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if they keep up the progress at this rate, it’ll be a hell of a sim by 2013

The PC version will see a new dynamic tyre model ( 3-6 months min ) which will likely be too taxing to be on consoles. The tyre model in now will probably be tweaked and used for AI and consoles.
Both versions will get a new dynamics physics model ( “Basically everything car related apart from tyres, and in-air/collision behaviour” )

Hey Guys when did SMS alow screens of actual pro liveries..? though only could be used for private use..?

I wasn’t aware of this.  Thanks for the info.

They only allow fantasy ones for official releases, since these are non-commercial galleries (and are only originally published on WMD) they don’t restrain users.

The tech talk on the forums of the tire [tyre] model that will be included before release sounds truly awesome and work has been ongoing for several weeks/months now. I don’t know if you can say it’s 3-6 months away though as no estimates have been given. I would be surprised if it even took 3 months for the new tire model to make it onto a test car just due to how much time it takes to sort and test it (and the FFB to follow).

In any case, looking forward to it. Most releases until the new tire model is released will be content releases, it seems.

[Tim Allen]
Ooohhh nooooo
[/Tim Allen]

I’ll need to check the forum for info, but new tires seem to always end up overpromising and underwhelming. They need time, but 3-6 months isn’t a whole lot. :/

3-6 months is the estimate on when we can test it, doesn’t mean it will be finished.

So many cars, so many problems i’m still waiting to try this but with new cars being released nearly every update with sub class performance due to quantity… understandable hesitant.

As if it will be perfect with 6 months of testing if their goal is early 2013?

Quite interesting considering Mr. Bell has been caught bragging about how amazing the tire model they use is.

Whats up with the WMD server? Haven’t been able to access it for ages? Is it down?

Yeah, it’s a tough decision to make to commit to dropping 10 euros on something that my not be up to your standards yet. If I were you I would wait until the game is released and has been out for a least a year as then it will be clear if all the problems were ironed out or not :)

Standard sim racing comments coming up: The people working on the tracks and cars are not the same people who are working on the physics, FFB etc. Making new content does not hold back the progress in other areas.

I suggest that you try it. At worst if you don’t like it you can keep coming back every few weeks to check the progress. At best you may be very impressed. There are about a thousand drivers who enter the weekly hot lap competition and that is only a small fraction of the people who are active in trying and enjoying pCARS.

Just drive the cars which are really good already ? 1 is enough with all these tracks to keep you warm and fuzzy till the others get better ;)
I recommend the F77. But i think the other cars aren’t far behind at all.

Not an estimate from me, it’s from the devs. ;)

 I’ve been on the server and website in the last five minutes with no issue.

Yeah, you gotta love the constant development SMS puts out. It was worth the money to me just to have a new build to look forward to each Friday.

Things for the most part happen in baby steps with big developments coming together slowly behind the scenes. e.g.-dynamic weather, new tire model and FFB system, etc.. I love the way it drives as-is but just seeing the amount of work the team does each week is so encouraging.

My personal favorite is the JPLM Jag. I run a lot of laps in that car because I love the way it drives!

But you’re somewhat simplifying things here.

Of course a graphics artist making a mesh or textures doesn’t hold up some guy working on a tyre model, but that isn’t to say there isn’t merit to the argument that it makes sense to do things in a slightly more methodical manner. 

All of the content released is being worked on/improved. But there are still major fundamentals in the core engine that need to be resolved and worked out. Figuring a lot of things out does require taking a base and building on it, improving it, identifying issue and faults etc. and working from there.

Different types of cars put very different strains on the engine, and their are solid arguments for working through things in certain orders. The AC guys, for example, have spoken explicitly about this, and the approach of starting by implementing a relatively “normal” street car to work out and refine many of the basic elements before moving onto other types of cars.

There are a lot of different car types in pCARS already and a lot of feedback pouring in. Making changes based on this or that car’s behaviour before it is resolved for a “base” vehicle can lead to many problems and complications.

