RaceSimCentral Forums Close

This is by far the saddest news I have to report since VirtualR opened in 2007 but the RaceSimCentral crew has just announced to be closing their forums indefinitely, following the latest data loss.

In mid-December, RSC’s hoster suffered a data failure that affected both the regular data as well as the backup server, causing the forum to go down. The RSC crew is now trying to recover what’s left of the data and hopes to build a static mirror of the forum so that people can browse the tons of stored info.

If you have any experience with professional data recovery, make sure to contact the RSC crew here: community@racesimcentral.com

Either way, the RaceSimCentral forums will not come back in their past form as corner stone of the community and home of countless of mod teams. The full statement of the RSC crew can be found here.

This is a sad day for the whole community as there are probably not many sim racers who have not used RSC in the past. Personally, RSC was one of the first sim racing sites I joined back in 2002 and in it’s eight years of existence, the forum played a crucial part in keeping our community alive and healthy.

For those who really need to find some info posted on RSC, you might want to try Google’s Cache feature as it still allows to browse most of RSC’s Google results.

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • http://www.tltracks.com Alex

    A sad day :(

  • UncleChuckle

    Would have been nice of them to tell the few remaining volunteers first…

  • Chrisuu01

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :ooo: :eek: :sad: .

    First CTRA closes in LFS now this :sad:

  • GeraArg

    :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

  • foxfan2010

    It is sad, but to be honest that place has been dead for a long while now, lots of up and downtimes….

  • Panchito

    :sad:

    We will miss you RSC

  • carbonfibre

    I remember waiting ages for them to come back initially just I could grab all the G25 modding guides. :neutral:

    Where can that massive group of people possibly migrate too now? :wink:

  • henbrleape

    :sad:

  • Raikku

    Maybe they should ask funding from EU.

  • michael

    foxfan2010: It is sad, but to be honest that place has been dead for a long while now, lots of up and downtimes….

    Yeah, the thing about sim sites is, they’re all the same now – assuming they ever differed.

    The same stories (obviously RSC just took from here directly) the same people contributing to the same threads on the same subjects in 4 or 5 different places.

    You can read Peter Pissquick’s need for speed shift G25 settings on RD, and then 2 minutes later read them again on nogrip…and once again on EA’s forum. Where you can see the same “is it a sim?” and “input lag, you’re all noobs!” threads, and no doubt there is a “it’s a sad day, guys, RSC is closed” on all these forums too.

    But is it really a pity that the RSC forum is closed. All it means is you can’t start a thread on RSC saying what a pity it is that it’s closed. Given the number of identical threads, with identical people posting, hosted elsewhere, somehow the tears don’t seem credible.

    Look at the bright side – now the 50 people that constitute the “sim community” will only have to post the same thing four times, instead of five. If we pull together as a community we could probably get that down to one or two…

  • Gaiajohan

    A sad day, even tho’ I didn’t use it much. I was mainly reading there instead of writing. They did never come over the problems after February this year.. I don’t know why, kinda odd etc.. I just hope the admins will find another great job within simracing. Some have like Mikkel and I saw others coming to other sim forums like RD and GC.

    On RSC was the real knowledge and old threads with a lot of info. I hope much of it can be restored..

  • Gaiajohan

    michael:
    Yeah, the thing about sim sites is, they’re all the same now – assuming they ever differed.The same stories (obviously RSC just took from here directly) the same people contributing to the same threads on the same subjects in 4 or 5 different places.You can read Peter Pissquick’s need for speed shift G25 settings on RD, and then 2 minutes later read them again on nogrip…and once again on EA’s forum.

    I’m seeing one other forum going the same way. Especially when it comes to getting worse to modding community and number of bans. The site colour is orange.

  • http://historicgt.8.forumer.com Rantam

    Sad indeed. The best simracing comunity site is gone :(

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    UncleChuckle: Would have been nice of them to tell the few remaining volunteers first…

    Jeez, Mr Bitterness strikes again. Never a nice word for anyone or anything.
    Quite a selfish comment there. Their whole forum bites the dust and all you can think of is that some people should have been notified. Are you one of these volunteers ? If not you shouldn’t be speaking for those that are. If you are, thats a hell of a selfish statement.

    What a shame RSC has gone down. I dunno how you lose main and backup date at the same time though. Must have been a freak incident.
    Maybe something will crop back up again in the future. RSC stored a hell of a lot of info in all of the threads on there.
    So where is the main sim hangout forum going to be now ? (Not counting here because this is a blog site).

    Anyway if enough people cared enough, maybe there could be donations made so they can send the hard disk to a professional data recovery firm. I know that aint cheap and the downside is if they can’t recover much data after spending all that money.
    But its worth a shot.

    :sad:

  • Gaiajohan

    F1Racer:
    (Not counting here because this is a blog site).

    Actually this site also has a (rather small) forum.

  • ForzaBarca88

    Holy shit, that place is like a library for all things simracing. Real shame that all that info is just lost forever…..hopefully they can recover some of it. All the best to the RSC crew.

  • http://simracing.in.ua Pandamasque

    ForzaBarca88:
    Holy shit, that place is like a library for all things simracing. Real shame that all that info is just lost forever…..hopefully they can recover some of it. All the best to the RSC crew.

    Yes. Exactly! Although it has been half-dead since the last major and unacceptably lengthy downtime, it’s the knowledge base that’s just doesn’t exist anywhere else that we’ll be missing hugely.

    virtualr.net has the credibility and the popularity to become the new home for the community, however I feat that most members will find the current forum engine not user friendly. It’s not bad and has a lot of interesting extras, but as a message board it’s takes some getting used to which may scare people away.

  • Satorian

    So now the corpse of a thing that had been killed a long time ago is about to be buried?

    RSC has been a site with some great people and lots of interesting data as amassed by its users, but over the past few years it’s not been much more than a limping data repository. As a forum and a community it’s been killed by a select few way before its (supposedly) final lapse today.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Gaiajohan:
    Actually this site also has a (rather small) forum.

    ok if you want to nitpick. Thanks for the reminder.

  • Danny

    Ive never seen any forum with such constant technical issues and server failures. Looks like incompetent managment killed it. A real waste of a great community. That was the place to be for sim racing. Luckily we now have iracing forums which is the main sim racing hub these days.

  • Ghoults

    Defenately sad news. Even if rsc was no longer the ultimate hub of simracing (few sites were kind of growing while rsc was shrinking) it still had history and it was the place where you could still talk about some games that were basically gone.

