Project CARS – Rene Rast Spa 24 Hours Preparation

Ahead of his start at the Spa Fracorchamps 24 Hours race, Rene Rast is back in his Project CARS-powered home simulator.

The quickly-rising German star driver already used Project CARS to prepare for his starts at the Le Mans 24 Hours and the Nürburgring 24 Hours and it’s safe to say that it has been working rather well as Rast narrowly missed out on the LMP2 podium at his maiden start at the French classic and clinched overall honors at the Eifel marathon.

Project CARS will be available for the PC, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Steam OS, and Wii U starting November 2014. More info can be found on the Project CARS website.

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • Birddogg66

    Nice Video! Nice Fanatec Gear! Nice Game Simulation!

  • EZehnder

    Looks great. Maybe weird FOV but hard to tell. Mostly I’m just jealous of his setup.

  • B.
    • todemanjack

      Geesh, get to your criticism, enough with all the “disclaimer BS”! Not the most likable Sim Racing video personality. Not that I’m a pCars fanboy. I have my own criticisms. Of other sims as well. So why all the critical hype against pCars? By emptybox and a few others? They have been relentless with their heavy handed criticism for years. Get a life. A real life.

      • Christopher Trees

        Matt tone has changed dramatically about pcars since it’s launch and so have many others that thought it was all show and no go… And I agree with some of his points and disagree with others. Especially regarding forza and GT comparisons. Many in both of those communities are fed up with their long time offerings and the regard the devs have for the fans. Especially regarding tracks and RACE CARS. Most people play racing games to race RACE CARS not toyota yaris’s honda fits or nissan exas.

      • todemanjack

        I know what you mean about disregard of the devs toward the fans. I just found out “custom grids” isn’t much of a priority with pCars devs?! This is alarming to me, especially since it was promised from the beginning. Custom Grids is at least 1/3 of available game play. To be fair. They do suggest they have some kind of custom race weekend for post release. But no assurance of custom grids, that I’m aware of. Isn’t that simple basic coding for a racing Sim? Like AC has? Seams really unsympathetic to the sandbox play that Ian Bell promised from the beginning. I’m I wrong?

      • Guest

        IR shills are scrambling, but they’ll fail

    • punkfest2000

      nuff said??? just another opinion from another “sim expert” which won’t make a difference to the commercial success of this game.

      • melanieuk1

        What expert.

      • EZehnder

        The funny thing is, I would only deem someone a sim racing expert if they have extensive real racing experience (in the same cars they drive virtually) and a history of sim gaming. Nic Hamilton and Rubens Barrichello are the only ones I can name off the top of my head.

    • EZehnder

      This is the cynicism of our generation in a video.

      – Don’t get excited about the real race driver involvement because every game does it. This ignores how people like Anthony Davidson clearly lied about the Codemasters F1 series (and other drivers with Forza/GT) and yet seems to actually be true about iRacing, rFactor 2 and Project CARS. His analogy about football is off base because it ignores the difference between throwing a ball and hitting a button vs. operating the exact same wheel, shifter and pedal motions in driving.

      – Don’t get excited about the selection of cars and tracks. Why? Because it doesn’t have a massive car list or a bunch of tracks other games don’t have. This ignores the community involvement and the voting that was done for number of cars and tracks desired, what car classes, what tracks people wanted, etc. There were polls, people have their say – this is the result.

      – Don’t get excited about the physics because he says so. I could clearly tell the difference between Project CARS and Assetto Corsa when AC first released. It was night and day but so was the lack of communicative FFB in AC. That has been dealt with but so have many of the tire model issues with Project CARS. I have to force myself to play Assetto Corsa as the cars aren’t engaging me as I expected them to. I look at the behavior of the Lotus T125 S1 and it leaves me shaking my head. The Formula A in Project CARS is honestly the best F1 car I’ve driven in a racing sim so far and they still have some stuff to tweak.

    • gianluca p

      I find the car/track list interesting and appealing instead. Yes there are tracks and cars already seen in other games, but it’s ok from the WMD/SMS point of view, and for a simple reason: since the game aims to become the best, then it’s better to have what we need/like in pCars and not in other games. So, yeah, Imola is everywhere and the pCars version isn’t scanned, but it doesn’t matter, because you have to consider and judge the overall package (graphics, audio, physics, ffb, multiplayer, and all the other stuff included in the game), all the contents together and not separately. And if you look at the contents of pCars in this way everything make sense as for cars and tracks, also considered that the list you know is still temporary and there is still time/space for surprises on both cars and tracks: SMS haven’t finished announcing licenses and they won’t stop after the day one release.
      That said, don’t forget that they are a small company compared to the big players (like EA) and still managed to make what seems will be the best racing game ever.

      • Chris Wright

        Very well said. It’s so much more than eye candy.

    • melanieuk1

      God that voice, does anyone really care this guy got to say, sounds like Omar Simpson on helium.

    • Rlee

      Yeah, ur just another punk who thinks he knows something. nuff said.