The artists making more tracks doesn’t have the same sort of issues, as you’re simply providing more environments to use the cars in. Any changes to track implementation can then be made to the different tracks as and when someone can get around to it. But with the cars themselves it is a very different matter as these directly govern the development of the engine via feedback.

Making changes to this or that car to iron out quirks doesn’t necessarily make a huge amount of sense when there are major issues remaining in the underlying engine. Perhaps I’m wrong and a lot of the available content is very much place holder in terms underneath the surface and one or two cars are indeed being developed as the base vehicles. But when someone questions the swathes of content coming out when large area of development remain, it isn’t always as simple as to as to respond with “some guys making a car don’t affect the guys working on the physics”; there are feedback loops in the development that reach a lot deeper than that.

You seem to know what you are talking about and what you say makes sense. Perhaps because of the development system of pCARS the situation is different. I think that to an extent they rely on new content to bring in new members and so additional funding. Also I imagine they are keen to put out licensed content sooner rather than later in the hope that potential licencees will take them more seriously. Most of the vehicles being worked on currently are licensed

This way may not be the ideal development route but is working so far in obtaining funding and the licenses which are vital for the game. They seem like an adaptable, flexible, forward thinking bunch so I image that they are making the best out of the circumstances and learning as they go the most efficient way of maintaining the development given the situation.

Last time a tried the Jag I didn’t get on with it that well as the brakes on it seemed to be so much better than on all the other cars and I was finding it difficult to adapt. Is it still like that? Did you find it quite easy to get used to it?

As Trulli once said, they’re pushing like a hell! :D

 I did find it most easy for me to adapt to. I suppose a lot of it has to do with individual feel. There are other cars such as the FA and FB that feel a bit “twitchy” or “darty” to me with instantaneous input change, which I know is part of the nature of Formula cars. Meanwhile cars such as the Asano X4 and the Caterham make me feel like I’m stabbing the brakes rather than applying them in a linear nature.

For me, the JPLM has the most linear feel across the board which relates to consistency. Consistency allows me to feel more comfortable and push the car to my limits rather than the cars limits.

So, I suppose my desire for the sim would be that I could use a single controller/F1 setup across the board in terms of input response regarding throttle, steering, and braking. However, I don’t think that in the real world you could apply a certain driving style or technique across the range of cars already in game.. So, I approach it with a grain of salt and that understanding and try to adapt a bit according to what I need the car to do.

I do wish they would add the strength back to the FFB though. I think I found a thread explaining how to tweak it but as-is the FFB is just too weak for my taste. With every build though I simply adjust the settings in the F1 menu until I get the desired effects and away I go.

Oh, and the older open wheelers are a blast to drive, though just not what I’m into as much as the other cars available. When I want to feel like a “real man” though, some laps in the F77 usually do the trick! :) 

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. Will have to give the Palmer/Jag another go and keep with it this time. I like the notRadicals and thought the the Pamler/Jag would be quite similar but it is much more different than I would have expected, which is a good thing. It’s vital for the cars to feel individual, rather than just a quick tweak on t few settings, and no complaints from me so far on that score. I love the Caterham, and the Caper on the road tracks. I think that my reactions are not the best which is my excuse for being rubbish in the faster cars :)

 I agree, they do drive much differently. I like both though. I anticipate the Caterham SP300 being a lot like the Jag, but who knows? Regardless, I think it’s going to be cool having a few different makes to fill a class.

I haven’t spent much time in the Caterham but a lot of people seem to like it. Maybe I’ll have to give it a bit more seat time. Personally I prefer the slower cars much of the time since they’re so much more forgiving. Especially online since they seem to keep the field, and thus the racing a bit tighter. Looking forward to PCARS online for sure!

Anyway, I hear you about the reaction time thing. I’ve spent many hours behind this wheel and monitor but it’s getting to the point where my 16 yr old son can get on here and be on my pace within a few laps. lol

It does look pretty.  I’ll give it that.

Oh grow up now.

I haven’t really been following the intricate details of this game, nor am I a WMD member so maybe someone can help me out here:

Does the Formula A car have push-to-pass/Kers and/or DRS systems and if not is it something SMS are looking to add in the future?