    RIP rsc, for one, I’ll miss it and the magnificent work that was done.

  • David Fletcher

    Sad to read, but perhaps just as well that there is finally some closure. Although RSC was the glue that held simracing together as we knew it for many years, it had long ago lost it’s foothold. For the GPL community, I think it’s time for the Simracing MirrorZone (http://gplmz.bcsims.com/)to become the community home for GPL. Bill Cooper’s Speedgeezers family has stepped forward over the last couple of years to fill in the gaps left by the RSC situation, and should now be looked to as ‘the’ place for GPL.

  • N0body Of The Goat

    Quite a sad day in the simming world… :sad2:

    It was RSC that enlightened me to the delights of sim racing around 2002, rather than arcade. It enlightened me because I found the place while looking for a community for issues regarding those arcade games and then found about the “dark side.” RSC’s strength was its variety.

    I only hope that a site/forum will take up the ashes and rekindle the flames…

  • Jack_NL

    Very sad news indeed

  • Rhys

    michael:
    Yeah, the thing about sim sites is, they’re all the same now – assuming they ever differed.The same stories (obviously RSC just took from here directly) the same people contributing to the same threads on the same subjects in 4 or 5 different places.You can read Peter Pissquick’s need for speed shift G25 settings on RD, and then 2 minutes later read them again on nogrip…and once again on EA’s forum. Where you can see the same “is it a sim?” and “input lag, you’re all noobs!” threads, and no doubt there is a “it’s a sad day, guys, RSC is closed” on all these forums too.But is it really a pity that the RSC forum is closed. All it means is you can’t start a thread on RSC saying what a pity it is that it’s closed. Given the number of identical threads, with identical people posting, hosted elsewhere, somehow the tears don’t seem credible.

    You are correct in saying that a lot of the same info is posted on different forums, but RSC had a lot of stuff on it, like DIY projects among other things, that has never been seen anywhere else – and considering what I’ve read on sites such as NoGrip, many people found those things important. Now that they are not currently accessible due to the crash, that’s quite a bit of useful information for simracers that has been lost.

  • Crowbar

    Moderated themselves out of it, unfortunatley it was a no freedom of speech there , so the majority leave or got banned , it was funny to see a thread with half the members banned lol, Crazy power drunk fools.

  • DeDios

    ForzaBarca88: Holy shit, that place is like a library for all things simracing. Real shame that all that info is just lost forever…..hopefully they can recover some of it. All the best to the RSC crew.

    +1

    Just really sad news.. :sad2:

  • Firestarter

    Really good news! That forum was so slow anyway, that it was pretty useless, as there are far better simracing forums out there.

  • F1_fan_1

    Firestarter: Really good news! That forum was so slow anyway, that it was pretty useless, as there are far better simracing forums out there.

    Then you probably haven’t experienced the best days of that forum… This is a great miss for the community. :sad:

  • Hank Amarillo

    It´s a shame how the whole RSC situation ends.

  • DRat

    Sorry to see it go – it was primarily the home of GPL for a long, long time, as was its predecessor.

    It’s like learning that your favorite college watering hole has closed. There are quite a few others in the neighborhood, though, and there are a few that will carry the original tradition forward.

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    RSC was the mother of all simracing communities, sad to see it shut down.

    Personally my simrace ‘carreer’ was concieved @ RSC many years ago, and without it’s major knowledge-database and technical insight in just about all aspects of the basic ISI engine – which must be considered the heart of moddable simracing – I would never had started Custom-8 to release Jyllandsringen, mainly for the danish community – which unfortunately also have bled out the past years.

    Thanks to RSC for their time and effort, best wishes for the future to all involved :sad2:

  • Graag

    Does anyone know how they managed to lose all data on two server on same day? Servers usually have RAID-system for hard disks, this means that one hard-drive on server can break without data loss. So IF servers had RAID there would have had to been four simultaneous disk failures, which is imbossible.

    Any server which handles site as large as RSC, needs to have RAID on it. If it does’t have it, it is administrators fault when disks break and data is lost.

    Anyway, if these are simply faulty disks, the data can be restored. It just isn’t cheap.

  • Loetkoe

    Maybe there could be a VirtualR forum? It might turn out to be very popular :weird:

  • http://simracing.in.ua Pandamasque

    Loetkoe:
    Maybe there could be a VirtualR forum? It might turn out to be very popular

    Maybe there is :wink:
    http://virtualr.ning.com/forum

  • EddieofSWE

    I feel sorry for those who loves to play “racer”, I did it before I started to look at the more popular simulations like GTR. R.I.P RSC! :sad:

  • Loetkoe

    Pandamasque:
    Maybe there is http://virtualr.ning.com/forum

    Cool! Thanks. :happy: I didn’t see it on the main page. :weird:

  • http://www.xtremeracers.info crobol

    In my opinion Montoya have a lot of work with virtualR, than it will be not possible to start a big forum like RSC without the help from a strong crew of moderators.

    To start a site like RSC isn’t an easy job and needs powerful servers, and that’s not cheap.

    The RSC closure it’s a great loss. Hopefully it will appear new places to become meeting point of moders, DIY engineers and Sim lovers…

    Thanks RSC by all of this years.

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Exactly, the current forum in the community zone is just ment to be a place where people can post VirtualR-related stuff, it’s in no way cut out to replace RSC.

    I´m having my hands full keeping the news site afloat and healthy and I´m not planning to start a bigger forum as it would require additional time and resources (money) I just don’t have.

    In the end, it would end up hurting the news portion of the site, something I want to avoid by all means. So I´ll be concentrating on the news part, someone else needs to step up and replace RSC.

  • Howie47

    Crowbar: Moderated themselves out of it, unfortunatley it was a no freedom of speech there , so the majority leave or got banned , it was funny to see a thread with half the members banned lol, Crazy power drunk fools.

    They had their day of being the center of Simracing. But the administration became the authors of their own demise. Which actually started a few years ago when they assumed an air of superiority. Which resulted in over bearing moderation, which resulted in driving to many to other forums. Even to start new forums. That is the FACT of the matter.

  • http://www.tltracks.com Alex

    Been a very bad year for racing sim sites. Virtualr the only highlight. rFc and RSC both gone into a very bad decline. Slightly concerning to see there arent many places worth bothering with anymore.

