.

  • Roy Rki

    They should re-unite with SMS to become the best sim dev on the market.

  • Paul Thompson

    Quote AnneSofie W. Madsen: “R3E is not cancelled. It will continue in another setting!”

  • kenpat .

    Sad news indeed. Got to feel for them and their families.

    • Jaimy Mewe

      It`s a job, noone died…

  • Bakkster

    Is there confirmation beyond the random FB posting from an employee?

  • Marco Hooghuis

    This is bad, like really bad. I own most Simbin titles and it was my first experience with simracing altogether.
    I hope DTM 2014 and ADAC GT Masters will still be released.

  • Jay Ekkel

    The actual story in short is this:

    “New studio, new location, new name, (almost) the same team. Be ensured that all development on the project will continue.

    More interesting news to follow soon!”

    We had hoped we could announce the news and the future plans ourselves, but the first half of news got out already. So some patience required as more news will come soon.

    • MontoyaVR

      Thanks Jay, story has been updated accordingly.

      • Jay Ekkel

        thanks!

    • Dinca Andrei

      Jeez,i almost had a panic atack…like what? how? when?for real?…Jeez..

      • feels3

        same here ;)

    • Joco Gorenc

      You’d be rich if you made GTR3 with next-gen engine and FIA licence… Super GTR2 fanboy speaking ;)

      • Professional Operator

        FIA license is not needed. Modern GT cars are GT3 cars and we have them already in several sims and mods.

        What would be cool is a GTR3 with GT1 cars.

    • Cnyautofreak

      I thoroughly enjoy the Race 07 GT-E/Race On/ 900 different expansions through steam ;-) glad to see the crew of people will stay the same, hopefully the vision isnt altered to much,and the “feel of simbin” still shines through in the new product/company. Good luck in setting up and kickstarting this new operation.

    • Sinister Kid

      Will we still have access to RRE and its content or will all the servers be switched off until the new company is established?

      • Jay Ekkel

        servers will keep on spinning

      • RKipker

        Excellent News Jay, we wish you guys the best, and thanks for updating us here.

    • Tom Maddy

      That means conversions from simbin games are legal with cd check or do you have the same approach to the conversions?= everything is still illegal even that the company doesnt exist?

      • Birddogg66

        Oh is that what your really worried about more than a group of peoples well being?

      • Jay Ekkel

        Yes that will also stay the same, the old games, their IP’s and its content still belong to our group.

      • Tom Maddy

        ok, thanks.
        Best wishes
        Tom.

    • Birddogg66

      Wish all of you the best in what future endeavors you may encounter.

    • AdamJonas

      I hope that this new studio means you are turning back to the REAL sim way. And, I hope, your ‘new’ motto will be the old one, which SimBin used to had in the past, during GTL, GTR 1&2: GET REAL! Again! Please!

  • Eric S

    Change the title of the story please

  • Paul Thompson

    I think you may find that this will only take R3E to a higher SIM level, with new content and new tracks, and to make it more of a SIM :D I suspect reading between the lines, some of the people wanted an out and out sim, and others wanted a more general sim/game experience. To me it reads more like a marketing strategy but one for the better :D Although I’m prob 100% wrong and will burn in hell.

    • Ma Ed

      One can only hope

  • Sinister Kid

    I’m gutted for Simbin and I’m gutted for myself after buying all their content for RRE in the summer sale! I have all Simbin’s back catalogue and they’ve given me years of enjoyment :( Hope the new company honour these purchases in the future development :)

    Was really looking forward to the ADAC championship and loved the DTM add on.

  • Ricoo

    Very sad news. I wish the best for the new structure.

  • Professional Operator

    Sad news but I’m not impressed the business model they choose for R3E was a marketing suicide.

    • Nicolas Grignon

      true indeed…

  • Jim. C

    Bad news indeed. Leaving R3E to one side, the closure of Simbin is a massive loss for the sim racing scene. I hope the new team can continue the same ethos that made Simbin titles very popular.

    Jay Ekkel’s words are reassuring as I feel R3E is starting to get into its stride. DTM Experience multiplayer alpha is so much fun and I am very excited for the upcoming ADAC GT and WTCC content (if it’s still happening). It would be a shame for things to take a turn for the worse now.

  • Nicolas Grignon

    if Simbin goes down (I hope not as I like RRE and DTM)… it means that Genius sound guru Antony Monteil will be up for a new job… and I foresee A LOT of parties that could be interested ( Polyphony Digital – ATM they openly look for sound engineers – Kunos, SMS, etc…), this guys started the sound revolution in our beloved simulators, I can’t imagine he would not find a new job in seconds.

    • RKipker

      This is BAD News, R3E is a good game, could be so much more. I hope they somehow pull this out.

      • Marco Hooghuis

        I wouldn’t say R3E is good, but they can surely get a lot more out of it than they do now. I mean, look at the car lineup. This isn’t just your standard field of GT3’s.

  • Ma Ed

    God Damnit , the problem is the business side of things are run by suits , they wanted a free to play model to maximize profit thinking they could make a f2p game with the best racing dev out there and that would work.

    They all want the next f***ing candy crush. This would have never happened if Simbin would have stuck to what they do/did before,
    I am super upset cause I wrote them off for a year ( did not like the pricing model ) only to recently come back to the game and being literally obsesse with it.

    I tough Simbin the legend was back, this feels like a punch in the guts.

  • Bekim Dine

    if they had just made what people want this wouldn’t of happened. Fans expected GTR3. They announced it, even had a website showing off the sounds…then no news about it, instead a free to play RRE. A Retail GTR3 would have sold like hotcakes. Sad news :(

    • EZehnder

      Not to mention they still would have undercut Assetto Corsa and Project CARS by several months. Would have been timed very well.

  • Patrik Marek

    very sad news :-/ hope that all the employees find a new job soon,

  • Rantam

    I love Simbin sims. If that update from Jay Ekkel is correct then that means that they’re still there somehow, even under a different name. So it may not be as bad as it looks…

    Br

    • melanieuk1

      Some of the simbin staff are often on the kunos forums, hope the new team whatever they call themselves license the assetto corsa engine, and create something new, and ISI employ some of the staff, that couldn’t be saved,looking at the ISI website, you know that ISI appreciates the work simbin has done using their ISImotor engine throughout the years, it would be a no brainer for them.

  • Ma Ed

    the problem is the business side of things are run by suits , they wanted a free to play model to maximize profit thinking they could make a f2p game with the best racing dev out there and that would work.

    They all want the next crap candy crush hit. This would have never happened if Simbin would have stuck to what they do/did before,
    I am super upset cause I wrote them off for a year only to recently come back to the game and being literally obsessed with it. Hopefully some people learn from this and don’t try to apply this to all their games ( wink wink EA ).

    I tough Simbin the legend was back, this feels like a punch in the guts.

