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Looks wrong on soo many levels, classic cars on modern tracks, physics look terrible as does the no movement of the steering wheel, the sounds are pretty average as well. All in all it seems a lot like Race Driver: Grid, which the only fun i had with that game was crashing at le mans at 320kph for a laugh

well, GTL used modern circuits too. i see this game as GTL2 (no more, no less).

You are talking about a game that is in pre-alpha. There are only a limited number of tracks in the game so far, but I think historic tracks will be added at some point. Everything you said was bad is on quite a good level so far from my experience with it, and it can only get better from here.

Strange post, “physics look terrible”? How do they feel is the real question.
“no movement of the steering wheel”? look closer.
And for the sounds, don’t forget it’s WIP.
Have a nice day.

It’s a demo with a selection of cars and a selection of tracks. Not sure why so many people have such an issue with understanding that. I guess the playstation generation is making their [annoying] voice heard.

To me, this is actually one of the more impressive videos – hope for some feedback, if the input-lag has been fixed or not ?

To my knowledge they are still working on fixing that. The FFB has been completely redone, however, and for me at least, it feels even better than before.

Ok, thanks for the update, Rhys – I just really don’t understand how something that vital and simple, can take them that long to fix… ?

Wow, that looks good. I must admit i’ve never looked at this closely, im blinded by Rfactor. Maybe i should try this.  BUt isn’t this something that is not finished yet? I mean, still in development and all.

Looking at how the cars drive through corners looks awfully familiar to how the cars in Grid did, I know it sounds like a stupid comment but it just doesn’t look “right” no matter how many times i watch it, my opinion on it doesnt change, I mean, just look at how the classic F1 car jumped over the curbs at the chicane, that car should NOT just be able to drive away out of the chicane like it did, also where is the sliding that the classic F1 cars produced? it was like they had aero kits from an F1 car from 2009 no ’79.

It may seem like i’m hating but when i drive sims or semi-sims, i want to atleast have physics that are “believable” if you know what i mean? and these don’t look believable to any degree to me.

This is still a WIP, and just so people know and thus don’t judge the game on this build, there’s a bug in build 129 (current) that seems to have screwed up the FFB for alot of people.

But the games coming along nicely!

Have you actually played it or can you make all these comments as an “Assumption”?????  I’ve played it and the old F1 cars do drift and slide depending on how heavy your right foot is through corners.  My god, this website gets on my tits sometimes as I thought it was full of “Sim Drivers” who appreciated peoples efforts at trying to do things new and exciting.  All I’ve seen is negative comments ……. just take the rFactor 2 whinges for example.  Both titles are beta, work in progress, not finished, incomplete, not ready for release…..I’ve ran out of works to say but hopefully you will get my drift (Excuse the pun).

Just tried this latest build. have to say its pretty awesome, shits all over rfactor 2 atm 

I’ve read on the forums that the input system gets a complete overhaul. This should also fix the input lag (even more). They are working on this currently, but it takes some time.

This is all WIP. It has still more than a year to go to be released.

Stop trolling please and have a bad day.

Nice vid HDTane!

Project CARS shines in cloudy weather. :)

SMS did GTR 2. Stop spiting on them.

Their physics engine and tire model is state of the art. With some tuning Project CARS will have one of the best physics on the market.

nice trailer

I dont get any input lag. I had in in shift but i cant spot it here. there was some input lag in first builds but it was long time ago. maybe its depended on wheel you are using.

Vital yes, but how can you know how simple it will be to fix. As it is, it’s not simple, but yes, it is being fixed.

For all of those who don’t understand the little difference between rF2 beta and pCARS builds and their comparison: rF2 is already in beta state, there won’t be much changes to the game itself until release, no dramatic changed whatsoever. Anyone who thinks that the rF2 gfx will dramatically improve: lmao. They will put their time into bug fixing.
pCARS is in such an early stage, more than a year away from release, that it is just a pleasure to donwload the weekly builds just to see how the game has evolved over a single week, it is really unbelievable sometimes how fast SMS works and to experience how the game is put together piece by piece. The input lag, which I don’t experience at all, is just one thing that SMS has to work on. They have to work on models, cars, tracks, textures, UI, physics, finding investors, licensing deals, sound and so many more things. It is hard to judge the handling of the cars now, although they are much better than in any sim so far, as SMS doesn’t make the same stupid faults. If the game keeps evolving in the speed the game has gone through the last 4 month, pCARS will kick so many asses in so many ways…
The “mega hardcore super sim” crowd won’t accept anyway that all their GPLs and rFs (1, I didn’t drive 2) and iRacings weren’t realstic when it comes to driving at all.

