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That rain pic is freakin beautiful!!!
Is the guy in the video driving a Van? He really needs to lower his seat view, feels like his eyes are just under the ceiling lol.

no update on physics and FFB department?!?….the darkside is strong with this one

A lot of physics changes, especially about reexported suspension animation and adding of dynamic tire carcasses for some tires.

Every car has the same gearbox wine lolz

inb4 pCARS fanboys defending it
—–
btw this “feature” is in SMS games since GTR

Could you feel the diff carcass ?

Isn’t suspension animation… well, animation and not physics? :)
Let’s face it, the entire direction in which pCars has been heading since first public build is the opposite of rF2, rF2 cares mostly about physics and pCars about graphics..
I have pCars for 4 months now and many cars still feel really bad.

Whatever happened to maturity ? Oh well.
Btw Jordan, it’s whine not wine.

BMW Z4 GT3 and Audi A4 DTM have been worked on quite a bit. Nic Hamilton is giving feedback on the karts which are also heavily being worked on.

I hope people don’t think that one build they’re just going to have a note that says “Worked on physics, tires and FFB – game is perfect now”.

Geez…

Yeah, of course suspension and chassis movement of a car are completely unconnected from physics. Just like in real life.
You are seriously valid with your critics with this kind of statement.

I believe that the most car’s still don’t feel good and i believe if i was still testing it i don’t want like the ffb and some parts of the physic as well but the physic dev A.W. is for shure one of the best out there and he don’t wan’t stop before it feels how he expect it. Also some guy’s i’m hanging around with are impressed by the BAC Mono and it’s feeling.

You are saying pCars is about graphics and not physics but you also know they are working on and what would you like to say if the physic is as well as the graphics on the end of the developement, that rF2 is only on physics and not graphics ? That would mean your so liked and prefered title would lose ? But against what ? What is this compering about and for whom is it good or usefull. It sounds all a bit like frustration that the prefered ones don’t look so well as pCars or that pCars don’t feel like the prefered ones. But the same time they are all aming a different goal and we should be happy to have the choice. Me would like to use one of the upcomming sims and this time i can’t tell you which one it will be because no one is really ready and judgeable. Rating on the base of beta or pre-alpha as a fact is unprofessionell.

Sorry for my english.

SMS certainly do care about physics, the people they have working on them are passionate and knowledgable, and there are tons of changes every build. Not every team has its changes published in the build notes however, and the physics team is one that skips it.

I’ll also note that from the first public build to the most recent, the graphics engine has stayed pretty much the same, AA was improved, weather and fancy clouds came in. On the other hand, the tyre model has been completely rewritten, the input and FFB code has been thoroughly revised, the collision physics were entirely replaced, the basic physics engine was modified for a higher and dynamic tickrate, and there are further tyre and chassis dynamics changes on the horizon.

I think I’d make the exact opposite point to you: ISI know that graphics are their main area of improvement, while SMS know that physics are theirs. As a result rF2 gets prettier over time while pCARS gradually feels better (in my opinion of course).

Maybe one thing that is not consider in people’s impressions is the the Madness Game Engine is still a work in progess and what is sought is a level in which will be it’s base standard going forward. ISI tech has been worked on for over 20 years being upgraded along the way. This game engine has not been in existance for a big fraction of that time and has never reached a level the developers can say this is it we have it. So while there can still be some lingering questions on how this engine will evolve we should still give SMS the chance to get it to where they can lean back and smoke a cigar.

Yes I am valid, suspension animatin doesn’t have to be connected to physics in any way. A lot of rF1 mods are the opposite case, their animations totally suck but the actual forces are calculated well.

LOL. Welcome to 2013.

I get what you mean, but in a game engine, animation doesn’t affect physics, the animation system just gets its values from the physics engine for placement of animation, not the other way around. As for Osella’s complaints, I think he is just throwing around invalid complaints. He seems to think they can take texture artists and just place them in physics programming and they will know it instantly, without the years of schooling in physics programming they would need to that job. It seems a lot of people just think a game company can simply apply more resources to one part and take from another, but that is like telling a plumber to go do electrical engineering or the other way around. Neither side knows the other’s job well enough.