    • Chris Wright

      I really don’t see what Mr E.Box was getting at here. He failed to mention the recent tie up with Le Mans which is absolutely huge news, plus he just seems tired of what he considers to be disappointing “me too” new sims, which I for one find to be a gross over simplification. Well Empty, you just maybe need to take a break mate.

      Every time I race PCars, I find some new aspect within it. And I also would take issue with EB’s points about graphics. In this title you are looking at game changing visuals which actually encourage vast immersion.

      And as for drivers making lavish claims about how practicing on a sim can help with track familiarization, there is actually a very long history of this dating back to the Geoff Crammond era. The only difference these days in the level of immersion that’s possible. It is absolutely feasible that simulation is a valid training aid, otherwise why would so many top teams now have very advanced simulators of their own…

      All that being said, one thing I do agree with him on is the ridiculous number of sim racing peripheral review channels.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        I think it is quite arguable wich impact simulators have as a training aid. Some of the top drivers use them, some don’t and say it is useless. It is more that the teams try to use any given possiblity to be ahead of the competition. I doubt that racing simulations have the big impact that some of us expect, but even if it is just a minimum of profit the teams will invest.

        They can be a training tool for some of them or to simulate setup work that you can’t do on the race track because of very limited testing these days. Even racing drivers argue how valuable they are.

        I found the video of EB quite interesting. That he didn’t mention Le Mans was part of the whole video and it’s purpose. News like that are indeed big news and part of the hype. The track and the whole car package don’t do anything except hyping the sh*t out of the product currently, though nobody can say how it will turn out. He just said that it is more wise to be carefull with too high expectations to avoid disappointments. Nothing wrong with it.

      • Chris Wright

        I think you’ll find there is something of an age divide in terms of the driver attitude to simulation. It has to have some relevance, otherwise dear old Gran Turismo would not have been the source of so many talented sim racers that have gone through the Academy system to become world class drivers. iRacing has also added to that of course.

        In general, though, the primary function of computer seat time is to improve circuit familarity. This has become very important in F1, for example, where track testing is now very strictly limited.

        I agree you can overstate it, but the tendency I am seeing on here is to do the opposite. It’s basically another tool for drivers to use.

  • Traumahound

    Pretty sweet. He’s not afraid to use curbs, eh? : ) A true racer; such great lines he takes here.. Just slight corrections at times.

  • David Hughes

    They should make a boat sim next.

    • Birddogg66

      Don’t know what to make of the comment? If meant as a referencing to pCars physics your just being smart. However I do think some type of Boat Racing Simulation would be great and I would agree to that. However it was too hard for me to tell if this post was genuine?

      • David Hughes

        Both of the above – a powerboat racing sim, with all the speed, high g-forces, and mega crashes could be great fun. The Pcar physics look as though they would lend themselves well to that, which is what made me think of it.

      • punkfest2000

        Have you played the game?

      • vrasuk

        people of his calibre don’t need to play the game to realize such things. they just need to look at some youtube video to have enough evidence that a game sucks extremely. then, they go on to make their anti-eloquent statement on a site that uses a “disqus” chat function which does not even allow downvotes since crapbook lead the way.

        all in all, he just wanted to troll, birddog66 knew it and wanted to be witty, yet got served by the original troll who is just wittier, which does not make his comment any less “trolling”.

        just a normal day on a sim-racing webpage where one particular game is mentioned. oh, you all suck, by the way. the people who feel addressed by this are correct.

      • David Hughes

        I haven’t invested in the game, no. I have no vested interest in any of PCars competition either. I comment from a neutral position on what the Pcars PR department put out (directly or indirectly). The graphics look superb, (though I have also heard negative comments from those who have first hand experience). The physics look very dull (though I have also heard positive comments from those who have first hand experience).
        Unfortunately for PCars, the companies reputation and business model makes me (and others) suspicious of those positive comments, so I have to rely on my eyes and experience at this stage (which are not infallible, but the best judgement I have).

      • punkfest2000

        Then stfu

      • Birddogg66

        Well when we as members make positive comments I can say you can be fairly assured that the sentiments are genuine as we have also had members on the flip side of that as well. If I say I think the game is great in many aspects and I base this on my 12+ years of sim experience with numerous titles. I would tend to think my opinion is pretty accurate but also understand there will be those that don’t agree with me. Fair enough. Also people can’t expect it to be identical to the title that they are basing their experiences from pCARS has to be it’s own entity. As for the boat comparison without playing the game? Not really fair don’t you think?

      • Alan Dallas

        Know what I just read here? “Blah blah blah I never tried PCARS blah blah blah.”

        Your observation is invalid no matter how you try to quantify it.

      • David Hughes

        Do I need to play Need for Speed Carbon to know that the physics look unrealistic realistic? The answer is no.

        Do I need to drive an F1 car to know that the physics look realistic? The answer is no.

        There is a middle ground, where a sim looks interesting enough to think, well that might be worth a go. I’ve been doing this 25+ years and usually it disappoints, very occasionally it pleases.

