Project CARS – Build 432 Available

Slightly Mad Studios have released a new weekly build of their WMD-powered Project CARS simulation, adding two new cars & a major new feature to the title.

The new build introduces an early version of the Mustang Boss 302R1 and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X FQ400 to the simulation, giving WMD members two high-power road cars to play with.

Perhaps more importantly, the new build introduces a new API that opens Project CARS up to work with a variety of devices.

Using a shared memory interface, the API allows Project CARS to feed telemetry & race scoring data to a variety of devices including shift lights, motion simulators, buttkickers as well as live timing & telemetry apps on the PC and mobile devices.

Developers are very much invited to write their own Project CARS client apps, all they need is the this file that defines the data structure. A little sample project to get developers started is available as well.

Build 432 (21/3/13, Team Member+)
Render:
* Addition of planer reflection rendering. This is an alternative approach to what we have in game currently. The task is its own renderloop that reuses tasks built for the the main scene It is currently enabled in the FE.
App:
* Change required for how the cameras are setup.
Environment:
* WIP fog settings on all clear and light to heavy cloud conditions – distant haze increase during the day and a touch more haze around twilight times as that wasn’t really noticeable before.
Sun in emap setting added to overcasts, foggy and rainy conditions. This reduces the amount of sun light in reflections and ambinet convolves and is needed as a work around because cloud shadows don’t draw in emaps.
Audio:
* Evo_X AI pitch randomisation tweak
* adding Mustang AI sounds
* mustang set updated for levels and latest load curves
* Mustang engine updated with latest load curves and exhaust resonation and experimental distance DSP.
* switching on Evo X engine set plus balancing settings
* updated Evo X fdp balancing for inclusion
* Adding Mustang engine fdp (basic)
Vehicle Physics:
* Lotus 49. New tyre carcass. basiclly more twist and softer bow stiffness. Should have the effect of higher peak slip angles. very slight drop in base grip.
* Caterham Classic, and R500. New tread compounds. R500 get a more “trackday” like tire. Setup tweaks to both cars to take advantage of tire changes. Bumpsteer remove from the front suspension geometry and steering quickened.
Vehicles:
* Mitsubishi_Lancer_Evo_X_FQ400_preAlpha0.01_v1.175 – LODX WIP, fixed a few holes in cockpit.
* M3 GT4 and Boss 302R1: adjusted spawn offsets
* Mustang Boss 302R1: fixed LOD issues. No real cockpit yet, so no need for bug reports, thank you 
Tracks: 
* California_Raceway_Prealpha0.48_v1.175 -fixed missing inner collisions with trackside objects -added night skyrings -added dynamic traffic cones -added pit in and out triggers
* Volusia_circuit_Prealpha1.11_v1.175 -raised outer and inner collision walls and optimized them( they were using the render mesh before), fixed pit-in-out triggers, fixed collision issue with twall/safer wall, repathed textures
* Volusia_Prealpha1.11_v1.175 -raised outer and inner collision walls and optimized them( they were using the render mesh before), fixed pit-in-out triggers, fixed collision issue with twall/safer wall, repathed textures
* tracklights files for Belgian Forest circuit
Characters/Animations:
* crowds – updated skinning (grid girls, mechanics, marshals)
* ART – polished skinning for crowds

Build 432 is available via the Project CARS launcher that is available on the WMD Downloads Page

