Keeps the mass audience amused. Plain and simple.

belzebutt: The other thing that bugs me about Shift (compared to Evo) is that you don’t seem to loose much traction when you go off the track. It’s actually pretty hard to lose control of the car, other than by abusing the throttle. I had to ask, but isn’t it more realistic when you noticeably lose traction while you go off track? That doesn’t seem to happen in Shift.And again, the force feedback: how to you tweak that in Shift?

There is a reason why in real life you are taught to not turn when going off. You go strait until you shave speed and then try to turn in. None of the sims simulate grass correctly. But Shift is way off. It has way to much grip off track. But really you belong on the track anyways. About the FFB, you can’t “tweak it” you can only “hack it”. :) Shift is a game that can almost be hacked into a sim. It’s a shame such a good engine went to waste. I fear there is only so far the hacking can take us.

And again, the force feedback: how to you tweak that in Shift?

sensekhmet & ForzaBarca88: phew, for a minute there I thought I was alone in thinking GTR-Evo was desribable as full-on. Seems I’m not so crazy after all !

xilix:
“BWAHAHAHA.. Evo! A sim! Bwahaha!! It doesn’t even get dark outside! BWHAAHAHAHA! Darling, come in and read this post! It’s hilarious! Ahhhh – my sides hurt from genuinely LAUGHING OUT LOUD!!”

LOL

Sensekhmet: I am officially baffled by the discovery that RACE series is not considered a ‘full-on’ sim. WTF?

I’d call it a “full-on” sim but IMO it definitely feels a little weird if you go from iracing or nkp to GTR Evo. FFB plays a large part in that I’m sure, but physics wise there is clearly a difference – which is a problem considering they’re all simulating essentially the same thing.

* To the ‘hard=real’ crowd: a tire is made out of rubber and hollowed out, hence it deforms quite a bit. Optimal grip on tarmac REQUIRES some sliding and slipping of said object. Grip delivered by said object does not ‘go away’ and never returns like it does in GTR2 for example. You need to screw up badly to completely lose it. Like I did yesterday, I took too much of the left curb at Audi-S on Nurburgring GP in the WTCC BMW and had a biblical spin.

Honestly, get a grip on reality. You did not just sit there and LAUGH, OUT LOUD, because someone said Evo is a full on sim.

“BWAHAHAHA.. Evo! A sim! Bwahaha!! It doesn’t even get dark outside! BWHAAHAHAHA! Darling, come in and read this post! It’s hilarious! Ahhhh – my sides hurt from genuinely LAUGHING OUT LOUD!!”

No night racing or 24 hr racing, in my opinion, doesn’t qualify as the determining factor of whether that description stands.

As for ‘lol’, I didn’t say it wasn’t common, I was questioning your usage of it in that way.
I merely expect people who use it to terminate a sentence in that manner, to do so because they are either very young and immature or use it as a substitute for a reasoned response. It just looks out of place there, kinda like you were taking the piss as what I said was not meant to be humourous in any way.

As you mention debating is pointless. Some things in Evo are better than GTR2 and some things are a step back. This alone has already been debated on countless forums. Without going in too deep the one thing i’ll mention is the performance matched GT car physics. Each car has separate code values written in the HDC that control how much grip etc. the car has on each individual stock track. IMHO that alone stops the full on sim title right there.

We could debate other things like no night or endurance racing but those are obviously not required things to have(although fitting for GT Cars) and have already been debated to death.

I’m not in anyway saying its a bad game. The WTCC cars have been long applauded by real WTCC drivers as realistic. So that’s a plus there and yes it is technically a racing simulation. I just don’t agree with the “Full On” part of it.

On the Shift front… The physics engine is more advanced than any of the gmotor games. However, its made for a mass audience and in the end its still need for speed. The game though its quite capable in the right hands of becoming a true racing simulation.

Clearly your definition of ‘full-on’ is different to mine. This is not something I’m going to be drawn into. Opinions are like arseholes mate. Everybody has one.

Compared to Shift, GTR-E is full-on. Its an evolution (no pun intended) of GTR2 and GTR and if those aren’t full on then I dunno what is. Physics wise GTR-E is more accurate than GTR2 and I’m not debating that one with you either so feel free to ‘lol again.

When I’m altering packers, camber, toe-in and stuff like that, clearly it is not arcade. Full-on in terms of setup options, road feel etc, GTR-E qualifies.

I would be interested in your definition of ‘full-on’ (not just a game title) just out of curiousity. No doubt you’ll be going the ‘hard=real’ path like a lot of people make the mistake of doing.

F1Racer:
But why are you comparing Shift to a full-on sim like GTR-E ?
Don’t forget isn’t a full-on sim, hence there are compromises and differences.

Evo is not a full on sim lol…

I saw a comment in one of the news posts about someone tweaking force feedback with an XML file, can someone give me a link for that? I gave it an honest shot, I mostly like Shift, but when I drove GTR Evolution again after a week, as far as the FF is concerned it was like going from SD to HD.

Why am I comparing these games? Because I’ve grown to like the “rich” handling and physics the dev says the physics engine is better in Shift, and I just can’t get at the realistic physics if none of it is reflected in the steering. Out of the box, Shift doesn’t even take advantage of 20% of the capability of the Formula Force GT.

belzebutt: My current favorite game is GTR Evolution, and what ruins Shift for me is the anemic force feedback. I’m using a Logitech Formula Force GT, and in Evo I can feel so much more stuff than in Shift, most importantly I can easily tell when the front wheels loose grip. I went back and forth between Evo and Shift, and it’s as if they took out a bunch of stuff from the force feedback. No matter what I do in Shift with the throttle or the steering, I just can’t feel any loss of grip by the resistance in the wheel. When I go back to Evolution, I slam on the brakes in mid-turn, or punch the throttle too hard, and I can immediately feel what the car is doing.Does anyone else notice that in Shift? Is there any way to teak these effects in Shift to make them more noticeable? It seems like there’s no options to set for FF in Shift, while in Evolution there’s a half-dozen effects you can tweak separately.I really wanted to like Shift and the graphics are great but currently it just feels like my steering wheel is connected to the wheels through a shaft made of noodles. I’ve come to expect WAY more feedback from the road, like in GTR Evolution.