In the end, if he can’t tell the improvements that have been made over the past year, he must not be playing, cause I have seen huge improvements in physics on PCars over the course of the “alpha”. It may not have RF2′s level of feeling for the cars, its still far from done, and an entire new tire model is in process of implementation. I just don’t think his complaints are valid really.

You have some good points, have to say I mostly agree with you, except one thing: IMO it is not so unfair to compare those 2 sims at the momemnt because they are in fact in a similar state. ISI calls rF2 a “beta” but half of the community thinks its actually alpha because it’s far from feature complete. SMS chose the opposite way (and IMO smarter way) and call it pre-alpha, possibly to decrease amount of criticism, when a lot features are already there so in fact both titles could be called an alpha.
They both have at least 1 year before going gold, Tim from ISI indirectly suggested we shouldn’t hold our breath for 2013 release so both titles could be released in short time of each other.

Actually it’s the other way round, *since* I understand that programmers only do programming, artists do artistic things etc.I deduce that SMS has different goal than ISI because while SMS has a large army of great artists, they have rather few guys working onphysics.
At ISI there is just ONE guy who does tracks graphics IIRC, while several people working just on tyres…

That is nonsense. There weren´t any big graphics developments for the last weeks but mostly everything was about the tire model and further development. Also bug finding for physics glitches like curb spinning and collision.

Why is pCARS all about graphics? Because it looks miles better in this stage than the other sims do? Don´t blame SMS for further developing graphics but blame other developers for ignoring this department.

Since ISI and Kunos are just a small group of people, I doubt they have much more people working on the physics than SMS.

Why ISI and Kunos have a better developed physics engine? Because they use their previous generation and base their further development on them while SMS starts it´s physics development engine from scratch in some points.

I understand your point and this time i don’t care about the status of any of them. While i can’t use or test the one, i don’t want to use or test the other. There is nothing what can motivate me to do different. I’m tired to use a beta or pre-alpha software and invest my time for nothing different than dealing with issues and nobody listens to what one have to say if the name is not known by the public. At the end the developer’s are doing all what they think is right. My time will come anyday when I will judge each one as a final product but this time they aren’t finally judgeable and comperable. If anybody will be intrested in what i have to say or not is not important and couldn’t stop me to do so even if it is to compare and rate the final products for my self. That is what you can do and our right is to do but this time we should have some respect for the business and not going to kill a product before it is fine and final. They should know for himself If all the promises they made are not to see in the final product it could be riskfull for the future of there products. No need to criticise a WIP product in the public this time.

If anybody would like to change something and believe someone is listening to, he/she should made there points on the right place. If it is the ISI forum or the WMD forum but virtualR is not the right place imho.

You know i’m not a part of the WMD anymore and my showdown was final but i will never going to lose my face with some disrespectfull acts in the public. People act how they act only because of what they get promised but still are waiting for some parts of it. May the most important parts of the software.

A pre-alpha and beta thing can safe for some time and is usefull as a shild but not forever. Anyday it will be final and nobody will be reserved. I hope everything goes well until the release and everybody get’s what they expect.

Lots of good stuff coming up for this title.
Dynamic Tyre Carcass is “working it’s way up on the list”.

There were actually good physics changes in this build which aren’t in the notes.
3 updated Tyre carcasses which change physics for about half of all the cars.

Some cars’ suspension are too bouncy now because of some experimentation on their side i guess, will be fixed in the next 2 builds.

They’re listening to the community, Ben Collins is talking about lots of details for improvement. He sometimes says eye opening stuff, f.e. how the 98T in the game is pretty near to how he thinks it was ( He drove a Lotus car from that era, but not that exact one ) and on the same day says the Caterham R500 needs more wheelspin under acceleration.