Push-to-pass is currently only on the Formula B, and movable aero is planned to be fully simulated, I believe that includes DRS.

Look pretty….external track side sound makes it look like toy car anyways. So it undone all the work for realism. All still have to work on that.

 You are right. They use the old Shift-cameras atm which have too much blur and also sound bugs. The priority for new cameras isn´t very high, now. They will rework all TV-cams when more important things are done.

 The current tyre physics is for the console version of the game. There is a complete new tyre and dynamics physics coming. But it will take a lot work till it gets included. So for now we need to test this physics-version to get the console versions as good as it can get.

Yes they are using Shift 2 cams, but they are also using Shifts 2 replays and other aspects including the Physics at the moment.  Hope it will change soon though.

 Physics are just some basics from Shift, but hardly comparable. Everyone playing Shift and pCARS wouldn´t compare it anymore.

 pCars Rain
http://www.bsimracing.com/2012/05/project-cars-spa-francorchamps-rain-video-by-digiprost/

 That’s a mock-up a WMD member made as a “I hope this is what it will look like” sort of thing, it’s not “real footage”, there’s no rain in the game yet.

 Ok thank you for the update :)

my problem with pcars is minor, it really bothers me that one of the devs is more of a gamer then a racing purist. At first it really didn’t bother me.  But after listing to the review on this site the other day about the dev playing mmo’s and other games extensively.

If I was a dev on a race game i would not have time to do anything other then my race game and i would live and breathe my race game.  This really bothers me because I don’t feel certain things are well thought out. 
For instance the fantasy tracks, I hate them. No better way to say it. I can’t stand California highway or azures county side. I hate time was spent designing these tracks and it reminds me of aracade games.
Don’t get me wrong I like games like ridge racer, but i dont like ridge racer tracks in my sim game. There is only 2 of these tracks I think so it is minor like i said but I’t does leave a thought in my head of arcade and satisfying the arcade crowd.  Even nascar 2003 had fantasy tracks made by papyrus, I hated them as well, they were call hillside and pappy park or something like that.

It bothers me they wasted time on these tracks and now say there only going to make 6 ovals, well if your going to make only 6 ovals make to less fantasy arcade tracks and 2 more ovals. Or why even have bothered making a nascar  style stock car in the 1st place. If they made 8 ovals that were on the nascar and indy schedule they could have had a full indy series for leagues. (maybe ian bell will see this and make a change but i doubt it)

Other then that I am a huge fan of Pcars. Also I feel it is every bit of a sim as any other game with all aids off.  ***Sorry if this seems negative but this minor thing really bothers me. ***

If your a road racer I can see why you would not care but I like ovals and road and feel like there is a missed opportunity.

The California Highway and Azure Coast-tracks exist in reality, they are not fantasy tracks. Just take Google Earth and you will find them.

And to be bothered because staffs are using their freetime not to work on pCARS but playing other games is a bit strange, isn´t it?

I’m sorry but the complaint about devs having a ‘life outside pCARS’ is absurd. I can understand the fantasy tracks thing a bit better, although I would counter that Toban Raceway is an exceptionally good track, and widely liked afaik despite being fantasy. I’m not normally a fan of fantasy, but I love Toban to bits.

 And to be bothered because staffs are using their freetime not to work
on pCARS but playing other games is a bit strange, isn´t it?

I guess. To some it may. When I do something and it is my life’s work I want to talk about that and concentrate on that. For instance anyone that is 100% expert at something it is because they live it 100% of the day.  Rare people only are expert enough to be putting large chunks of time into something else.

As far as the fantasy tracks go… I don’t care if its on google mars, or times square on google earth it still is not a real life race track.  There are plenty of real life city tracks that real life race cars run on.  New Orleans, Detroit,  Toronto, Saint Pete just to name a couple.