If the handling of the cars in pCARS is “much better than in any sim so far”, then the physics on my real life actual physical cars most be all to hell, as they don’t match the handling in pCARS at all.

That’s nice for you, no rF mod or GTR did ever drive over the Nordschleife than any of the fast cars I have driven there in real life. pCARS in fact comes closest in terms of car handling and control.
Which of the pCARS race cars do you own?

In case you didn’t notice pCars is at pre-Alpha stage. It means it is not even Alpha and still faaar away from Beta. Sorry but reading your comments, seems like you think pCarrs is a finished game

I mainly agree with the point you’re trying to make, but rF2 and pCars are two different animals. rF2 is more about expandability and modding, whereas pCars will only expand via licenced content. SMS are a much larger team and they learnt their craft from ISI’s Gmotor engine.

pCars is a very beautiful game and it is much more of a sim than Shift 1&2, but it has a long way to go in the physics department to honestly place itself with rF1/2, GTR2, Race 07, iRacing and NKPro. I’m saying that it wont as SMS came from a Sim background and they know what it is Sim racers want, but business may come first.

rF2 is far from faultless at this time, but we can see where it wants to be and that fits in with most Sim racers needs.

I enjoy trying the monthly builds of pCars, but I have so far felt little improvement in physics, but as you have said yourself, it is early days for it’s development. I will continue to test pCars whilst I enjoy rF2 at the same time whilst watching the development of GTR3

I own/drive all of the Sims I’ve mentioned (well not currently running iRacing) and they all have their strengths and faults. For me personally I still feel the best physics and game overall is GTR2. GSC has fantastic physics and FFB to, but it’s content is limited (though very good).

If SMS eventually nail the physics, FFB and content once it gets to release then I will have it proudly added to my hard drive :).

Try not to be so negative with rF2. I appreciate that you don’t like or have personal issues with where it wants to go as a product, but many Sim Racers want rF2 as it’s is an evolution of something that has given us 6 years of sim racing pleasure ;).

I mainly agree with the point you’re trying to make, but rF2 and pCars are two different animals. rF2 is more about expandability and modding, whereas pCars will only expand via licenced content. SMS are a much larger team and they learnt their craft from ISI’s Gmotor engine.

pCars is a very beautiful game and it is much more of a sim than Shift 1&2, but it has a long way to go in the physics department to honestly place itself with rF1/2, GTR2, Race 07, iRacing and NKPro. I’m saying that it wont as SMS came from a Sim background and they know what it is Sim racers want, but business may come first.

rF2 is far from faultless at this time, but we can see where it wants to be and that fits in with most Sim racers needs.

I enjoy trying the monthly builds of pCars, but I have so far felt little improvement in physics, but as you have said yourself, it is early days for it’s development. I will continue to test pCars whilst I enjoy rF2 at the same time whilst watching the development of GTR3

I own/drive all of the Sims I’ve mentioned (well not currently running iRacing) and they all have their strengths and faults. For me personally I still feel the best physics and game overall is GTR2. GSC has fantastic physics and FFB to, but it’s content is limited (though very good).

If SMS eventually nail the physics, FFB and content once it gets to release then I will have it proudly added to my hard drive :).

Try not to be so negative with rF2. I appreciate that you don’t like or have personal issues with where it wants to go as a product, but many Sim Racers want rF2 as it’s is an evolution of something that has given us 6 years of sim racing pleasure ;).

I agree Steve.  I for one have had enough of it.  All we’ve had here over the past weeks is too much negativity, unappreciative comments and people personally insulting others.
The worst thing is that it’s entirely unmoderated so people are allowed to pollute this place and it be left there for us all to read.
The MAK thread is disgusting to have to read.  All down to one person too and all the comments are STILL there.

I’m going to be looking elsewhere to interact with people who maybe can appreciate the sim community a bit more and can also recognise what the words ‘pre-alpha’ and ‘beta’ mean.
Also a place where maybe the bullying and personal insults to others isn’t tolerated so freely.

I don’t own any of them of course, i’ve driven karts and many rear-wheel drive sports cars. This isn’t about specific models though – a car is simply a drive-train, and each car comes with four pieces of rubber to keep you in contact with the road. They all share this same basic principle, so they all have similar characteristics (to a lesser or greater extreme).

In my opinion pCARS does not currently get the basics right, and therefore it does not produce a good simulation of car handling. It might in the future, and i certainly hope it does.

I’m not here to bash the game either – i think everything else about pCARS is excellent, but until the general physics and handling is improved i really can’t enjoy driving it.

Thing is Kevin, it’s not even a demo.  People are criticising a pre-alpha on stuff that it doesn’t have.  Thats like criticising a house building for the place having no roof and carpets when he’s only just laid the foundations.

