Dario Morelli has released a new version of his highly populer Real Mod that gives the physics & AI in Slightly Mad Sudio’s Need for Speed Shift a complete overhaul.
Changelog:
- NEW TIRES MODEL: entirely rewritten models for all the cars with three separate “slip curves”.
- NEW AI MODEL: more competitive, less aggressive, and make fewer mistakes.
- NEW CHASSIS MODEL: all data from the chassis of all the cars now are correct.
- NEW COCKPIT CAM: now it’s like a real “onboard camera”.
- NEW TRACK SURFACES: all the surfaces are now correct.(same as 1.0)
Once again, the mod is available in packed .bff files and in unpacked state for those using the “loose method”. To see the effects of this mod in action, check out the Aston Martin in the video below.
IonAphis
October 5th, 2009 at 08:12
Wow, impressive…
It is official. Shift has just caused me to uninstall GTR from my computer. No reason to have it installed anymore. And with rFactor 2 becoming more and more like vaporware, if modding does become possible with Shift, even rFactor is only going to be reserved on my PC for F1 mods, which I think Shift can’t simulate well (but I’m dying to be proven wrong).
In all seriousness though, rFactor 2 better show some signs of life pretty soon or Shift (in case EA green-light modding) will steal the spotlight.
It’s definitely become more FUN to play Shift than rFactor… just jump in and click click race, and I can even navigate the menu with my wheel! True, rFactor still holds more to the sim-side, with pit stops and yellow flags and what-not, but I consistently find myself caring less and less for that… Specially since apparently every modding team is holding their masterpieces for rFactor 2, like CTDP, MMG, FSONE and RMT. It has become a wave of speculation… Modders wait for ISI to finish rFactor 2, and us users wait for the modders because all they release are videos of how great their rFactor 2 mods are going to be… Don’t get me wrong… excellent work is being done, I just get impatient at being kept with 2006 graphics when we could be getting the LMT F1 Mod quality work and CTDP quality work in the conditions of this video….
Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
msater
October 5th, 2009 at 09:06
I don’t think rF2 is vaporware. I mean, ISI said it would take a while, and it is. We just have to be patient and wait.
On topic: This mod might make get SHIFT, it looks amazing with everything redone.
beep
October 5th, 2009 at 10:23
Something really bothers me… how it is possible that:
• NEW TIRES MODEL.
• NEW CHASSIS MODEL.
• and NEW TRACK SURFACES
are correct now?
Can the creator of mod prove that above was wrong? I trust the SMS more than the mod cretor as they spent more time and money to get it right. If somebody can prove these are wrong I’ll appologize and install this mod :)
Shum94
October 5th, 2009 at 10:58
Still look bad physics, now its bad, no more shity.
And now its time to mod their inaccurate tracks…
yakshemash
October 5th, 2009 at 11:05
Their tracks are the best around you fool :)
Uff
October 5th, 2009 at 11:23
rF2 is far from being vaporware: ISI themselves released some new screens few weeks ago and they clearly stated that there would have been enough work to stay busy until the end of the year. It’s normal that they don’t release new preview every single day. :)
Now, in regards to NFS, I should be able to receive my copy soon: I’m really curious to try the final version, as I really liked the demo! I’m a bit surprised to see how many mods claim to have realistic physic just some weeks after its release, when modders are still learning how to mod properly rF. I think that it may take some more time, before one can say to properly know how NFS engine works (even if values are similar to ISI sims).
mattabater
October 5th, 2009 at 11:57
i saw my car car hitting a bump but didn’t get any feed back this was on a long straights i was going flat out when i got this might be my settings, dont know any one else had that?. Thats all i have to say because everything else feels good as, Thanks for this.
f0xx
October 5th, 2009 at 12:46
Inaccurate? Lol where do you base those theories?
The only inaccurate thing I can think of are the massive publicity adds which can be removed easily.
drowsy
October 5th, 2009 at 12:54
There’s still a weird floaty feel to the car, like there’s no weight or something. Getting better with each mod though, maybe one day I’ll be able to enjoy this game. Who am I kidding, I’ll be too busy driving Forza 3 to really care.
Skillcoil
October 5th, 2009 at 13:57
Driving a car in Shift is like taming an aggressive pet.
carbonfibre
October 5th, 2009 at 14:21
I’m going to take the opposite stance on this. I’ve joggled between modded and unmodded versions of Shift and as far as I can tell the only aspect this “Real Mod” (both 1.0 and 2.0) has affected is the AI. The Chassis and tires improvements are mostly placebo.
However I’m still holding optimistic about what modding can do for shift and after another 2 hours run through I’ve re-compiled a short list of outstanding issues which are most important to me. In order.
1) FFB: Remove large centre deadzone present in ALL cars. There is enough play in the wheel to shoot an American road movie.
2) FFB: Reduce exaggeration of weight through FFB (visual body roll can achieve this better) – Tampering with the controller config does not fix the large ramp up of forces on minor corrections.
3) FFB: Smoothen cornering forces. There is no better way to describe this than saying it feels like your vehicle was poorly constructed and/or the front wheels are wonky. Make no mistake, these aren’t road bumps but a consistent notchy disconnection of force every few seconds. My advice would be just drive the Lexus IS-F in rFactor for an idea of what I feel Shift FFB should be aiming for.
4) Physics: Many people frequently conclude the same explanation when commenting about vehicle handling; the car always pivots around a centre point. The oversteer machanic in Shift may look right from watching a few selected videos on youtube, but the fact is it’s just not enticed realistically at all.
The current situation is: You reach optimum slip angles in cornering, then you can oversteer simply by “turning more” while on throttle, very easily without skill or consequence. All while the racing line and AI gives you the impression that is the fastest way around a corner.
This is a difficult one to fix, one I doubt modders can even do but I’m willing to forgive it in light of any major FFB renovation.
5) Include option to adjust FOV in HUD settings. – I know it can be modded.
6) Include option to scale amount of overall head movement.
7) Remove transmission whine on all stock cars and when on external camera views.
8) Multitude of gear shifting bugs/delays.
I’ll stop there for now, people have already posted a few other niggles that need sorting also but out of all of them, FFB remains top of my fix list.
La Cosa
October 5th, 2009 at 14:49
Hi, I’m Dario Morelli, the creator of this mod.
I want to answer to those who have doubts about the reality improvements from the original:
the physics engine of this game is VERY similar to GTR2 and rFactor, but if you look at the files you can see big diffences in the values: two slip curves instead of three, and totally linear. also there are some new values made on purpose to make the cars drift.
With REAL MOD 2.0b you have slip angles based on the tire type and dimension, and all the values made to “cheat” the physics engine are now deleted.
The chassis of many cars were too light and the center of gravity too high or too low. now the values are more correct, based on technical data of the real cars. also the downforce was too weak or too strong. (for example, a GT2 car had the same downforce as a normal sports car, and some supercars like lamborghini had the same downforce as a city car).
I do not pretend that this mod is the best or definitive, but I still think is an improvement over the original game.
Though it may still not please you, I have provided a good basis to work.