I think you confuse the word ”complain” with ”opinion”. Just like your opinion of my opinion being absurd.  :)
I almost did not post that but decided to go ahead with it… it just get me the opinion that the person was a gamer 1st instead of race enthusiast first. For me if your making a race sim I like to see race enthusiast over pure gamer. (i guarantee dave keammer was not sitting around playing space invaders when he was building indy 500/ just saying lol)

GT5 is full of tracks like toban, and another reason why I don’t like playing it or reason it sits on the shelf.  Just my thing not saying others feel same.

I did pre cursor I felt it was a ”minor” thing that was bothering me. Selfish I guess I apologize for that just if I had the tools or skill to make something like that I would not be able to stop. I see the potential for SMS to be king of sim racing,  Some of the decisions make me scratch my head.

I am not trying to put them down. Just my thought process is much different and I think I have higher goals for them then really I should have maybe. I feel frustrated that oval racing is taking a back seat and not well represented for almost a decade now in online racing.

 I see SMS as a company that could change that but I don’t think they realize there own potential or maybe they feel a need to test the waters first. Or maybe there not that interested in North American Racing.

Best Wishes!

 Ah, you’re all good in my eyes Swordand Keyboard. Not that my opinion of your opinion matters but  you make a couple valid points.

First of all, I have no problem with the devs having a gaming life outside of their current project. I didn’t see the interview you’re referring to, so I don’t know who it is or what was said, but given the size of the crew at SMS I don’t see it as an issue. In fact it may give them enough outside perspective to offer us something we may not get from singularly focused devs. I also assume they are able to separate work from pleasure, while somehow intertwining them. You know what I’m saying?

As for the oval tracks, I agree with you almost 100%, and I’ve had a fair bit of input in the forums about the tracks. To have one dated car with a scattering of tracks at best seems a bit out of focus to me. I’ve got several other games in which I oval race. (it’s my niche) I also love roadracing though and saw PCARS as a roadracing title. I wanted the focus to stay there since the flag rules are different as are the physics and several other issues. However- it also offers a foot in the door for many people who may not otherwise be interested in PCARS. Maybe I’ll enjoy some great roadracing, or oval racing with folks in the future that I otherwise might not have. I don’t think PCARS will ever deliver the oval driving realism of say ARCA Sim Racing, nor do I want it to, but, personally I don’t see it as a negative.

I think PCARS is destined to become a great “SIM”. I know it gets a lot of crap for being “arcadish” or whatever people want to call it, but I think the focus of SMS in it’s entirety is to produce a quality racing simulator true to the core. If it turns out they miss big time (which I doubt will happen) then I will enjoy it no less. However, if it turns out they build a great sim with a lot of features that traditional “sim” makers fail to include because their focus is so narrow, then it will put them head and shoulders above the rest.

The two point to point tracks had already been made previously, and it was put to a community vote whether they should be polished up and completed or not. The players voted yes, SMS should spend time on them. You can’t blame SMS for ‘wasting time’ by working on features that the community have asked for!

As for living and breathing the game, when it comes down to it, it’s a job. If you’d been working on racing games for even a couple of years straight, never mind how long those guys have been, you’d want to come home and take a break too.

The amount of ovals is more a matter of audience, the oval-loving crowd are a distinct minority, and the general drift of opinion is that the team should be focusing on road courses instead of ovals. Six ovals is quite a large chunk of the tracklist percentage wise for a single car too, I don’t think the game even has six kart tracks yet.

An opinion is not a complaint.  The complaints will come after.

If you want to have burnout syndroms, working 20h a day for just one project is the best way to get it.

If you mean Andy Tudor, who is playing MMOs and stuff is his freetime: he is an creative director and those kind of artists do whatever they can to get inspiration.

Pez2k,
”The amount of ovals is more a matter of audience, the oval-loving crowd are a distinct minority”

 Please don’t confuse supply and demand with popularity.  That would be like saying the apple is not popular in a year where no apple farms beared any apples and oranges were the top fruit because there wasn’t and apples to purchase.

The last proper circle track game **buried** it’s competition as well as buried all race games  in 2003. Yes that’s right nascar 2003 out sold GTR , Richard Burns Rally and f1 98-2002. Infact you can add up all the race games from 2002 and 2003 and there total sales won’t even come close to nascar 2003′s total sales.