        PCars, to my eye, reminds me of a boat (in relative terms), so I don’t feel the desire to try it until more work is done with the physics – IF that is even planned (doesn’t sound like it is).

      • gianluca p

        You don’t have access to the game and to the informations that we have inside the WMD portal. The devs are working constantly on the physics of the cars. And they are also working to keep improving every other aspects of the game, from audio to graphic, etc.
        The smartest way to do for a guy who can’t test the current state of things is to wait the release of a demo and try the finished product by himself. Then judge and take a decision. Unless you prefer to keep judging things only by what you see on youtube or by what you hear from other people, that maybe don’t have access to the game (just like you) or instead can test it, but don’t know how to do it properly.

      • David Hughes

        So you want this constant drip drip drip of hype without anyone being able to comment? Or only positive comments allowed – is that it? That seems to be a running theme anywhere Pcars is mentioned, almost as if it is a policy of the investors behind this project.

        So either my eyes deceive me and the physics are actually as good as the fastest responders here say they are….

        OR there are an awful lot of people actively shouting down any sign of negativity they come across on the internet, whether valid or not, because they have a vested interest in this project, or are paid to do so.

      • gianluca p

        Don’t turn the things mate, my point was clear: you have to try a thing by yourself to be able to judge it properly. How the hell can you judge the physics without trying the game in your rig and having spent a couple of hours messing aroung in the settings trying to find what is best for your driving style and graphics preferences?
        And don’t bring the argument that you can’t criticize the game, because otherwise a horde of wmd members will step in and defend it no matter what: the fact is from the wmd members point of view the guys who tell that the game is a boat simulator based only on what they see on youtube sound completely idiots. Mine was just an advise: wait. That said, do/think/say whatever you want.

      • pez2k

        To be honest, you should be prepared for derisive replies when you come out with comments about the physics being bad because you’ve watched some videos, when the people replying to you have not only played the game, but also had indepth discussions about the actual physics development with the people making it.

        You’re welcome to comment negatively, but you shouldn’t expect anything other than a rolling of eyes when you’ve never even driven a single car ingame, never mind been involved.

        As for ‘a vested interest’, the actual profits are on the console side of things – trying to convince a handful of pre-judging hardcore simracers has a worse return on investment than fishing for pennies in a well. :)

      • Birddogg66

        You really don’t have to spin this into some type of conspiracy against any negativity that emerges in these discussion.
        I think you need to give your fellow forum users a little more credit. If we were all one sided our feedback would be irrelevant in the WMD forum discussions and our influences on the development of the game would be nil.

        I don’t think good points that are made either positive or negative are discarded and ignored as long as they are constructive.
        However nonsense is met with resistance and is a normal reaction especially when being spewed by the uninformed or those who just feed us nonsense for the sake of creating back and forth debates like this.
        Whatever the case may be it really gets us nowhere as a community.

      • F1Racer

        Well said !
        This isn’t about stopping negative opinion, but if one is to offer that, at least have some experience of what you’re talking about.
        If all he is going off is videos, then his comments can’t really stand up to scrutiny.

      • David Hughes

        Half of this website is videos of what we can’t yet play. So are you are suggesting all comments from anyone, good or bad, who hasn’t actually played the thing are invalid? Seems an odd stance for a news website with a comments section.

        I’ll say it again: 25+ years of sim racing experience is enough to spot weak physics 9.5 times out of 10.

        I really hope to be back on here eating humble pie when a demo arrives, but I presume there won’t be a demo until after the shop doors are open, and the hype has been fully converted into cash.

      • F1Racer

        I think I quite clearly stated that it isn’t about stopping negative opinion. In fact I used those exact words. Not quite sure why you are failing to pick up on that.
        Constructive criticism is just fine, and from a personal point of view, I welcome it. As long as it’s not silly comments like ‘they should make a boat sim’. That’s just incitement for others to start flaming you (as has happened).
        So there is no ‘odd stance’. That’s in your head.
        But if you are going to offer any kind of criticism, at least do yourself the decency of having played the game first.

        You claim 25+ years of sim racing experience as if it was some sort of feat you should be applauded for and yet all you can manage is to make a flippant comment on a sim you havent even tried yet ?
        That doesn’t say much for your credentials.
        Not sure how you ascertain 9.5 out of 10. I think that’s a figure you pulled out of the air for yourself (like you did the the ‘half of this website is videos’ remark).

        I get the impression it’s the hype that bothers you and that SMS might actually make some money from this rather than offering some actual mature commentary based on a supposed 25 years of sim racing.

        It doesn’t matter if the demo arrives after the games release either. Everyone will still then have the opportunity to try it for free first. It’s up to the individual to avail themselves of that opportunity.

        Not sure what calibre of sim was around over 25 years ago either but there ya go.

      • gianluca p

        I guess he started playing Out Run in the Commodore 64 and became a pro playing Sega Rally, because first pc racing simulators came after 2000 (GTR in 2004).