Click Here for Release Notes for All Builds Released During the Past Week

Build 431 (21/3/13, Senior Manager)
Render:
* AA re-work/rationalisation App-side implementation.
* AA re-work/rationalisation
- removed MLAA
- removed MSAA2/8X and associated GUI logic.
- DS9X RaceAppCore logic/setup.
* DX11 support for MSAA tonemapped downsampling and DS9X. Also DX9 support for DS9X
* Code so that we can pass in custom global matrices to shaders. Note this is different to the Rendering Matrices such as world or view or projection.
* DX11 Texture Class helpers for access to MSAA Anti-Aliasing sample counts.
* CShader inlining optimisation for draw calls
* DX11 Renderer – initialise device now requests feature level 10.1 and above.
* Display a dialogue: Video Card does not met the minimum requirements for DX 11. Switching to DX 9. if the DX10.1 or above is not available when running with -dx11
* HDRCombine new techniques for MSAA and DS9X tonemap methods added. Also Fixed LDR DS2/4/9X modes to correctly downsample.
* puddles and drying support in overlay.fx corrected
* DX11 – Pixel and Vertex shader versions bumped from 4.0 to 4.1
* fix for missing normalize of worldnormal in foliage instanced shader
Online:
*
Base:
*
SharedMemory:
* Comment fixes for SharedMemory.h
* Created shared memory manager & data structure
GUI/HUD:
* Editible HUD improvements- now takes twice as many anchor points (e.g., NNW, ENE, etc.)
* Implemented new editor control system which ‘browses’ over all the anchor points, in the same way the GUI buttons are already browsed over. (IE- No re-centering when no input)
* Improved navigation movement, using repeatDelay & repeatRate
* Created shared memory manager & data structure
* Updated Main Menu Links with DS9X mode.
Vehicle Physics:
* Lancer Evo X FQ 400: adjusted brake torques and heating
* Caterham Classic , Lotus49 – New front suspension geometries to neutralize bumpsteer. Mostly Tire rid angle and length, upper a-arm position changed on the Lotus 49.
Vehicles:
* Added Ford Mustang Boss 302R1 to vehicle list; ford_mustang_boss_302r1_prealpha0.04_v1.175 – fixed LOD issues; textured wheels and basic LOD setup; Ford Mustang Boss: Added wheel set; Fixed runtime files + added placholder liveries
* Mitsubishi Lancer added. Fixed RCF files; New ambient shadow; wheel textures update
Tracks: 
* azure coast and azure circuit skyring – textures/desaturated a bit blue and yellow channel
* Memphis_prealpha1.08_v1.175 -raised outerwalls, fixed collision issue with pitwall, repathed textures, re-did trigggers
* Heusden_Alpha1.30_v1.175 – Fence and Lod tweaks; tweaked texture to tile better; Track specific texture:circuit logo; added missing fences, marshall huts
* Belgian_Forest_Circuit_Prealpha0.71_v1.175 -fixed microgaps in old pitbuildings, refined nightskyring, added tracklights
* Delaware_Prealpha1.11_v1.175 raised outer csm walls , re-did pit in and out triggers
* Concord_circuit_Prealpha0.7_v1.175 raised outer csm walls , re-did triggers and fixed pitout collision issue
* Concord_Prealpha0.7_v1.175 raised outer csm walls , redid triggers and fixed pitout collision issue
Characters/Animations:
* ART – polished skinning for casual crowds; crowds – updated skinning
* Mitsubishi lancer EVO X fq40 0alpha1 driver animations ,limited steering ,driver setup

Build 430 (20/3/13, Senior Manager)
Online:
* Removed extra hasError redelcaration in NynpWriteBuffer
Base:
* Set up export functions
* Added GetActiveSection and GetSection accessors to gAppSection
* Updated TinyXML with optional output of symbolic characters in raw format.
GUI/Tools:
* Fixed list items to correctly add disabled entries
* Added grid layout and navigation to GUIList.
* Fixed compiler warnings and errors.
* Changed construction methods to avoid memory leaks
* Updates to GUIList to handle grid navigation and layout
Tracks: 
* fixed viewer spotlight not switching off during day at belgian Forest
Vehicle Physics:
* BMW M3 GT4: revised rear motion ratio, 4.0L engine, selection of final drive ratios.
* Lotus 49 – New tire removes the FA defualt tire. More appropriate for the Vintage F1. Borrowed the RRF-G carcass and modified from there. Created new tread compound. Tweaked the setup to take advantage. Mostly quickened the steering and softened the dampers.
* BMW M3 GT3: revised brake heating and suspension motion ratios/rates
Characters/Animations:
* ART – polished skinning for crowds (press, reporter, race official)
* crowds – updated skinning
* Pagani Huayra: feet position fix

Build 429 (19/3/13, Manager+)
Bug Fixes:
* Deleting HUD editor hrdf data on exit to fix memory leak

Build 428 (18/3/13, Senior Manager)
Render:
* Fix for missing opponents in Rear View Mirror Bug + fix for obscured mirror issue
* Applied the same early out rendermode pre-resolve to the main mesh rendering – this saves around 60% of calls the primitive rendering sequence. (On Bologna this saves ~3500 matrix multiples and eliminates more trawling through render code that will never result in a drawcall). This CL also fixes the ‘Drawn’ <ctrl s> stats which previously indicated submitted rather than actual drawn primitives
* DX11 Renderer Instance submission optimised to pre-resolve rendering mode and early out if no rendering is possible
Code:
* Renamed section type and enums to be consistent with standard naming
* Removed obsolete GetSectionType function from CSection (BAppSection GetSectionID should be used instead)
* Added assert to make sure that the tSectionType values matches the index based ones assigned to sections via CreateSection
Tracks: 
* Heusden: New industrial light flares
* Heusden: Added light flares to start bridge rear
Vehicles:
* Updated COMMON_PAINT.dds to 2:3 ratio

Project CARS is coming to the PC, Xbox 360, Playstation 3 and Wii U in 2014. More info can be found on the WMD website.