    The optimistic in me would like to think that this most likely means good news in the long run.

    But just the fact that the name Simbin is gone is enough to make me cringe, this dev gave us the best in sim racing for years and now their name is no longer going to appear when I launch the game , that is what bothers me the most

  • Marcos Sanz

    A company named Seanbean couldn’t have a distinct destiny than to die :p . My best wishes to the new company, I hope they continue releasing so awesome titles!

  • GamingCanuck

    I really wish they would have completed GTR3 instead of going the P2P route with R3E, it may not have helped in this situation but I definitely think it would have been a lot more popular than R3E.

  • Birddogg66

    Another question is we know KW suspension will survive but what will happen with the RaceRoom franchises?

  • http://s1.zetaboards.com/SimSkinsByDen/index/ PetrolheadDen

    Too bad but I can’t say it’s much of a surprise as they’ve seemed to be stuck in a rut for quite some time now.

  • http://www.gtlw.co.uk/ Lúcio Marques

    It has been said that this could be seen coming and, yes, it was kind of predictable. Yet it still feels so hard to believe when reading this piece. :-( Really sad news.

    It may mean very little to those that got hooked to this hobbie in most recent years but, for geezers like me that have followed their history from the very beggining as SBDT, and through every single one of SIMBIN’s commercial sim-racing game titles, this kind of feels like watching a monument being demolished. :-/

    In that regard, for me SIMBIN represented perhaps the last game-dev company that I (still) had (wishfull) hopes of being capable to produce and release titles in that good old tradition (now gone) of quality content that accurately recreats reknowned real life racing series, as it should be for a “RACING SIMULATION” game.
    With that I also mean featuring all (if not most) of the exclusive racecars (plus liveries, teams, drivers, brands and sponsors) and the tracks represented in respective calendar, as well as the correct point system schemes, rules and penalties, and the always important game-features to acommodate all that, for online and offline racing (plus modding support)… right out of the box.
    That is, as older titles, and especially SIMBIN sim-racing titles, became popular for in the past.

    We can all discuss and bring explanations why it’s no longer so.
    We can also defend, yell, fanboy-band, bash or troll everything around and about PCars, AC, RF2 and whatever most recent stuff is the trend these days but, the sad truth is this (fact)…. there isn’t a single sim-racing game developper around (perhaps with the exception of Reiza?) interested and/or capable of doing it these days.
    Not anymore, it seems.

    Great eye candy, smart teasers and continuous hype pumped through social networking, through biased friends, or constant news, do not make up for that lost essence in the genre.
    And not even modders, as capable and as many as we are (are we still?), can ever make up for such absense without the means.

    Thank you SIMBIN for all you’ve done for the community.
    Not just for the super nice sim-racing titles through the years (which shaped new users in the hobby, and leagues) or for the continuous online servers support for older titles (which has been a blessing).
    It’s also for your support to mod-teams (you know who you are), and I’m sure I’m not alone when I say this.

    Hopefully something good can happen after this (reading the suspense news from Jay Ekkel?!). :-)
    Best of luck to all of you guys and gals that have been at the SIMBIN, temporarily or since ever, and no matter if you’re involved in “the next chapter to happen” or not.
    Wishing you all the best.

    • Philip Antonia

      Lucio I totally agree, Simbin took me away from F1/Indycar Sims when they made the FIA GT2002 mod for F1 99/02 and I’ve owned every Sim since until R3E!! I’ve got R3E, but it concerned me as this type of micro transaction model puts me off as I tend to miss out on bits I’d like because I have watch what I’m spending and I was worried that this approach was wrong for Simbin!!

      Hopefully though they will stay on track (pun intended) and continue to develop race sims for many years to come :-).

    • Jim. C

      Couldn’t agree more.

  • noroardanto

    Relieving news from Jay as I really like where RRRE progressing lately. You are one of the best team out there, I’m sure universe will not let you guys disappear from the racesim world. Wish you all the best.

  • Glenn Briden

    Wow so Sad Simbin is one of the reasons I am still into Sim Racing today.

    There work in F1-2000 / 2001 was ground breaking.

    I am a Founder and still admin of a GT Legends league going in it’s 17th Season.

    Hopefully the Essence of Simbin continues and I wish everyone the best of luck in there future endeavors.

  • GamerMuscle

    Educated guess here

    1) Investors want to jump on the “free to play micro transaction” train and offer cash and direct/buy a studio for investment purposes.

    2) Investors find out they are to late to the party and that the product was not really suited to the free to play structure

    3) Developer has talent and always made good sim games regardless so has a team and a product with value even though its not suited to the direction investors wanted

    4) Investors want out because they wont hit there % profit in time frame they want

    5) Developers and people that actually care about the product directly not jus in terms of % profits, take control

    6) Every one ends up with the simulator they wanted in the first place as simbin focus on what they do best , having a moderately small team and catering to the sim market.

    • Philip Antonia

      I truly hope so GamerMuscle :-).

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/OldAgedGamer Steve Bird

      After buying all the RRE content I feel a bit mugged off if I’m to be honest. The promise of multiplayer has not come along in time to save them. I also purchased DTM Experience and have enjoyed several online fights in the MP alpha but I feel that RRE and multiplayer would have been a winner.

  • Ready

    I think that simbin will fuse with ISI.

    • Kris Baxter

      Here’s hoping, that would be a good marriage methinks.

    • Marcel

      How awesome it could be if they make their WTCC, GT Masters and DTM with the Assetto Corsa engine.

      • Giovanni Scala

        ISI with Kunos engine? Don’t think so :-)

      • Marcel

        No, i mean Simbin making something with Kunos engine ;-)

      • Giovanni Scala

        Sound better now :-)

    • David Hughes

      -

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/OldAgedGamer Steve Bird

      Wow, now that would be a major bonus.

    • http://www.forzaminardi.com/ FilipeMn

      For the game style, they should join to Kunos. :)

  • FormulaLes

    I could never get into SimBin games. For me, being relatively new to PC sim racing I always got confused about what game / expansion pack was what, and what the differences were. I actually bought some SimBin bundle last year, I couldn’t tell you which one, and it installed a multitude of expansions in Steam, which I didn’t have the patience to understand the differences of. In my mind the expansion approach isn’t the best approach to attract new people. For me this is one of the reasons why I never bothered to give SimBin products a solid go. Another other reason was that RACE Pro on Xbox360 felt kind of unfinished, and I found that the force feedback on the Xbox360 wheel would sometimes not work with the game. The final reason was I couldn’t really understand the advantages of the SimBin products over rFactor, when they are both running off the same engine.

    • MiniFan

      I’m surprised you don’t have the patience to understand Simbin titles but apparently do have the patience for rFactor.