      • F1Racer

        Well, I’m still going to class Crammonds Grand Prix as a sim even if I did use a keyboard :) It was way ahead of it’s time as were its successors. GP2,3 and 4 were so good in their time. Full car setups and you could really eek out half a tenth here and there and feel it.

      • David Hughes

        Do a google for GPL – hint : it stands for Grand Prix Legends

      • F1Racer

        If you really wanted you could have skipped the sarcasm and just said “You forgot Grand Prix Legends in 1998″ or “What about GPL ??”.
        Sometimes you can rise above it if you want.

      • gianluca p

        You said you started wih “simracing” 25+ years ago and this means in the late 80s. Ten years before GPL (that I never played and I can’t compare to GTR). I guess you started with the Sega Mega Drive or the NES. :D
        Look, you did already a very bad figure in your first post, there is no reason to make things worst. Just stop writing, nobody will notice if you’ll stop, you can do that, no need to add more words or to justify yourself, it’s too late for that, you can’t remedy to what you said initially, just stop writing, go back to Wacky Races.

      • Birddogg66

        Of Course you can only go back so far to find anything that resembles modern simulations in any kind of way. I played Mario Kart But I don’t include that into my simming experience nor do I include the old insert coin racing games. Anyway you can continue to believe what you will however I usually get an ear to ear grin when playing pCars

      • David Hughes

        The 25 years is relevant. The point is, during that time, over and over again and especially more recently with the likes of Codemasters F1 games – the terms ‘sim’ and ‘physics’ are bandied around by the Devs because they think it adds credibility to the game BUT they do not actually put the time and money into it because it is by far the hardest thing to get right. The F1 games are a disgrace physics wise and yet it was all the same kind of rhetoric and hype (if it does turn out to be that) that is coming out of the Pcars Dev’s. The video’s show no evidence to me that it is anything but hyperbole, I am admittedly very suspicious of the developers for their track record in recruiting stooges for positive PR – and therefore also a lot of the comments on this site. But I might take that advice and quiet down my drum banging until the demo arrives… I just hope others can resist the barrage of hype and make their own judgement before handing over their hard earned money because the ‘sim’ money should go to the best sims, not the best marketeers/racketeers.

      • F1Racer

        Now, all that you have said there….. isn’t that much better than just saying “they should do a boat sim” ?
        None of what you said there required you to have tried the game before passing a judgement and most of it makes sense.
        The only thing is I would not put SMS in the same category as Codemasters when it comes to making a racing sim.
        Both want their titles to financially pay off, of course, but SMS have a passion behind their work wheres I think CM were, and are, milking a lucrative licence and dumbing down a game for mass market.
        All games of this calibre are going to be hyped but even at this stage, as a big F1 fan, I would prefer pCARS to any F1 ‘sim’ Codemasters have put out thus far.
        I have spent more time in pcars in the first week or so than I have spent in all the Codemasters F1 sims put together (I didn’t buy them all but I got the first 3 as I was living in hope).
        Also when it comes to SMS I wouldn’t really describe Ben Collins and Nick Hamilton as stooges and I wouldn’t say SMS were racketeers either.

        In pCARS each car is in a different development stage. You can take one car out and it feel really good. Some have touted the Formula A for example. I have tried others and hotlapped at night or in the rain (or both) and it’s immersive as hell.
        Then I can swap cars and it feels not right at all. Maybe I chose the wrong tyres, maybe the car still is not as developed as the others. That’s the nature of game development.
        But if it all ends up where all the cars feel as polished as some of the more advanced cars we have at the moment, then I’m going to be pretty happy.
        Sure there are things that niggle me about pCARS such as the 30s replay limit and stuff, but I can pick things like that out for any sim out there.
        As with any sim, some will like it some won’t or won’t want to.
        I don’t take too much notice of the hype and prefer to judge it by what I experience at the wheel.
        If you haven’t done so yourself then perhaps it would be wiser to reserve judgement until you have had a chance to do so. RIght now, all you can gauge is how you think it feels. No amount of experience will tell you what it feels like from a video imo.

      • pez2k

        I’m not sure it’s an accurate direct comparison between Codies’ F1 games and pCARS. You’re comparing a game that only Codemasters staff and favoured journalists get to drive before release, with a game where literally thousands of players have already tried it, and are openly discussing it. SMS don’t even really have a PR department either, the people who are saying that the physics are good are the very people playing it (yes, including Rene Rast himself), rather than trained PR staff in Codies’ case.

        However, when you start talking about a ‘track record in recruiting stooges’ I start to get the impression that you’re not exactly an unbiased party here.

      • Birddogg66

        I could come up with camera angles that make Assetto Corsa look terrible but as a great percentage of people here have played Assetto Corsa they know the game play is great. However I could surly sell someone(who has never played it) on the idea it’s terrible by the looks of the video. I call that a sucker. If you want to be a sucker keep believing the negative hype. :)

      • eracerhead

        In-car camera settings (FOV, g-forces, helmet roll, etc) can have a drastic effect on the apparent ‘physics’ of the game. Unfortunately, the authors of the various videos out there do not always choose what we may consider ideal. I tone all that extra movement down on every build.