So I am sorry just because a bunch of people that don’t do there homework come up with saying oval track games or RL oval tracks ”lack the popularity road tracks do”, I call the bull poop card there.

Infact, I guarantee there is more oval track racing then roadtrack racing every weekend just in the state of texas alone(not even counting the rest of the usa)  then all of Europe  put together.

Some one needs to take a crack at this. It most likely needs to be an American or north American because it really seems like most euros are in-ept and not very knowledgeable about oval racing. Not saying this to be insulting it just is not there specialty.

This shows up majorly in nascar the game 2011 made by a euro based company.  So maybe I am wrong maybe SMS could not do a good indy car game since it shows there more interested in making road track games, which is fine they do that very well. Maybe the North American market and doubling there overall sales from oval track race games is not interesting to them. LOL.

Also who ever thinks a ”poll” on pcars community forums is a gage on how to sell a race game or build one is out of there mind.   Those people don’t think out of the box and I guarantee 75% of the people on that forum are there because there fans of shift or gtr.

Anyway I am enjoying the conversation here and being able to speak freely …  thanks for not making it a flame fest.

My point was more that the oval fans are a minority in the community voting on these things. Even during the vote for which ovals to include, a large proportion voted for the likes of Motegi because it has a road course attached to it, rather than any consideration of the quality of the oval. I know there are a lot of oval racing fans in general, I’m just talking about the people who are voting here.

As for the polls, that’s kind of the point of the project though. We put in money, SMS lets us make decisions on what they do or don’t include. Unfortunately, the amount of pro-oval people is quite low, so anything oval-based doesn’t get huge support.

Excellent post. I too loved Nascar Racing 2003.  Infact I still race on line using it. I agree that the majority of WMD members must be shift fans for them to vote as they do in my opinion.

sEEMS THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS!  Ford CUP CAR LICENSE! OMG  … thank you jesus , thank you Tom Cruise ty Ian Bell.

OMG i want go out side and jump up and down like Jimmy Stewart in it’s a wonderful life!

Amazing this happens today after feeling so bummed out about pcars not really seeming like they want to do ovals much. Just wow!

I wonder if F1 drivers ever have other forms of entertainment?

 What has Shift to do with liking oval racing or not? Oval racing is most popular in USA and maybe Canada. The rest of the world doesn´t care a lot and only minorities there watch NASCAR and Indycar and such things.

Ill be glad to answer that.  The answer is really answered clearly in my other post.

But to spell it out .. shift is a Road Racing game. Sure it has a few ovals but lets be real those ovals were arcade and laughable. Fun yes .. for a few minutes but no sim racer or arcade racer would ever purchase shift for oval racing.

His point is CLEAR and reaffirming my point that Pcars is taking a poll base on demographic’s of fans predominantly on there prior race games. That and other race sites that are geared with fans for road tracks, IE .. nogripracing, race department, so on.

”Oval racing is most popular in USA and maybe Canada” – BigRon (fyi i am a fan of BigRon most of the time :) )

thanks you just help me make another solid point :) ,  More North Americans bought shift 1 and 2  then any other continent. Infact more then 2x the copies of shift sold  in NA then any other continent.

So does  it not make sense to atleast make more then six oval tracks? My answer is yes when they waste time on fantasty tracks. I personally would rather see 8 proper OVALS that could have been run as both nascar and indy tracks. (this way a full life like indy season could be advertised because yes for those that don’t know a full indycar season runs  eight ovals.)

but that just makes to much sense, and this also makes my point about having gamers as devs rather then racing purists or people that live and breath racing creating race games.

Pretty obvious some people feel same as I do  and understand my thoughts on this, hence the ”likes.  Also I feel I am making strong points without being insulting or rude to anyone. 

I want to make it clear I don’t look down on arcade racing and it is where i started in 1976 playing Atari but I prefer sim racing now. (I still play some arcade games on my ps3 now and then and have fun with them).  I just see a much higher calling for SMS and more potential then any other developer of race games.

Best Wishes!!  :)