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Stop releasing videos and release the mod

This is ridiculous, first about this mod was back when rF was released, more than 3 years ago…..

Thanks for this update guys ;)

Nice sounds!

roadkill ken: Stop releasing videos and release the mod

When you make something this comprehensive, you can talk, until then, quit your bitchin

To be honest, the physics didn’t seem that impressive…They seem to have slid into the category of modders that think the car sliding around with no grip is realistic. You can hear it in the sounds, and watch the car slide around like it is on ice just as many other “realistic” mods are. Tire physics like this have feeling at all, and just kill the driving experience for me. Since this mod has been in the work for around 3 years, I would expect their physics to be more advanced than this, but I guess I was wrong.

AaronC: To be honest, the physics didn’t seem that impressive…They seem to have slid into the category of modders that think the car sliding around with no grip is realistic.You can hear it in the sounds, and watch the car slide around like it is on ice just as many other “realistic” mods are.Tire physics like this have feeling at all, and just kill the driving experience for me.Since this mod has been in the work for around 3 years, I would expect their physics to be more advanced than this, but I guess I was wrong.

Easy there, Starsky. You’re making giant, sweeping assumptions regarding something you don’t know about yet. Be as disappointed as you like with the preview, but no pre-judging the mod.

Talk about tough crowd…
Don’t like it don’t play it when it comes out.

AaronC: To be honest, the physics didn’t seem that impressive…They seem to have slid into the category of modders that think the car sliding around with no grip is realistic. You can hear it in the sounds, and watch the car slide around like it is on ice just as many other “realistic” mods are. Tire physics like this have feeling at all, and just kill the driving experience for me. Since this mod has been in the work for around 3 years, I would expect their physics to be more advanced than this, but I guess I was wrong.

Before posting comments like that how about you spend a little time researching the car being shown.

That is the Group B Porsche 930 from 1983. Anybody that knows anything about Porsches will be aware that the 911′s of the 1980′s had a fearsome reputation for vicious oversteer. The 930 has about 450bhp on full-boost, with a locked diff, neglible downforce, 65% of the weight over the rear, and in accordance with Group B regs rear tyres were only 300mm wide. It was severly under-tyred and not a successful race car.

I have endeavored to re-create this as accurately as possible.

Any idea when this will be released? 2009, 2010 or 2011?

I don’t think that cars physics can be accurately estimated by watching videos.

Thanks for the video Alex.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6gWoUInhS8

Couldn’t have replied better racerAlexuk. The 930 was diabolical. The 956/962 family were much more user friendly for privateers, when they went on sale in ’83, take up was radically better than for the 930. Despite nearly 200 more horses it was reckoned to be easier to drive.

There’s a similar disparity in the modern DBR9 and DBRS9 Aston Martins. A driver with F1 experience for Motorsport magazine in the UK found the faster GT1 car, the DBR9 to be a relatively easy drive in which to get reasonably close to the regular professional drivers, and the much slower GT3 class DBRS9 to be unredeemed nightmare, especially on the brakes, and also under hard acceleration.

How’s the M1 shaping up Alex ?

Many thanks for the video.

AaronC: To be honest, the physics didn’t seem that impressive…They seem to have slid into the category of modders that think the car sliding around with no grip is realistic. You can hear it in the sounds, and watch the car slide around like it is on ice just as many other “realistic” mods are. Tire physics like this have feeling at all, and just kill the driving experience for me. Since this mod has been in the work for around 3 years, I would expect their physics to be more advanced than this, but I guess I was wrong.

So your being the Judge, Jury and Executioner to a mod that you haven’t even driven yet?
This car had very little grip to begain with, so there is going to be a grip issue, and if you go past that grip level it is realistic that your going to get loose.
Sounds to me that you’ve been spoon fed today’s technology…..where car’s stick like a Cat to Velcro.
God forbid you should ever have to grab a big piece of steering wheel and drive….. the result’s probably won’t be pretty.

moppenheimer:
When you make something this comprehensive, you can talk, until then, quit your bitchin

OOOOOOOh I am soooooooooooooooooo sorry your majesty.
Whats the point of releasing vids showing this and that when the mod has been about 40 milion years in the making.Instead of putting effort into making the video do some more work on the mod,

Roadkill, do you realize that recording an onboard video usually takes less than 5 minutes (compression included) and that while you’re uploading it you can do something less? We all would like to already have the mod, but it’s not how things are, so by now let’s enjoy the previews that the team decides to share (because nobody forces them to).

roadkill ken:
OOOOOOOh I am soooooooooooooooooo sorry your majesty.
Whats the point of releasing vids showing this and that when the mod has been about 40 milion years in the making.Instead of putting effort into making the video do some more work on the mod,

These people owe you nothing, and what they do give us they give selflessly. Adjust your attitude and have some God damn gratitude.