      The advantage of the older Simbin titles (GTR through the RACE series) is they are a complete package straight out of the box, rather than a mod platform. No hunting for tracks and mods of varying quality. You get all the cars and tracks from a licensed series and the rules too – eg reversed grid in WTCC races. Everyone has a different experience of the AI but in my experience the Simbin AI works far better. In the early days online racing is also simpler, but after many years and many mods today online racing is as complicated as rF.

      Of course, if the racing series Simbin offers do not appeal (say you are an F1 or NASCAR fan) then they won’t be for you.

      The other advantage is the polish Simbin usually apply to thei ISI based titles. The quality of car and track modelling, the better UI, the addition of rain and animated driver arms, and the addition in some of their titles of animated pitcrew and livetrack.

      I can understand that buying everything in a bundle could be confusing. Expansion packs were really designed for existing owners of a game. In the old days when a developer brought out the next year of a championship (e.g. F1-2001, F1-2002, NASCAR 2002, NASCAR 2003) you had to buy the whole game again for full price even though many things were the same as in last years game. The idea of an expansion pack is you just buy the new stuff at a reduced price.

      • NitroStar

        I absolutely enjoy all the Older Simbin titles. GTR 2 and Race 07 Series just simply works and is complete as you stated above. I have bought all the expansions for just a little bit of green back and then always use the same old Race 07 game to launch and all the expansions are there in the game. This is the SIMPLEST of upgrades a game can have. Just put the Race 07 game in your Steam “Favorites” and all the expansions stay in your “All Games” list. Force Feedback, graphics, tracks, cars, and AI cars, etc just work and work great. Oh, and if you like mods, then there are plenty of them also, but if not, the games themselves are complete.

      • slab

        Also, launching from any of the expansions will launch race 07 anyway

    • https://sites.google.com/site/myvracelog/project-cars/interesting-opportunity-by-ian-bell/About myvracelog

      what is not to understand or be confused about… Race the series is basically a polished version of the gmotor engine that is user friendly.

  • Petros Dialektakis

    I was afraid that something like this would happen. Simracing just fills a niche in the gaming industry. And the way I see it, a strategy like F2P would be even more risky and possibly was/is the wrong choice for a game like R3E and such a small company like Simbin Studios. I think this kind of selling strategies only work with big game developers.

    I really hope everybody at Simbin will find a new start in the new company or somewhere else. They definitely deserve it. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

    • Babis Rataplan

      I cant agree more, Καλο θα ηταν να ειναι Offline to , απο εκει και περα τοσα χρονια και απο τι φενεται ουτε Online δεν θα πεξουμε κριμα γιατι ειναι απο τα αγαπημενα μου sims.

    • SteinarPladsen

      GTR was the first, then there came GTR2 and GT Legends (same platform),
      Next was the Race07 series (NOT “RACE”!), which was a bit confusing
      because the strong lisensing. GTR Evo was one of the add-ons and the
      latest was the Incjection (all add-ons can be recognized by the small
      box pic up-right of the boxes)
      – The todays platform R3E with a lot
      of content, and add-ons like the DTM and coming GT Masters and WTCC …
      For me the Simbin has always been the more realistic sims. And for you
      that have not tested any content in R3E – have not experienced the R3E
      yet.
      – R3E is safe because the owner is Raceroom Ent. AG.

  • Paul Pantel

    Very sad news guys, I just pray that the staff layed off will find another job, or get a good package.

  • Markus Ott

    While almost all comments show a depression, the statement about the situation for me reads more like SIMBIN wants to free themselves from some poor decisions in the past and start a new company together. As they said almost the same team will stay together and they keep on working on their projects. Quite clever with the upcoming DTM and GT Masters expensions, they should be money makers.

    • David Hughes

      VirtualR = the tabloid of Sim Racing

    • Peter Koch

      Feels like good news to me.

    • David Hughes

      I’ll post this again as it mysteriously disappeared, I am sure VirtualR doesn’t intentionally mean to censor posts which are within the posting rules:

      VirtualR – the tabloid of Sim Racing News.

      • F1Racer

        So you think it’s ok to look to bring down the credibility of the site with comments like that ? Maybe the rules need updating.

        Rather than just post a comment like that and expect that it should be ok, perhaps you can expand on what you mean by your comment ? Don’t just say something like that without an explanation.

      • David Hughes

        Rushing to post stories which are sensationalist but not particularly accurate and based on little to no credible information seems pretty tabloid to me, hence the comment.

        The only thing bringing down the credibility of the site is your deleting of a comment that at least 6 other people voted up.

        *Waits for delete/ban.

      • F1Racer

        Oh the drama!

        So why could you not find it within yourself to write, what is merely your own opinion, in a way that is not so blatantly derogatory ?
        You seem to have a very self-important view of things in that it seems that you think you get to decide what does and doesn’t affect the site’s credibility. First it was this article (one of nearly 8,000 that VR has posted over the years) and now my deletion of your comment. Getting a bit self-important there aren’t we ? The deletion of your petty post brings the whole site disrepute ? :)
        Well FYI, my deleting your comment has pretty much no effect on anything except your own feelings.
        I don’t care how many people (probably mainly Guests) voted it up. That is of little consequence to me if the content of the post is questionable.
        How derogatory to this site does a comment have to be before I stop letting it slide ? You think I’d be looking after the interests of this blog if I let comments like that slide?
        I think it would set a bad precedent and I’m not about to do that.
        If you want to express an opinion like that then you`ll just have to learn to do it in a way that isn’t so blunt otherwise it just comes across as trolling. Constructive criticism always pays.

        Oh and by the way if my deleting your post is ‘the only thing bringing down the credibility of this site’ (emphasis on ‘the only thing’) then that means the content of the article itself has not done that. That would in turn mean that your comment is a nonsense and was rightly removed.

        Your last post has (up to now) 3 guest votes. My mere mention of it will increase that (thank me later).
        Guests because either people are too afraid to use their own names or because they are not members here. Either way it makes them irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. Just so you know.

      • David Hughes

        “New studio, new location, new name,

        *** (almost) the same team.***

        *** Be ensured that all development on the project will continue.*** ”

        I’ve tried to highlight the important bits of the story, in case you miss them again.

        THIS is the story, but you have massively prioritised the ex-employees sensationalist and negative version of Simbin ‘apparently bankrupt and going out of business’ – which may be technically correct but a long way away from the quote above, which a top guy at Simbin actually told you himself but you have only included at the end of the article under ‘additional information’..!

        I know all the first part of the article was already written by the time Ekkel replied – but this illustrates the fact that you clearly rushed into posting it without checking any facts and so are left with a headline and story which is pretty misleading. As a news site with an impressively large audience you should feel some responsibility to base things on facts – not just the first thing a potentially disgruntled ex-employee claims on facebook.

        This kind of reporting doesn’t damage the sites credibility – it just reinforces it’s position alongside other tabloid news sites.