This was my intitial impression, but stick with it. Spend a week or so driving Shift and only Shift and make sure you get beyond the tier 1 cars. Once you adapt to the FFB it is actually very good. But you won’t feel the bumps until you drive cars with firmer suspensions and the loss of grip feeling is there but much more subtle. I tried GTR2 after a week driving Shift and though previously I’d loved GTR2 FFB it now it felt way too “unsubtle” going too light when you start to slide. GTR Evo does have good FFB – it doesn’t go as light as GTR2 – but I think once you get used to Shifts combination of tyre physics and FFB you will find it better. Of course GTR Evo still has the advantage of larger grids, much better AI, practice and qualifying sessions, rain, custom championships, etc etc.

belzebutt: My current favorite game is GTR Evolution, and what ruins Shift for me is the anemic force feedback. I’m using a Logitech Formula Force GT, and in Evo I can feel so much more stuff than in Shift, most importantly I can easily tell when the front wheels loose grip. I went back and forth between Evo and Shift, and it’s as if they took out a bunch of stuff from the force feedback. No matter what I do in Shift with the throttle or the steering, I just can’t feel any loss of grip by the resistance in the wheel. When I go back to Evolution, I slam on the brakes in mid-turn, or punch the throttle too hard, and I can immediately feel what the car is doing.Does anyone else notice that in Shift? Is there any way to teak these effects in Shift to make them more noticeable? It seems like there’s no options to set for FF in Shift, while in Evolution there’s a half-dozen effects you can tweak separately.I really wanted to like Shift and the graphics are great but currently it just feels like my steering wheel is connected to the wheels through a shaft made of noodles. I’ve come to expect WAY more feedback from the road, like in GTR Evolution.And since the devs like this read this site, my other gripe is the menus: there’s waaaay too many flashy graphics being thrown at you when you start and finish a race, it’s much too obtrusive and too tedious to acknowledge all the points and results you get, too many videos and flashy screens compared to the amount of racing you actually do.

But why are you comparing Shift to a full-on sim like GTR-E ?
Don’t forget isn’t a full-on sim, hence there are compromises and differences.

belzebutt: My current favorite game is GTR Evolution, and what ruins Shift for me is the anemic force feedback. I’m using a Logitech Formula Force GT, and in Evo I can feel so much more stuff than in Shift, most importantly I can easily tell when the front wheels loose grip. I went back and forth between Evo and Shift, and it’s as if they took out a bunch of stuff from the force feedback. No matter what I do in Shift with the throttle or the steering, I just can’t feel any loss of grip by the resistance in the wheel. When I go back to Evolution, I slam on the brakes in mid-turn, or punch the throttle too hard, and I can immediately feel what the car is doing.Does anyone else notice that in Shift? Is there any way to teak these effects in Shift to make them more noticeable? It seems like there’s no options to set for FF in Shift, while in Evolution there’s a half-dozen effects you can tweak separately.I really wanted to like Shift and the graphics are great but currently it just feels like my steering wheel is connected to the wheels through a shaft made of noodles. I’ve come to expect WAY more feedback from the road, like in GTR Evolution.And since the devs like this read this site, my other gripe is the menus: there’s waaaay too many flashy graphics being thrown at you when you start and finish a race, it’s much too obtrusive and too tedious to acknowledge all the points and results you get, too many videos and flashy screens compared to the amount of racing you actually do.

These are my words.

I like Shift for some fun and car crashing, but the games name is Need for Speed Shift and not GTR shift. ( it’s better than Pro-street and I mis Police cars, I also own Underground 1-2 and Most Wanted ).

Does anyone else notice that in Shift? Is there any way to teak these effects in Shift to make them more noticeable? It seems like there’s no options to set for FF in Shift, while in Evolution there’s a half-dozen effects you can tweak separately.

I really wanted to like Shift and the graphics are great but currently it just feels like my steering wheel is connected to the wheels through a shaft made of noodles. I’ve come to expect WAY more feedback from the road, like in GTR Evolution.

And since the devs like this read this site, my other gripe is the menus: there’s waaaay too many flashy graphics being thrown at you when you start and finish a race, it’s much too obtrusive and too tedious to acknowledge all the points and results you get, too many videos and flashy screens compared to the amount of racing you actually do.

I also find the name “realmod” slightly irritating. I guess the guy who made it has explained what he has improved. However, just reducing grip doesn’t mean more realism. Ian Bell said in the “Talking Shift with Ian Bell” article’s comments section that the grip coefficients in the games files are not directly comparable with reality. For example the grip factor 1.2 doesn’t mean there’s 120% grip – it was the value that felt most natural during testing.

I guess the true hardcore simraces still think that harder = more realistic. I have one friend who skipped GTR2 because it was “too grippy” :)

Skazz: Realmod having removed the more vehement camera effects seems the wrong thing to do if you watch that video. I mean, you could see the driver in the real video bouncing all over the place, just like you would have seen in-car with the original Shift camera mode before realmod “sanitized” it.

Hi :) my new video with the Carrera GT should be up soon on VirtualR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_3C_xW0H74
This time it is much better, and the head shaking at 6.46 is bluffing!