      • eracerhead

        In-car camera settings (FOV, g-forces, helmet roll, etc) can have a drastic effect on the apparent ‘physics’ of the game. Unfortunately, the authors of the various videos out there do not always choose what we may consider ideal. I leave all that extra movement out on every build.

      • Mario Strada

        There are some cars in pCARS that are still half baked. Others drive exceptionally.
        I am certainly no fanboy of pCARS or any of the other sims, but I have them all.

        In each I find lots of things to like or dislike. Often on a car by car basis. But if I hadn’t driven a sim like pCARS, I’d probably keep my opinions to myself until I had the chance to drive it and actually spend some time with it.

    • Roy Rki
    • EZehnder

      You should probably play the game before making an uneducated judgement about physics. Many of the cars drive as well or even better than cars in Assetto Corsa, iRacing and rFactor 2.

  • Silvio

    Too many bugs yet, but when it runs, it is going better each new build.
    Yesterday night I had great time with Radical at Nords.

  • Luke Walsh

    I know he’s the pro but it looks like he turns in VERY early!

  • AL_D

    Perfect demonstration how to drive NOT in a 24H race :-) Thats how they droe in the 24H race at Nürburgring…and allways the latest hardware in those videos! Doubt that he has to pay even one € for the stuff from Fanatec :-)

    • http://www.facebook.com/steve.shears.37 Steve Shears

      The 24 hour race that he won in the Audi?

    • Rlee

      I’m sorry, how many 24H races have you won? *crickets*

    • Mario Strada

      Indeed, I’ll bring the feathers you get the tar, How dares he?

  • Chris Wright

    Before this thread descends into a “he’s getting loads of free kit, so he can’t have an honest opinion” rant, anyone who has been reasonably close to pro drivers will know that they get loads of free stuff, simply because of who they are. It’s simply a perk of the job, in the same way that golfers get lots of clubs to try etc. etc. And it’s equally true that there has been a very long tradition of drivers using home PC race sims to hone their knowledge of a forthcoming circuit they may be unfamiliar with, right back to the Geoff Crammond days.

    And as the Empty Box video also referenced in this thread suggests, there are plenty of sim racing channels happily reviewing an endless, and tedious, stream of thousands upon thousands of dollars of high end, super-niche, freebie peripherals, yet these guys seem to barely attract a scintilla of criticism for their transparently obvious free equipment acquisition fetishes.

    • http://www.facebook.com/steve.shears.37 Steve Shears

      I have no idea why the latest hardware would make a difference to how the game is progressing, why a Modder would know how to drive better then Rene does or his actual point at all. Things move on – this is how its always been on the PC. The world doesn’t stop.

    • Nic Van

      I really hope he’s gotten the gear for free! Otherwise, as a professional racing driver, he surely would have opted for a servo powered wheel base. Even a 1 hour endurance race with the CWB would result in a great FFB fading. Are you reading this Fanatec??

      • Almacca

        ‘Racing driver’ does not necessarily equal ‘rich’. Or maybe he just enjoys the hobby without needing to be a wanker about it.

    • Ghoults

      I don’t think it is jealosy unless you specifically want to paint people who disagree with you in a negative light.

      Personally I don’t even care about what famous race drivers do on their spare time. Some of them are sim racers, some are gamers, some are many things and some are none. If rast finds pcars fun to spend his free time then let him have it. Some people enjoy gran turismos and forzas. Some even enjoy gran turismos, assetto corsas and iracing all the same. Doesn’t make me think anything more or less about any of those games either.

      If there is an aroma it is the annoyance about the hidden implications that somehow real driver driving some game or sim actually means anything at all. It is a tad bit funny that this site seems so eager to report about all kinds of these things related to pcars but whatever. Any hidden conspiracies about why the videos exist are all your own imagination. I don’t see anything in the video that would mean anything. I don’t care much about pcars but I still enjoyed the video.

      With that much kit I’d hope rast would try a proper sim at some point. If he wants realism he might enjoy rfactor2, ac or iracing more. But I don’t know what he wants. Maybe pcars is what he wants and I have no problem with that. Hope he keeps putting more videos. And have fun.

      • Chris Wright

        Eh?

      • Ghoults

        I just think it bizarre to say people here are jealous of rene rast because (some people assume) he gets free stuff. It sounds like an ad hominem to me. Even if the people were jealous it doesn’t disprove their opinion one bit.

        People put too much weight on these videos and take the the reactions too personally. In the end “news” like this:
        http://www.virtualr.net/project-cars-rene-rast-oschersleben-video
        do feel 100% like paid ads posted as articles on some other sites. Just because someone makes a comment along those lines doesn’t mean he is jealous…

        Also I don’t get the point at all about review sites getting freebies to be able to do video reviews and monetize them on youtube. Review sites/tubers/bloggers/magazines who buy the stuff they do reviews on are extremely rare exceptions. I know only person in the whole universe who has done it and that is barry rowland (and he does great job).