      • The Dark

        my god what an ass you are mr. Hughes. i dont know why you are so snarky about this but what you just said there was a load of hot air over nothing. vr dont have time machine and from what i read the article was pretty much accurate even before jay ekkel replied. you are just being finiky for the sake of it. clearly some of the information was not available at the time but unless you have a time machine or a crystal ball, how can someone know this?
        at least it was updated later to the satisfaction of most people. what a chip you have on your shoulders.

      • melanieuk1

        There’s a particular handful of readers, that have come from another site, thinking they have the right to come here complain about how rob runs his own blogsite, and think they have to comment on everything they feel is wrong about this site, just an observation of who is doing it.

      • F1Racer

        Yes it seems that way. I wouldn’t mind if they found something interesting and intellectual to debate about. Something to stimulate the mind. But alas they have their level and it’s hard for me to stay down there for too long.

      • Birddogg66

        If I have an inkling of what other site you may be referring to I think the site is perfectly fine with plenty of interesting and informative members. I would prefer it not be an Us and Them discussion. However if individuals do come here with the only intent to cause problems I ask what satisfaction do they think they are getting from doing so?
        The topic of this discussion in this thread while we may want to point to one reason or another if I may add one I’ll ad separatism as a reason as a drag on the whole Sim Race Industry.

      • F1Racer

        oh thanks Dark. Saved me a reply :) I`ll just echo what you said.

      • MontoyaVR

        Sensationalistic? How exactly? I cited a source, even linked it and if you paid attention you would have seen that nobody denies that the base of what this story is about is true.

        Simbin Studios AB as a company is apparently going under, which is all the story states.

        When Jay provided additional context I immediately added that part to the story, updated the headline and posted the update on Twitter as well.

        What more could you possibly want?

    • TC

      They actually said not so long ago that latest content were the best they released to R3R, because they were not so attached to do “comercial” stuff like they did in the beggining (corner markers, lack of realism options, arcade handling)…i buyed the Audi Car and you can see they are telling the truth.

  • Pablo Coronel

    Like other says, the first thing comes to mind is “why they didn’t make GTR3 instead of ´x sim´?”. IMO

    • Marco Hooghuis

      Because R3E=GTR3
      Will you guys ever learn?

      • Philip Antonia

        But it isn’t is it!! GTR2 was based on a Full series with night/day racing, 24hr racing, weather and full race meetings etc!! R3E is an online hot lapping game with differing types of cars, many fictional!! That’s not really what fans of GTR/2 were hoping for really!!

      • Marco Hooghuis

        I can prove it to you:
        http://www.virtualr.net/gtr3-lots-of-p45-competizione-previews
        http://www.virtualr.net/gtr3-first-zonda-r-in-game-previews

        All of these previews were called GTR3 and ended up exactly as R3E content. Even the skins are exactly the same.

      • Pablo Coronel

        I get your point, but if you sell me as GTR3 i buy without doubt, but if you sell me X SIM, i will buy AC or RF2.

      • Marco Hooghuis

        I’m not sure what you mean by that? Do you mean that because it’s named differently you would buy something else instead? I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

      • Pablo Coronel

        Yes, i want to mean that, anyone will buy GTR3, but not all will buy X SIM, i mention AC and RF2 because you have a promoted legacy of those, R3E, as far as i know, is not sell as the GTR3.

      • Kris Baxter

        I think the point you mean is that we know what GTR1 and GTR2 are, we understand the format and enjoy the format. We were led to believe that GTR3 was coming out, assuming that format would be similar or an evolution of GTR2, instead we get R3E which is nothing like GTR games, and as far as I can tell, is inferior in nearly every aspect, unless you enjoy hotlapping.
        I don’t, so I have not bought any cars or tracks as I have no reference point for the AI. If they’d just done a modern GTR, they would have made more money I think.
        Orrrrrrrr, they know that someone somewhere is always working on a legends mod, why not do that again? but without the stupid points system, just give an open game with all the historic cars we can get, and the physics of PnG.

      • Pablo Coronel

        I mean, if you say “GTR3″ i throw my money in your face, but if you say “R3E” i will say “Cool story bro”

      • SteinarPladsen

        Why this discussion of GTR3???
        – GTR/ GTR2 / Race07 / R3E, these are the Simbin series. All had their add-ons. Raceroom Racing Experience (R3E) is really “the sim” at the moment, and for me the most realistic there is. Even better that AS i will absolutely say. Remember they are using the original DTM/GT Masters data and even the drivers are helping in :-)

      • Kris Baxter

        Because we were led to believe that GTR3 was coming, instead we got R3E. Can i jump in and do a GT season? No!
        Therein lies the disappointment. The free content in R3E is not enough to make me part with my money. So I’m just saying, if they had done GTR3, perhaps they might have more successful, perhaps not.

      • SteinarPladsen

        People have not yet understood the new business platform, and that is Simbins fault because the press/information lack. R3E has very limited free content, and this is becuase there is very expansive lisensing going on. This is an acurate and really more advanced sim because of lot of real-data use in the production.
        – And this is why the R3E has been expensive to make, and it actually uses the real data from those the real Series made from. You can also see this coop from the RR Logo on the actual cars (DTM/GT Masters/WTCC). The stretch for making the very best simulator is also the reason why now Simbin is down (Capture 11 like..). But R3E is owned by Raceroom, so not to worry.
        – I guess the R3E would be too expansive for us to pay for without the new model. But you can choose to buy a lot of intereseting cars and tracks, or whole complete series with tracks Iike the DTM. That is that’s ok for me because I want it to be as real as possibly, instead of cheap and fast made free add-ons. So R3E is a way like the great an longliving Race07 with complete Add-Ons. We also bougth them all! Afcouse also had som luck with mods.
        – So let us continue to support them all, AC/R3E and others. For me as a longtime Simbin racer, I have hours in Race07, but the last 2 years, I have been testing and beta-testing R3E which runned smoothly in MP from the start :-).
        – So let us remember that we should support the developers and the sims we like. And those we do not support – we do not need to talke down. They are all made to get the best there is for us simracers, and some of them are ment to different markets.

      • Pablo Coronel

        no no, R3E isn’t GTR3, GTR3 is GTR3

      • Marco Hooghuis
      • SteinarPladsen

        There is no GTR3 Pablo

    • Nicolas Grignon

      because the rights for the the cars (Porshe and ferrari are just off limits), the official liveries and all the circuits would be just too much for Simbin… Licencing in a game today is hell!

      • Birddogg66

        Licensing is almost voodoo on the Sim Race Industry and it’s dragging it down I am sure Simbin is not the only developer that has had it’s share of financial tests

  • Wurnman

    I like RR and the GTR series games, pity this had to happen

  • http://batman-news.com Leeman

    Well, this is a shame. But, hopefully, they will continue to develop racing titles. Specifically, I’m very interested in the ADAC series they announced that was due to release this fall. I’ve invested a small fortune in R3E but I’m less interested in that than I am their DTM series and the ADAC series.