Someone found a bug in the reliability of the cars in the 2.0b, so this is the correct version:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SEDMSF1S
spliff
October 5th, 2009 at 14:56
thanks a lot for your explanation, dario! i’m really liking your changes of the shift physics.
and to take an alternate approach than Shame94 & co:
shift hast great physics and a great FFB underneath. i have a feeling we only discovered the “tip of the iceberg”. plus: the tracks really are the most accurate ones out there today. i do not know the iRacing ones, though. now swallow this, you ney-sayers. and never forget: there always are many many different opionions out there.
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 15:24
Really? Then why does Spa use the old Bus Stop Chicane in Shift? The track was remodeled two years ago in real life.
laform
October 5th, 2009 at 16:34
Which file is for AI?
Howie47
October 5th, 2009 at 16:34
I’ve got to make a list of the people who make totally BS comments about “Shift”. We know we can’t trust their observational judgments about Sim racing; and can scratch them off any list of people to look to for modding help or advice.
“carbonfiber”. “Paul Kelly” “Shum94″. Or maybe your just little boys looking for attention?
Dillyracer
October 5th, 2009 at 17:20
What does that have to do with his statement? They use the old version, which seems pretty good to me.
Jonas
October 5th, 2009 at 17:38
jajaja you’re right, those publicity bridges across the track? wtf? But with mod, really looks nice to give it a try
flowie
October 5th, 2009 at 17:38
Even with this modification the car is still sliding all over the place. This is a racecar equipped with slicks and still it seems to have no grip at all. Or is it just the driver who doesn’t have much skill (no offense intended)? Particularly the part after the Karussel is anything but smooth driving. Fast in a straight line, but the cornering…
It’s just the same as with the Shift Videos shown before the release which only show a bunch of newbies wallbanging and wrecking.
Anyway, what do you expect if someone wants to make a racing game more realistic and his efforts only take less than a month?
Regarding the people who say rfactor 2 is vaporware I have to say there was NEVER claimed a development deadline by ISI.
ScHiRoCk
October 5th, 2009 at 18:15
This game isnt good, just as i thaught it would!
Man just try driving around a corner (medium speed) and just let the throttle go.
The car stil goes around the corner.
In real life you would spin out after a sec, with shift you can just drive on (with all aids off)
So if they can not do such a simple thing im sorry but the game is rubbish to me.
Glad i downloaded it and tried it then wasting valuable euro’s!
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 18:20
The original poster insisted Shift has the best tracks. How can it have the best tracks when they’re not even accurate, let alone not even laser-scanned as those in iRacing and some in rFactor?
creatorex
October 5th, 2009 at 19:06
Hi,
try to drive a Ford Scort without any upgrades.. .Shift it’s a reasonable sim try it… but all the people wants to have 700hp in their hands… that is exactly an agressive pet :P
Dillyracer
October 5th, 2009 at 19:21
Again, what has that to do with Spa being the old version?
I’m nog going to argue with iRacing players about circuits being accurate, I don’t have the data nor the knowledge about the real tracks to do that.
Dillyracer
October 5th, 2009 at 19:28
Oh, and I hope iRacing tracks are more accurate than in Shift, would be pretty stupid to spent 15 dollar/track if a Need for Speed circuit has the same accuracy, no?
If you want an example of inaccurate tracks, play GRID.
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 19:48
It would be. And iRacing tracks are more accurate, especially in terms of surface profiles.
yakshemash
October 5th, 2009 at 20:02
Oh great. So for NFS we REALLY NEED!! 1mm accurate track surface and all 1283 “HC simracers” around the globe will be happy…
IMO tracks in Shift are really accurate enough and looks by far the best. Compare it with ridiculous tracks in Forza, or sterile, antiseptic tracks in GT5.
UncleChuckle
October 5th, 2009 at 20:15
The people saying “Wow I can replace GTR2 with this”, can I have some of what you’re smoking please, because it must be GOOOOOOOOOD!
I contend that if you think this game in any way replaces GTR2, that you are a not a real racing simmer. You’re just a gamer who has delusions of grandeur.
Just baffled by those who think this GAME (and this is a GAME not a SIM) has anything worthwhile to offer beyond arcade.
Yes, graphically it’s amazing, I cannot fault it there, but everywhere else it just falls apart.
crosschris
October 5th, 2009 at 20:16
Nice addition, thanks a lot!
This game is brilliant but floored…keep going and we can make it the game it deserves to be!
If the whole sliding round corners thing can be fixed (4WD Subaru sliding round corners on slicks like it is on a skid pan) this game would be great.
Anyone have any idea how I can re-allocate camera left right (keyboard buttons 4 & 6) to my controller? It would be nice to be able to check my mirrors!!
Thanks again, these mods are much appreciated.
crosschris.
UncleChuckle
October 5th, 2009 at 20:19
yakshemash: “Compared it with the ridiculous tracks in Forza”.
Wow, and you’re basing this on what exactly? Since the game isn’t even released yet. And to call GT5’s tracks “sterile”… Oh I hope something is sterile… And it ain’t the tracks…
triple_a
October 5th, 2009 at 20:30
I am a bit disappointed in the fact that the cars do seem to turn around a single pivot point. I didn’t realize this before but now that someone mentioned it, it is kind of obvious from the replays. I hope I’m wrong though.
Do you know does Gran Turismo 4 and/or Prologue also have this single pivot point feature? What about Forza 2/3?
Howie47
October 5th, 2009 at 20:30
But then iRacing’s laser scanned are sometimes the “old version” which they are still selling as brand new. So your claim is bogus.
Howie47
October 5th, 2009 at 20:45
A single or central pivot point means the car spins on a axies in the center of the car. Like some did in some very old racing games. That doesn’t happen in “Shift. It spins around the front tires just as it should. Or swaps ends ends in a high speed spin. Just as it should. http://www.dailymotion.com/user/Howie47/video/xair49_need-for-speed-shift-lateral-grip-t_videogames
triple_a
October 5th, 2009 at 21:06
Thanks Howie47. For once I am glad to be proven wrong.
yakshemash
October 5th, 2009 at 21:15
Well my eyes working properly ;-)
Forza 2 has some laughable tracks and I don’t believe that F3 will be any better.
And sterile GT5 tracks? Yes, absolutely. Everything is so clear, so perfect, so shiny… In real there are always some imperfections, dirt etc. Just like in Shift!
f0xx
October 5th, 2009 at 21:44
Paul have you driven at nordschleife or spa in real life? Or you compare one game with another just based on the assumption that those games are 100% real?
Read what Ian Bell said and he was freakin right..”its not enough to do laser scan tracks” because laser scan isnt enough to represent all the plenty of minor/major details a real track has…SMS did a BUnch of things on those tracks and you just need to drive in them to understand that….
La Cosa
October 5th, 2009 at 21:54
I suggest you to try it for yourself, the videos seems to not to be a good evaluation method.
yakshemash
October 5th, 2009 at 22:07
Absolutely true. Imo most of so called HC Simracers doing exatly the same and pretending that they are right
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 23:14
Because once again, the original poster said Shift has the best tracks available in any game. And I reiterate, how can a game have the best tracks when they’re not even current?