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • Alejandro Gorgal

    I’ve got a noticeable improvement in performance in this build, plus the anti-aliasing is finally starting to look really nice, love how polished things are starting to feel.

  • http://twitter.com/StarFoXySxv550 StarFoXySxv550

    Does the Evo-X in the game have any of the fancy ASM, TSM, TCM, PSM, TCS, P.S-B.S or any of the other acronyms I’ve missed to help the driver go faster?

    • Anonymous

      No, not at this point. There has been mention of getting the trick diffs working, though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.shears.37 Steve Shears

    Its coming together very well.

  • Anonymous

    433 just came out with a few fixes/updates:). the lotus 49 feels more believable now. I’m about to hop in the gt40 and give that a spin.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Markus-Ott/100000878526131 Markus Ott

    The download feels like Shift! :)

    • Anonymous

      wut

    • Anonymous

      Your message looks like trolling! :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621361738 Chris McLellan

    Most of the cars feel terrible to me, apart from the Formula B and Paganni Zonda. Which cars do you guys think are the best physics wise at the moment?

    • eifionevans

      Capri isnt bad but no where near the DRM Mod. GT2 M3 feels decent as do the Caterhams but a bit numb. The Formula B feels like a hovercraft imo Physics still have a long way to go before I’m convicned.

      • Anonymous

        See, I’m not sure comparing a new sim to how an older sim handles is all that wise. Shouldn’t the benchmark always be, how well it simulates the real car?

    • Big Ron

      Try the M3 GT, Lotus 49, Capri/ M1 Procar (with a bit too much longitudinal grip). Some cars are very decent already. You just can´t expect to get a working game from the start. A bit tweaking the settings is helpful to get it to your like (I guess you spend time to tweak settings in other games, too).

      From my point of view, feeling of the cars often depends on the setup. I mostly don´t like the basic setups. They are too forgiving and understeering. I often tweak them and get a better behavior.

    • Anonymous

      Well I think Most of them are pretty good. All of the Prototypes are real good as well as the open wheelers. Those 2 classes I feel are the best as a whole but like I said I think the most of them are good. What I find if I adjust my driving to the car the handling makes sense to me and the weight transfer in the FFB is really good.

  • Anonymous

    Why is everything unbelievably shiny? Do people even think that looks good/real :s :s :s

    • http://www.facebook.com/steve.shears.37 Steve Shears

      Because they are. They were compared to photos of cars (albeit in perfect condition) after similar questions were asked.

    • Raphael Smith

      It’s just the type of HDR used. The default HDR in the game looks nothing like that. I would say cars in the showroom look like that but yea it is a bit much for the track.

    • Big Ron

      Because the cars aren´t finished and have a basic shader to work ingame for testing. No textures, no ambient occlusion, no adapted shaders…..that´s why they are so shiny.

      • Anonymous

        Ah thanks that makes sense, just have to hope it’s toned down later!

    • Anonymous

      I always set the reflection to low for more believable look

    • Anonymous

      Because cars that are polished are shiny. Do people think that looks good/real? Yes. Thousands, actually.

      • Anonymous

        Yes because every car on the road looks freshly waxed an gleaming.

        Even cars at the start of the race do not look like that.
        Reflect your retinas out by all means!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Garrett/100001190916179 Jason Garrett

      If you don’t like the way the graphics look in the screenshots, just turn down or turn off all the extra graphical enhancements. That’s why they are there, so those who like the look can use it and those who don’t like it can turn it off.

    • Anonymous

      Well if this is this best you can come up with I think things are going really well. Your comment even almost seems like a compliment.

  • http://derekspearedesigns.com/ Derek Speare

    I’d bet it would look excellent on warp free three screens.

  • Guilherme Cramer

    For the first time since I joined I am truly enjoying driving around, and put more laps than before. The Lotus 49 does feel nice, we soon should be able to start getting tweaks on car performance, and eventually tracks. The FFB for the most part was great!

    Laptimes are far too fast compared to real life, like at the Ring and Rouen, although Rouen desperately needs adjustment on track width. And of course overall bump modelling on pretty much every track.

    • Richard Hessels

      Some more noise in the track vertex placement should do a lot to making the cars feel more alive. Now at many tracks the tarmac is still very flat.

