Comments on: MotoPC Hydraulic Sim Brake – Photos

By: Vonsaku

Vonsaku — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:14:20 +0000

I quess there is some difference between nations on this issue.
In here we have “Roof organisation” for motorsports and all racing goes trough theyr system.
The costs i stated above are 100% real, for example;
motorbike helmet isnt approved, it has to have all necessary stamps and stuff on them. Min price is 250-300$
Protective gear including fireproof underwear, socks, stamped and race approved clothing. Min 600$

Licenses start from 50$ for junkyard races, and masterlicense for formulas takes couple grands.

Car you can get free, but in every racing class (including junkyard racing) you need to have protective fuelcell (few hundered min), approved rollcage (bended ready =600-1000 if you weld it together by yourself), 4-point harness and racing seat for them. Harness and seat can be only max 2 years old and you have to change them after incident = 600$ everytime when you roll.
Still not forgetting that you can´t transport your race car to the track whitout car cabable for towing. There is no way around, only thing you are able to do is race on some sort of streetman cup on 1/4 mile without towing car and trailer.

Have to agree that racing sims is quite far from real racing, but in right group it can be quite close (like lubing your stuff before making out :D)

Karting is about cheapest thing that you can race here, car 1500-2000 (veteran racing). Helmet and protective gear doesnt need to be so high class, but lets face it, karting is quite far from the real car races, even its 100% tougher.
License for karting is 100$/year, racing fee about 50-70$/race.

And yes i have raced irl with bmw E30-325, Bmw E36-325i (with these the avarage fee / race was about 600/driver, not including anything else than getting yourself on the place and drive), Karting (120cc Racket), and straight line with -69 sb Corvette. Race car can be cheap but as i stated, everything included to get you in the race will bring the fee high. :)

Racing in here will cost you min 3000/year including 5-6 races, and this contains only secondary costs not inluding the racecar and equipment to get it on track, with them counted in it’ll be much higher.

By: Sensekhmet

Sensekhmet — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:35:58 +0000

Sorry to say it, Vonsaku, but your are wrong.
You seem to make the same mistake as 99% of people, who think ‘racing’ is only limited to cars that have to be hauled around on a trailer, a team of mechanics and 50 tires per race, each one costing 250$.
This is simply not true, there are a lot of levels you can compete on. Yeah, the pedals are only the fraction of a cost of, say, a magnesium alloy WRC wheel, but you don’t have to race in WRC to have fun.

Let me show you my calculation:
1986 Renault Super 5 1400cc: 200$ (these usually last for 2-3 years, depending on initial condition and driving style: you could probably rebuild them after that time but I can’t see any economical sense in this: maybe if it was a GT Turbo or a GTE, but not a standard Super 5: so just junk it and get another one)
used racing seat and 4-point camlock Sabelt harness: 75$ (can be switched between cars)
motorbike helmet: 25$
used 175/50R13 tires and wide rims from a junkyard: 50$ (usually I need two tire sets a year, it’s good to have some standard size rubber for street driving and maybe a M+S set for winter/gravel driving)
rebuilt and revalved shocks: 50$ (will last two cars, but again it depends: if you have them set too stiff and go off roading they can blow up pretty quick)
AB Cup (amateur rally/racing event on a rallycross track) entry fee + fuel: 50$

Trust me, even the lowest, cheapest form of racing is 1000% more fun than any computer sim.
To put it bluntly: simming is like masturbation, real racing is like having sex.
I’m not against simming, but this is true. These things simply do not compare yet, maybe in the future, but not yet.

By: Vonsaku

Vonsaku — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:54:42 +0000

Actually the price for this system isnt so bad compared irl-racing.
For 500 you wont be able to parcipate to any event.
Lets do little maths;
-”Racing car” 500 :D (for sure get me one too)
-Trailer to get it on track 500-1000 (rent one for 150/weekend will get you on minus in a year)
-Car that can tow race car & trailer 2000 (1500 to tow both from the track as for this price u get peace of junk)
-License 250-500
-Track fee 50-200
-Helmet and driving gear 500 (actually Fireprotective underwear cost this)
-Usually tracks locate about 300km from each other so you must stay in the place for 3 days. 200-300 for gas, food and place to stay.
-Couple guys with ya (you really cant be on your own on race track, or in the pits)200+

In reality you can mulitiply all costs by 3.Enterance level race car will cost you 10k at least, with tools and and spareparts its 15k.