        Also it just dawned to me that pcars is probably the only sim-ish game out there that has lmp2 cars at the moment. It suddenly makes a lot more sense why he is posting only pcars stuff on his youtube channel.

      • Chris Wright

        Honestly mate I think you’re arguing with yourself. As ever, your opinion is no more or no less valid than mine or anyone else’s.

      • EZehnder

        “the annoyance about the hidden implications that somehow real driver driving some game or sim actually means anything at all.”

        It means something to me. Watching a real race driver drive the same cars they drive in real life, in the same way and putting in the same lap times is a very big deal to me. Sim racers’ opinions means absolutely nothing in comparison to real drivers. I think that only makes sense.

        “With that much kit I’d hope rast would try a proper sim at some point.”

        Sigh, and this is exactly why people get so defensive about Project CARS. It IS a proper sim.

  • gianluca p

    Have you see the last one by René?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdpyZna_7pY

    • melanieuk1

      Brilliant video, the rain and the wet weather looks so real.
      Any pc racing sim that claims to have rain or wet weather, better back it up because NONE looks as good as the weather conditions seen in Pcars NONE.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Typical “ohhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaw ggaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwdddddddd hhhhhhhypppppper graphiiiiiixxxxxxxxx” BS that EB was talking about and that you didn’t seem to understand.

        Implementing wet weather racing isn’t about gfx only. You know that? I can watch a video of a real BMW M3 in the rain if I want to be astonished just by looks of it.

      • melanieuk1

        You always seem to have a problem with me raving about other sims don’t you, if I raved about your beloved rfactor2 it wouldn’t bring you to comment every time I comment wouldn’t it, so let me ask you, why is it a problem with you, and who the hell is EB?

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        You don’t get it, that’s all. Atm even GTR2 has the better wet weather package compared to PC. If you represent the sim community I ask myself why sim developers still strife for the best possible aproximation of car physics on PCs.

        Has nothing to do with rF2. It is just that even ten year old sims get the basics right compared to so called next-gen sims.

      • melanieuk1

        Just to make you happy, WOW brilliant rain effect like previewed in 2010 and still nothing to show, and for the record, your views means nothing to me whats so ever, so you can keep jumping down me every time I make a post on virtualR
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzWNZcCIYks

      • F1Racer

        No-one will be jumping down on anyone. I`ll be keeping an eye out.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        I am not jumping on you. If you take it too offensive that someone heavily disagrees quite often with you than I am sorry for you. I could have formulated the “hyper gfx”-part a littlebit different, sorry for that, but the point still stands.

        My point is, that you are going nuts about gfx effects as if they are the most important factor while simulating rain. Rain in rF2 works without those gfx effects and proves the opposite of what you are suggesting … since four years. If the basics like physics and tyremodel work in wet conditions, it doesn’t matter how well the rain looks. Not one tiny bit. Only thing you need is a few raindrops to tell you that it is raining and the feeling for the car. Those effects are a gimmick and were not implemented because of too heavy performance impact. They will come when more potent hardware comes into play.

        My question is, how can you judge the simulation of rain in a sim based on that video and how well it is done? Because I can’t.

        Graphics is the most important marketing asepct in the gaming industry and it seems to work with you, but it won’t save you if the underlying game is just bad. Most recent example: Crytek. They created some of the best looking engines and games, but at the end all their games suffered from the same unispired gameplay except one game that was a revolution in gaming. Now they start to pay the price for it are and struggling with a crysis in the true sense of the word. Isn’t it funny? ISI has survived longer ;)

        The CM F1 games have really damn nice simulated rain. At the end the mediocre physics and FFB kill the immersion. The movement of the car just doesn’t look AND feel right.

      • ModernTimes2

        “If the basics like physics and tyremodel work in wet conditions,..”

        The Stig is pleased with the way pCARS is going in that department :) Not that it means anything to you. Another thing that doesn’t matter to you of course, is the fact that if the graphics are nice, that doesn’t automatically mean that everything else is crap.

        “If the basics like physics and tyremodel work in wet conditions, it doesn’t matter how well the rain looks. Not one tiny bit. Only thing you need is a few raindrops to tell you that it is raining ”

        How very wrong. Rain is a very significant thing in racing for two reasons. One is the altered grip. The other is that the visibility, an thus SA, is severely impacted (just look at the last LeMans 24 hr.) . This changes the whole game completely, as you struggle to see your opponents and the track in the downpour, dark and spray, while judging that grip carefully.

        I.e. for the realism of the simulation it matters a lot how the various racing conditions are represented graphically .

        It has been mentioned many times before but bears mentioning again. The physics of a simulation manifests itself trough graphics, sound and force feedback, with graphics being the most important thing. Simulations should strive for realistic graphics as well as realism in other areas.