  • Burgunder

    This was the BEST simracingforum, with a great variety of sims being covered, and an exellent hardwaresection too, and it has been a part of my daily life since 2002 and it’s so sad to see that it’s gone. I will BTW not only miss the information stored there but I will also miss al the great posters there.

  • Burgunder

    P.S. I do fear that this will be a major blow to our hobby, which is allready suffering if you ask me.

  • http://www.ajira-racing.com TeroD

    I find it amusing that all you RSC haters are so glad to see it die. You have dozens of places to go bitch and moan about RSC. Why do you care so much about RSC if you hate it? Also the fact that you throw around “freedom of speech” is hilarious as you clearly don’t know what it means and also you don’t understand that forum admins can set their own rules. Just because it’s aimed for public doesn’t mean they have to let every asshole in.

    As RSC has been down so much in the past year or so, I’ve learnt not to miss it too much. And there are and will be forums that can take the place of it as a place where simracers can gather from now on, but as a database of knowledge it’s irreplaceable. So I really hope they can recover even some of the data and have it up as a static site.

    I will especially miss the DIY forum.

    RIP old friend.

    – Tero Dahlberg
    – BrotherGlade

  • scca1981

    I stopped visiting the site daily this past year because the simbin sections were pretty much dead and moved to nogrip. So to me its not a huge loss there. What is a loss is the massive amount of data a lot of people mention above. That’s a lot of tutorials and more that helped me get into modding. You also have to figure all the “official” forums that were hosted there. Hopefully those guys can find new hosts.

    Where will Simbin’s official forums be now?

  • Paul Kelly

    As others have noted, the saddest aspect of the closure of RSC was that it was a virtual Library of Congress for sim racing. Nearly every question I ever had about various sims could be answered through the information in the posts at RSC.

    It had its share of sh*tstorms like all forums, but I thought the moderation was pretty even-handed. And when it came to an information resource for ALL PC sims, from the most mainstream to the most obscure, RSC couldn’t be beat.

    I also appreciated how RSC stayed true to its PC sim roots.

  • Mojo66

    michael:
    Yeah, the thing about sim sites is, they’re all the same now – assuming they ever differed.

    The reason behind this is pretty straightforward once you dig a bit deeper into the business: when a forum becomes big enough it raises interest from the industry, who are keen to sponsor you with free copies of games etc in order to keep criticism and piracy down.

    As some of you might know, I released a free upgrade to Race On for all of us who had bought Evo and felt that our support of the company was ridiculed by SimBin by giving us a mere €5 discount on Race On. Basically we would have paid for the game twice, because you can’t sell a Steam game. So ### you SimBin.

    The interesting bit was however that because of offering a pirated version of Race On on my homepage (which is still available) SimBin put nogrip under pressure to ban me which they did immediately. Now why would nogrip ban someone who offered exclusive content, for example the GTL mod was hosted exclusively on nogrip and had around 13.000 downloads, without hesitation? Only because of money, right?

    So there you go, you can’t say “#### SimBin” anywhere because all the major forums are whores to the industry and that’s why all major forums are over-moderated.

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Are you kidding me? A free upgrade? Your “mod” is straight up piracy and nothing else.

    And you wonder why forums ban you? This has nothing to do with free speech or anything, no self-respecting forum or site will allow piracy like that. You think the RACE On content is too expensive? Don’t buy it then..

    But in what world does that give you the right to freely distribute it? I might as well start stealing Ferraris then…they´re ridiculously expensive if you ask me.

    By the way, I edited your comment not because this site is over-moderated as you call it but because I don’t allow swearing in general here and insults like that add nothing to the discussion.

  • http://www.ajira-racing.com TeroD

    Mojo66:
    The reason behind this is pretty straightforward once you dig a bit deeper into the business: when a forum becomes big enough it raises interest from the industry, who are keen to sponsor you with free copies of games etc in order to keep criticism and piracy down.

    So there you go, you can’t say “#### SimBin” anywhere because all the major forums are whores to the industry and that’s why all major forums are over-moderated.

    You live in a dreamworld. Unofficial forums get shit from devs or anyone else from the industry. The idea of “The Big Bad Industry” bribing forum runners to stifle criticism and privacy is hilarious.

    Also, most forums aren’t moderated enough.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com Arnold Carter Wong

    Montoya: Are you kidding me? A free upgrade? Your “mod” is straight up piracy and nothing else.And you wonder why forums ban you? This has nothing to do with free speech or anything, no self-respecting forum or site will allow piracy like that. You think the RACE On content is too expensive? Don’t buy it then..But in what world does that give you the right to freely distribute it? I might as well start stealing Ferraris then…they´re ridiculously expensive if you ask me.By the way, I edited your comment not because this site is over-moderated as you call it but because I don’t allow swearing in general here and insults like that add nothing to the discussion.

    Agree. And this guy is just one of those who are destroying the community. I really dislike those who rip the things and release them around, as what we can see in China, those so-called modders are just ripping the cars from the other games and mods.

  • Mojo66

    @Montoya: If you think the world is either black or white, then you might call my Race On upgrade pack piracy, definitely. Fortunately the internet is still providing enough freedom (yet) so that an individual can set it’s own rules, up to a certain degree. You know, as a good citizen who is true to the capitalistic system, you might indeed say “if it’s too expensive, then don’t buy it”. But there are other colors between black and white, there are other cultures than the US and there are other systems than capitalism. Widen your mind, dude. 300 years ago, The Pope set the rules, who cares about The Pope nowadays? Anyway, I paid good money for Race 07, then paid for Evo then paid for STCC. I got all of this via Steam, so I’m stuck with it. The Race On update would have cost me €25. The full game, i.e. Race On + Race07+Evo+STCC costs €30. Therefore SimBin honors those who have supported them in the past with a mere €5 rebate. If I get Race On for free thanks to the internet, good capitalist citizens would call that piracy, I call it getting a rebate that is closer to what I would have expected. As I said, not everything in the world is either black or white. Use your brain, broaden your mind, and don’t blindly follow any rules.

    @TeroD: Whoever wants to run a dedicated server usually gets a free copy the SimBin game in question to do so, you just have to direct your request properly. On first glance, this seems to be a nice draw by SimBin, but it also is a nice cheap way to shut up the forums that are usually associated with those dedicated servers. *This* is the reality dude.