For all this money and effort you get to stay 20mins-couple hours on track, couple times in a year if your 500 race car will take the beating.

Take a note at my calculations suits to Finland only, have raced some time, but SimRacing will take it, can´t afford to race IRL.

Would pay few thousand bucks for good Simracing gear and still feel its cheap.

By: FooAtari

FooAtari — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:36:33 +0000

Generally I agree with the people above.

And @TeroD I sim because I can’t afford the real deal. No doubt if I could I would still sim race. But I mainly sim to let the frustrated racer in my out a little.

By: Sensekhmet

Sensekhmet — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:26:17 +0000

Well, I’m the stereotype. I simrace and work at the track because/when I can’t race. I never ever was on any racing event as a spectator, too damn frustrating.

By: TeroD

TeroD — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:19:27 +0000

Well there are people who simrace in addition to real life racing and people who are “only” passionate about simracing. I’m more of the latter group. Not saying I wouldn’t want to race real cars, but… well there’s more to it

I find it a bit narrow-minded that most people think simracers are just people who can’t afford to race actual cars (Would be interesting to see some sort of study, or poll, about this). That we’re some sort of loosers and poor people who can’t afford to do what we actually want to

Edit: And no I wouldn’t buy this addon. For the price to make sense to me, it should provide at least 5 times better feel (more controllable ie. more accurate) than my current load cell brake. Not saying it won’t, but I find it hard to believe. Would be glad to test a set if anyone wants to send me one (I’ve got a VPP set)

By: bab0oN

bab0oN — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:24:07 +0000

While I’m with all the posters above me regarding the price of such items for the average sim racer, you can’t deny the value for real race drivers that use sims as a training tool – where you pay once for a professional sim racing setup and can train as much as you want. Compared to weekends on a race track where you can run two or three stints, change the tires, wait for other series to finish their training, fuel, fixing the car and what not.

..and if you got the money for such peripherals, why not have fun with it and race all the different cars on many tracks sims can deliver, while in real racing you’re most of the time in one car on a local track..
To each it’s own I guess.

For me as casual sim racer it’s way too expensive for ‘just’ a brake to enhance the equipment. Still having fun with my G25.. :)

By: Paul Kelly

Paul Kelly — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:22:53 +0000

Overkill. As everyone has said, if you have this kind of cake to blow, then go racing for real!

By: unklepepper

unklepepper — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:45:24 +0000

Totally agree. For sim racing, be it anything using gmotor to iRacing, this sort of hardware and expence is simply not needed.

I too would be in an old banger on a track somewhere with a REAL brake pedal under my foot!

By: Rasmus

Rasmus — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:05:34 +0000

Sensekhmet and aj_1986, I couldn’t agree more with you. I bought my G25 half a year ago, and it’ll be all I need until I can afford real racing. The prices of “professional” sim racing gear are just too steep.

By: aj_1986

aj_1986 — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:07:54 +0000

I’m with you Sensekhmet. If you’ve got enough spare money burning a hole in your pocket to be able to afford hyper expensive sim racing kit like this, why not just get into club racing for real?! I’ll stick with my stock G25 until the moment I can afford to get into real racing, I think…

By: Sensekhmet

Sensekhmet — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:49:48 +0000

No doubt a fantastic piece of kit but for me the prices of these new simracing peripherals are simply mind blowing. For 500 Euro you can buy an old small car, used racing seat and harness, some used tires and race in amateur events for a few years before the car gets ‘used up’ and you have to buy a new one (been there, done that). I can’t imagine why would anyone passionate about racing substitute that experience for a set of pedals for a computer game, no disrespect intended.

By: Hoopstar

Hoopstar — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:40:05 +0000

Not bad.. but basically a copy of what Frex has done some time ago.. 500€ is a complete rip off IMO..

The fact that BOTH systems use off the shelf components means that you could EASILY replicate this on your own pedal – and for much much less..!!!!

For example, the digital pressure switch is a Dydan unit – http://www.dydanco.com/products.asp?active_page_id=268

Enjoy.

Hoops