    • RKipker

      Yeah, and what about the Free upgrade to DTM 2014…. for season pass holders.

    • SteinarPladsen

      R3E is the platform, where you add-on the DTM, Adac GT Masters and more ;-)

      • http://batman-news.com Leeman

        Yes, that’s right. But, R3E doesn’t offer much of a game at this point in its development, that’s why I enjoy DTM and will likely buy the ADAC add-on as well.

  • mfcfan

    The talent is there. I always wondered why they couldn’t go Reiza route. Its proven model and it works.

    • RichardHessels

      Depends how many “mouths” you have to feed…

  • Danny Oliveira

    No game is as fun as GTR still is. :) Hope they get their shizzles on the right direction. Respect!

    • http://s1.zetaboards.com/SimSkinsByDen/index/ PetrolheadDen

      Well, there is GT Legends. ;)

    • Arie Beuker, de

      I only know GTR evo, is that the same?
      I know in that one, the chatfunction in the racelist is nonexistent and that is crappy because you cannot find friends there if you need to.

      • JuergenBY

        GTR Evo is an AddOn of Race07

      • Ma Ed

        Nope it’s stand alone

      • JuergenBY

        From Steam Shop: “GTR Evolution Expansion Pack for RACE 07″… I know, lot of people think, it`s standalone, but it isnt ;-)

      • Arie Beuker, de

        I can confirm the Race07 connection, i have seen that yes.

      • SteinarPladsen

        Race07; there is lots of add-ons (www.simbin.se/games), and they are all awailable for download at Steam for a great price! WTCC, STCC, RaceON, GTR Evo (with the Nordshleife etc) and much more :-)

  • TC

    I really hope they follow the path that they open doing DTM Experience and future ADAC series, this is what they do best: recreate a full competition with all the cars and tracks. GT today are not especially interest, and then are the expensive righst…but there’re plenty of series they can do and, i suppose, their rights aren’t that hard to get.

  • Ioannis

    When the first GTR came out the only avaliable language was German, I was lucky at that time to be on a trip in Austria so i buy it, then i buy the international version.. now i own the Steam version as well. The AI, live track and weather, MOTEC telemetry were unparallel ten years ago. Together with my Logitech Momo wheel we had some great time and learn so much about setups.
    Call me anachronistic but i hate the “Free2Race” model in RaceRoom.
    Just make the godamn GTR3 and let us diehards die happy.

    • Philip Antonia

      Ditto loannis, I bought GTR from Amazon.de as it was not being released in the uk until much later and I bought every simbin title since. R3E was a big disappointment, not because it was a bad sim, but because it wasn’t “back to our roots” as they described it :-(. I truly hope they can salvage a good sim from what they’ve started. I’m guessing that’s their plan with ADAC GT Masters and DTM!!

      • SteinarPladsen

        R3E (Raceroom Racing Experience) is the platform, where you can add tracks, cars and series. Some of the series/add-ons are DTM-Experience, ADAC GT Masters and coming WTCC.

    • Professional Operator

      You are not anachronistic at all, Free2Play model is the main reason why they are failing.

      Free2Play works great on RPG’s but It will NEVER works in niche markets like simracing. The simracer is a different animal and he HATES limitations. Do not try to charge money just for a single livery for a car, it’s not going to work.

      If developers can’t deliver a finished product in time the only business model is to charge for an alpha/beta/early access/whatever they call it version and constantly update the game for FREE, at least until 1.0.
      ISI SMS and Kunos are doing this.

  • https://sites.google.com/site/myvracelog/project-cars/interesting-opportunity-by-ian-bell/About myvracelog

    the last sentences are the most important… simbin has been a huge part of my own personal enjoyment of this hobby. I thanked them by purchasing almost all there titles even the overlapping ones. there pricing has always been very fair and I never felt ripped of or like i got a unfinished product.

    I wish you the very best success in future endeavors!

  • Franklin Silva

    I know many may should think this is a stupid idea, but it would be interesting for the smaller producers to produce more and better together, example, Reiza and SimBin, both could bring lots of cool stuff. Or could develop paid mods for Assetto Corsa.

    • melanieuk1

      Never going to happen, I’m sure one maybe more of the reiza staff use to work for simbin.

  • Hugo Stiglitz

    well i really hope Polyphony Digital steals their head audio engineers. R3E still has some of the best car sounds in the business

    • Keith Horner Jr

      Then the game would at least sound good while being terrible at everything else.

  • Captain Stabby

    It’s a shame to see them close the doors, but it’s not surprising Simbin’s peak was GTR2. After Blimey was formed, Simbin’s Race series was good, but offered less features than GTR2.

    Another issue they have is very poor communication with what is a niche market. Let’s take GTR3 for example, we got an announcement and a teaser page which is still live http://gtr3.com/ , then nothing just dead silence, it was up to the community to work out that R3E was it’s replacement. Who remembers the Lizard engine, What happened with that?

    If Simbin do reform and I hope they do, they need to change their approach and engage the community better, cause it’s the community that is the ones buying the games.

    • pez2k

      I was under the impression that R3E was on the Lizard engine, as was DTM Experience.

    • SteinarPladsen

      Can’t we just forget about GTR3!? There is no GTR3, maybee there was planned. But now we do have the R3E, which for me is the best that has happened.

  • F1Racer

    Well this is sad news but it sort of feels like we are also about to get a phoenix from the fire situation later on down the line.
    My history with Simbin has been all positive. I was grateful and honoured that I got to render out the box cover art for GTR and it was quite a moment to see that when it hit the store shelves. A great sim to this day and it surely did set a new benchmark. The GT Legends came and did the same again using more historical cars. That became a cult classic and, I think, always underrated.
    GTR2 comes out and to this day I am still banging in laps on that thing. Day/night cycle, weather, animated pit stops etc etc. Pure sim. (I am aware of the different people that were there at the time)
    Power and Glory 3 mod further enhanced it and I have a separate install of GTR2 just for that mod which I still use as much as HistorX mod even though they are very different.
    GTR Evo follows that and gives us a little more realistic grip levels which they felt it needed. RACE07 to me is just a joy, especially with the Retro Pack (although I do have all the add-ons for it). Powersliding that Corvette around turn 1 at Poznan and throughout the lap is some good fun.

    It would have been great to see a full GTR3 sim with the full GT1/GT3 series like it’s predecessors had but maybe that was not possible for whatever reason.
    RRRE isn’t my cup of tea in terms of how it’s structured but wow does that thing have some amazing sounds, especially on that Audi 90.

    I wish them contunued success in their new guise and hope they go on to even greater things.

    • SteinarPladsen

      Agree with much here :-) I really love the Simbin, and the GTR was great found at the time. For me GTR2 was not that great, but on the other hand – the Race07 series has really been something and longtime living – and still are! Realistic driving, moddable and lot of fun! Unneccessary and rare were those strange drops of the Race07 add-ons which no of us really understood before later. There was no a good visible connection – and lots of people are still misunderstanding the Race07 series.