You piss me off.

ZombieJim:
These people owe you nothing, and what they do give us they give selflessly. Adjust your attitude and have some God damn gratitude.
You piss me off.

Why are other mod groups constantly put down by you bunch of tossers and VLM are the holy of holies when they constantly change their minds over the content of proto c.It may be released for rFactor 10!
I don’t give a flying fart if I piss you off.I am expressing my opinion about a mod that has been promised for years, although judging by your comments you are American and only your view must be correct.Yes they do it of their own free will and they don’t owe me a thing but they should stop the teasing and release the mod!Imagine someone promises you the best sex ever, then says not tonight , tomorrow, then the next day not tonight , tomorrow and so on and so on, thats what this mod is getting to become!

roadkill ken: Why are other mod groups constantly put down by you bunch of tossers and VLM are the holy of holies when they constantly change their minds over the content of proto c.It may be released for rFactor 10!I don’t give a flying fart if I piss you off.I am expressing my opinion about a mod that has been promised for years, although judging by your comments you are American and only your view must be correct.Yes they do it of their own free will and they don’t owe me a thing but they should stop the teasing and release the mod!

I imagine when they do release it, you will find something to piss and moan about.

Oh what a wonderful community I am part of here.
Seems like no-one can do anything right these days without a tirade of abuse being shoved their way.
Another example of biting the hand that feeds us. Genius !

Deano:
I imagine when they do release it, you will find something to piss and moan about.

On the contrary my good fellow I will be ecstatic!

F1Racer: Oh what a wonderful community I am part of here.
Seems like no-one can do anything right these days without a tirade of abuse being shoved their way.
Another example of biting the hand that feeds us.Genius !

VLM only drip feed us, we hardly have a feast from them do we!

I really can’t believe the amount of *ssholism displayed by some of the complainers here…

ok the mod is taking a while now, BUT:
1. I have enjoyed anything Virtua_LM has given us since there LM99 mod for F1 2001. I imagine most of the complainers were still in their diapers then.

2. Anything they produce is of extraordinairy quality and realism. For example, I personally think the tracks they brought out for rfactor are among the best ever. Surely Mid-ohio must be the most used track in screenshots and videos of rfactor racers and modders. Their track just make any car look good on it. Not to mention the real blast they are to drive.

So when they bring something out, it has a great future ahead of itself. I really wouldn’t call that drip feeding!

I can only hope top modding teams like Virtua_LM can take the crap of the complainers and aren’t so put of by them that they stop there hard work. I have faith they won’t though, because essentially that would be the same as braking up your self-built driveway because dogs keep pooing on it…

Just take Enduracers as a good example, releasing a mod via service packs is such a good idea. On the contrary Virtua LM began a Group C project for rfactor, added GTX5 to it and god who knows what they might add in the future? Rfactor 2 will be released somewhen in 2010, so Virtua LM will have to finish the mod and make it compatible with rfactor 2. Now we are talking about 2011 (or later) as releasedate for their mod. Not the fact that it takes so long for the mod to be released is annoying for me but the way how Virtua LM handles it as described. Updates of the W.I.P. thread on their forums haven’t been posted for ages, questions remain unanswered and people who would like to help them (like me) even don’t get an answer when you contact them via email/forum.

When talking about computer games, close deadlines have never been good thing to final products quality. For example the original release of fallout 2 was so buggy, that game could not be completed without patching it first. This happened because the game had to be made in such an short time.

I have come to understand that too short production times are always a bad thing to games quality. Same thing absolutely goes to mods which are made on free time and without any payment.