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    If you want to live in this society of ours, you have to obey to its rules, simple as that. You enjoy the perks of living in a civilised society, that means you have to do your share to keep it that way….that’s what rules are for.

    Like I said, it can be argued wheter or not the RACE On upgrade is too expensive, you don’t have the right to take it for free just because you disagree with the price though. It’s Simbin’s product and they´re free to sell it for any price they like.. nobody is forcing you to buy it.

    Just because you expected it to be cheaper, dosen’t give you the right to act out like a little child. Like I said, I think Ferraris are way to expensive so I might just steal one. Just my way of getting a rebate..right?

    This has nothing to do with seeing everything black and white, it’s just a basic rule of society – Don’t steal!

    And about other systems than capitalism: Please tell me one country or one system where what you did is considered to be legal.

  • DW

    Sadly the modding community seems hell bent on its own destruction. Conversion is fine but it has been taken to the point where developers are seen as the enemy as are makers of scratch made cars and tracks if they place any obstacles in the way of the converters.

    RSCs demise is just a simptom of this. RSC will always symbolise for me the golden age of modding so perhaps its fitting that its closing.

  • Mojo66

    @Montoya: You’re still bound to your black and white world because in your world something is either legal or illegal. Your argument is that if I live in a society, I have to obey all (i.e. 100%) of the rules that the rulers of this society make. Maybe your rules fit 100% into the society you live in, but *I* have my own set of rules that I live on, called “Ethics”, and those ethics do not necessarily fit 100% into the society I’m living in. Let me give you an example: I sometimes cross a red traffic light if there is absolutely no traffic in sight, because I think I can judge the situation better than a traffic computer with the brains of a mosquito can. Now you in your black an white world would call me a law breaker. But I’m just trying to live as close to my ethics as possible. Being able to do so is usally called “freedom”. And as sometimes crossing a red traffic light doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m a traffic menace, stealing from SimBin doesn’t necessarily mean I have stolen everything I own, especially not my Ferrari ;-) So basically I’m saying that in this individual case, my ethics better fit to piracy than to buying, and in this lucky case the internet gives me the freedom to stick to my ethics.

  • Torino

    Geez Mojo.

    I´ve seen people on the internet going to great lentghs trying to rationalize their own BS before, but you´ve taken it to a whole new level. Congrats!

  • Mojo66

    Torino: Geez Mojo.I´ve seen people on the internet going to great lentghs trying to rationalize their own BS before, but you´ve taken it to a whole new level. Congrats!

    Have you ever tried to describe colors to people who live in a b&w world?

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Well, I can only advise you to lock your door tonight because my ethics tell me I should break into your house and take half your stuff with me.

    I´m sure you won’t mind finding that out tomorrow morning, since we´re all just trying to express our personal “freedom” right?

    Every fourth-grader understands that no society can work if some people break the rules while all others obey them. I bet you´re crying the loudest if someone steals from you or does something bad to you…

  • Torino

    Let me ask you a question. How colorful will your world be, when sim developers, volunteers like the ones who ran RSC, and the one who runs this site, finally stop bothering? Will you just move on to become a leach in some other community?

    The problem here is that you are completely oblivious to how financially marginal any of these sim-racing related activities are. We just aren´t very big. And the fact that we´re probably the online community with the biggest rate of dickheads per capita doesnt help matters.

    At some point these people are just not going to bother anymore. Hell, many have already moved on to broader fields where there is at least enough money to be worth the hassle. Who will you rip off then, and who will you be annoying with your intellectually dishonest mumbo jumbo?

  • http://simracing.in.ua Pandamasque

    @ Mojo66, you better lock the door well tonight, or Montoya’s going to come and steal all your Ferraris! I’d hide them under the bed if I were you.

  • Paul Kelly

    Firestarter: Really good news! That forum was so slow anyway, that it was pretty useless, as there are far better simracing forums out there.

    So I take it you started visiting RSC only in the last year or two. If you had been there earlier, you never would have typed that post.

  • UncleChuckle

    F1Racer:
    Are you one of these volunteers ?

    Yes, in all seriousness, I was actually. And reading the announcement on here was the first I knew about it.

  • Paul Kelly

    Mojo66: @Montoya: You’re still bound to your black and white world because in your world something is either legal or illegal. Your argument is that if I live in a society, I have to obey all (i.e. 100%) of the rules that the rulers of this society make. Maybe your rules fit 100% into the society you live in, but *I* have my own set of rules that I live on, called “Ethics”, and those ethics do not necessarily fit 100% into the society I’m living in. Let me give you an example: I sometimes cross a red traffic light if there is absolutely no traffic in sight, because I think I can judge the situation better than a traffic computer with the brains of a mosquito can. Now you in your black an white world would call me a law breaker. But I’m just trying to live as close to my ethics as possible. Being able to do so is usally called “freedom”. And as sometimes crossing a red traffic light doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m a traffic menace, stealing from SimBin doesn’t necessarily mean I have stolen everything I own, especially not my Ferrari ;-) So basically I’m saying that in this individual case, my ethics better fit to piracy than to buying, and in this lucky case the internet gives me the freedom to stick to my ethics.

    So how well will your “ethics” hold up in a court of law? Do you think your “ethics” are a rational defense in a criminal or civil case?

    If a cop pulled you over for running that red light, could you use your “personal ethics” as a valid defense against being ticketed or prosecuted?

    “Geez, officer, I think there’s nothing wrong with running a red light even though it’s a law, so you can’t ticket me.”

    Comical.

  • Firestarter

    RSC != Simracing community.

    And i don`t consider people ripping textures and 3D models from others as part of the simracing community. It`s about time the eagles nest for rippers and crappy mod makers is finito.

  • Mojo66

    Nice to see that some of you guys seem to live in Pleasantville. Obviously, none of you has ever walked a red traffic light, or stolen anything from anyone. You obey the law because your granny told you to. And if Uncle Sam wants you to fight in Vietnam, you do, no questions asked.

    I just say I can justify pirating RaceOn from SimBin. They saw my money 3 times, now they didn’t, who cares? And for the 100th time, this doesn’t imply that I rob my neighbours, I mean how stupid must someone be to imply that? And if never stolen anything from anyone, fine for you, otherwise stop being a hippocrite.

    Oh and BTW anyone who thinks I’m a thief should delete all my mods, thank you!

  • mike84

    sad to lose all the files and information from modding tutorials, wheel settings, cockpit building etc.

    hopefully they can recover most of the files.