      This is also bring us back to Simbin’s lack of communication with press and us simracers. Afcourse and luckely, Jay Ekkel has really been here a lot, and sorted som these needs of communication and understanding. But these matters should have been done earlier and continously. Simbin have had personell to communicate, but we have not seen those marketing people here or – most importante, communication with the different forums like ISR/SP and more.

      R3E – I have to say I’m really satisfied!! And this new business model is all ok. Because this give us high-quality all the way, and I prefer this comparing all the puzzle and those bad add-ons. Afcourse there is great modders and teams like MAK Corp.

      The new model works fine for me, and I have bough several tracks and cars, and afcourse the DTM-Experience add-on. Now there is new Add-ons coming like GT-Masters with more :-) HIGH QUALITY and in my eyes, no doubt that this is the most realistic “game-simulator” today.
      – Maybe just a comment about the FREE download; I think it should have been a little more content (track/s) so people just not run away from the 2 fake tracs which does give the impression that the game deserves.

  • Joseph Curwen

    It is a very harsh reality; I am deeply sorry.

    GT Legends was the simulator that introduced me to the world of racing simulation. I wish the best of luck to the team members in their new personal projects.

    • Birddogg66

      GT Legends was the first true Road Racing Simulation I engaged myself into before thar was a few years of just the Nascar Thunder titles by ISI

  • pastor_tedhaggard

    will never forget the first time i played GTR 2002 mod for F1 challenge, and thought that simracing could not get any better than this. And then GTR came along.

    • F1Racer

      Good old times :) The mod that give rise to all that was to follow. They sure have taken us on a helluva journey.

      • Birddogg66

        Maybe it’s a chance for these guys to take a deep breath of fresh air and find new focus and new motivation. However the fact that this is happening in the first place needs to set examples for overall cost of development and balancing that against the profit margins. Sim Racing Games need to be stronger as an advertisement tool with trade-offs for licensing content. Sim Racing is a great alternative to the typical FPS and the potential problems that may arise for companies to consider backing violent video games. Racing and driving games are a perfect place for these companies to be.

  • Guest

    Feel the nostalgy, feel the immersion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4EdwXYrSHY

  • Chris Wright

    I think what this sad news confirms to us is that our small niche of sim racing is perhaps not capable of sustaining the number of developers currently servicing it. It is, though, very pleasing that the majority of the SimBin team will be back with us in a new context. Even though I have almost all the DLC content for RRE, I still hope they will consider a return to a more package based business model. A good example of that is how the Rise of Flight WW1 combat sim has created bundles of DLC on Steam. All that micro purchase and pseudo currency stuff on RRE just complicates things and, I believe, inflates the view that is an expensive title for the completist.

    Until RRE, SimBin titles had excellent mod support and, as we’re seeing with AC right now, that’s something that can win over this community in no small measure.

    • Jay Ekkel

      Mod support can either work for you or against you. I love seeing the true mods appear in AC. I don wonder though who is going to pay for something when they can get it for free 1 click furher. AC will have a fair amount of DLC as far as i can see. If people are epreally enjoying a (example) nissan skyline mod i wonder how many people would bother paying when AC would make their own skyline…

      And sadly enough i fear that nowadays there is only the minority that would bother buying the developer content to show support.

      • MiniFan

        I think Kunos feel they can produce DLC of better quality than most mods. Certainly modders will struggle to compete with laser scanned tracks. And at least you need to buy AC to run a mod. The problem with R3E and mods is presumably since you are giving the game engine away for free and only selling content, people could run mods on R3E without buying anything.

      • Jay Ekkel

        I know for a fact that Kunos can produce better quality work then the average joe, but that is not the question.

        I have just seen the C6R released, which looks pretty good, sounds ok, no idea how it drives but it cant be all bad.

        Now if 1000 people downloaded the mod and they enjoyed it, i doubt that more then 10% of those 1000 would go and buy the AC corvette if there was one to be released.

        For fun and if you can go to the rF1/rF2 lobbys and check how many servers are running GSC converted content from Reiza. And I bet almost most people didnt buy the the original game from Reiza.

        I asked once on of those servers, most of the people have no idea they are running something of a questionable origin, or have ever heard of Reiza/GSC game…

      • Almacca

        If that’s seriously how you see your customers, and me personally as one of them, then it really doesn’t surprise me that Simbin’s struggling.

        It’s been pretty clear that Simbin really doesn’t understand their market since the days of endlessly re-releasing of Race07 content with a few new bits and flogging it as a ‘new’ game, and nothing I’ve seen or heard from them since has dispelled that.

        You baffle me, sir.

      • Jay Ekkel

        Yes, i do believe it is wrong to believe that all simracers buy f.e. GSC so that they can play it on rF. Maybe I was wrong, hence why I asked certain people and their answers baffled me….”Reiza who is reiza, i thought this was a free mod.”

        So it not about them stealing, its about making sure people inside the community and especially new comers are educated.

        We never hid the fact that they were expansion packs, sometimes they were bundled but that is done by the publishers, we always tried to make sure content was availabke seperately.

      • Almacca

        Do you think you are the person to be doing that? You have a vested interest in selling to the ‘community’. Don’t be surprised if they take your attempts at ‘education’ with a grain of salt.

        Evidently some developers need some education about modding as well, but I suspect it’s too late for Simbin.

        I’m calling it now – the ‘new studio, new name…’ etc is going to be focused on iOS and Android FTP games. Seems to be the next logical step.

      • Jay Ekkel

        lol, you re so wrong with your call! :D

        Am I the person doing that, no i believe its the community that should do it. And there are only a few places that do their best to do so.I just poke at it every now and then to see how things are in the community.

        I was very happy to see that Kunos made a statement on their forums condemning ripped content after we released an open letter to the community and ISI has told us that if we see our content on their forums, it would be removed in a heartbeat.

        RD and a few other forums have had a no cross conversion policy for a long time, but there are still many places that dont care, they just rip and release.

      • Chris Wright

        Clearly there’s a dilemma here, but I think it’s fair to argue that you have to get the community on your side and it seems to me that the relatively open source of AC has already achieved just that. As MiniFan indicates, the key is for developers to produce clearly superior DLC that’s worth buying above any freeware that’s around.

        There may be extenuating circumstances behind the SimBin problems that we are unaware of, however it’s a popular view around here that your RRE business model is somewhat flawed.

        In fact, the key disappointment is that many of us were eagerly anticipating GTR3 and would have much preferred that as opposed to what SimBin decided we all needed. I would query their market research, to say the least.

      • Jay Ekkel

        Well you and I have been around long enough, that assuming the majority of the community will do the right thing is a bit of a fairy tale.