Can’t you just say you prefer it over rF2 instead of using that kind of language ?  You’re not in a bar trying to impress your mates now, you know.

I don’t have a problem with rF2. I have a problem with the community making curious subjective comments, and that’s where I have to leave my comment about that. The behaviour and attitude of many of the hardcore sim racers, as they like to see themselves, handicaps the development of this genre which will ultimately lead to its death.

I see it the other way round, interesting how different experiences can be. I once have driven an Porsche GT2 Turbo around the Nordschleife, and there are many scary curbs on that track. There was especially one that everyone normally just attacks for the perfect line. But not me, I was too scared to do it because I stupidly thought I could lose control of the car like in rF or GTR when I do that. I had a former professional racing driver as a co-driver who asked me in the third lap why I never hit that curb, I should just take it, nothing will happen. So next lap I tried it and… nothing happend. Full throttle and rumbling but the car ate that curb for breakfast. That’s when I first realised that “sims” are not nailing the handling (never speaking about physics). iRacing has great physics and FFB, but the handling…jesus.

Is it true that the stuttering of the controller has left off in this bulid?

Sad situation we’re in indeed… The worst is that it would be easily fixable if there was a wish from Montoya… Honestly he’s the one I don’t understand. Before creating VirtualR, he was a moderator on a big sim racing forum, so he obviously knows the ins and outs of moderation…

I mean trolls are going to be trolls, nothing we can do about that.

Look at the pCARS forum, the trolls are not tolerated anymore. Since Montoya started working for WMD, looks like VirtualR has been hosting all the unwanted people…

Try it out, no one can answer it for you. As this game is in early stages there can be problems with certain hardware configs. Just because someone doesn’t experience stuttering anymore doesn’t mean you also don’t experience it anymore.

Physics of this game are very shift like. Floating on a icy track with the finger of god keeping you on the track. Have a licence but every new build I’am dissappointed.

Way to go for the changelogs !

The trailer makes it completely obvious, SMS has the most impressive graphics engine for a car simulator of all times, bar none. It is simply jawdropping, looks even cleaner than reality !

I think I understand why so many people are mad about rF2 after seing this. They just think that because SMS was able to pull that off, that it should be the standard for every other sim around. Regardless of the ressources and structure available to the companies. Regardless of the respect each company has for the other.

It’s just a sign of the times. People are completely spoiled and out of their minds. Everything is boiling in the world today, and maybe what we feel here is the fear of the unknown by the sleepy masses… To the awakened ones : maybe what we do here is important, we’re trying to educate those poor people in fear…

Saying this game has best handling says more about your driving then the game.

Man, you keep selling doom and gloom to all that like rF2. You have a problem, not with the community, but of your own. I don’t understand your agenda. How do you know the future ?
Of course a community is all about subjectivity, we are not robots or scientifics.

Meh, silly me, I’m deluted to think I’ll ever going to change the way you think, you’re so convinced by your delusions that it’s pointless to even have a conversation with you.

Looks like you’re in a war of some kind with yourself…

Which is too bad because in the middle of your delirium, you seem to be a petrolhead that could share so much instead of hating…

Peace out man…

VirualR has, up until recently, been my favourite sim-racing news site.  Lately though I am seeing it depreciate somewhat and that is sad.
I am no innocent here.  I have been involved myself in some heated debates, particularly recently.  But I don’t call people names (unless they get personal first, then the gloves are off as far as I’m concerned), and I don’t hold grudges with anyone later.
I can have a massive argument with someone here and it might even be over something small and petty that has just escalated.  But if they make a comment I agree with on the same day, I have no hesitation hitting the ‘like’ button or telling them I agree.
I feel some of my arguments should have been stopped sooner.  It’s not healthy for either side to drone on and one spitting venom at each other.  Worse still when you know it doesn’t get anywhere. No-one is convincing anyone else to change their opinion.   If there’s one trait in a sim-racer is that he forms opinions early and quick and he’s the only one capable of changing them.  No amount of harassment or coercion from anyone else is going to do that.

As far as Montoya goes, I have much respect for the blog he has created here in VirtualR.   It takes up quite some of your personal time to keep a place like this up to date and maybe now with his job at SMS he simply doesn’t have the time to moderate this place.   I dunno.
I’m also seeing lately that some of the news posted here is something I’ve read 1 or 2 days ago on another website.  VR used to be right on top of things.    So it’s little things like that.