  • http://www.ajira-racing.com TeroD

    Mojo66:@TeroD: Whoever wants to run a dedicated server usually gets a free copy the SimBin game in question to do so, you just have to direct your request properly. On first glance, this seems to be a nice draw by SimBin, but it also is a nice cheap way to shut up the forums that are usually associated with those dedicated servers. *This* is the reality dude.

    I don’t see how that relates to what you said and what I replied to. Nice attempt though ;)

    And btw, it’s dev stupidity to put out games without free dediservers.

    lol, so because you choose to cross the street on red it makes you exercise your freedom, but if I choose not to do that then I have no freedom and live in a black and white world? Gotta love your logic :D

    I do get your logic and etchics, as poorly as you explain them, but just because we don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you should jump to such ridiculous conclusions. See the previous paragraph where I did just that. It doesn’t really make for a great or civil discussion ;)

  • quik4ever

    first so bad for rcs, couldnt though this big one will close one day, so many contributions, so many topics…

    then +1 for mojo66, i think like that, second :

    “So how well will your “ethics” hold up in a court of law? Do you think your “ethics” are a rational defense in a criminal or civil case?”

    people that think like him would assume their “red light run” so in most cases, they’ll never go to the court, just take the ticket, cuz like he said, he’ll run the red light with nobody on the road, so red light is useless in this case and a cop wont fine u because there is no cop there, thats why you run the red light in this case : nobody on the road…

    “If a cop pulled you over for running that red light, could you use your “personal ethics” as a valid defense against being ticketed or prosecuted?”

    no, you’ll make the “big boy” and take ur fine, so the cop wont start looking for a broken light or at your tires…

    he was speaking of “intelligent move around” the rules, rules are done for pennyless people, not for rich intelligent ones… and in most of cases, the cop will just pull u over, no fine, just warning, because he saw that you are not the kind of people that will “abuse” of “laws breaking”…

  • flips

    This is sad news indeed… I’ve spent hours and hours in the cockpit diy section looking at peoples designs while I built mine. In fact I probably spent more time on the forums than I’ve spent racing in my cockpit.. :)

    So where are all these forum replacements? Are there any forums that talk about diy hardware like rsc did? Even though a guy from the way I play would mention that site in every thread it doesn’t seem to have taken off to much.

  • captain_underpants

    While I’m a bit of an anarchist at heart, and sympathise to a degree with mojo66, the fact is that there are rules in place, and they’re there for a good reason. That reason, as Montoya so clearly demonstrates, is that given freedom from formal rules, people will abuse them. The rules are there so that no-one gets unnecessarily inconvenienced by the selfish antics of others. If you can break the rules without it impinging on anyone else, as in the red light example, I say have at it. If you get pulled up by the police, the wise choice is to take your lumps and pay the fine. Simple.

    The trick to being an anarchist in this society is merely one of discretion. Keep it under the radar, work around the rules rather than baldfacedly rejecting them. Broadcasting that you’re offering a pirated version of software is probably a little foolish. I don’t seriously believe that everyone ripping into Mojo actually obeys all the rulaes all the time. Frankly it’s impossible.

    Ultimately the application of the rules is a matter between the each individual and their conscience, and the decision to want to live in a civilised manner with other people by agreeing that a reasonable, objective set of rules makes that simpler. If the rules only work because of the threat of punishment, then they have failed their purpose. Also, there are far too many unreasonable rules, created by selfish or ignorant rulemakers. The real problem at the crux of this is a failing of the education system to provide a proper moral framework. It’s pretty much left up to parents to teach morals these days, and that’s ad hoc at best. No-one is told WHY they should follow the rules, merely that they should, or else.

    As for the Race On thing. I agree it’s overpriced. My method, should I want to play it, is to wait for the inevitable price drop or Steam sale.

  • http://www.juniorseo.com pinje

    What a shame :( is a sad day. Will always remember looking through the many many pages of screen shots that came from rFactor and Grand Prix 4.

  • Paul Kelly

    Mojo66:Oh and BTW anyone who thinks I’m a thief should delete all my mods, thank you!

    No need for thanks. I’ve never used your pirated POS.

  • Paul Kelly

    quik4ever: first so bad for rcs, couldnt though this big one will close one day, so many contributions, so many topics…then +1 for mojo66, i think like that, second :“So how well will your “ethics” hold up in a court of law? Do you think your “ethics” are a rational defense in a criminal or civil case?”people that think like him would assume their “red light run” so in most cases, they’ll never go to the court, just take the ticket, cuz like he said, he’ll run the red light with nobody on the road, so red light is useless in this case and a cop wont fine u because there is no cop there, thats why you run the red light in this case : nobody on the road…“If a cop pulled you over for running that red light, could you use your “personal ethics” as a valid defense against being ticketed or prosecuted?”no, you’ll make the “big boy” and take ur fine, so the cop wont start looking for a broken light or at your tires…he was speaking of “intelligent move around” the rules, rules are done for pennyless people, not for rich intelligent ones… and in most of cases, the cop will just pull u over, no fine, just warning, because he saw that you are not the kind of people that will “abuse” of “laws breaking”…

    So what happens when a pirate who thinks Big Developer X isn’t looking or has received my money three times is pursued for copyright infringement by Big Developer X?

    Will they use that same moronic defense as someone who is pulled over after running a red light at a seemingly desolate intersection, only to see a cop pull out of an adjacent convenience store or alley with lights on?

  • Paul Kelly

    captain_underpants:Broadcasting that you’re offering a pirated version of software is probably a little foolish.

    Of course it is, and therein lies the rub. No one is a perfectly law-abiding angel, but people who are clever about it don’t broadcast their deceit in a public Internet forum.

    That is hubris, which has been the downfall of many a man. It’s also stupid.

  • michael

    F1Racer:
    Anyway if enough people cared enough, maybe there could be donations made so they can send the hard disk to a professional data recovery firm.

    Well it’s was simbin’s official site. If simbin had spent last year writing a decent new modern game, instead of releasing yet another 2 or 3 versions of Race 07, perhaps they’d have made enough money to pay for leaderboard servers and for an official forum that worked?

    UncleChuckle:
    Yes, in all seriousness, I was actually. And reading the announcement on here was the first I knew about it.

    Well, don’t put down to maliciousness what might be explained by assuming the same buffoons responsible for the forum’s data were involved in the email server too :sd:

    Mojo66:
    The reason behind this is pretty straightforward once you dig a bit deeper….