  • GOAT

    I am so disgusted that even tho I am a junior member after the month end I am not able to use the content as the contract stated. The contract stated that weekly updates are available for team members and above and at months end all updates will be available to all members. So for now i cant upgrade so i wont put it on my pc to try. Looks pretty but…..

    • Anonymous

      first friday of the month!!!

    • pez2k .

      You do receive all monthly updates as stated. What you seem to have missed however is the big mention in the toolpack descriptions about exclusive content for Team Members and above. It’s been there since day 1.

  • Anonymous

    Can somebody tell me how I get rid of the rail connected feeling with a t500? I want to give this sim a change and everytime I read the comments carefully. There are simmers who are pleased with the physics but the way it feels on my pc I can hardly believe that any simmer would be pleased. There is a feeling of detachement like i am not totally in control of the cars.

    • Anonymous

      Have you tried ffb tweak? http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?7806-Custom-FFB-Tweaking-Files-Post-Yours-Here&highlight=ffb+tweak .I was frustrated with the ffb on my dfgt, after installing ffb tweak, it feels really good now, I can feel the road much better

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Markus-Ott/100000878526131 Markus Ott

      Somehow your comment makes not much sense.
      At first you call it a feeling like being on rails, which means you are totally connected to the road and can not get the car loose. Then you call it exactly the other way round, that you feel disconnected.
      So what?

      • Anonymous

        Read man read! I’ve never said something like loosing the car or something. My last sentence says it all. It feels like i am not totally in control. Like there is somebody reading my input and then decide to make minor adjustments. Hard to explain but I will try the descent answer that noroardanto gave me. I feel u just dont want to hear something negative about pCars and start questioning my post instead of looking for a solution.

      • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

        Samuel, he doesn’t have to look for a solution for you. But at least he answered you which means he was probably willing to try and help you. You said yourself it was hard to explain so don’t get all judgmental if someone doesn’t quite understand what you’re talking about.

      • http://www.facebook.com/steve30x Steve Farrell

        Some people think that a sim isnt real if the cars dont drive like there is no tyres on the wheels and slide everywhere.

      • Anonymous

        I agree. Cars easily sliding off the track makes a lot less sense to me than a car that bites the roads as it starts to slide. Seems in most old school sims grip washes out way too easily to be considered realistic. Also was mentioned how some feel there are hidden assists? NO! Cars start to correct themselves quite quickly with proper input from the driver in RL. Sure there is a point of no return but that is further down the road in comparison to a few sims out there. That is why I say pCARS makes sense to me as I judge from RL driving.

  • Anonymous
  • Kendra Jacobs

    —”It feels like i am not totally in control. Like there is somebody reading my input and then decide to make minor adjustments. Hard to explain but I will try the descent answer that noroardanto gave me. I feel u just dont want to hear something negative about pCars and start questioning my post instead of looking for a solution”—

    I completely agree with SamuelKorthof, whats with the feeling of having hidden aids on even when theyre all off? Why do I feel like the game is helping my line and my steering? Although there are improvements, some decently big ones, why do the physics and driving still feel so much like a regular video game rather than a simulator? Something is just not right at the base of the software engine, like even if you can loose the rear, or lock a brake or whatever, it just all still feels so video gameish, a video game with a realistic feel, but not even close to a real simulator.

    Sometimes, it feel like its trying to be a simcade – sim hybrid, rather than just a proper sim. Still so much arcadey feeling, it just doesnt stick out as much due to some half decent ffb and tire improvements, but still no where near a proper RFactor 1 mod, let alone netkar, gsc, stuff from piboso, iracing, rf2 and ac.

    Honestly I dont know why theres such a big following for this game on sim racing sites, I can understand console gamers, or even GT and Forza players, but this game has no right to be mentioned in the same breath as actual sim racing games. Actually I do know why, because marketing, graphics and all that cool factor blinds people from proper gameplay. Everyone knows darn right that if this game only had the graphics and media exposure that lets say netkar or rf2 has, than no racing sim fan would be playing this title.

    Its not far from release (I heard this November) so obviously the foundation of its physics wont change too drastically. Its much better its actually playable now, but I mean there are still a ton of resemblances from over a year ago from even Shift, no joke.

    • Anonymous

      I’m just waiting for the pack of wolves, to jump down your throat for saying that, like every other comment that post about pcars physics on VirtualR.
      Seems like more and more people this week are not happy with it’s physics engine.

    • pez2k .