        I might add that the rain itself, and other racing conditions, are also physical systems that manifests themselves graphically and impacts the experience. Just like the car and track and their interactions. And they all needs simulating if you want to simulate racing.
        The old “graphics doesn’t matter” is a fallacy. Good graphics is good for simulation aspects as well as making for a more enjoyable experience.

      • melanieuk1

        Thank you very much, I couldn’t have put it any better than you, with the rain effect visually rfactor2 just looks like a “boat sim” has some have called pcars the nerve of some people, just look at the video I posted, even the developers are sliding all over the place in the video, it’s as if they had taken the physics from the modding group Team Enduracers, and implemented it into rfactor2, just because “at the time” some in the community thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, low speed spin out no grip.

      • Birddogg66

        I get all my bread from Enduracers but SMS Supplies the Peanut butter and Kunos Supplies the Jelly!

      • melanieuk1
      • 5hitm4k3r666

        “Even the developers are sliding all over the place with no grip”. Yeah, even professional racing drivers do it. Big thumbs up.

      • melanieuk1

        But rFactor 2 isn’t marketed or targeting professional racing drivers they supposedly have rfactor pro for that, it suppose to be for the average gamer like you and I, no wonder it’s not selling any units with that type of low speed spin out physics, something that plagued rfactor with it’s default content, until modders came along.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        So Luciano Bacheta and Matt Neal are not professional racing drivers? Just because ISI isn’t hyping the sh*t out of involvement of professional racing drivers doesn’t mean they are a bunch of amateurs.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Sorry, but that made me love.

        “The physics of a simulation manifests itself trough graphics, sound and
        force feedback, with graphics being the most important thing.”

        Make a little experiment: turn down the graphics to a lowest minimum, so that you are still able to drive, in any game you like and after that, for a comparison switch of the FFB. Lets see what you would rather sacrifice. I know that you will tell me, that you rather drive without FFB. And who came with that statement btw? In the first talk and drive of Niels Heusinkveld with AC he turned down all his graphic settings to get optimum FPS, therfore overall better responsetime. He said that the graphical wow effect fades away after some time. Maybe you should think about the difference of meeting a mimum of visual cues (what all sims do), because a blind man will have a hrad time and “rain in PC is much better implemented than in any other game because it looks much better”. That’s a huge difference. Graphical cues are important, no question, but it is not the quality of the cues that matters more than underlying physics and FFB.

        I didn’t say that graphics and visual cues are not important. I said they are not the most important thing, that’s all.

      • ModernTimes2

        “Sorry, but that made me love.”

        Don’t be sorry for your lovin’! :-))

        Turn off the FFB? Really? Well, turn off the graphics and “see”… :-))

        Driving can be done just fine without FFB, using the visual and audio cues. Indeed that’s how sim racers did it a few years ago, and that’s how it’s done by millions of casual (and not so casual!) gamers. You don’t “lose” the physics without FFB, you get it through the other, more telling and more precise cues, and it gives you a profound feeling of what the car is doing.

        FFB is problematic in that instead of doing the correct thing it just does “something” and you have to adapt and learn to relate that to the underlying physics. Yes, FFB is getting better, but nowhere as good as graphics. It just don’t have the information content or the hardware/precision to be a main source of cues. Remember, we even still have some high end wheels and hardcore simmers that refuse to use FFB because for them it’s not simulated well enough.

        The graphics give you all the direct cues; direction of travel, speed, the track conditions, every little movement of your vehicle and your opponents WRC. FFB gives you none of that, it just fills out with some additional info of road interaction (which may even be wrong or misleading).

        Graphics is clearly the most important source of information in a racing simulation.

        That being said, I’m not giving up FFB. It’s a standard in sim racing by now, and I love it, but neither do I give up the finer graphic details that make for a believable simulation and racing experience. I’m glad to see the advances in simulation graphics that adds to the realism.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Still not an answer to my question. Would you sacrifice your FFB for better graphical quality? I am not discussing graphical cues, I hope that’s clear. You can’t drive a sim without seeing a picture.

      • ModernTimes2

        I told you that I love my FFB and that I will not sacrifice either of that or good graphics. A well rounded sim these days must cover a lot of bases.

        I just came back from a lovely drive, during which I was thinking about sim racing, One important thing about FFB wheels: they give you information in one single dimension, or one degree of freedom.

        I noticed that most of the “FFB” through the wheel came not from rotational motion of the wheel, but from two other sources; 1 – that of my body shifting around thereby making the wheel “move” with another 6 DOF and making my wheel grip feel vary a lot. 2 – vibrations and movements of the car body being felt through the grip of the wheel, and even by putting my hands on the dash, but without any rotational motion. I.e. most of the driving (non visual derived) feel in the wheel did not rely on rotational motion.

        This means that the all important FFB, and I DO believe it’s important, would ideally need to be able to move the wheel in relation to the body. That’s where I felt most of the little bumps and changes in the road. And this brings us into the field of motion cockpits., should one want the full feedback package.

        Now, a bump in a sim that runs straight across the road will not be felt in the FFB wheels we have. It would be felt through linear and angular motion of the wheel relative to your body in real life.