This is the first website I visit when I wake up each day.  But to come here and just read through all this negativity and arguments is just a downer.     Then now and again I`ll get involved and unhealthily spend hours debating with someone over something that went off topic after the first few posts.   Well, new year etc.. and I’m not going to (or at least wanting to) do that any more.
I just want to make some renders, get them posted and discuss sim-racing with people who don’t turn their nose up at everything put under it.
It’s fine to have an opinion that may not be positive, but just get it into context.  You cannot criticise a pre-alpha or beta product in the same way that you can a final.

SMS and ISI are both offering us a concept that we should be praising and jumping on.
A chance to make a difference to and/or affect the final product.  Moreso with pCARS.
With SMS you get to offer your own input that may directly affect the final product.
Find your bugs, offer your constructive criticism, suggest new features etc.    Instead of bitching about whether HDR looks pretty or not, be a part of the solution instead of the problem.
Same with rF2.  Theres a 6 months beta stage which gives us a chance to give feedback to ISI so they can make a better end product.   It’s a smart move by both companies and all I see is whinging and moaning on here.

I want the sim-community to be better than this and if that means upping sticks and moving on to a place that makes me feel more positive about my passion for sim-racing then so be it.

This is no reflection on Montoya because I consider him a friend and he’s an all round great guy.

Maybe sometime if VirtualR manages to do something about those that think nothing of insulting others and not even allow a thread like the MAK Renault 2008 one to even STILL go unmoderated, I would very much like to be a part of it again.   For now at least I feel I no longer can.  

I actually wanted to say this when I got my next 1994 F1 car renders posted (Barrichello’s Jordan in case anyone is wondering :) ) but I guess Steve’s comment prompted me to say it early.

Enjoy your sim-racing guys and maybe turn some of that negative energy into something positive.  Help out with pCARS and rF2 instead of slagging them off.  Be a part of it and make a difference instead of just looking for and picking faults.   Both of these sims are going to be good for us.  It’s not as if we have a massive amount to choose from.   We do get slim pickings.

That’s me.   Ciao.

Take a deep breath, do something else for a couple months, and when you’ll be back, CARS will be completely different and you’ll be able to forget your assumptions.

Most, but not all sims have this problem – with curbs having too little grip and causing the car to spin. It was definitely an issue in rFactor 1. In rF2 it looks like it has been fixed but we must wait for some more powerful modern open-wheeler to know for sure.
Anyway, this issue doesn’t change the fact that, in contrast to other sims, cars in pCARS feel like they were floating in the air, driven by some forces unaffected by track contact, momentum, gravity etc.
And you could read on their forums that, while it is in fact an Alpha, the tire model is basically done and we shouldn’t expect any major improvements as it’s the same tire model used int Shift 2 and it has got some limitations.

the video shows just how bad the physics are in this game. But it looks absolutely magnificent and i´m sure this game will get better in terms of physics. 

Curb affects were one of the first things i noticed the very first time i tried pCARS – and i agree that it does a good job of realistically simulating how cars behave over the curbs.

However that’s far from the only thing it has to simulate, and for me it’s simulation of weight transfer, change of direction, oversteer/understeer and how the car behaves with varying degrees of throttle and brake application just isn’t there yet.

I truely hope it will be though, in the future.

Fair enough Markus, I’m certainly not wanting to have a personal dig at you as you have a right to your opinion. Sim racers all have strong opinions of what we feel is right and wrong. I would much rather be driving a real car on a real track anyday, but as I can’t I need something to fill that void. At this point rF2 is better for that (personally speaking), but I wont be complaining if pCars converts me in the future :).

So I have something that I am very curious about regarding pCARS.  How many people can actually play the game on max settings while still getting 60+ fps consistently?  Maybe it’s a lot more people than I think, I definitely cannot.  Now I know a lot of you out there will say to just buy new hardware.  But I would think that for a lot of us, it is not that easy.  Not all of us can shell out the money for a brand new i7 and GTX580 cards (an EVGA GTX580 is still $500, which is the cost of my entire box ATM).

This is the main reason that I, personally, am enjoying rFactor 2 more than pCARS at the moment.  Yes, at max settings, pCARS looks much better, but i cannot run it at max.  So for me, rFactor 2 looks and runs much better on my hardware.

And this is where I find all of these debates kind of amusing.  This year we will have a lot of choices for racing sims, and everyone needs to just relax and pick the one that they enjoy the most and stop worrying so much about what everyone else is saying.

So I have something that I am very curious about regarding pCARS.  How many people can actually play the game on max settings while still getting 60+ fps consistently?  Maybe it’s a lot more people than I think, I definitely cannot.  Now I know a lot of you out there will say to just buy new hardware.  But I would think that for a lot of us, it is not that easy.  Not all of us can shell out the money for a brand new i7 and GTX580 cards (an EVGA GTX580 is still $500, which is the cost of my entire box ATM).