      The game won’t be out in 2013, the current official estimate is early 2014. I’d personally guess there’s about 11 months left.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Markus-Ott/100000878526131 Markus Ott

      I’d like to know what video gamish locked brakes feel like, and how they should feel in a simulator? How does a video gamish lose rear feel and how does it feel in a simulator? Serious question, because it is the first time ever I heard someone make such a comparison and I never came up with that idea. I drive something and I find it realistic or unrealistic. Or is video gamish your word for unrealistic and simulator your word for realistic?
      I also find it weird that you don’t find pCARS anywhere near a real simulator. How many professional simulators have you tried out to make that statement? And why do you think pCARS must feel like any other simulator? Other simulators are not the benchmark.
      You better stick to comparisons like “the breaks don’t feel like real race car brakes” or something like that, anything else makes you just a video gamer that likes pCARS to drive and behave like other simulators.
      besides that I also feel like pCARS currently helps to be in control of the car when it becomes lose. If they don’t get rid off that I can only imagine why SMS keeps them in their game. And to some extend I agree to have them to be more realistic than other simulators. Not as challenging as other simulators, but more realistic.

      • Kendra Jacobs

        Any physics engine allows locked brakes and oversteer, that doesn’t mean the tire model and overall physics engine are proper simulators. I can get oversteer in need for speed most wanted, I can lock my brakes many console games like all codemaster f1 games, I can lock them in this crappy lemans game that I own for the dreamcast, the physics don’t magically turn sim just because you have these physics features in the game, hell I could lock the brakes for F1 World Grand Prix on Nintendo 64, so that’s a simulator now too? Ridge racer is a aim because I can slide and correct and control the rear end? I’m sorry but just because a game has certain basic functions in it’s physics doesn’t just mean it’s a sim or else just about every racing game out there is a sim.

      • Anonymous

        Well one could only hope that an individual is comfortable playing his games of choice. If you are not comfortable with the way pCARS drives play something else. Simple no one will fault you for that. On the other hand if pCARS is something that you really want to work for you and it isn’t I can understand how that may be disappointing for you. I have the same thing with R3E. I have always loved Simbin games and have always had the intention of showing my ongoing support for their works but the more and harder I try to have R3E work for me it just doesn’t. The fact that it doesn’t does bother me a little bit due to my past support of it’s development team. All I can say is for those that it is working for I hope they have much enjoyment with it and show Simbin some support for me.

      • Anonymous

        Reductio ad absurdum and a strawman in one go. Well argued, Kendra.

      • Kendra Jacobs

        Not sure if that was sarcasm, but if not, then thank you ModernTimes2

    • Alejandro Gorgal

      “Honestly I dont know why theres such a big following for this game on sim racing sites”

      There’s a number of things that factor into this, first and foremost SMS’ openness, honesty and unparalleled level of community interaction. It’s hard not to feel attached to a community when there’s such constant, almost immediate interaction with the developers.

      There’s also the fact that I believe people are often way too hard on this dev due to their personal bias (mostly related to their own impressions of the Shift series and complete inability to move ahead from that), this pushes people to have borderline trollish opinions (Im definitely not saying yours is one, in fact, I think your concerns where very well articulated) and this leads other people to counter with overblown comments and everything ends up being a big mess. It just sucks.

      The facts are:

      1-The current known release date is Q1 2013, so there’s still plenty of time to improve things.
      2-If you take a look at how the game was when the first public build was released back in November 2011 compared to what it’s like now, it’s impossible to deny there’s been a ton of improvements. Im not saying the game is perfect yet, but it’s clear it’s headed on the right direction.
      3-pCARS is not trying, and will never try to compete with the other sims in temrs of physics because on the WMD forums there’s a general agreement that you can either have cars that drive and feel like they do in other sims or you can have cars that drive and feel similar as to how they would in real life, and since we all mostly want something realistic rather than the same physics most people seem to have grown accustomed to that’s just the way things are going to be.

      pCARS is never going to be like iRacing or rF2, and that’s a good thing.
      SMS is doing their thing and if you are cool with that you are welcome to join, if you are not you are lucky enough to live in a time period where we have plenty of choice, so rejoice, everybody gets to pick their favorite thing :)

    • punkfest2000

      Cut and past Kendra Jacobs statement from last month or the month before as it’s no different, and might as well paste it onto the next PCARS post too. The kid don’t give up, it’s hilarious. Game keeps getting better in every area.