I can understand having dated tracks if the title is a historical sim like GT Legends or Grand Prix Legends or a mod simulating an earlier era of racing, like GP 1979 or Historic GT & Touring car. But Shift is a modern, current game using inaccurate track layouts.
It would be excusable if Spa was changed this year, and the developers were deep into construction of the virtual circuit. But Spa was changed TWO YEARS AGO.
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 23:15
And which track(s) might that be? I’m not talking repaving; I’m talking significant redesign of the circuit.
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 23:20
I don’t have to drive at Spa to know the circuit was reconfigured in 2007. That’s a FACT.
Ian Bell is full of sh*t. He used the ridiculous, hyperbolic term “data treasures” to mask the fact that Shift didn’t have laser-scanned tracks. He also tried to explain that Shift used car telemetry to re-create the surfaces of tracks.
I’m sorry, but if a sim has laser-scanned tracks, a proper slip curve for its tires and proper suspension geometry modeling, it doesn’t need “data treasures” to create track surfaces. A properly built car with proper tires will react accurately to a proper track surface.
Also remember, Bell is the same guy who tried to sell us pre-release that Shift was a pure sim. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 23:26
Paul Kelly
October 5th, 2009 at 23:27
Double post above, moron double-quote. Sorry!
Howie47
October 5th, 2009 at 23:32
I guess you really don’t know what your talking about. First iRacing’s big claim to fame is their laser scanned, every bump and crack so realistic tracks that real race drivers can learn the tracks perfectly. Repaving and patching totally changes those bumps and cracks. Secondly the layout of LimeRock was changed since iRacing scanned it.
Howie47
October 5th, 2009 at 23:34
Maybe you’d like to provide that source of that quote. Cuss I think you just made it up.
F1Racer
October 6th, 2009 at 00:48
Paul, you’re fighting a losing battle here mate because you’re just plain wrong.
Tracks don’t have to be current to be the best.
Suppose a complete F1 1990 simulation comes out tomorrow on the PC. All the latest technology used to build the cars to finest degree of accuracy, best physics in any sim ever, and the most accurate realistic tracks ever made (whether it be done by laser scanning or whatever method you care to name).
Yes tracks like Imola etc will be different because the old Tamburello chicane is no longer there. Does that make the track any less realistic ?
You can easily argue that Shift has the most realistic pre 2007 Spa ever made in terms of layout (forgetting the silly ad boards).
Why you think it has to be current to be classed as realistic just doesn’t compute at all. I dunno what’s going on in your head.
F1Racer
October 6th, 2009 at 00:57
While I’m at it, I can’t believe people are still moaning as though they expected Shift to be hardcore in terms of physics !
If a movie comes out that says “The greatest adventure movie of all time” or “The scariest movie ever made” you kinda brush it off because you know its hype and you will eventually just judge it for yourself because the corporate-speak is purely for marketing. So why is Shift any different ? Why have some people been sold on everything they were told when this game was being hyped up by marketing ?
Here we have people complaining that a Need for Speed title isn’t a hardcore sim and expected it to be because they THINK they were told it would be.
Well more fool you for falling for it. Now go rent “The greatest movie in the world.” and buy “the best car for your money”. Salesmen are drooling for people like you.
)
The fact that you even believed Shift would or could be hardcore when it was clear that hardcore simmers were not and never going to be the target audience is laughable. You probably own a bible too I’m guessing. That was written by the best salesmen of all time (no not God
For it’s proper target audience we should be grateful that it turned out the way it did and didn’t end up as some gamepad friendly glorified Super Mario Kart that found its way onto Wii and Nintendo DS too.
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 01:32
IB: Shift is built on the most advanced physics engine we’ve made, and is by far the most advanced and realistic physics engine of any of the mainstream racing games. We’re talking about an engine that can run unlimited threads, detailed physics parameters running at around 400 Hz on consoles. Things like tire deformation based on g-forces, tire pressures, rubber thickness, which only the most diehard sim fans will notice, but we know it’s there.
Speaking of physics engines, will this game’s physics be more in line with GRID, Forza/GT, or GTR2?
IB: You can’t really compare SHIFT’s physics to any of those games. The physics are tuned for realistic behavior on top of the most advanced simulation engine in this generation. We’d rather have you play SHIFT and tell us how it feels. We’re confident that we’ll be seen as the most accomplished racer of the current generation when the demo is released.
http://www.drivingitalia.net/articoli.php?sez=software&id=93
Want more?
We have a full realism hardcore mode called Pro that you can choose to race in from the start that will feel natural and comfortable as well as raising the bar for handling compared to anything out there (or due out soon) for all of our hardcore race sim fans. This can be combined with one of three AI difficulty levels, and on the Hard setting, the AI will fight extremely hard and give no quarter – even the most talented racers out there will find a great challenge here.
http://www.nfsunlimited.net/news/view/17586
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 01:34
It’s a new game that wasn’t packaged as a historic racer, which I qualified in my earlier post.
Everything else about the game is pretty cutting edge. Why the 2-year-old version of Spa?
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 01:37
It’s a new game that wasn’t packaged as a historic racer, which I qualified in my earlier post.
Everything else about the game is pretty cutting edge. Why the 2-year-old version of Spa?
True, AFTER it was scanned and released. Thanks for making my point.
The Bus Stop at Spa wasn’t reconfigured AFTER Shift was released. It was done 2 years BEFORE it was released. I guess the “data treasures” weren’t available.
It doesn’t make the game any less worthy, but I do find it odd that people say Shift’s tracks are the most realistic among games depicting CURRENT racing when an older version of one of the most famous and challenging circuits in the world was included in the game.
Did Ian Bell indicate that Shift would have the old version of Spa before the release of the game? If so, then I stand corrected.
F1Racer
October 6th, 2009 at 01:38
2006 is hardly historic. Why they used the old version I dunno. Maybe a licencing thing, maybe it was a less expensive option. I’m sure there must be some reason for it though as you’d expect SMS to have used the latest version if they could have.
Either way, its still Spa and its still one of the best tracks ever constructed.
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 01:43
Agree with you on that! I was very happy to see the Japanese Grand Prix back at Suzuka last weekend, another one of the world’s great circuits.
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 01:49
One other thing: The changes made to Lime Rock created alternate complexes at Uphill and West Bend. The courses scanned by iRacing can be and still are used.
The Bus Stop at Spa was reconfigured, period. La Source also moved forward, creating a longer start-finish straight. The pit entrance also changed. There was nothing optional about any of those changes.
captain_underpants
October 6th, 2009 at 02:07
Chances are they were well into the development cycle two years ago. It’s not unheard of for games to take 3 years or more to develop.
Do you really need the very latest version of a track in order to enjoy it?
orubasarot
October 6th, 2009 at 03:50
I just want to thank the people arguing here for doing what they’re doing. Honestly that criticism is what the remains of this industry depend on for quality control. Please continue tearing eachothers throats out.