    Hmm, you’re just ranting about yourself “It’s all about me and what I did and what happened to me! Me! Me! Me!” I could understand your confusion if your name is “Ray Simcentral”, but we’re talking about a forum, Raymond, not you. Easy mistake etc etc.

    That said, if you were good enough to write a game, you’d write one, but you aren’t.

    Even then, the games industry isn’t like being a rock star, with a few notable exceptions, it is basically comprised of artists that aren’t good enough to sell art, musicians that aren’t good enough to sell records, actors that aren’t good enough to get film or theatre roles and programmers that aren’t good enough to write solid code, all working together, green with Hollywood-envy dreaming about the day, they imagine, when they can say “don’t you know who we are?” to someone who could care less.

    But, even if you want to act like a rock star, it might be a good idea to sell a few million records or games first.

  • UncleChuckle

    Michael: ROFL! It was just very frustrating to learn about RSC’s demise via VirtualR’s Twitter feed. Came as somewhat of a shock I can tell you.

    I can understand it was kind of a sudden decision but some sort of acknowledgment would have been nice. Maybe a mass email or something.

    Disappointing to see it end this way :sad2:

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    michael:
    Well it’s was simbin’s official site. If simbin had spent last year writing a decent new modern game, instead of releasing yet another 2 or 3 versions of Race 07, perhaps they’d have made enough money to pay for leaderboard servers and for an official forum that worked?

    Hmm not sure about that. If Simbin had gone for a more modern game, it’s development would have cost more and IF it had made more money than another Race incarnation, not only would those costs have to be covered, but there are no guarantees that they would have spent any money on RSC forums.

  • Hoopstar

    So I wonder if I’ll get my donation credited back from RSC..??

    Personally I am not surprised at all by this “news” – the place started to fall apart after “Simbin-gate”.. then the big hard drive crash (no doubt caused because Simbin pulled out their “sponsorship”).

    Personally, I was only interested in the DIY hardware as all the other stuff was, like others have said, the same stuff over and over and over again.. it was very stale.

    It’ll be sad not to be able to check in once in a while, but if they ever come back, they won’t be getting any more money from me..!!

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/flaux1 Flaux

    To me RSC was always something like a research engine. I was able to work with rfactor, gtr2 and rbr without asking stupid questions all over the net. It was all on RSC..

    Thats something I really miss… It’s like a library takes fire and burns down.

    So I hope we are back on topic here and maybe some of you have other suggestions for a new public meeting point to build up the library again… (still hope for the RSC HD’s)

    BTW: Montoya big prop’s for virtualr. Its wonderfull to get all the daily news! Together with bsim its very powerfull in sim-racing I think. Keep it up!!!

  • http://www.srrs-racing.net/ ermax18

    Mojo, get a job (I assume you don’t have one) and build something so I can steal it! I live in my own imaginary society where I have no friends or family and make up my own rules. I also run red lights and from time to time I am more ignorant then the computer and get run over.

    You can live in your society all you want, but if you want to join forums such as RSC then you have to obey their rules. If you don’t like the rules, don’t join. If you do anyways and break the rules, then expect a ban.

    Also, even if SimBin does pass out free copies of games to forums and leagues to fight criticism and piracy, can you blame them? It is just business. What else would you expect? What would you do if you made a game and had bills to pay and a family to feed? Would you just live on the streets and pass out free copies? Wake up and join the real world!

    Do me a favor, come back and read your posts on these forums once you grow up and have responsibilities.

  • UncleChuckle

    Never ceases to amaze me in this day and age why RSC is the latest in a long line of sites to be wiped out by a hardware failure. The backup should NEVER EVER EVER be anywhere where a hardware failure will hurt it. Clearly a lot of these hosting companies are run by morons. Hard drives are the weak link in computers. I just lost my 300gb external drive and my entire iTunes library.

    Just have to wonder what sort of RAID array the hoster was running, if any. It’s like that flightsim site that got taken down recently because the main site AND the backup were on the same server and a hacker ran riot on them.

  • fpol

    Flaux: To me RSC was always something like a research engine. I was able to work with rfactor, gtr2 and rbr without asking stupid questions all over the net.

    BTW: Montoya big prop’s for virtualr. Its wonderfull to get all the daily news! Together with bsim its very powerfull in sim-racing I think. Keep it up!!!

    +1 to both comments.

    There is no single place to get all of your (user contributed) info *anywhere*. I got more from that place than I *ever* gave in donations (that’s a dig at Hoopster, and I’ll *bet* that I gave more than he did).

    I’ll remember that site for years…in their heyday, about 4 years ago, NOTHING was better for all around information, and nothing approaches that quality now. I drive many sims, and could go from GPL to GTR to RBR to a GP70 mod, to Hardware info in one place in one session and at least some of that info was from people that you had identified as very reputable contributors, not some of the flakes that can be found both on RSC and elsewhere (takes time to identify them).

    And yes props to ViR which for the past year has been the go to place for simracing info, but it is not RSC, and does not provide the same total sim racing repository. It’s a *news* blog with comment space. You will not figure out some trick for modifying your sim pit here. You will not get support for your boutique sim pedals here when the company doesn’t respond. You will not get sim tweaking info here. And that is not a fault of ViR as it’s not that type of site.

    I think it’s time to fade from the whole posting thing now. RSC was the first place i posted anywhere, so it’s a good time to stop (and regain some lost time). Only 49 people now Michael (clearly including you too btw) ;).

  • Graag

    UncleChuckle: Never ceases to amaze me in this day and age why RSC is the latest in a long line of sites to be wiped out by a hardware failure. The backup should NEVER EVER EVER be anywhere where a hardware failure will hurt it. Clearly a lot of these hosting companies are run by morons. Hard drives are the weak link in computers. I just lost my 300gb external drive and my entire iTunes library.
    Just have to wonder what sort of RAID array the hoster was running, if any. It’s like that flightsim site that got taken down recently because the main site AND the backup were on the same server and a hacker ran riot on them.

    I completely agree. I just cannot understand how this could have happened if the two servers had proper RAID-arrays. Four drives would need to fail at same time for this to happen, and that is pretty much impossible. Either the two servers had no RAID or someone really screwed up big time.

  • http://arseforums.com/phpBB/ r8response

    Hoopstar: So I wonder if I’ll get my donation credited back from RSC..??