  • Noel Hibbard

    I finally had some time to give pCARS another run with the latest build. I must say it has improved drastically. I spent most of my time in the Capri at Spa. The cars still feel very much on rails but not as bad. The input lag is still EXTREME!!!!! I would love love love to see someone post a video on YouTube proving that they have zero lag. All the videos I have seen on YouTube very clearly show lag. Some videos even said they don’t have lag in the description but clearly you can see in the video that there is lag. I am starting to think that the people that claim they don’t have lag have no clue what zero lag actually means. If they could simply solve the lag problems I think pCARS has some potential. BTW, I am running on an i5-2500K with an HD5770. I have VSync off (it is evil) and have literally every graphical option turned as low as possible or turned off completely. Running 1920×1080. I have zero lag in iRacing, rF1 and rF2. I did get a fair amount of lag in AC too but didn’t spend much time trying to improve the lag in AC. I have read on the WMD forums on how to reduce lag with no luck. I guess I will push pCARS aside again and dust it off in another 6 months.

    • Anonymous

      “The input lag is still EXTREME!!!!!”

      Extreme in capital letters with three exclamation marks? Exactly how extreme is that? Input lag is not a problem anymore, it was reduced to normal levels by refactoring som code a year ago. Of course there is no such thing as zero lag, no sim on a PC can get below a few tens of milliseconds. If you really have “EXTREME!!!” lag you should post on the WMD forum where you will get help.

      Your 5770 graphics card is ancient by high end PC gaming standards, almost 4 years old now. pCARS is a next gen game due for release in perhaps a little less than a year, and it’s designed to take advantage of the newest and upcoming graphics hardware. Being in mid development it’s not optimized yet either.

      If you get very low framerates you may also get more lag than users with current graphics cards. As you say, you get “a fair amount of lag in AC”. AC is much less graphically intensive than pCARS. That ought to tell you something (about you gfx card, or your system…)

      • Noel Hibbard

        My framerate is fine. Actually, reducing the setting to the point where it no longer looks cutting edge (not even as good as rF1) and it still has just as much input lag. Shift1/2 and every build of pCARS has had tons of lag. Yes my card is old but it should at least be able to run lag free when every thing is dropped to the point it looks like crap. Again, framerates stay above 60 even without turning everything off. Everytime I point out that there is lag I get the same old, “No it doesn’t, they fixed the lag a long time ago”. Lets see you post a video of a lag free pCARS and I will post a video of my laggy pCARS and another of a lag free rF1/2.

      • Noel Hibbard

        I will point out something else to you which you may not be aware of. Hardcore simracers are typically older. My league averaged 45 years old with many in their 60s and a few in their mid 70s. They are often real life racers that are too old to race in real life anymore. They could care less about “gaming” and aren’t focused on spending $500 on the newest GPU every year to play the latest “Games”. They have a machine mostly dedicated to email and simracing. I personally like to keep my machine somewhat up to date. I don’t play games at all. Just sims… all of them. I normally buy GPUs in the $200 range and my 5770 is due to be updated. But you are going to abandon a lot of the core simracers (BTW, they don’t frequent this site or any forums for that matter) if you make a sim that can’t run lag free at least with every setting reduced to low or off. Personally if that is the direction pCARS is going to stick to then they might as well pull the plug on improving the physics and just consider it a GT5/Forza console kiddy competitor. My hunch is they will never fully replace the physics and it will go from pre-pre-alpha to release over night and still have the same physics.

      • Anonymous

        “…just consider it a GT5/Forza console kiddy competitor. My hunch is they will never fully replace the physics and it will go from pre-pre-alpha to release over night and still have the same physics.”

        Ah, more absurdities… My ill-will’o’meter does give a high reading ;-)

        At release it will run fine (good looks, low lag) on medium powered gaming rigs – heaps of people on WMD have medium gaming rigs and already run pCARS without problems, and it gets better all the time.

        If you have over 60 fps and experience “EXTREME!!!” lag, then something is wrong with your system. I wish you luck with your upcoming gfx card.

      • Noel Hibbard

        45 is elderly? Yikes that even offends me. Hahaha. I will post a video when I get back from the office tonight. You probably will not consider it extreme lag. As I said, every video on YouTube of pCARS has lag in my opinion despite the descriptions saying no lag. There are those on WMD complaining about lag though. I am not alone. I think these people are just more critical of the lag than others. Just like you have those people on every sim and game that claim they don’t have lag with VSync enabled which we all know is technically impossible. Out of curiosity what GPU are you running? Oh yeah one more thing, I don’t need new GPU to be happy. Hahaha

      • Anonymous

        Good to hear you’re happy!

        A 70 year old sim racer is elderly, I’d say. That’s hardly offensive. I’m older than your league’s average age, BTW. In my book “elder” is an honorary term.