La Cosa
October 6th, 2009 at 03:53
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 04:00
True. But it’s still peculiar that one track lacks updates. Did Blimey start development of this game for EA, which was then transferred to Slightly Mad when Blimey went out of business in January 2009? Probably, since Ian Bell took all of the Blimey team to Slightly Mad. But I wonder if development started 2 1/2 to 3 years ago. Would love to know the timeline.
Then again, maybe Blimey wanted to change it. But EA is notorious for pushing developers to meet deadlines, features or accuracy be damned.
As far as historic tracks, I dig them. I love the 1979 tracks with the GP 1979 mod in rFactor, and Virtua LM has created gorgeous versions of Le Mans, Rouen and more.
But I find it odd that someone says Shift has the best tracks in the world when it’s a current game yet was released with one of its key tracks outdated by two years. Plus the tracks are littered with ads and amusement rides that don’t exist at them in reality.
That’s all. I’m not saying Shift is a Burnout clone. But I beg to differ that the tracks are the best of any game. Difference of opinion, that’s all.
ForzaBarca88
October 6th, 2009 at 04:22
Thanks for the mod Dario, AI in particular is much more realistic!
Regarding the Spa layout, I dont see what the big deal is. So the layout is 3 years old, most of the sims we race are older than that and people have no problem insisting they are realistic
In any case they did a pretty good job of modelling it and just because its not current doesnt make it any less realistic.
jux
October 6th, 2009 at 05:40
That statement by Ian Bell was nothing but marketing bullshit designed to impress gullible gamers. The tracks in Shift are okay, but nothing special compared to an accurate laser scan.
Sensekhmet
October 6th, 2009 at 08:37
Huh? Did you ever drive a car at its limits on a track?
Not even a small French hatchback will spin out ouf a corner at medium speed just because you lifted. It either needs to be going very fast at the limit of tire adhesion or the surface has to be slippery.
spliff
October 6th, 2009 at 09:55
can you stop spamming the comments with your “shift si teh shizznit blablablabla”?! it’s really annoying to spot valuable comments within all this jibba jabba in here.
who wants to read how much you DONT LIKE to play shift? just don’t play it and be a happy person. but please, shut the fuck up to tell people that they SHOULD NOT LIKE shift because “blablabla”. go iRacing and never come back!
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 11:41
Hi there Paul.
‘Bell used the ridiculous, hyperbolic term “data treasures” to mask the fact that Shift didn’t have laser-scanned tracks.’
I’ve never used the term.
We didn’t lasar scan the tracks. I’m not attempting to mask that.
‘Bell is the same guy who tried to sell us pre-release that Shift was a pure sim. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.’
I didn’t. I did though say I felt that in pro mode it simulates the experience of racing a real car better than anything out there. I stand by that.
Quick word of thanks to the overwelmingly positive response we’ve gotten from the community, especially all of the emails. It’s really appreciated and I hope we came some way to matching your passion with our first offering as SMS.
mattabater
October 6th, 2009 at 11:51
pwnage. Anyway i saw no point jumping in this tedious discussion that doesnt make any sense really in the first place shifts tracks are as good as anything out there pretty much. Once these moders get there hands on the modding tools whats stopping them putting laser scanned tracks in shift. I am seeing shift at the moment as a bit of a gmotor 3, Remember EA is rich like one of the richest game publishers in the world which means big development budgets which means kick ass tech and to add to that Ian is one of the best racing sim developers, doesnt really matter what shift straight off the shelf is like it is what it is, but its really about whats under the hood in the code.
jux
October 6th, 2009 at 14:46
Thanks for the message, Ian. You were quoted using that exact term in an interview published on the official Need for Speed website. Anyway, I don’t see what it matters really.
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 15:13
Ian:
While I appreciate you taking the time to respond, this quote was attributed to you in an interview that was posted in multiple locations online, including the Need For Speed Web site:
We see that iRacing and Codemasters are using laser scanning technology in order to reproduce tracks: did your team look into it?
IB: Our track layouts are extremely realistic. This is an area where we are confident we are surpassing the competition. We use data from multiple areas to ensure this. In addition to satellite imagery and GPS data, our track modellers have studied thousands of hours of video, ensuring that the experience of racing on a real life circuit in SHIFT matches every detail of the live onboard racing footage seen. Additionally, we have been extremely fortunate to have been provided with detailed racing telemetry data from certain racing teams, which allows us to reverse engineer the nuances of a track’s character through studying suspension movement, braking points, and g-forces on the real racing cars. It’s not enough to simply get measurements and photos. If you want to recreate the experience, you have to know the subtleties of the track’s surface contained in these data treasures that even laser scanning can’t deliver. It does no good to know about a 5mm bump in the track if you have no data to show how it makes a car react. And the reaction, the experience, is what truly matters.
Sources:
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2910057.aspx
http://forum.racedepartment.com/need-for-speed-shift/20508-need-for-speed-interviews-ian-bell.html
The term “data treasures” is in your quote, plain as day.
flowie
October 6th, 2009 at 15:16
In a drivingitalia-interview you wrote/said: “You can’t really compare SHIFT’s physics to any of those games [GRID, Forza/GT, or GTR2]. The physics are tuned for realistic behavior on top of the most advanced simulation engine in this generation. We’d rather have you play SHIFT and tell us how it feels. We’re confident that we’ll be seen as the most accomplished racer of the current generation when the demo is released.”
Reading pre-release-interviews I always felt like: This guy is just trying to make a fool of us simracers. And you still can’t stop doing so.
And finally: How can a game with a maximum of 8 players online (promised was a max of 16 players by you) ’simulate[...] the experience of racing a real car better than anything out there’?
I do understand the point that Ian’s statements are part of a marketing strategy. But the massive use of exaggerations is highly visible and that’s a bit too much.
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 15:39
Paul – I still don’t know what ‘data treasures’ are so that’s been a misquote :) It does sound particularly naff, I agree.
Flowie – I maintain that this is by far the best racer of this generation to convey how racing really feels. The physics are built on the base engine we used in GTR2, with a completely new tyre model, input model, tyre to ground contact system (Physx). I was at the Nordschliefe just this weekend with some of the team and we all agree this is as close as it gets to modelling the whole experience. I don’t see any massive exaggerations, apart from the accusation of such :)
Have fun guys.
Paul Kelly
October 6th, 2009 at 15:46
Ian:
I appreciate your participation in this discussion and your passion for Shift and your other products. It’s nice to know that developers actually care about feedback from the people playing their games.
My original depiction that you’re “full of sh*t” was uncalled for, and I apologize.
While I disagree with the marketing hyperbole, I understand that it’s all part of the PR/marketing game. Their job is to get people pumped up for the upcoming release. I also have found other games to be more realistic feeling than Shift, but I’m glad SMS is taking Shift closer to a true sim experience. EA needs a game like that in its portfolio.
You and your team at Blimey have provided me hours of fun with GTR 2, and for that I’m very grateful.
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 16:02
No worries Paul, it comes with the territory and if you don’t ‘know’ someone it’s easy to scorn the marketing blurb.