        Not saying its all bad, its an added challenge for Kunos. You run the chance you cant beat the amount of modded content with original content. Why pay 15 Eur for a DLC with 2 track and a car, when i can get 15- tracks for free!!!

        With regards to our (publishers) bussines model its the model they believe will work, and IMO it can work, but it will require some tweaks and foremost more of a game to give better value for the money. Hotlapping is only fun for so long…

        Just so you know, I will amen the day we can comment on GTR3, but until certain things are decided between the parties involved, we cannot comment on this.

      • Almacca

        “Why pay 15 Eur for a DLC with 2 track and a car, when i can get 15- tracks for free!!!”

        Couple of things. The reason I’d buy a mod would be that’d I’d expect that to be some sort of guarantee of quality. Amateur mods are a crapshoot at best.

        Treat your market with respect, by perhaps not assuming we’re all thieves and arseholes.

        That said, I’d consider 15 Eur for two cars and a track to be grossly overpriced. After the actual creation of the content, you can sell effectively infinite products for virtually nil resources. You make your money by selling them cheap in perpetuity, not by trying to create some kind of sense of false scarcity. Sell the same thing for 5 Eur, and you’ll sell in spades.

      • Jay Ekkel

        Hoooooo, i think you misunderstood something there.

        I nowhere said that not buying a DLC makes you a thief…. I said that its a hard sale for who ever is providing the paid content if your competition (aka modders) are giving it away for free.

        My question was nothing more then a question. Would we buy an original AC car in a dlc, if you can get the exact same car with nearly the same quality for free.

        Lets not ignore the fact that there are some talented guys out there, delivering some top notch content for nada…they are not only your fans in a way they are also your competition…

        FYI, the price was just a fictive number, I am all for ikea numbers. I rather sell 1000 for 1 EUR then 1 for 1000 EUR! ;)

      • Almacca

        Yeah, well the prices on RRRE don’t reflect that.

        As for your question – ‘Would we buy an original AC car in a dlc, if you can get the exact same car with nearly the same quality for free.’ I’ll let you know when and if that happens. In the meantime, the benefits of encouraging modding far outweigh some hypothetical concerns about ‘competition’.

        I own copies of GTR, GTR2 and GT Legends, all of which I have bought in the last 5 years. The first two I had to track down second hand discs, because I couldn’t buy them from Simbin at the time for any price. It’s only been since the Raceroom storefront opened that you even seemed willing to support your own product. I bought GTL solely to use the Historx mod. So, you got a bit of money for an ancient game so that I could play a mod from your ‘competition’. How many other opportunities like that are you and have you been passing up?

      • Jay Ekkel

        Well i appreciate that you take the effort of finding games. But trying to find “ancient” games can be a bit of a challenge. The digital era changed that which i think is good. The life span of a game hasn’t changed much but at least they are easy to find for the few that need them.

        It is a little bit wrong to believe we don’t support our old games though…I don’t think there are many developers that have lobby servers up and running for game that are 10 years old.

      • Almacca

        So, you agree they’re overpriced? Is that what I can take from that?

        Nevertheless, you miss my point. At the time (c2009/10) I was looking for them, Simbin had a presence on Steam, which your own website redirected to when you clicked on ‘Store’, but only had Race07 and it’s iterations. The ‘lack of support’ I mentioned has nothing to do with providing servers, but purely with letting me give you money for for a copy in a place where I could reasonably expect it to be ie. the publisher’s website.

        And that wasn’t even the main point. The ONLY reason I was looking for these games in the first place was because of the still active modding community. This is not an isolated incident either, and I’m sure I’m not alone. I firmly believe that a developer scorns the modding community at their peril. I find it odd that a company founded by former modders, and that currently employs modders thinks otherwise, but evidently the ‘project owners/management’ over there are all mad as hatters.

      • Jay Ekkel

        Do I agree? Not sure if it was here or on RD where I said that I do believe that the current value for money is crooked. But once MP and SP are released we are a very affordable if not cheap.

        I see what you mean by support, the distribution right to some of these IP’s were owned by 10Tacle our publisher, but after the bankruptcy in 2009 we filed for those to return to us 100%, which we got later in the year. That slowly started a process of getting these games back in our system again, which resulted in the re-releases in retail and digital forms since then. Nothing we could do prior to that.

        I am a modder at heart, I still help out mod teams when I have the chance/time. And I am not alone in that quite a few of our developers are helping/creating mods until this day (also for the other games)!

        But we stand behind our position of making sure our content is secure, and then look at what we can do with regards to modding. The last thing we want to see is see our hard work end up in a rF/AC.

        The amount of content I already see popping up on the rF and AC related forums/websites that originally come from our games, in my opionion converting assets has nothing to do with modding. Modding is creating something new from scratch.

        But in the end each its own, modding is great but also has its downsides, it creates fragmentation in the online side of things, when it becomes unclear what content servers are running, or which version of the track/cars etc etc.

        Lets see where we end up with rgeards to modding, I would think more in the direciton of iRacing then int he direction of rf/ac. But only time will tell.

  • smartin13

    does that mean that modders can use simbin content now?

    • MiniFan

      Its clear from Jay’s replies that new company will still own the rights to R3E, DTME and presumably all the older titles so I’m sure the answer is no.

  • Vince Klortho

    The words on Simbin’s history are a bit incomplete. Most of the various members began working on mods for ISI’s SCGT game in the late 1990s. Then the Simbin Development Team (SBDT) formed and produced the GTRv3 mod for F1 2001. That was followed by the GTR mod for F1 2002. After that mod many of the team formed the Simbin company to make the GTR game. SMS was formed after GTR2 and GTL’s publisher, 10tacle, went bankrupt. 10tacle was a part-owner in Blimey. Also – Blimey was instrumental in finishing the development of GTR2. The split with Simbin happened during its development and Blimey was contracted to complete the game.
    AFAIK – the current Simbin still had one member of the old SBDT on its payroll prior to this event.

    • Jay Ekkel

      The one thing that keeps surprising me is that SMS has the need to profile themselves as the creators of GTR. Yes they have people in the studio that worked on the GTR series, which I think is great since i still consider most of them as friends.

      But if i were part of that team I would be profiling myself as the creators of Project Cars or NFS Shift since those are the games that put you on the map to what you are now.

      At SimBin and plenty of other studios there are people that worked on various large titles in instrumental positions and possibly founders of some great games. I still have to see the day that we (SimBin) go out and profile ourselves as the creators from “insert game titles” of people that now are working here.

      And as many people that left, many stayed, some didn’t go with either place. Some left Blimey!, some left SMS, some left SimBin. that is just the nature of this industry. People move around.

      Last but not least, thanks to many of the people that stayed and remained with SimBin, they were instrumental in making sure the world knew about the GTR series or better without these people there would be no GTR game today. Without them none of these companies would have excited today and we would still be making mods!

      Just my 2p on the matter!