Nic Hamiltons feedback is also very detailed especially about the Z4 and Karts and the physics team is really fast with changes made because of their feedback i think.

The main thing which is odd is the FFB for now which some people mistake for “bad physics”. People say a car drives like a tank just because of too much centering spring. Take that away and they say the car lacks gravity etc. ^^

Once the FFB gets nailed people will say how amazing the physics are, only to be told the only change from last build is the FFB.

And yes it was pretty good already. I remember A.J.’s FFB work when it was introduced let me feel how the suspension of the Lotus 78 settled after going over bumps/curbs. It was amazing and i’m sure they’ll make it perfect in the end.

Suspension in pcars is totally fu.ed up, its the main reason for soo badly working interior camera. Cars behave like boxes on wheels without suspension. generally cars in pcars feels to have no connection with asphalt. There is a very long way ahead to make this title competitive with rf,rf2,netkar, iracing etc

I do make my points at both ISI and WMD forums don’t worry, but you’re probably right that doing it here doesn’t make much sense. I’ll try to refrain from commenting here :) .

I hope you get me right. I’m not saying you ar doing something wrong but as you already say it makes not much sense. I’m shure we two have the same intrests. At least it makes still less sense to fight each other as a community with the same intrests. For whom, for any of the developer ? No man it was the last thing i will do for anybody else who give a damn ……. of me. I’m fine with you.

I’m totally fine with you too, I’m not insulted or anything just sayin I’ll try to avoid comparing all sims endlessly.

Ok. I just mind my engish could be distort what i mean. Keep stay objective everything will exfiltrate for itself. Lastly everybody will be able to judge for himself. Until than i lean back and give a damn …… about anything.

I hear ya that’s why I only wished you nothing but the very best I was shocked when you were removed. I think there has been a bit of miscommunication and misunderstandings in the forums as of late. I actually had asked to be removed but did not get a reply so I guess it blew over. I just only hope that people can express themselves in a neutral fashion

Yeah.
But rF2 is a dead birth. That’s the main difference. Competing with something dead is useless.

Thx for your sympathy Birddogg66. Everything is fine. I just give a reason to make it easyer to removing me. It helps both sides more than my presence. I’m still around and i’m shure we will meet anyday on any track in any sim again.

Hello, GFX is not that great. If you put HIRES textures aside , everything looks artificial. I still cant belive, that GT5 on PS3 (6 years old), overall looks better with solid frame rate. The only things that looks great in pCARS are screenshots. Who needs screenshots????? Thank god for Asseto corrsa!!!

physics and FFB are still crap!!!

Solitude is an AWESOME track!! :)

This used to be one of my absolute favorite tracks in Grand Prix Legends over 10 years ago! :) Cant wait to drive it again in a modern sim!

maybe, maybe not dead. But it doest change fact that rf2 has a way much potential than pcars which everybody calling sim. Im aware its just a alpha/beta but imo this title will end as semi-arcade/sim game with great graphics and nothing more. Physics will be “too boring” for simracers and to hard for casual racers. Ofc i hope im wrong cos it cost me 25e

I agree, trying to compete with the likes of you would “be useless”.

Hello, GFX is not that great. If you put HIRES textures aside , everything looks artificial. I still cant belive, that GT5 on PS3 (6 years old), overall looks better with solid frame rate. The only things that looks great in pCARS are screenshots. Who needs screenshots????? Thank god for Asseto corrsa!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNgmow5QXfE&feature=player_embedded#!

physics and FFB are still crap!!!

If the developer would have the same amount of (free)time like private modders they would probably do some additional sounds. Also the whine does sound pretty nice.

Better don’t mix up sim racers with the wheel cranker dinosaurs. The first one have a clue about physics and they know why pCARS and AC are like they are. The latter is a typical kind of gamer that wouldn’t like to see any changes to their behavings in the next 50 years at best. We all know the fate of dinosaurs.