What I try to do is state the reality as it is at that moment. Things often change during the course of a development for many reasons, some out of our control, but we as a team (most of the GTR2 devs) always felt that the grip, slip, scrub, regrip behaviour of pretty much any car wasn’t there in the competition, thus the new tyre model among other things. With the exception of some of the physics, the engine is all new though.
Handling feel is always going to be very subjective though. I’m happy with what we achieved, but then I’m biased :)
We do care as you say and in fact we’re listening to and collating the feedback on the forums to see where we can improve. It’s been a long haul for us as a team without a product on the market and we’re lucky to have survived and gotten this far. Shift is (thankfully) a huge success which helps us no end for the future.
Glad you enjoyed GTR2 and maybe with some mods you’ll grow to enjoy this one as much.
PS, I’ve decided to do the QnA in this way as it’s a bit more informal. I can’t answer a lot of things for NDA reasons so apologies in advance.
mattabater
October 6th, 2009 at 16:22
i noticed the physx in there ian glad you mentioned it i mean what other racing game uses physx in its physics thats what im talking bout high tech.
mattabater
October 6th, 2009 at 16:26
i noticed the physx in there ian glad you mentioned it i mean what other racing game uses physx in its physics thats what im talking bout not only that but thats high tech.
-eRNIe-
October 6th, 2009 at 16:27
Nice to see that developers (like Ian) are reading the comments at VirtalR.
I’d like to know, what he thinks about the modding of Shift and the Real Mod itself.
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 16:32
Hi Ernie.
I personally think it’s great, especially as we didn’t go out of our way to make it easy.
I haven’t tried any of them as yet as it’s been very busy lately.
Cenotaph
October 6th, 2009 at 16:37
To be honest, i wish ppl would stop pretending this is a sim.
yakshemash
October 6th, 2009 at 16:54
another childish smartass without real experience with proper supercar…
mattabater
October 6th, 2009 at 17:02
Obvious Troll
Cenotaph
October 6th, 2009 at 17:07
So, do i need experience in a supercar to judge a game that mostly has normal cars? Are the laws of physics supposed to change everytime you seat in a different car? Is my real life car, a Seat Leon Mk1 really more stable under braking and turning than a BMW? Would a sim need a real mod? There are many questions to answer here.
F1Racer
October 6th, 2009 at 17:08
No need to pretend. Shift simulates race car driving. That is undeniable.
siggy
October 6th, 2009 at 17:16
Ian, Are you including Live For Speed, NetKar and iRacing when you say that shift has the most realistic handling out there? Or are you conveniently leaving those games out of your comparison?
Cenotaph
October 6th, 2009 at 17:21
Well, its a racing game, no doubt about it. I’ve also had no problem praising the game’s virtues, you all can check my previous comments about it. But i was very surprised to get into this particular news and still see so many comments praising the realism of its physics when i just cant see it and neither can many reviewers, including even on the review on this site.
But well, i guess im just trolling… every game has its weak and strong points and to each its own, right?
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 17:59
Hi Siggy.
Everyone has their own impression of what is realistic handling. It’s always been a very subjective thing. I feel we simulate the experience of being behind the wheel of a race car better than any of the competition, but this might not be what you mean by ‘realistic handling’ . We’ve built upon a realistic physics core and added more realistic modules where we thought they were needed. We worked very hard with physics, sound and graphics to ’simulate’ the experience.
Many of the team race often and feel we’ve gotten closer than anyone else. I maintain that GTR2 was too difficult. I’ve yet to have a car break away on track as suddenly as we had it in GTR2. The reality is that a road and race tuned car is fairly easy to drive to the edge and slightly beyond. They tend to scrub off speed if understeering or oversteering and with the right inputs for oversteer, are generally easily righted. We don’t have fudged ‘aids’ in pro mode. What is in the game is a direct result of what we feel are authentic physics.
We do have some input filters applied when using a pad (of course) but the underlying physics are the same.
F1Racer
October 6th, 2009 at 18:13
On that one I think you have a strong case. Certainly in Shift when I have muscled a car through 10 laps of Spa Francorchamps I REALLY know and feel that I’ve done 10 laps. My arms ache, I’ve had to focus real hard and it was a heck of a dynamic ride.
By comparison after 10 laps of Spa in an F1 car in rFactor, I’m not even breaking a sweat.
So in those terms, I would have to agree with you in that you certainly have simulated the experience very well.
Once I start with Shift I’m on it for a good while every time. Its an absolute blast on a PC with controller settings set right etc.
oh Ian, stick me on your MSN again will ya ? :)
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 18:21
Is that you David?
ForzaBarca88
October 6th, 2009 at 18:34
I agree that the majority of current sims are way more difficult to drive than reality, but I dont think thats due to inaccurate physics in general but rather the lack of physical forces.
But surely theres some issue with stock physics in Shift because while easy to control, a lot of the cars seem to feel unresponsive and “floaty” (might be my controls, default wheel and FFB settings are SHOCKING out of the box, FFB decent after some tweaking of the xml file). Also they seem to have an alarming tendency to oversteer in situations where you just wouldnt expect it. Anyway, just wanted to know whether you guys were satisfied with this side of the physics because it feels quite dodgy to me.
Mr. A
October 6th, 2009 at 18:34
Long time no see Ian! Great to see that you still visit these (somewhat harsh) parts of the Internet, haven’t seen you participating on any sim racing forum or similar for ages.
I’m glad that you guys finally managed to get a game released again, it has certainly been a while since GTR2 was released. Although I can’t say I am as biased towards this title as I was long ago during the development days of GTR1 (if you remember).
I’m definitely enjoying the game, but there are some parts of the game that make me scratch my head and wonder why you decided to do this or that and some issues that hopefully will get patched soon. The game sure has a certain “raw feel” to it that makes most other titles feel very sterile in comparison.
Is there any possibility that SMS in the future might release a game/sim that resembles more what most PC sim racers are used to, in terms of gameplay features such as full race weekends with practice/quality/race, pit stops, total damage and so on? I can see why things like these are excluded from a NFS game, even though I wish these things would have been included.
ForzaBarca88
October 6th, 2009 at 18:36
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 18:54
Apart from the bugs (some UI garage issues and the bouncing) yes, we are happy with it. Most of these bugs are fixed and a patch is in testing now.
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 19:01
Hey Mr A, nice to hear from you.
I think I know what you mean in terms of people getting what they are used to and it’s a possibility, we certainly love that sort of detail.
The reality is that the vast majority of buyers (across all platforms) don’t care for the fully simulated race weekend, or damage that ends their race etc. It comes down to a decision of what we can do in the allocated time to improve the game for the majority and what a publisher feels are big wins. Being able to achieve that without delivering something generic or ‘common denominator’ is the trick.
djotefsoup
October 6th, 2009 at 19:35
Hi Ian.
Thanks for Shift, I like it a lot.
Do you find it weird competing with your previous products like this? The most surreal part of the reaction to Shift, to me, is seeing people whose only previous experience with racing is in GTR2 decry Shift as unrealistic. As funny as that is to watch from outside, I can’t help but feel that something went wrong managing expectations for Shift – either in terms of the pre publicity or the default control settings or the garage setups (which seem awfully slide/oversteer happy). Are some better “track setups” along the lines of the ones you can load in GTR Evolution on the cars for a patch?