      • MontoyaVR

        Jay, to me it is not about single staff members, those move around in the industry as you say.

        But you can’t deny that Simbin’s roots go back to the people who are now behind SMS. They got the Simbin name going and laid the foundation for the reputation Simbin’s benefiting from until this very day.

        If Vince is correct and only one original SBDT member is still working at Simbin Studios now then this very much prove that point. If that’s true then there’s more original SBDT members involved in pCARS than there’s in Simbin’s current offerings :)

        I think there’s no need to discuss these things. Simbin’s employing plenty of artists from the community which is always great to see, nothing better than people turning their passion into a profession :)

      • Jay Ekkel

        I am not here to proof a thing really,just saying that credits should go where credits are due.

        It is almost fact that everyone involved in those early games would not be here today if it not have been for a large group of other people then the old mod group guys.

        As good as the “old crew” maybe, without a strong group of “non- old school simbinners” they including myself would mostly likely still sit at home and making mods in our own free time, if the wifes would allow it ofcourse!

        Big chance is that without those people, there would have been no simbin, there would have been no Blimey and there would ahve been no SMS.

        Like i said above, to me its just odd that a top tier studio like SMS, with 120+ people on the payroll, and a handful of old school crew members are still profiling themselves around these (now very) old games as they have so much else to be proud off. Ferrari game, NFS, pCars, and WOS.

        If it were me i’d be profiling myself around those games as those have my name on it!

        FYI, just to avoid confusion and to be clear this is my personal opinion. As much as i would assume you are not here in your official capacity from SMS. :)

      • Ian Bell

        Sorry Jay but we as a group in SMS now did absolutely everything on GT Legends and absolutely everything on GTR2 with the exception some textures on two cockpits.

        It’s never sensible to try to remove honest CV’s from people. You know as well as I do that the only reason SimBin got any mention on GT Legends or GTR2 was purely contractual.

        Best of luck to you, but don’t try to deny my staff their honest CV’s. If you continue, I’ll prove it which won’t do your reputation much good.

      • Jay Ekkel

        You miss the point that without the people that “didn’t do a thing” on these game there wouldn’t be a GTR or a GTR2…As it would be vice versa. :)

        Blimey games and everyone in the team back then are credited where they should be, no issues there why would there be?!

        I am flattered that you think my reputation is is so valuable that you consider it is worth staining it.

      • Ian Bell

        Oh dear Jay. We were called ‘Consultants’ whilst we did all of the work and SimBin were working solely on RACE. Those are the facts. We did all of the work. Honestly. Give it a rest as you don’t know the details clearly.

        SimBin had their credits above us. Check out Moby Games if you don’t believe me.

        I built SimBin from nothing. Employed you and everyone else in the company. When it became clear that I could not work with your ‘management’, I took my staff off to greener pastures. And yes, I didn’t take you. Get over it.

        I will not have the honest CV’s of my staff sullied by any more of your bullshit.

      • Andy Garton

        I’ll respond to your confusion on this one Jay:

        “Like i said above, to me its just odd that a top tier studio like SMS, with 120+ people on the payroll, and a handful of old school crew members are still profiling themselves around these (now very) old games as they have so much else to be proud off. Ferrari game, NFS, pCars, and WOS.”

        … I suspect for similar reasons that you have a GTR poster behind you in the video above. GTR, GTL and GTR2 were (and are) great games and we’re very proud of making them. Their age is irrelevant to me; I put my heart and soul into making them and am still bitter (yes, after all this time!) about the way we were denied appropriate credit. To see you propagating that myth here is … a shame.

        We’re no less proud of our recent work, but the recent games have the name of the developer that made them on the box :-)

      • Jay Ekkel

        My last response to this subject, cause its getting a bit silly in here, is that i am not denying anyone any credits or will i ever. If anything I am proud as a simracer (and now also an ex simbinner) to see you what you guys are putting out on the market!

        Have a great upcoming release!

      • Ian Bell

        PS, ‘credits should go where credits are due’ is a joke.

        You tried to sue us for asserting our credits. You lost.

      • Jay Ekkel

        I have no idea about the details of this lawsuit, but afaik it wasn’t about the credits.

        as far as i am concerned SMS should be f’ing proud of what you have achieved as SMS.

        My question above was an honest wondering why SMS still leans on those old (but great games) they made when the guys were called Blimey! when they have so much else to bargain with with their current achievements.

        Also great to see your army of anonymous up voters at work!

      • Ian Bell

        It was all about us legitimately claiming that we did all of the work, which was the truth. You lost.

        You can accept the reality here or continue to spout untruths but that doesn’t change what was decided in law.

        Again, all the best to you. I’m going to refuse your latest job application if that’s ok.

      • Jay Ekkel

        ROFLMAO, job application.

        Assuming you mean the one where I said I appreciated your email after the closure news hit, which i really apreciated after not speaking to you for many years.

        The same mail where is I said everything is OK and the future is bright for the new studio. And that I had no worries…then made a funny comment about “let me know when you need a licensing manager”.

        If you refer to that one, yes then please refuse it.

      • Ian Bell

        You’re making a fool of yourself now Jay.

        Let’s move on.

      • Jay Ekkel

        You are an unique character, i have to say, but yeah lets move on!

      • Ian Bell

        It’s the one where you asked for a licensing role with us seeing as you’re laughing at me.

        I’m not going to go ahead with that.

        Cheers!

        (I have the email here BTW. I suspect you need to focus on reality a bit Jay as opposed to letting some misplaced bitterness affect your sanity).

      • Jay Ekkel

        tried attaching something, but my comment was removed/deleted? Maybe due to attachments, anyways

        I thought we moved on….yet here we still are???

        I assume we are talking about the same email. I have only ever send you one directly, so it must be….

        If that’s the case, then we must have completely different standards when it comes to applying for a job, which is can happen, not a problem.

        It will not happen again, my apologies for the confusion.

        This is getting silly, if you want to talk it over you have my contact info. Otherwise i am going to leave it at this.

        Good luck with your upcoming release!

  • Jay Ekkel

    this is me btw, but for whatever reason my posts did not show, I reposted, now it showed up twice. tried removing one. Now its showing as guest post??

    Maybe @MontoyaVR:disqus can remove this double post?

    • F1Racer

      Done

      • RichardHessels

        What a place to discuss such a dispute…
        that’s the most interesting read i had here in some time here…

  • Marc Collins

    Wow, this conversation was illuminating to someone who has been around through the release of all these titles. Unfortunately, not in a positive way. It is obvious why there was a parting of the minds and then bodies, though. Hope it’s as obvious to most readers as it is to me.

    • Jay Ekkel

      Just an fyi, ian and myself spoke outside of this emotional chat from both sides. We kissed, made up and have beer plans for the future.

  • SmallBizAdvisor

    Great sims, I’m sorry to hear of the financial problems and hope these talented people can bring us some more titles in the future.

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