    I’m sure you will, much like the people that bought apparel etc from Drivers Emporium, never received it and asked for a refund.

    :wink:

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Mojo66: P>Oh and BTW anyone who thinks I’m a thief should delete all my mods, thank you!

    Sorry to say, but honestly you are just making a big arse out of yourself in this thread, Mojo. And ‘MODs’ ? Come on, really… it’s called ‘Conversions’ at best. Your attempt to dignify that you apparently pirated Race On content, with an argument about everybodys right to make their own set of rules online, is just as hilarious as it is sad. Grow up dude :roll:

  • Hoopstar

    In Mojo’s defence – I wonder how many people here who are throwing stones at him have never used (or are currently using) pirated software..??!!

  • Mojo66

    Ok I know that this is not a political forum. But if some morons call me a big arse and tell me to grow up, I think it is time to give some of you who flunked school a lesson in political education. A few facts: As the smarter of you guys might have guessed from my nickname, I was born in 1966. Furthermore, I have a Diploma in Physics, and while I did some other stuff, I currently teach physics and mathematics at a local high school. Therefore I feel the responsibility to teach some of the not so smart kids here some political basics. Also, to some degree I’m a communist, and English is not my native language.

    Now, I’m making this very simple so even kids who are not so bright, like Tomas and ermax18 can follow: Capitalism means everything is owned by somebody, regardless if it is a physical object, or Intellectual Property, like a patent. If you lack the funds, you can’t acquire something. Example: you have no income, you die of starvation in capitalism.

    Communism is the opposite: everything is owned by everybody. Goods are shared among each other.

    I’m dramatically simplifying things, but those of you who are smart enough get the idea. The rest will end up beating Afghanis anyway….Also, real world countries always run a mixture of a number of systems, for example the country I live in is running so called social market economy.

    Now, although I live in a country whose political system is social market economy, that doesn’t necessarily mean that my ethics agree 100% with that system. But I try to live as much to my personal ethics as possible, without ending up in jail. This is something which some of previous commenters obviously failed to understand (however, enjoy the freedom of the internet, where even dumbasses like ermax18 can have a word).

    Now what has all of the above to do with SimBin and Race On? That’s easy: A number of people specifically mentioned on Nogrip that they only bought GTR Evo because of my GTL mod. Which means SimBin made money because of me. Now even if I would have physically stolen Race On from a shelf of a department store (which I didn’t), the net calculation would be that they owe me money.

  • quik4ever

    “So what happens when a pirate who thinks Big Developer X isn’t looking or has received my money three times is pursued for copyright infringement by Big Developer X?”

    depends on the number of lawyers he got…

    “Will they use that same moronic defense as someone who is pulled over after running a red light at a seemingly desolate intersection, only to see a cop pull out of an adjacent convenience store or alley with lights on?”

    not the same case, not the same “defense”
    if he made no money from that…

    “You can live in your society all you want, but if you want to join forums such as RSC then you have to obey their rules. If you don’t like the rules, don’t join. If you do anyways and break the rules, then expect a ban.”

    and if you are a hacker, you make the rules, so i think your system has lacks too… even if u follow the forum rules, if you speak a little bit too much they’ll ban you.
    i respect forum rules but maybe i didnt remember the rule 1.265.8313.498.7945 page 8 line 62 word 49 stating that what i just said on the 100th forum i suscribe this year was forbidden… so maybe some rules need some “work-around” or are simply outdated, world change, internet change, rules have to change to be adapted to all of that, thats what i think.
    after that, i think there is more people here that buy their games than in some other places, simbin cant complain too much, gamers that bought all simbin games could, i think, complain a little bit to get real 2009 3d engine, more cars, more variations, and some gtr2 features like weather, night etc…

    and +1 for UncleChuckle

  • Hoopstar

    Anyway.. BACK ON TOPIC..!! FFS.. :roll:

  • Satorian

    Mojo66:I currently teach physics and mathematics at a local high school. Therefore I feel the responsibility to teach some of the not so smart kids here some political basics.

    Makes sense.

    Not.

  • FS

    Looks like this Robin Hood thing doesn’t work out in the sim-community :sd:

    Anyways, I will also miss RSC just for the information that was stored there. I have a bunch of bookmarks which are now obsolete, and of course I didn’t bother to save that information myself …

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Forgot the wise words, sorry people I got carried away – “Don’t feed the troll”, lets get back on topic, R.I.P. RSC

  • Lincoln Miner

    Mojo66: @Montoya: If you think the world is either black or white, then you might call my Race On upgrade pack piracy, definitely. Fortunately the internet is still providing enough freedom (yet) so that an individual can set it’s own rules, up to a certain degree. You know, as a good citizen who is true to the capitalistic system, you might indeed say “if it’s too expensive, then don’t buy it”. But there are other colors between black and white, there are other cultures than the US and there are other systems than capitalism. Widen your mind, dude. 300 years ago, The Pope set the rules, who cares about The Pope nowadays? Anyway, I paid good money for Race 07, then paid for Evo then paid for STCC. I got all of this via Steam, so I’m stuck with it. The Race On update would have cost me €25. The full game, i.e. Race On + Race07+Evo+STCC costs €30. Therefore SimBin honors those who have supported them in the past with a mere €5 rebate. If I get Race On for free thanks to the internet, good capitalist citizens would call that piracy, I call it getting a rebate that is closer to what I would have expected. As I said, not everything in the world is either black or white. Use your brain, broaden your mind, and don’t blindly follow any rules.@TeroD: Whoever wants to run a dedicated server usually gets a free copy the SimBin game in question to do so, you just have to direct your request properly. On first glance, this seems to be a nice draw by SimBin, but it also is a nice cheap way to shut up the forums that are usually associated with those dedicated servers. *This* is the reality dude.

    Piracy and the “It’s a rip off, it should be free” mentality has become the rallying cry for too many (not all thank goodness) of the younger internet generation. People like you are like a disease. You slowly kill your host over time. Funny thing is you don’t realize you’re a disease. You think you’re the cure.

    My guess is we’ll never see you in iRacing.

  • Mikkel Gram-Hansen

    Was not an easy decision to throw in the towel, but after our host exposed us to “very bad luck” for the second time, none of us left at the helm have the time or energy to rebuild it all again. We are using the last of the donation money to buy the 2 damaged disks and plan to try having a serious data recovery company look at them. If they manage to grab the data and make things work again, we’ll up the whole shebang for everyone to use as a knowledge vault. But for now there are no plans to open RSC ever again for posting.