This is the main reason that I, personally, am enjoying rFactor 2 more than pCARS at the moment.  Yes, at max settings, pCARS looks much better, but i cannot run it at max.  So for me, rFactor 2 looks and runs much better on my hardware.

And this is where I find all of these debates kind of amusing.  This year we will have a lot of choices for racing sims, and everyone needs to just relax and pick the one that they enjoy the most and stop worrying so much about what everyone else is saying.

Same here with a GTX 460 pCars runs with low settings at 50fps and rFactor2 with high settings does 85/100fps.

Thanks for that ‘interesting’ help, LOL

Under the ‘stuttering of the controller’ I meant not the config. I’ve read on some forums that if you make a turn on your wheel, the game reacts much later than in rFactor, for example.

By the way, I will try out next week.

I agree the fps is a problem. Looks like pCars only loads one core of
the cpu so my quad core phenom becomes a bottle neck with 6970 gfx.

Has anyone heard if multicore cpu support/optimisation is planned??

it’s the steering lag you’re talking about. I’ve experienced that lag with shift2 and with pCARS. Earlier builds (pCARS) worked the better the higher the fps was, but still some lag with 70fps.

however with this latest build I noticed no lag while I was only having 50-60 fps. so it’s getting better.

+ looks like there’s some bug with this comment system as I wrote everything to a “reply box” and tried to reply to AdamJonas’ post

“The “mega hardcore super sim” crowd won’t accept anyway that all their
GPLs and rFs (1, I didn’t drive 2) and GTRs (SMS admits that) and
iRacings weren’t realstic when it comes to driving at all.”

What a self righteous pompous winker (sic) you are. Why dont you feck off and play that stupid tribes
game you like and stop being such a smug git.

Couldnt agree more, ppl nowadays are first looking for the bling and flash instead of whats really important. Ppl nowadays are looking for a really good looking “steak” instead of a really tasty one, wich in my expert opinion is a very very big mistake, ” Looks are important but taste is the main ingredient…!”

Hahahaha, here we go again, daftarse saying that the racing sim community will lead to the death of its genre.

Spoon!

You still feel a little floating-behaviour. But it´s a trifle compared to Shift, where cars felt like boats. pCARS developed to a better in this direction and hopefully, they will delete this floating-thing completely.

If you lower the settings to middle or minimum, it looks like rFactor 2 and will run on your computer perfectly.

Absolutely,

The more good sims we have, the more the competition should raise the bar of all of these products, not kill the genre like some dingleberry on here keeps insisting.

“…the community making curious subjective comments…” well the communitys “curious subjective comments” about rF2 are no diferent then yours about pCars, or have you not noticed it that you are assuming that pCars will do this and that … ( sincerly i hope it goes all out as i do with rF2 cause they both look amazing ) … We have a saying here, where im from, ” when we have glass roofs we shouldnt go around throwing rocks at the neighbours”

SMS (the guys who did GTR2) tire model is state of the art with grip levels calculated in real time. Every model has limitations even iRacing or LFS one’s.

I have no problem with controller input.

SMS also did GTR 2. Don’t you think it’s time to refer to something else than Shift. And for you information some liked Shift 2 even with its flaws.

You are probably an mechanical engineer or even doctor in physics to be able to see such things from this vid.

Don’t bother to reply, this is my last post to you on this subject.

unfortunatly theres alot of that going on about alot of new stuff beeing developed still … pCars, rF2 … ppl dont seem to grasp that this stuff is still beeing worked on and that they´r not finished yet, /sigh

Actually they said that they’re almost done with the brush model, they just need to turn it on.

well, if you want better physics, rF2 is the way to go, right?

Funny to see your different attitude to PCars and rF2.     Clearly you care more about looks than physics – fair enough, but you know, we’re talking sims here, not arcade racers.   

yep.   And sadly history is on the side of glitz over substance – ColinMcCrae sold whilst RBR and Mobil Rally didn’t.   F1/2010/11 sells, though it’s largely the same toss Codies have been making for 20 years whilst Papyrus went under nearly a decade ago.

Gfx are important, of course, but they lend themselves to superficiality and marketing gloss – and it works so far as sales go. Sadly.

Come back when you’ve actually tried rF2?    Sheesh.

How could anyone expect anything but “subjectivity” in the various views of any particular community?

You also imply that you are personally immune to the hazards of ‘subjectivity’.    Funny that.   Your view that your own view is less subjective than that of others is……an objective one?  lol

Aye, lol.     And apparently all because the community cares more about physics, moddability and multiplayer than shiny shiny looks…..

Mad.

I wouldn’t judge what kerbs are like from one kerb experience.