80% of all rFactor mods are pretty low quality. It takes lots of time, dedication and skill to produce a mod that goes to that top 20% of good mods. Personally I much rather wait for many years and get one great mod, than get lots of crap from the mod group.

Long time used to make the mod doesn’t necessarily mean that mod is going to be good, but if you hurry the production, the mod won’t be as good as it could be.

flowie: Just take Enduracers as a good example, releasing a mod via service packs is such a good idea. On the contrary Virtua LM began a Group C project for rfactor, added GTX5 to it and god who knows what they might add in the future? Rfactor 2 will be released somewhen in 2010, so Virtua LM will have to finish the mod and make it compatible with rfactor 2. Now we are talking about 2011 (or later) as releasedate for their mod. Not the fact that it takes so long for the mod to be released is annoying for me but the way how Virtua LM handles it as described. Updates of the W.I.P. thread on their forums haven’t been posted for ages, questions remain unanswered and people who would like to help them (like me) even don’t get an answer when you contact them via email/forum.

Exactly right, spot on

roadkill ken: VLM only drip feed us, we hardly have a feast from them do we!

What does that matter ? That doesn’t give people the right to criticise them.
They don’t even owe you a morsel. It might not have occurred to some but mod teams can go at their own pace and show what they want when they want.
It’s not up to them to conform to an end users timetable or have people from outside the group dictate to them what they can and cannot show and when.

Yes Prototype C is taking a long time, but there are many factors that are probably condusive to that. The members of the group having their own private lives is one thing. I’m sure this mod is not a small one either.
Are the models all remade from scratch or updated F1C ones ? I mean who knows why its taken 3 years. Maybe they can tell us if they want.
And sure it would be nice to know when they expect a release of the mod.
But they are not obliged to and we are no-one to demand it of them.

Of course its only natural that we are eager to get hold of this mod and try it out because we know its a biggie. But does that really give people the right to hassle the mod group in such a rude way ?
It smells of that ‘I want it and I want it now’ attitude as if there is some entitlement to the work that people do.

But don’t misunderstand me, I understand the eagerness and frustration of waiting for a mod that you’re looking forward to and it’s only natural that you would like some news of the development and especially release dates.
But there are better ways to ask than to be rude and piss of people who are giving up their free time to give us something for free. This is something that is forgotten all too often.

I’m also a long time modder as well, and I know that the “personal life” for an excuse only works for so long. CTDP has taken their sweet ass time with their 2005, and 2006 mods for rFactor, worked in their personal lifes, and has released 2 of the most complete mods ever released for rFactor at the highest quality possible. Then you take into account all of the different car models, helmet models, car and helmet skins, multiple skins for each car and helmet as well, different sounds for each car, and even the whole control center for their 2006 mod. They’ve also taken long breaks for their personal lifes over the past 3 years, and still released 2 top mods while these cars have been worked on for the whole duration of rF1 and all we have are freaking videos….?

To me something sounds off, so please elaborate more on the excuse for VirtuaLMs Junior Team for this mod? Because there is no excuse for it to of taken this long when CTDP can put out 2 mods in the same time frame that has twice the amount of content….

give them a break they release what they want and when they want all they are trying to do is do us a favor! 2005/06 cars and physics were pretty close so it wasn’t like they had to do 2 things each from scratch anyway I hope VirtuaLMs Junior Team releae the mod when it’s done or at least in quality SPs!

AaronC: I’m also a long time modder as well, and I know that the “personal life” for an excuse only works for so long. CTDP has taken their sweet ass time with their 2005, and 2006 mods for rFactor, worked in their personal lifes, and has released 2 of the most complete mods ever released for rFactor at the highest quality possible. Then you take into account all of the different car models, helmet models, car and helmet skins, multiple skins for each car and helmet as well, different sounds for each car, and even the whole control center for their 2006 mod. They’ve also taken long breaks for their personal lifes over the past 3 years, and still released 2 top mods while these cars have been worked on for the whole duration of rF1 and all we have are freaking videos….? To me something sounds off, so please elaborate more on the excuse for VirtuaLMs Junior Team for this mod? Because there is no excuse for it to of taken this long when CTDP can put out 2 mods in the same time frame that has twice the amount of content….

so two mods with 20 total carshapes is more work than the entire 1983 le mans and several dozen other models between 84 and 94? go look at the original mod for f1c, that had 3 times the work of the 06 mod, now imagine redoing every single carfrom that mod AND addng another 20 car models…….