DW
October 6th, 2009 at 19:50
Classics are rather thin on the gound in Shift compared to “rivals” like Forza and GT. I’m probably venturing into NDA territory here but what are the chances of some DLC 60s and 70s cars to join the lonely Nissan? The tyre model does sliding beautifully and I really think these older cars would suit SHIFT perfectly.
DW
October 6th, 2009 at 19:54
Oh – forgot to ask. Is there hope for us ATI users?
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 20:20
I’m happy we finally have a product out we can compare to our previous work. I use ‘our’ to mean us as a team of people because of course, we made GTR2 as Blimey and Shift as SMS.
I agree we could have been a bit better out of the box with controllers although we did allocate time to it, we could have set the defaults differently.
About the expectations, again I’m biased, but I do feel we’ve delivered a really fun authentic driving experience that works well also on consoles and that’s crucial for survival. We had a team of 85 people that relied on us succeeding to get paid.
There are a few bugs in the GUI for garage. Understeer and oversteer were reversed among a few other issues we’ve since rectified. The patch should be out soon.
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 20:23
We’re committed to supporting Shift long term with new content and patches. I can’t go in to what we have planned but I agree we do sliding well :)
We’ve worked hard to add additional optimisations for ATI cards with success. This will be coming in a future patch. In the mean time, using a profile from other games helps. I’ve heard that renaming the exe to grid.exe helps a fair bit on ATI cards.
Uff
October 6th, 2009 at 20:38
Hi Ian! Considering that all of us usually drives from the cockpit, will we see after the patch the steering wheel turn according to what we are doing, instead of just few degrees? Do you plan to improve AI too, as they were used to almost stop in tight turns even in the demo? It’s good to see you (I mean, all the SMS team!) back!
djotefsoup
October 6th, 2009 at 20:42
Thanks!
I immediately regretted not having an edit button for that comment, but, if I could take a second bite at it – the main thing I think confused a lot of the console players was that a lot of them are used to “seesawing” through a track on the gamepad – full deflection steering, full accelerator, full brake, repeat. And they come into the game with cars that either have no wing, or no ability to even set downforce in the car setup. I think a lot of them assumed that sliding the back end out everywhere was what they were supposed to do the whole way through.
Other than the plain old driving assists, TCS, ABS etc, I think the one really good newbie-friendly feature SimBin put in GTR Evolution was that every single car came with a setup for every single track – if you loaded that setup, you might not get a great time, but you would at least spend most of your time on the tarmac rather than fighting your own chassis. I think the lack of any real starting point or guide to what settings they should combine together (rather than just the admittedly pretty good individual descriptions) makes things pretty hard for someone whose only previous experience is eg Forza or similar.
So the question is – do you plan to implement a feature where we can store a track-specific setup for a car in the garage rather than setting up a whole new car? And/or, something where people can store or trade setups to help each other out similar to what people can do in GTR Evolution?
F1Racer
October 6th, 2009 at 20:44
It is. :)
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 20:45
Throw me an email.
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 20:50
Hi Uff.
There are some limitations on what we can do here based around the driving and shifting animations for one thing. It’s something we’ve only had a few complaints on so I’m not sure it’s scheduled for a patch. I will check.
On the AI, we’ve actually done a lot with the AI that is new, one being that the AI names are persistent and each has a distinct personality (based on 12 types I believe off-hand). They recall how you raced against them in the past and act accordingly in the future. They have been tuned for a fairly quick action filled experience.
Uff
October 6th, 2009 at 20:52
Thanks for the quick replay.
Ian
October 6th, 2009 at 20:55
Thanks for the questions and posts guys. I’ll be back soon.
Uff
October 6th, 2009 at 20:55
Ehr… I meant reply!
djotefsoup
October 6th, 2009 at 21:40
Oh, the other thing I was curious about – I didn’t find out til recently that the soundtrack to Shift is done by Mark Morgan, who did the music for Planescape:Torment, Fallout, and other games. Did you work with him to get any of the noises he worked into the ambient backgrounds? Do you plan to release any of the original music from the game online at any point?
Howie47
October 6th, 2009 at 21:49
Now I’m wondering if the reason some people couldn’t get on board with this new and very exciting tire model is because they have ATI cards? Does it take PhysX to enjoy the full new experience? It must be the reason some just can’t see it. The physics are the best representation of driving and racing so far on a simulation. Bar none. As I said before, “it makes all the others feal like you are driving on flat tires.” Sorry if that statement wrecks some peoples favorite idol. All ways be ready to “Shift” to a new one.
DW
October 6th, 2009 at 22:04
I have an ATI card and think the physics and FFB are great. The framerate is poor with a lot of cars on the track though.
djotefsoup
October 6th, 2009 at 22:14
Yep, same. As far as I know Physx runs the same way regardless of whether it’s run natively on a supported NVidia card or on the CPU or on a dedicated Physx board. To me it feels very much like the GTL tyre model but slightly more forgiving in some cases depending on the drive and car setup. Some people really don’t like it for whatever reason though.
f0xx
October 6th, 2009 at 23:15
Hi Ian.
Thanks for the replies, glad to know you guys are actually paying atention to both sides (arcade/sim fans).
About the steering lag issue, theres many ppl arguing about it. If we had no steering lag like in GTR2 or rFactor etc.. it would be great…. its less than a second but its noticeable.
thanks again.
(Btw loving the game)
Mark
October 6th, 2009 at 23:55
Hi Ian thanks for dropping in and an creating another almost perfect game, thinks it just lacks the necessary balance a little (mainly combination of AI behavior and career mode (have to finish 1st idea)) and wish you would have had a few more months time to get it right.
But the reason for the question was the comment you made about the steering wheel animation and no complaint. I have yet to come across someone, or a forum, that is not complaining about the visual steering wheel lag, so please do ask if anything could be done to sync the two.
Can we expect a (few) more futures as PC users, car templates for painting, saving options (replay/set-up), more tuning options (gift cars (DBR9/BMW) for example), online options (really only 8 :( ), etc. Feels like we are limited by the limits/options (or lack of) of consoles.
Looking forward to the Ferrari DLC and other (older) cars and tracks although I’m not quite sure how that would be implemented for us PC users.
Thx to all involved in creating the game
Cenotaph
October 7th, 2009 at 00:04
I have a nvidia card with hardware physx enabled, that definitely not it. maybe its just a different perception on what good physics should be like, rather than an hardware issue?
DW
October 7th, 2009 at 00:34
I agree that perception is a major factor. It always is when a new sim comes out. We get used to the old physics and don’t like the new. When Simbin launched GT Legends it was accused by some of dumbing down the physics. When GTR2 came out – again many accusations of dumbing down the physics. RACE, GTR Evo, exactly the same.
Sensekhmet
October 7th, 2009 at 00:36
It’s good to hear from the man himself ;)
I’m an amateur racer in real life and I stand by the opinion that driving fast is not too difficult if you are smart and have some basic knowledge. In 3 years (maybe around 10 events a year) I turned from a hopeless ‘youth-rage’ driver into someone who can hold his own and starts to feel 2nd-3rd gear rallying is not challenging enough.