Anyway, rF1 is often rubbish on kerbs.  That’s well known, isn’t it?   I think it’s partly related to the transition from being on the ground to airborne (and back again) which is something else that rF1 was crappy at, imo.  

You are repeating this state-of-the-art nonsense at every opportunity. Can you back it up with some proof? Also GTR2 has average physics by today’s standards.

It looks fabulous.      What about an occasional free-build?     Lots of us would like to try it, but aren’t going to sign-up.  An occasional free-build would be neat.  Please?  ;)

I have lots of skepticism about the handling though.  There’s still a lot of things that look hokey – and yes, to a degree you can assess “physics” by watching a video.   We all have an excellent a priori sense of basic physics – we know what it is to fall, scrape, bounce etc.  And there’s lots of little things in every pCar vid I’ve seen which says “hokey”.   Anyway, more important is the feel, and you can’t get that from watching.  So how’s about a free-build – which might convince us doubters to get on-board?I hope the physics and feel come up to snuff because it looks generally stunning (especially the cars models themselves).

I’m not worried about the future of the physics in C.A.R.S, I’ve seen Ben Collins’ posts on the forum and so far his feedback mixed with genuine enthusiasm makes for good reading.   

And at less than £10 for monthly build releases, I’m not that bothered – I’d pay that money just to have a game looking as beautiful as this does. Of course it would be a huge bonus if it turns out to be a superb sim as well though I think SMS are doing a fine job so far. It’s clear some fundamental areas need work but with time i’m sure every aspect will improve – because regardless of what some people seem to think, a title that is less than 20% developed is not a ‘demo’, it’s not a finished product, and it’s certainly not something that should be written-off.. not even by the most experienced and self-righteous sim racers.   

I think you should try it. I like it, but that’s my opinion.
Anyway thank you for your precise and polite answer.

Classic cars on modern tracks, aka historics racing like happens all the time? Gold Cup at Oulton Park, Reunion at Laguna Seca, etc.

GTR2 is using a modified gMotor2 platform – made by ISI – if you knew just a bit about modding, you’d know that it’s really not that different from other gMotor2-titles (such as rFactor1, Race07, GT Legends and so on) – Blimey! (now SMS) just added some (really nice) features to the engine – but to call it a state of the art tyre-model… not really dude, sorry.

What is funny is that folks are defending rF2 when people criticize by saying it’s only a BETA.

Well folks who are criticizing PCars should remember that it is only an ALPHA, lol.

Really, if simracing is your passion 10 € should not be too much to take part in the only project in which you can directly communicate with the developers and express you ideas.

SMS needs the money to fund the development of pCARS and therefore it’s very unlikely you gonna see free builds until the development is completely secured.

Good to know, thanks for the input.

We still got plenty of time before CARS is released anyways…

When will they fix the massive input lag? It must be high on the list, surely?

Optimization doesn’t come until beta-level, this is common in software.

I am really hoping that is the case.  Although, Shift 2 didn’t really run very good for me either, but that was before a new video card.  As long as I can get consistently above 40 fps on medium settings I’ll be happy.

Yep, its at the top of their priority list according to Andy (pCARS dev director).
But reorganising and rescheduling threading internals takes time.

We’re not using Gmotor. The Tyre model is state of the art yes, nothing to do with ISI’s.

It’s not nonsense. We’re using the latest brush model system that generates slip curves in real time. 

So much anger around chaps. Can’t we all just get along? :)

None of the people who worked on GTR2 are at SimBin because it was made at Blimey, now SMS (our current team).

to be honest, I don’t mind Graphics being better, I like games where it just wants you to stop playing and look around, at all the detail. The game looks great as well.

also all the trailers are fan made. I don’t think SMS have released any “official” trailer yet.. letting the community decide for themselves what they want to show off about the game.

A GTX560 (200$) should do it. I’m running on a Q9550 6GB DDR2 and that card. I’ve reduced the reflections and the shadows a notch. for the rest I’m on full and I have no problems.

A free demo with some of what they’ve done so far might help them better secure funds.  

Once some type of multiplayer support come to the alpha/beta, I’ll “invest” regardless, even if it’s just to have a few nights of fun with my buddies. Lots of talk about the physics being off the mark, but I’ll have to reserve full judgement for when i try it for myself.

I can say for sure, though, that some of the cornering I’ve seen from inside the cockpit on youtube vids looks quite ludicrous, but it is an alpha, so it’s not the time to be disappointed.

Very good point, Michael… Which will become more and more true as capitalism is failing.

As we’re doomed anyways, let’s enjoy both sims while we can indeed :)

I have invested in pCARS from the beginning, but I must admit I don’t run it often. Only once at every release, just to check the advancement, but it’s just not finished enough for me to have fun. That’s why I was so happy rF2 is available, even if only in beta, because alpha (or pre-alpha) software just doesn’t have enough “gaming” features implemented.