    It’s easy to downplay RSC of late (and not entirely unfair either) but if you have been in the scene for a few years you’ll know what RSC meant in years past so give a bit of credit to the volunteers who worked their asses off there for nearly a decade and who made RSC into a place that took simracing a few steps forward (and sorry to those who were not informed prior to this announcement, guess me and James were just too dishearted and disjointed from the crash to do things by the book.. you deserved better)

    Anyways, it’s been a great decade with RSC and I’m both proud and happy to have been a part of it all. Made friends across the globe and through RSC I have met people both online and in real life that have made a mark on me as a simracer and as a person. I would do it ALL over again if given the chance and I have no regrets about spending so much time on a hobby website ;)

    The King is dead, but long live Simracing !!

  • Mojo66

    Montoya: Like I said, I think Ferraris are way to expensive so I might just steal one. Just my way of getting a rebate..right?This has nothing to do with seeing everything black and white, it’s just a basic rule of society – Don’t steal!

    Not that I want to beat a dead horse, but this comparison is actually invalid. If you steal a Ferrari, someone is missing his Ferrari, whereas after I’m finished downloading Race On from the piratebay, nobody is missing anything.
    See, the whole discussion about piracy, theft, and copyright is totally anachronistic because the concepts that lead to the creation of coprights, patents and trademarks in the past became anachronistic in the digital age.
    Patents were introduced to protect the backyard inventor, nowadays they are the biggest asset of multi-billion companies.
    The copyright was introduced to encourage authors to share their work with the community, nowadays it is a mega-billion market.
    What is copying n bytes of data from source A to destination B? If it would be stealing, then there would be missing something somewhere. There are a lot of countries in the world where copying software or music for private use is completely legal.
    Maybe read a bit about Richard Stallman and GNU/Linux to get an idea of what freedom could mean in the digital age.

    Lincoln Miner:
    Piracy and the “It’s a rip off, it should be free” mentality has become the rallying cry for too many (not all thank goodness) of the younger internet generation.People like you are like a disease.You slowly kill your host over time.

    If you were right, then there would be no Linux. Why are thousands of programmers working on Linux? Would you blame them if they would put Microsoft out of business?
    Another stereotypical comment from a B&W person.

  • moving-target

    Where were all those guys and their aversion against piracy when GTR2 content was ripped into GTR Evo?

    Where was SimBin and THEIR code of ethics against piracy?

    GTR2 was not a SimBin owned product. 10tacle Studios and Blimey were also involved and they needed every cent out of it.

    While 10tacle Studios and Blimey were struggeling, SimBin sales were boosted by porting GTR2 stuff into GTR Evo.

    Sometimes it’s not a bad idea to stop for a second, THINK where you are going and who makes you go this direction.

    This differs us from a bunch of dumb Lemmings… at least some of us.

  • DW

    moving-target: Where were all those guys and their aversion against piracy when GTR2 content was ripped into GTR Evo?Where was SimBin and THEIR code of ethics against piracy?GTR2 was not a SimBin owned product. 10tacle Studios and Blimey were also involved and they needed every cent out of it. While 10tacle Studios and Blimey were struggeling, SimBin sales were boosted by porting GTR2 stuff into GTR Evo.Sometimes it’s not a bad idea to stop for a second, THINK where you are going and who makes you go this direction. This differs us from a bunch of dumb Lemmings… at least some of us.

    10Tacle were already bankrupt when GTR Evo came out. While I do not advocate piracy even of old titles like GTR2, the pattern of boxed PC game sales is such that sales after the first six months are not significant, so sales of what was then a two year old game at very low prices would not keep anyone afloat.

  • moving-target

    DW:
    10Tacle were already bankrupt when GTR Evo came out.While I do not advocate piracy even of old titles like GTR2, the pattern of boxed PC game sales is such that sales after the first six months are not significant, so sales of what was then a two year old game at very low prices would not keep anyone afloat.

    10Tacle still benefitted from the sales.

    Are you to judge about how much? Does it make pirating GTR2 content honorable? (I think not and there is no gain in such an argument.)

    :wink:

  • Hoopstar

    Mojo66:
    Not that I want to beat a dead horse, but this comparison is actually invalid. If you steal a Ferrari, someone is missing his Ferrari,

    See.. this is where you loose me….

    When you steal Ferrari. Someone is missing a Ferrari..

    If you “steal” software, someone is missing a sale…

    Same old same old..
    Pretty simple – it scares me that you are educating our youth of tomorrow…

  • Mojo66

    Hoopstar:
    See.. this is where you loose me….When you steal Ferrari. Someone is missing a Ferrari..If you “steal” software, someone is missing a sale…

    That’s the old MPAA/RIAA argument that has been invalidated long time ago.

    No, not everyone who pirates something would have bought the product if it wasn’t available for free. That should be obvious the second you think about it. And it is backed up by this year’s sales figures for music, films and video games, for example.
    Un fortunately I forgot where I heard the numbers, but a quick search revealed this data for the UK:

    Retail sales of singles by format

    Physical Digital Total Sales
    2002 43.9m – 43.9m
    2003 30.8m – 30.8m
    2004 26.5m 5.7m 32.2m
    2005 21.4m 26.4m 47.8m
    2006 13.9m 53.0m 66.9m
    2007 8.6m 77.9m 86.5m
    2008 4.9m 110.2m 115.1m
    2009 YTD 1.6m 116.0m 117.6m

  • Austin Powers

    You don’t have anything better to do then hijacking this tribute to RSC article Mojo?

    Crawl->Rock!

  • Hoopstar

    Mojo – thost figures prove NOTHING in your defence. What they do show is that people are using technology more in 2009 than they were in 2002. I can show you figures that track those same growth rates for mobile phones, internet usage, MP3 players or PC’s per capita players over the same period.. It’s called technology growth rate

    The fact remains, you are “offering a pirated version of Race On on your home page”.

    The interesting bit was however that because of offering a pirated version of Race On on my homepage (which is still available)

    That is theft..!! You can justify it anyway you like, but it is what it is..

    Don’t believe me? Maybe I should email Simbin and point them to your homepage and see if their lawyers agree with your defence? :lol:

    Now seriously, this is NOT the thread to continually justify it. You are embarassing yourself and pissing everyone off in the process.

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