This words represent my exact feelings, BTW, great post.

Lol first you say nonsenses like suspension animation = physics, and never admit you were proven wrong, now you say people who have clue about physics know AC is good.. how many people have personally tried AC besides watching a video, 20?
The fact that you didn’t know that graphics has *NOTHING* to do whatsover with physics, they can be completely separated, shows you know little (even much less than me) about how sims really work.

The thing is that I can’t figure out whether you are that dense or just arrogant or just a troll.

Muah, you didn’t get the point that suspension movement ofc comes from the physics engine. Oh man…

Except it doesn’t, at least not in all cars in pcars.

funny thing is that “Physics & Handling Consultant” is testing and giving feedbacks with driving aids ON :(

Yes, but animations are created to make things move natural like in every game. So this isn´t an unimportant department.

‘rf2 cars mostly about physics’?
Pcars physics have absolutely transformed from the first build. Its obviously no where near netkar pro standard, but ISI have done NOTHING to the core physics of Rf2 since the very first build.
At least with PCars it has some potential, whereas the physics for Rf2 are baked in now. They have been going on about a new tyre model for months and months, and theres been no development there.

so not sure what you’re on about.

You gonna have kittens if Kunos vanishes again.
Nkp should have been so much more.

Does this game have online play yet?

yes,
Speed.

I only tested the atom and mono and they feel better (softer (more like driving on softer “rubber) than they have ever felt before and transitions between grip on/off also feel a little smoother. IMHO, they are still moving in the right direction, even though you might not get that idea from the usual forum warriors ;)

Thank you for the info simmagic. It seems Mr.Big Ron has no passion to reply.
The usual forum warriers are those who are slowly killing the community but thinking they are doing right. The boss should know what is right. It is not my prob. Real guys are keeping real and fakes are keeping fakes.
However i’m shure the physic Don A.W. will do a great job. He is great and i wish him all the best. The sim game will be great, this or that way, and even if it is hard to etablish it right it will have success and not because of the forum fakes because of the really great developer they are.

First builds were just placeholders and quick exports and adjustment for the actual modelled car. Compare it to build ~ 15x upwards when the cars’ performance got more accurate (although still with very fluctuating results in terms of quality through the car list according to some members)

So it’s no wonder that it improved compared to the very early builds.

Online multiplayer has been available for Team Members and higher for quite a few months now. It’s still quite simple, but playable.

I have driven a lot of cars from this build and it’s really the first time they seemed “right” to me. Not all and not everywhere, to be sure. Some cars still behave strangely. But I was able to drive some cars around Imola and other tracks in ways that I wouldn’t been able to before and still can’t in some established sims.

Fort example, I entered into a controlled slide with the M1 that was just exhilarating. I was able to make small corrections while still sliding and then get the next turn entry just right in a way the seemed very natural. Unlike some modern sims where the moment you break traction you know you are going to pay a visit to the barriers, the only question is which side barriers.

Trying to force people to use assists just because the car has them is rediculous.

Great that you are spreading rumors you don’t know anything about. Just because lap times in leaderboard show assists activated doesn’t mean he used it while testing.

Here’s a brain storm, why don’t the slow development team at LFS (with great physic), team up with the super fast SMS development team (with great graphics) to produce a sim, that can take on the other sims come on UK pull ya socks up :)

The real one is inactive the others are making just some n….. and people like Mr. …….. are believing to. It is just some b………
There is already a goodfather for handling balance work in the team for years apart from some other great devs.

yes it does and it sincerly rocks !!! knowing it’s still a pre alpha ;)

Personaly I found FFB Project cars really worse compared to Rfactor 2. With no real fealling of the cars BUT in the “option” part, I put these settings (I have a G25) :
FFB force : 75
TIRES FORCE : 165
Try both Rfactor 2 and PCARS on the same track and style of car and tell me… cause I tried both and YES !!! PCARS is a SIMULATION guys…