        I’m quite sensitive to lag, and I’m one of the most outspoken proponents of low lag. I was pressuring SMS in this regard, both for S2U (which is too laggy for me) and for pCARS.

        For 60fps V-synced, the lag will be an average of max 8ms more than non 60fps non V-synced. Not really a huge amount when very few people have rigs and software that can get below several tens of ms anyway (50ms would be very good, most peoples monitors alone contribute 20-40ms in addition to those several tens of ms). Instead you will get control jitter without V-sync (as well as tearing). It’s up to everybody to decide for themselves whats’ worst.

      • Noel Hibbard

        20s are easily possible in rF2 as measured with high framerate cameras.

      • Anonymous

        I assume you mean 20ms, which is not possible to acheive. If you’re able to get a ridiculously high frame rate (requires very powerful hardware and/or low graphics detail), run without V-sync and have a low latency monitor, you can get quite low though, as in a a few tens of ms, which is good.

      • Noel Hibbard

        What I meant was in the 20s… There is a thread over on the ISI forums where input lag was measured with a highspeed camera and 26ms was achieved with a frame rate capped at 178. You would need a $6000 machine to run these sort of framerates in pCARS though. 178fps is possible in rF2 with a GTX 560. But the gfx although not bad, don’t compare to pCARS. I personally value physics and high framerates over eye candy though.

  • Noel Hibbard

    I searched for pCARS on YouTube and skimmed through the thumbnails looking for videos shot externally so you can see the real wheel in line with the animated wheel and not a single one of them was free of input lag. I challenge someone to make a video of a lag free pCARS. This is a serious problem and the longer we ignore it and pretend it isn’t there the longer it will take for pCARS to be a serious sim. It is sad because the latest builds are starting to feel much better and less on rails. I made a playlist which you can find here.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQVwUIVl3L8&list=PL2tIy1Crpc5U_PscHcepiXVYt4_oFZ_fz

    I also want to add that it feels like the FFB lags along with the video. So when you are doing fast corrections you feel sort of a backlash in the FFB, and no, this isn’t my wheel, it is the only sim that has so much backlash.

    • Mark Quigley

      I never play with the wheel visible but i did just to see.
      The lag in those vids is shocking, nothing like that here.
      I may do a vid myself.

      • Mark Quigley
      • Noel Hibbard

        That is what I call lag free. What are your specs?

      • Mark Quigley

        i5-3570k @4.2GHz
        Ram 8gb
        x2 HD7950
        Framerate capped @ 40 this build because of microstutter.

        Sure you may need beefy hardware but pCARS is not at fault at this time in its production which is what the lag argument is about.
        They do not need to fix the (EXTREME!!!) lag as there is none, I feel some may need to upgrade their hardware.

      • Noel Hibbard

        You’re saying I need to drop $600 to be lag free and lock my framerate to a ridiculous 40fps? That doesn’t really add up.

      • Mark Quigley

        By the time it is released, maybe you will, maybe you wont need new hardware. I do not care.

        I do care about misinformation, developers being told they need to fix something when there is nothing to fix.

        Yes, it may not run well on everyones hardware at this moment but when do you expect developers to look at compatibility issues, when they are still adding features or closer to release?

        Remember, this is not a product, this is not on sale.
        If you do not like the beta stage of development do not get involved and expect the world on a stick.
        I was once told when joining a game in development that all I could expect was access to a forum so I could post why the software was not working. pCARS had delivered more than this and still has a long way to go.

        As for the 40fps, it is only this build I have suffered from stuttering and doing this fixed it.
        You want good performance in a next gen title without shelling out? good luck!

      • Noel Hibbard

        Well lets hope they don’t misinform people when they release official min reqs. :)

      • Mark Quigley

        I have an q6600 @2.9GHz 4GB, 8800gt 1GB
        Quite close to minimum spec, i’ll give it a bash on that tomorrow see how things go, not too well I expect.

      • pez2k .

        The game’s gotten a lot heavier since build 71 when they were posted, with the fancy clouds, a DX11 renderer, the new tyre model, increased physics tickrate, etc. It’s not optimised yet either, so they could still be accurate again by release.

      • Noel Hibbard

        Problem solved. Was it my week GPU? Nope. Was it my machine? Nope. Capping my framerate to just 2 FPS bellow my minimum frame rate using a 3rd party tool (Dxtory) solved the lag problem. The same sort of thing happens in rF2 but in rF2 you don’t need a 3rd party tool to solve the problem you simply set it in the config file. So, enough of the misinformation crap. This is something the devs need to solve. Now, Mark, lets see your lag without using Dxtory to cap the framerate of your super computer to the same rate my decrepit 5770 is capable of running.