AaronC: I’m also a long time modder as well, and I know that the “personal life” for an excuse only works for so long. CTDP has taken their sweet ass time with their 2005, and 2006 mods for rFactor, worked in their personal lifes, and has released 2 of the most complete mods ever released for rFactor at the highest quality possible. Then you take into account all of the different car models, helmet models, car and helmet skins, multiple skins for each car and helmet as well, different sounds for each car, and even the whole control center for their 2006 mod. They’ve also taken long breaks for their personal lifes over the past 3 years, and still released 2 top mods while these cars have been worked on for the whole duration of rF1 and all we have are freaking videos….? To me something sounds off, so please elaborate more on the excuse for VirtuaLMs Junior Team for this mod? Because there is no excuse for it to of taken this long when CTDP can put out 2 mods in the same time frame that has twice the amount of content….

Just so you know, the 1983 Le Mans had 26 different types of cars, that is more than both CTDP mods in 1 race…..plus skins, helmets, physics, and having to work from much less photos

moppenheimer:
Just so you know, the 1983 Le Mans had 26 different types of cars, that is more than both CTDP mods in 1 race…..plus skins, helmets, physics, and having to work from much less photos

Well, lets see here. Each F1 car has almost a different aerodynamic variation for every track that includes different wings, winglets on the sidepods, front suspension shapes, brake ducts and so on. The 2005 season had 10 different teams, 2 drivers each, so there is 20 cars right off of the bat. Then we add in all of the different aerodynamic upgrades over the course of the year and you get roughly 38 different body variations per team(which there were 10 of) between the 2 drivers. Then you add in all of the different paint schemes for the cars and helmets over the year as well. I’m already out of pinkies and toes to count on here. Now look at the 2006 season. There were 11 teams, so right off the bat you have 22 different cars because each team as 2 drivers, and then we add in the 18 different circuits that more than likely had aero updates for every one. That’s now 36 different variations per team(which there were 11 of in 2006) so don’t give me the speech about the LeMans having more cars in-game. That math there equals roughly 380 body variations in 2005 between 10 teams, and 396 in the 2006 season. I’d say CTDP had their plates allot fuller than you think.

You could easily cut those overall numbers in half if each driver on the team uses the same aero package, but that isn’t always the case. I’m just using that as a prime example that there is more to F1 than meets the eye.

AaronC:
Well, lets see here.Each F1 car has almost a different aerodynamic variation for every track that includes different wings, winglets on the sidepods, front suspension shapes, brake ducts and so on.The 2005 season had 10 different teams, 2 drivers each, so there is 20 cars right off of the bat.Then we add in all of the different aerodynamic upgrades over the course of the year and you get roughly 38 different body variations per team(which there were 10 of) between the 2 drivers.Then you add in all of the different paint schemes for the cars and helmets over the year as well.I’m already out of pinkies and toes to count on here.Now look at the 2006 season.There were 11 teams, so right off the bat you have 22 different cars because each team as 2 drivers, and then we add in the 18 different circuits that more than likely had aero updates for every one.That’s now 36 different variations per team(which there were 11 of in 2006) so don’t give me the speech about the LeMans having more cars in-game.That math there equals roughly 380 body variations in 2005 between 10 teams, and 396 in the 2006 season.I’d say CTDP had their plates allot fuller than you think.You could easily cut those overall numbers in half if each driver on the team uses the same aero package, but that isn’t always the case.I’m just using that as a prime example that there is more to F1 than meets the eye.

Well… How difficult can it really be to add these aerodynamic features? For example, if you already have one front wing properly made and you know that some other wing adds 20% more downforce, then isn’t it just copy, paste, rename and simple numbers editing and you have a new front wing?

The “fact” that CTDP has 380 body variations does not mean that all of those has been made from scratch. But i’m pretty sure that all 26 of the 1983 Le Mans cars has to be made from scratch.

Graag:
Well… How difficult can it really be to add these aerodynamic features? For example, if you already have one front wing properly made and you know that some other wing adds 20% more downforce, then isn’t it just copy, paste, rename and simple numbers editing and you have a new front wing?The “fact” that CTDP has 380 body variations does not mean that all of those has been made from scratch. But i’m pretty sure that all 26 of the 1983 Le Mans cars has to be made from scratch.