Anyway, back on topic.
I’ve noticed that car setup has some quirks. The stock cars feel good, but as you start modyfing them, they get progressively worse, up to some Works cars that drive like Crazy Taxi vehicles. I’ve noticed the setup not only is really, realy weird (even gear spacing is often wrong) but it can change by itself. No joke, a few times my cars switched from a 6 speed to a 5 speed, all by themself.
f0xx
October 7th, 2009 at 01:00
That happened to me aswell.
Hope it will be addressed in this patch
ThomasGocke
October 7th, 2009 at 01:34
Hi Ian,
Well, if there weren’t enough complaints about the animations then probably because the main problem is not that only the cockpit animations are delayed, but the whole reaction of the cars is delayed to the input. If you make quick direction changes even the sports cars feel like boats.
If I drive slowly and calm I can feel the great physics behind the game, but when it comes to quick reacting while driving at the limit, I can feel the >0.3 sec of input lag. And this is a killer for many people I’ve talked to.
Do you have any news regarding this and/or multiplayer/netcode improvements?
Thanks,
Thomas
Howie47
October 7th, 2009 at 02:26
It feels much more advanced then GTL to me. I have a Nvidia enabled PhysX card. When I say “much more”, I mean allot! Like they tried to achieve the proper feel in GTL but were handicapped by the available hardware. Shift surpasses GTL by light-years. It is obviously enhanced by a PhysX enabled GPU or equivalent CPU: and a GPU is able to deliver 100 times the CPUs PhysX calculations. So if a user doesn’t have enough CPU power to make up for a PhysX enabled GPU, they maybe handicapped.
Twincharger
October 7th, 2009 at 08:04
Ian, did you by any chance look into the strange see-sawing effect caused by most of the cars if you are using a wheel?
Need for Speed SHIFT strange Force Feedback
Also, is the works car bug resolved, that is, you have to restart every race to get the works upgrade in effect, otherwise the car drives like without any upgrades.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to speak to the community!
Ian
October 7th, 2009 at 11:34
Hi there.
Thanks for the kind words.
I agree (of course:) ) on the handling point.
Yes, what you mention is a bug. There are a few linked to the garage GUI not transferring the correct values across, or changing to a left aligned start value. We ‘think’ we’ve fixed all of these now and things are working well here. The patch will be out soon ;)
ThomasGocke
October 7th, 2009 at 14:24
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/304328.page
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=338641
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=164378
HRose
October 7th, 2009 at 14:40
Hey, Ian, since you are paying attention.
I’m not a driving expert but I followed around the discussions. A LOT of the harsh criticism on SHIFT depended on UI issues.
This means that you could curb a big chunks of complaints very quickly and without working too hard. Lots of those problems can be fixed or adjusted with access to the inner xml files.
For example:
- Lots of players complain about the AI being in general too aggressive. It would take little time to put an UI slider in the options to adjust the overall aggressiveness of AI. We can do this already with the xml but you would surely make many players happy (especially on consoles) if you let them adjust overall aggressiveness.
- Lots of complaints because you can only tune a car by exiting a race and then go through a reload. Letting players access the garage and restart quickly the race WITHOUT reloading the whole thing would make the tuning part a lot less like a chore.
- The same for arbitrary effects for things like (1) the cockpit blur at high speed, and (2) the head shaking. Just let the players disable or adjust both these effects in the Options.
Finally about the “handling”. What most players are saying is that even in “Pro” mode EITHER the physics system is programmed to be forgiving of oversteer and sliding, OR the cars are set up in their default, non-tuned profile toward oversteering. What players say is that the physics system doesn’t reward clean driving. You don’t go faster if you turn clean and you don’t lose enough speed by drifting the curve.
People think this was done as a compromise between the “sim” aspect and the fun/arcade aspect that people expect from NFS. This is why we have 2 advancement systems and “forgiving oversteer” may be a way to keep both those experience advancements as viable (but at the expense of realism).
Especially we noticed how there’s a physicstweaker.xml file that is used to “rig” some parameters and that may explain that.
So what could you say on this?
donbobo
October 7th, 2009 at 14:42
Hi Ian,
Thanks for posting and congratulations for producing NFS Shift.
Some questions…
Will the excessive oversteer on turn in and pivot effect be addressed in an upcoming patch? Maybe this is related to bugged Garage GUI/ defualt car setup.
Plus, will the AI aggressiveness be lowered at all? because currently the AI is just annoying rather then challenging more akin to banger racing rather than track racing.
I’m currently using the Real Mod to overcome some of these issues which does improve the experience for me.
Also please fix the low frame rate issues for ATI users, I have tried all the claimed fixes but with no success, it seems related to the number of AI cars that are in close view ahead.
khizerk
October 7th, 2009 at 18:37
Ian,
I will like to give my feedback, I hope it will be useful
From a graphical perspective, although the game is pretty impressive, I feel it does not match upto Forza/GT standards. The reason to me is simply that GT has learned how to render bright sunlight more realistically, while EA’s games (grid included) some why try to dodge this issue by making games more gloomy. When they attempt to render sunlight it just does not work that well, making the whole environment look rather cartoonish.
Physics feel good to me though FFB doesn’t. And I feel the AI does need to be tweaked, it is a bit too aggressive and the mods I have tried to decrease aggression some why result in races full of crashed AI cars in the middle of the track.
I guess the sunlight issue (if indeed there is one) is not likely to be fixed with a patch, but it would be good to concentrate on in future titles.
schumi82
October 7th, 2009 at 23:26
Great mod thank you very much for your work :)
Is the grip set at 120% or 100%?
HeliosDoubleSix
October 8th, 2009 at 03:44
Hi Ian, Thanks so much for answering questions and being involved, and thanks to the whole team for making an amazing game.
Please add the same level of immersion and wow to the damage system, it’s really weak and limp compared to games like Grid and Dirt. It’s a crucial part of the immersion missing, to feel real emotion you need real consequence to actions and a visceral authentic looking wreck of a car to sit back and go holy shit look what I did, that’s the consequence of my actions thank god it wasn’t real.. wow.
And add rewind like Forza/Grid/Dirt. I find it an invaluable tool for learning to drive fast as I can retake the same corner over and over and see what works and what doesn’t. Forza handle it in a nice way; I thought it would remove the thrill and tension of trying winning a race without error but it doesn’t do this if you record lap times and wins differently when you rewind or skip parts of the track, in froze you get ‘certified’ times when you race without rewinding or cheating on the track.
I’m sure you guys know you’ve done an great job, and I hope you know that if people are giving you such a hard time about the physics being 100% life like well it’s because we see such huge potential in the game and want it to go that extra mile.
I really hope you can release the tools for the game. And I hope you can continue work on updating this version and working on version 2 of the game.
I look forward to seeing night-time races, all weather snow and rain and other goodies I see lurking in the code for Shift.