I understand your point of vue, but maybe it could be a good idea to invest now to help them out, because eventually, you know you’ll have to buy it. But it’s now the dev need your money ;)

I dunno, the part where the F1 car gets airborne off the curb and saves it raised my eyebrows…

its only ten euros for the cheapest package! support your community! once a month builds, Thats almost free so why not? SMS deserve support!

Support the community!?  Now it’s a euphemism for “hand over some cold-hard cash”.  Hmmm. No.  :D

It’s 10€ as a one time payment, going to the movies once will cost you more.

For those 10€ you don’t just get a fresh build every month but you’ll also receive the finished title once it’s done! That’s by far the best deal in sim racing as far as I can tell, I don’t really the need to hesitate to be honest.

Sure.   And add it to the internet, the phonebill, the electric, the new wheel and pedals, the new audio interface, beer and, oh yeah….food I suppose.    

If they really want the feedback……they’d do it.  It’s not as if we’re even talking about a demo of a full game – we’re talking demo of an alpha.  Yes, a demo sort of undermines their business model.  But it wouldn’t stop people paying for their weekly updates.   A demo could easily be made – hell, even leave out the SUPERDOOPERGOLDPREMIUMPLATINUM content that’s SPESHUL  for the UBERULTRAMEMBERS or whatever…… if you must.

You’ll receive the finished product for your 10€. See it as a pre-order with the benefit of getting to enjoy the current state right away and the chance to influence the development of the title.

Again, it’s a one-time payment, I really don’t see the big deal. If you go out for a beer with your mates you´ll burn through 10€ in less than an hour. 

I really don’t see the need for a demo, how likely is it that you won’t be getting your money’s worth for just 10€? Not even speaking about the possible profit you’ll be making in the end.

If someone doesn´t try to stretch the limits forward, we will never be able to see beautiful simulations and still keep on a level of gMotor2-engine. You have graphic settings, you can configurate to your PC power available. But just because you and others don´t have high end PC to play the game at ultra settings doesn´t mean we all should play ugly games forever.

Sorry, but I disagree. Just because people liking the graphics and tend to buy games just because they are beautiful doesn´t mean everyone is failing to buy games for content reasons. And just because SMS was able to create a magic graphics engine doesn´t mean, that the developer isn´t spurred to do the same for the physics engine. You should follow the forum to see, how intense the physics staffs are working to get good results.

Not only that, but if another argument was ever needed, think about this. Making a demo from a game in alpha stage makes no sense, it would only hurt SMS as people would take that as a finished product… Look at all the fuss about rF2 beta…
Moreover, that would mean the devs should take a lot of time just for marketing purpose, that would slow down the general progress of the sim…

Come on, Sounomi, be reasonable ;)

Multiplayer features, specially those to have clean online races, and league support will be the most important part if pCARS can ever exist as a sim. Without proper multiplayer it will just be 2 weeks of fun.

I would guess their goal is to do the free demo thing AFTER release, with only paying members getting WIP stuff. Probably worse for PR to distribute a buggy unfinished demo, wouldn’t you say? Put your best foot forward.

Which iRacing car on the NTM would you say is bad on curbs? I’ve been running the SRF a lot recently and it handles curbs quite well as long as the car is balanced when you hit them. Depending on the curb it may or may not slow you down, of course. Only time I have issue on the curbs is when I’m already overcooking the corner and the curb just makes an already bad situation worse, like I suspect it should.

This particular build, for a swath of users, contains some really major FFB issues. They were toying with centering spring forces and I think it broke it. I believe build 130 (for those that can get it) already fixes this.

They’re starting to roll out some FFB, physics, and input threading fixes that are really making a big difference. Ben Collins is getting the tweaks he needs and it’s really coming together. Several big tracks in the works as well as, I believe, 3 new cars being released between this week and the next.

I’m loving the speed that they’re churning this out. You can help them fine tune the cars that are almost done, comment on the early stage cars just released, find reference data for as-yet-undecided new cars and tracks. If you come to them with the needed data for cars and tracks – it’s going in the game.

One guy even had a free license for some karting track and that’s being locked down lickity split. Very cool to see the community making so many direct contributions to a sim game that’s looking better every week.

Awesome post. Can’t wait for friday !!!

Unless Collins has some magical ability, having a pro consultant is nothing new. IRacing has done the same thing, Dale Jr, Shane Van Gisbergen, many Spec Miata drivers, IndyCar drivers, etc. Not to mention Dave Kaemmer is himself a former Skippy champion and record holder and once competed in the Rolex 24.