It isn’t just physics, they all have to be modeled as well. I’m not saying they are huge changes as in an entire different car, but they are still updates none-the-less, such as different front and rear wings, suspension shape, brake ducts and so on. Then each one is different per team, and sometimes per driver because not every driver has the same stuff as his team mate….There’s more work in an F1 mod than most think, but allot don’t understand that because they aren’t looking at it from a modding perspective.

heh, this is such a pointless argument.

F1Racer: heh, this is such a pointless argument.

I couldn’t agree more to be honest with you, but I’m just trying to get my point across that 2 mods with almost as much content and just as high of quality have been released in the same time frame that this single mod has been in development….

I don’t have time to argue….you can make up numbers about how complex those two mods are all you want, fact is, VLM is doing this for free, who cares how long they take…Nobody has undertaken something this large…and nobody, even you “as a long time modder”, has any idea what the circumstances are…

He is actually not “making” numbers up. And there’s nothing confirmed that the PTC mod for rF all have new, scratch-made cars. Some of them might “just” be brushed up from the F1 C version. When it’s released we will see how intensive they’ve worked. Period.

Yeah well 3 years is a long time and to be honest it makes me wonder if its really worth all that time. Any longer and rF will be old and rF2 will be taking over. Then what ? Another year to convert it or have people waited 3 years to play on an older platform.
I empathise with you but then again its not our place to dictate to people what their pace should be.
Some mod teams are smaller than others member-wise and they all have differing amounts of free time. Plus people are entitled to take breaks from it all too.

Has anyone thought of just asking VLM why it has taken so long and how far to completion they are ?
Posting a video out of the blue is a bit strange but from the reaction it seems they’d have been better off keeping a low profile intil they had something more substantial.
Either way, we cannot change the pace or the outcome so why bicker about it ?

F1Racer: Yeah well 3 years is a long time and to be honest it makes me wonder if its really worth all that time. Any longer and rF will be old and rF2 will be taking over. Then what ? Another year to convert it or have people waited 3 years to play on an older platform.I empathise with you but then again its not our place to dictate to people what their pace should be.Some mod teams are smaller than others member-wise and they all have differing amounts of free time. Plus people are entitled to take breaks from it all too.Has anyone thought of just asking VLM why it has taken so long and how far to completion they are ?Posting a video out of the blue is a bit strange but from the reaction it seems they’d have been better off keeping a low profile intil they had something more substantial.Either way, we cannot change the pace or the outcome so why bicker about it ?

as for the videos, Alex posts one every month or so, usually a lap of rouen in a different car

@bjorn, he is making up numbers, there aren’t 380 variations in the 05 mod, and there aren’t 396 in the 06 mod, you can count them yourself…for starters (even if there were graphical race by race updates for each car, which there arent) there are only half those numbers as the teams ran the same car for both drivers except on rare occasions, which im not sure occured in 05 or 06

I stand correced, the vids are more than a month apart, and all but this one have been at Mid ohio

Well no, not in 2005 mod they didn’t include upgrades – In that mod there’s only skins to count.

But I think the 2006 mod had 200+ different pieces. I wish I could find the exact number on their blog, but not right now.

I was giving you the variations from the real world stats. I know the 2005 mod doesn’t have that much, but the 2006 mod is 100% complete. If you take into account all of the different options in their control center on top of all of the variations in-game…It is massive compared to the 20 some odd cars in Prototype C. Also remember that the control center also houses lower poly models to be installed at will for lower end computers. So in theory, they even modeled every car multiple times.

AaronC: I was giving you the variations from the real world stats. I know the 2005 mod doesn’t have that much, but the 2006 mod is 100% complete. If you take into account all of the different options in their control center on top of all of the variations in-game…It is massive compared to the 20 some odd cars in Prototype C. Also remember that the control center also houses lower poly models to be installed at will for lower end computers. So in theory, they even modeled every car multiple times.

ah, well in that you are correct

26 cars from 83 alone, if you include the other years (84-94) and short/longtail versions, different aero/wing packages, it is easily just as much if not more work, plus a ton more skins and a lot less info/pictures/blueprints to work from…

I don’t know if you played the f1c mod, but it was just as extensive as CTDP’s rf mods in terms as quantity of models/skins and out of sim tools (launcher, season creator/selector)

If this comes across as me knocking ctdp (which re reading my previous it does…. ) im not, i love their mods, and have since f1c!