I hope you can perfect and improve on the Sim aspects (qualifying, pit stops) without sacrifice and at the same time supply easier modes for newcomers and people playing with controllers. A tricky balance but it can be done if it’s exposed through a good interface.
I hope you can use your mass market appeal to fund and provide a realistic sim that immerses and is fun all round for a change.
I never thought Id’ ever be legitimately comparing a NFS branded game to PC sims.
Please keep in touch with the community even if some people are wildly rude.
RKipker
October 8th, 2009 at 05:14
Hello Ian,
First, thank you for your time and professionalism replying to these sometimes direct and abusive comments. Before I post my suggestions for improvement, please allow me to take a moment to post my Kudos’ to SMS because you guys, the entire TEAM, have accomplished some really special new features that make the game special.
1) Racer Perspective; Fantastic… the feeling of The Zone at high speeds (I’ve been there as a Motocross racer many times), the impact, the blurred vision, the slow to recover, but not annoying, the first time I smacked the wall, I truly smiled, and felt Wow, that was intensifying! You guys and captured this wonderfully.
2) Dash Board reflection in windscreen/windshield – Simply Awesome
3) Cockpit/car dash details from inside – Awesome Details, fantastic looking
4) Internal Sounds – Really Nice, really like the changes when changing exhaust.
5) Tracks, Best in Class IMHO, Yes, Spa is a slightly older layout, so!
6) Career Mode, Very Nice for an Offline Racer… great fun and very diverse… from Race Challenges, Invitational Events, knockout sessions, time trials, and more, very smart for new challenges
7) Car Selection, very good offering of many different and diverse models
8) Car Building, Very nice, I enjoy driving the cars at each level, Tier 1 – Works, Very Good, except the Nitrous, but, I guess some folks Love Nitrous
I could go on and on, but no one is pointing out the good! You guys, your team have developed a Next Generation Racer…. And I applaud you and your team.
Now, for my suggestions:
1) AI is completely off the mark. Could you guys not offer AI levels, like Aggressive, Angry, Real, Easy… it seems to me someone on your team has experience with this one!
2) FFB, could you guys offer a few more variables; i.e steering force, brake vibrations, steering vibrations, etc… again seems this is not new and since most of these parameters are offered in the wheel file, a advance settings for FFB would be an easy fix.
3) Car handling, of course this is a biggie for many… including me. Maybe a level above Pro Mode… Ultra Realistic Mode for the non wall banger type racer that enjoys a long boring race challenge… like PC users. Bouncing Car not good!
4) TH2G screen adjustments… for me as a TH2G users, it’s frustrating to have the track map and speed indicator at the screen splits… just an FYI
Anyway, I would like to thank you for raising the bar in many areas, SMS now has a game out and on the market, I hope DLC, not always for $$$ is offered to PC users, as I don’t mind paying for some offerings of course, but throw us a bone now and then…!
Hope you can get some of these issue corrected, many great suggestions of course besides mine, but I think you’ve heard most and probably even know more than we do as to make the game more enjoyable for more serious racers.
Good Luck and hopefully there is a SHIFT 2nd in the future for you guys.. and maybe a Ferrari Project or two.
Look forward to your next patch!
Randall
(P.S. Dario Morelli … your Real Mod 2.0 totally improved the game for me and I thank you for it, great work and thanks for the PACKED VERSION)
La Cosa
October 8th, 2009 at 14:49
A big “thank you” to all the people who liked the mod!
schumi82: in the 2.0b the grip it’s again 1.2, but I think it’s ok, the AI works better, and most of the lap times are the same of the real ones.
oddglob
October 9th, 2009 at 07:51
Hi Ian,
I was just wondering if EA / SMS had given consideration to upgrading the weaponary on the NFS Shift AI cars in the upcoming patch? I was thinking of such things as front and rear mounted rockets, boot mounted mini guns, remotely detonated grenades, flame throwers, oil slicks and – in particular – wheel spikes a la the ancient roman scythed chariots (also brought back into fashion by BBC’s Top Gear).
I realise most of the AI cars are already more than generously equipped with anti-human-driver weapons and battle tactics of various sorts, but given that the AI are already 90% the way to being fully fleged warriors, it seems such a pity not to go for that last 10%.
I was also wondering if EA / SMS might consider changing the parameters of what is considered aggressive driving from the human player please? For example, why stop at drafting? Why not include changing gear, accelerating and braking as well? Perhaps you could even include a bonus 1000 aggression points for actually just lining up on the grid itself and a bonus 2000 points if the human player’s car is painted metallic black?
In all seriousness though, thanks for a great game, and I am looking forward to the patch. Apart from my very strong misgivings about the AI and the way aggression points are accrued, the game really is top notch. And I for one love the physics.
Eter
October 9th, 2009 at 14:19
Hi, just made this video with Zonda R and Real mod 2.0b in full Nordschleife (Pro Mode with no aids). You can add it if you want :]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJqur4WLBLQ
Raikku
October 10th, 2009 at 04:16
Link doesn’t work(?)
NVIDIAGeek
October 13th, 2009 at 08:24
Thank you very, very much, Ian for answering us. It’s the developer himself answering to us. Thank you once again. I’ve played awesome racing simulators on PC like Sports Car GT by ISi & GTR2 by you, SMS (Blimey!) guys. I truly love SHIFT. It’s awesome! And as everyone’s saying about the aggression of the AI, I personally love it. I think it’s fair on my part, for eg., if I ram a opponent, he rams me in return. It’s realistic on my part. If I go ram into ‘em & they do nothing, then it’s not fair. The only drawback, as everyone says, is corner sliding. It’s too much. And one more question, you guys are working on a patch to fix faults, right? Thank you for the Patch v1.1, it has reduced loading time by 70%! Please fix these faults, soon. Thank you Dario for this awesome mod! It has struck in me the urge to play SHIFT!
NVIDIAGeek
October 13th, 2009 at 08:41
Sorry for the double post. I can arguably say that the cockpit view of SHIFT is THE best ever in any racing game
. Not even GT5. Forza 3’s cockpit looks bad :sd:.
Afterbirth
October 13th, 2009 at 15:45
Ian, how have you managed to get some minor rumble on the Logi Drive FX wheel (the 4th, least known, and second best 360 wheel) – on the PC version?
The ruimble API’s are meant to be different – PC uses Direct X whilst the 360 version uses something else.
This is massively importantly as its a bargin wheel thats usually 360 only.
XortioN
December 12th, 2009 at 15:10
My friend has a real annoying issue. Need for speed shift works on his pc (after testing several solutions found on the internet). But once he installs the 1.1 patch (new cars & game mode) his need for speed just doesn’t want to work. Even with the newest drivers, deleting the hardware config file etc. He uses a windows 7 64bit version and has an ATI 4670 series card.. Does anyone know a solution or will a nearby patch solve such issues (Ian?). Because I’d really like to beat him with my new cars (patch worked for me after doing a fresh install using xp 32bit). :D
Next … Just a simple suggestion or request: It just would be so cool to have some old honda’s to tune (civic EK9, integra type R). The old american muscle car really came as a nice gift, i just love them! But i’d like to do a race against some old honda’s and muscle cars. :P