      • Anonymous

        Right. So finally going on WMD, after not posting there for almost one and a half year, immediately gets your problem solved. And you’re now happy with your 5770. Good.

        BTW, interesting to note that Mark runs with V-sync and 40fps and gets “no lag” as you say (yes, that’s as close to lag free as you’re likely to get with any sim and hardware). That doesn’t fit well with your various claims elsewhere in this thread. And you still demand that others shall test this and that and dig up or make videos for you. I find that rather unreasonable after the comments you’ve dropped here and having gotten the help you needed. I recommend a different approach the next time.

        Oh well, the important thing is that you’ve got it runnig to your satisfaction. Happy testing :-)

      • Noel Hibbard

        First of all we are beta testers. When we find a bug which this very clearly is, it is our responsibility to find a fix. Using Dxtory (not even a free tool, luckily I already owned it) to solve a problem with pCARS isn’t what I would call solving the problem. Solving the problem would be for the devs to address the problem in the game itself. I still would like to see what Mark’s lag looks like without using Dxtory. I don’t find this request unreasonable at all. It is called troubleshooting. If we all just run around claiming there isn’t a problem (because heaven forgive we criticize pCARS) then it will never get fixed. So you know, I am a software developer myself. I have also been on several beta teams (games/operating systems/software/iPhone Apps ect) over the past 23 years. I am currently on the internal beta team for another sim racing title. Not going to name it because it breaks my NDA. I am well aware of what it takes to spot a bug and provide useful info to devs.

        Right now I wouldn’t call it running to my satisfaction. 40fps isn’t satisfactory. But I don’t fault the game at all for that. I really don’t expect much from this 5770. Time for an upgrade. :)

      • Mark Quigley

        I’m not using Dxtory to cap FPS.
        Microstutter was introduced this build, previous I had from 60-90 fps with a few tracks dipping into the 50s but that was easy fixed by dropping shadows to medium.
        I am no longer intrested in this futile argument, it switches from one thing to the next but always the same circular routine.
        They are working on it, they are breaking things, fixing things, putting new things in, breaking things again.
        This is what happens when you develop software.
        You say you are trying to help but I find you and others very caustic in regard to pcars.
        You do know that if this project was done like others in the past, you would have agreed to an nda, you would have only one place to vent and you would not get away with what you are doing here.
        It is not that you have problems but the way you, and others put them across.
        At the end of the day, you enjoy these freedoms, it is the right way to go but please try and be fair.

        I spent a fortune just before xmass, at the start of the year everything I play took a turn for the worse except chuffing bf3 which I now detest, am I happy? nope but I do have hope.

      • Noel Hibbard

        I will quote you, “Framerate capped @ 40″. If you aren’t capping with Dxtory then what are you capping with? I see you said you are running VSync. You’re saying you are synced at 40hz? My LCD doesn’t offer 40hz as an option. If you uncap, do you end up with lag? Also, if you notice on the WMD forum there is a productive conversation going on about the lag and there are plenty of people finding that Dxtory is reducing their lag. I really don’t see how I am not being productive. Telling people they need a super computer or they will have lag isn’t at all productive. Clearly it is possible to be lag free on older GPUs. Now if the devs will find a fix of their own that would be great. If you aren’t interested in being productive here, then maybe you can share your findings over at the WMD forum.

      • Mark Quigley

        MSIafterburner.

        Don’t ask me why because I have no idea but, with the 40fps cap I get tearing and when I say tearing I mean the image splits in half horizontally over 3 screens, very very noticable. vsync fixes this. One thing frame cap does is give you rock solid frame times.

        Time limits me from fiddling with things and by the time I have anything to report, a new build has changed, fixed or broken something/everything.

        One thing that has not changed for me is the ffb, it feels like under certain circumstances two opposing forces cancel each other out and result in no ffb. Only the asano x4 feels ok.

      • Anonymous

        I agree. I see nothing like that. If the majority of WMD’ers did there would be an outcry. Seems like cherry picked videos to me.

      • Noel Hibbard

        I figured you would say that. Feel free to prove me wrong though. I wish you the best of luck. Just a tip when searching. I found searching for “pCARS g25″ or any other wheel would normally return external videos.

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.shears.37 Steve Shears

    I’m certainly feeling no major lag. The response from my wheel is the same as Rf2, AC, LFS or NKPro. Its the FFB that feels different but i’m certainly finding it no more or less difficult to drive any of them. Its certainly looks better then that video posted.

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