Alba AR2 (3 versions)
BMW M1 (2 versions)
Cougar C01B
DeCadenet Lola
Dome RC82
EMKA Aston Martin
Ford C100 (2 versions)
Grid S1
Harrier RX83C
Jaguar XJR5
Lancia LC1
Lancia LC2-83 (3 versions)
Lola T610
Mazda 717C
Mazda 727C
Nimrod NRAC2B
Porsche 911sc
Porsche 928
Porsche 930
Porsche 934
Porsche 934/5
Porsche 936C
Porsche 956 (3 versions)
Porsche 962 (2 versions)
Porsche CK5
Rondeau M378
Rondeau M379
Rondeau M379B
Rondeau M379C
Rondeau M382 (2 versions)
Rondeau M482
Sauber C6
Sauber C7
Sthemo SM01
URD C81
WM P83
WM P84

..I make that 47 models.

raceralexuk, may I ask how many models you already completed?

All the aforementioned models are in game currently being perfected.

Awesome!, but none of the later stuff then? or might that come later…..

The new content the Junior Team is making is sensational and the possibility to recreate vintage Le Mans editions, including the full field and the amazing track by VLM haunts my dreams.
However, there are a few old-school guys (like me!) who still have some nostalgia about the content that was released for F1C (so many hours of fun with those) that are still eager to have some perspective if they will be included in an initial package.
Great video, great sounds, great reflections on the dials, kind of makes me want to get my hands on one of those Group B Porsches even before their big brothers.

raceralexuk: Alba AR2 (3 versions)
BMW M1 (2 versions)
Cougar C01B
DeCadenet Lola
Dome RC82
EMKA Aston Martin
Ford C100 (2 versions)
Grid S1
Harrier RX83C
Jaguar XJR5
Lancia LC1
Lancia LC2-83 (3 versions)
Lola T610
Mazda 717C
Mazda 727C
Nimrod NRAC2B
Porsche 911sc
Porsche 928
Porsche 930
Porsche 934
Porsche 934/5
Porsche 936C
Porsche 956 (3 versions)
Porsche 962 (2 versions)
Porsche CK5
Rondeau M378
Rondeau M379
Rondeau M379B
Rondeau M379C
Rondeau M382 (2 versions)
Rondeau M482
Sauber C6
Sauber C7
Sthemo SM01
URD C81
WM P83
WM P84..I make that 47 models.

I’ve spent God only knows how many hours with the F1C mod, and painted around 40 cars. If this mod is better (and it appears to be) this will be my “benchmark” for any mods that come out later.
My opinion might be a little biased, considering I simply love this era of racing.

Many thank’s to everyone who is making this mod possible.

I really hope the physics will match the look of the cars, then this mod will be just what rfactor needs, one mod to find them all, one mod to bind them all …

raceralexuk: Alba AR2 (3 versions)
BMW M1 (2 versions)
Cougar C01B
DeCadenet Lola
Dome RC82
EMKA Aston Martin
Ford C100 (2 versions)
Grid S1
Harrier RX83C
Jaguar XJR5
Lancia LC1
Lancia LC2-83 (3 versions)
Lola T610
Mazda 717C
Mazda 727C
Nimrod NRAC2B
Porsche 911sc
Porsche 928
Porsche 930
Porsche 934
Porsche 934/5
Porsche 936C
Porsche 956 (3 versions)
Porsche 962 (2 versions)
Porsche CK5
Rondeau M378
Rondeau M379
Rondeau M379B
Rondeau M379C
Rondeau M382 (2 versions)
Rondeau M482
Sauber C6
Sauber C7
Sthemo SM01
URD C81
WM P83
WM P84..I make that 47 models.

Wow, big list!! With that being said, how many more car models are going to be added before the release? And/or are you planning on releasing service packs to add more cars down the road or will the release be a full release? Sorry for the questions, it’s just that there is hardly any solid info on this mod…….