Driver input seems to help most at identifying general errors and those which don’t really come with tech specs. SVG has recently given feedback that the iR V8SC seems to have lower fuel consumption than in reality. The bigger question is what tools the dev team has, and whether their physics engine is capable of reproducing the real behavior of the car. No amount of driver feedback would make the Burnout game realistic without an engine rewrite.

Sure.   But no amount of arguing changes the fact that money’s too tight too mention.   I wish it were otherwise, obviously.   :D    

But moreover, a demo of some of the content as it presently stands is not going to harm subscription.  Unless the demo’s awful, of course.  But if the demo’s good, then likely subscriptions/investments would increase.  If I tried a free limited demo and loved it, I’d be more inclined to sacrifice something else, probably.  I’m surely not the only one…..

I don’t see any good reason not to release a free limited demo.     [Not that my view matters, but you know.....I can't be the only one....can I?]

Suggesting a limited demo of some recent-ish build of pCARS is unreasonable?   

hehe.  I can’t imagine why.   It isn’t as if they are giving a game away – it isn’t even a game yet.   
Bung an error report dial-home on it and a decent benchmark routine and you’ve just produced a great sales and marketing tool and grabbed a whole slew of error reports from the wild.  One might have thought……

If for some people simracing is not enough a passion that they don’t want investing 10€ in their hobby, there is no hope they will be interested by a demo…

I’ve always felt iRacing’s best feature was the multiplayer: safety rating, iRating, 12-week official series, and quality hosted servers. I’m somewhat surprised not to have heard of anything attempting to challenge that out of all the big name sims coming in 2012. Really curious why not.

Because a great many people would disagree with your opinion.

Only time will tell how C.A.R.S gets on in the multiplayer department.

Well of course people disagree, I’m curious what proportion of the community does want that though, and if it is already fully locked up in iRacing, or if it would just be too expensive to compete in that space. Hearing rF2 complaints about chaotic Renault races reminds me how good iRacing is in general, and that rF2 would likely get a good sized boost if they had a system to sift the safe drivers from the reckless ones.

I’m aware, that you are not currently using gMotor – I was referring to GTR2, which definitely did.

Please understand I’m not trying to bash you or anything, but obviously I couldn’t express myself clearly. 
There IS one very good reason not to release a free limited demo : there is not enough “gaming” material for people to enjoy in its current state. 
When you see how people react to the release of a beta software like rFactor2, imagine the publicity it would make for a pre-alpha release !
The software doesn’t have anything resembling a marketable user interface, there are no fully polished tracks, and input control and physics evolve almost every single day. 
SMS would need to invest a lot of time and ressources into producing a releasable demo… 
All that would need to be projected, and would slow down overall development of the sim in a big way, something investors I’m sure are not too keen about… And as I’m an investor myself… QED.

Again, you admitted not owning rFactor2, thus you don’t even know how it really looks and feels like… Please quit talking about things you don’t know, mate, that’s trolling.

rFactor2 IS a big step forward from gMotor2 on every level and one would have to be blind not to see it.

I have never said the physics staff isn’t working hard !

It’s funny you say not everyone is failing to buy games for content reasons, while at the same time continuously bashing rFactor2 for its ugly graphics you didn’t even try for yourself…

lol…

I had this FFB problem and solved it by changing windows options for wheel centring force. Now FFB is good for me. :)

A demo should portray the game in an almost-finished state, simply because it will be regarded by people as that. It makes no sense at all to publish a demo and say “we’re sorry if it crashes, gives graphics glitches or your FFB wheel goes funny, but since the game is in pre-alpha state that’s what you’ll get”. People playing the demo have nowhere to report any bugs, they won’t get an updated version, they have nowhere to post questions. They’ll judge the game on that single demo.

At least people who join the project know that they’ll receive an improved build after some time if they find that they cannot play the current build for whatever reason. A demo should be free from major issues, which at this point in time cannot be delivered. Hence, a demo now is not a good idea, at all.

I still don’t see any reason why not to, but plenty to do so.

No, no misunderstanding – I understand there’s no malice.  ;)

I’ve been playing games since the year dot – I played Pong in a pub (as a kid) in the 70s.  I’ve seen so many “next best things” that I’m cynical, and on top of that I’m skint, so I see a punt of £10 on an unfinished project from people with a very chequered past to be quite unattractive.A demo might change my mind……nothing else will.   

Since the game is just pre-alpha stage, you cannot release a demo at all. They are testing a lot and building up content and features. The game isn´t in any position to advertise the big mass as long as the developers are nearly satisfied with program code, physics, FFB etc. pre-alpha stage means “a base, where you build up the game”.