        Luckily, good graphics may let you spot the bump up ahead (quality in textures, mesh resolution, light, shadowing and shaders helps you out there), then the visuals will convey the physics reaction to the bump through car body movement and your body/head movement. For these visual cues, every little polygon, every bit of light, shadow, reflection and shader subtlety will give the brain more useful information to process. Like you can see practically imperceptible movement as a slight change of light on an object in real life.

        So, simulation graphics quality matters a lot, just like the rest of the sim. And a race in the rain needs darned good simulation of rain visuals to be believable and interesting. Now we’re at a point where we can get some really convincing simulation of race condition visuals. How is that not great! :)

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Yeah, FFB is simulating your seat of pants feeling. It is wierd, but when you think about it a bit more it becomes clear that our wheels are not simulating real steering wheels. Though I would argue that you can only feel one dimension through FFB. Good FFB can teel you exactly where the car is, wich tyre is on the curb and how much etc. You can get alot of positional awareness if the FFB is really good.

        You still have to make a desicion however and clearly answer my question please. FFB or better quality of graphics? That’s all what I am asking for.

        I get your point about graphical cues, but this only works up to a special point. rF2 lacked roosters tails in the first builds wich was a real problem. But at the end there is a point where additional graphical features become gimmicks and quality of graphics secondary.

        We will see how it turns out for PC. There is lots of stuff to look forward. I am most interested in like they nail the Karts for example from a physics POV as that should show what the engine is capabale of. The benchmark is very high though.

      • ModernTimes2

        Hehe, I’m not giving up either :-)) If a sim lacks in the two departments (or others) I’ll walk away. Again, I think FFB is very important, but I don’t say no tanks to stellar race condition visuals when the devs have coded it up.

        Something like better rain graphics doesn’t have to mean that the FFB can’t be better/good too though. Development wise the two are quite different, with FFB tweaks being simpler (less development resources) than a whole sub system for good rain graphics.

        Seat of the pants feeling in the FFB is good IMO. pCARS even have a SOP tweaking parameter. I like my FFB to be a bit lively, exactly to convey “more of what goes on” even with the lack of more degrees of freedom in your motion/feedback setup (which is just an FFB wheel in this context). I want some SimVibes or something like that too for the same reason.

      • melanieuk1

        Why would he want to turn down the graphics in his favorite sim, you wouldn’t turn off the HDR in your favorite sim wouldn’t you no, because it would make it look worse than it already does.
        You should leave and not comment on the project cars thread because you are been eaten alive.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        That’s not what I asked him. Read more carefully before you start name calling ;)

      • Birddogg66

        There is a nice shade tree down by the river and plenty of rocks to skip by the shore does that not sound much better then having us jump on you in disagreement?

      • F1Racer

        But then you’d have totally missed the point.
        What EB said isn’t necessarily the gospel for everybody either.
        What makes you think pCARS wet weather implementation is only graphics ? I think it’s a bit beyond that.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Ofcourse it is. I just question that Melanie can judge the implementation of rain in PC based on that single video, nor can’t she judge how well it is implemented in rF2. Let me quote her: “because NONE looks as good as the weather conditions seen in Pcars NONE.”

        And i think you will agree with me that there is much, much more to it, than just how it looks in that video. And that was one of the important points of EB’s video. Big hype based on graphics, nothing more nothing less. I am interested in PC aswell, but the graphics are the least important aspect when PC wants to b something different. If they don’t fix the physics and FFB, they will just end up as another Forza or GT clone. Same as many games end up as COD clones in the FPS business these days no matter how good they look (see my analogy in the post below).

      • F1Racer

        Firstly I think melanieuk1 was just expressing her opinion rather than being judgmental. Don’t think she deserved a reply like that imo.
        As for EB, I don’t find myself agreeing with too much of what he says and that includes any opinion that pCARS’ hype is based on graphics.
        You will find most of the ‘hype’ is from user produced videos as oppposed to any done by SMS themselves.
        Although I’m sure there are some out there that will be of the opinion that these users are somehow being looked after by SMS as usual.

      • 5hitm4k3r666

        Sorry, what Melanie said was not an opinion. She claimed it as if it is fact. Please read once again, what she actually said. It was a judgement, nothing else.

    • https://sites.google.com/site/myvracelog/project-cars/interesting-opportunity-by-ian-bell/About myvracelog

      being a race game enthusiast since atari 2600 playing night driver, the clarity of this video is astounding. Amazing how close to real look it is getting.
      missing still is the sensation of altitude and g force.
      certain real tracks i have had the pleasure to be on will actually make your stomach feel like its on a roller coaster ride. which adds to the mental and physical stress of the laps.

      • gianluca p

        gforces, world movement, camera and helmet leaning, etc. all these effetcs can be tweaked in the camera settings menu. Don’t know what settings is using René.

      • https://sites.google.com/site/myvracelog/project-cars/interesting-opportunity-by-ian-bell/About myvracelog

        it was a general comment. ( people relax)

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