Modders To Boycott Simraceway

Several well-known modders and teams have announced their intentions to boycott the upcoming Simraceway website, not wanting to see their content become part of the site’s questionable concept. The group, including teams like CTDP, GSMF, Apex Modding and known modders like Erale and dmatzies, won’t be giving Simraceway permission to use their modding work in any way.

To understand this matter, a little bit of background knowledge is needed. rFactorcentral.com, a well-known community website will cease to exist in 24 days, making room for a new website called Simraceway. What looks to be a normal name/design change is much more significant as the new site is run by a different owner. While rFc was run by a community member, the new website has been taken over by an outside company called Ignite Skill Gaming who have “invested” in rFactorcentral.

As the term invested suggests, these people aren’t hobbyists like you and me but have a business interest in our community. Since running a free website does not provide significant enough profits to be interesting for a big company, their plan relys on running paid online-events much like rFc has been running at the end of 2008. And this is where the whole isue is getting extremely problematic:

A) Simraceway is trying to lure modders into submitting their stuff on their site, enabling them to use their mods in their races and make profits with them. While claiming to wanting to support the modding community, they´re planning to use material they didn’t create nor own to follow their business interests. Criticism from modders who are unhappy with this approach has been ignored, thus leading to the boycott by the mentioned teams.

B) While their plans can be criticized from a moral point of view, they may lead to serious legal troubles too. Simraceway claims they want to help modders make money with their mods, not realising that this is not possible in a legal way. Modders are only left alone by the rights owners because stuff is distributed free and not done business with. As soon as somebody starts doing commercial stuff with (for example) Formula One mods, the involved parties are in severe danger to face legal action – A problem that Simraceway is either not aware of or does not care about..

While the concept of paid online races can sound tempting for many sim racers, please keep in mind that such stuff can’t be done without the permission of the people who created the content that will be used. Remember that none of us would have anything to race with if it wasn’t for the modding community. An outside group of people who don’t care about the community is trying to exploit the goodwill of people that spend thousands of hours on stuff that we are allowed to enjoy for free, solely for making profits.

The sim community is backed by a network of modders and sites that work for free or on a donation basis, fueled by the passion for sim racing. This balance is what keeps the community intact and healthy – A balance that is threatened by the above mentioned plans. Make up your own mind about this issue and decide whether or not it’s something that should be supported…

Update: Since this story has been posted, several other teams have joined the boycott, including Racing Line Developments, Enduracers, Com8 and RPMT. It’s good to see the community standing together in a matter of such importance.

Update 2: Two days and over 120 comments later, this message has spread over countless community sites and almost all major rFactor mod teams have joined the boycott and voiced their concerns. Menawhile, Simraceway has reacted, posting a statement to answer some of the raised questions.

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • DRat

    I agree completely with the principles of this boycott. Simracing doesn’t need to be co-opted by business interests, causing license owners to litigate amateur modders who charge nothing for their work. That would ruin everything we’ve worked so hard to build over the last 10-15 years.

  • GeraArg

    I hope they find a solution and restore the spirit that had rFactor Central… 😐 🙁

  • cosm1

    I’m from RPMT, our team at this moment will boycott simraceway. As our name, we are moved by passion, not by business. I want rfactor central in the old style, just fix and improve some things. VirtualR, why don’t take the position of first site of rf modding take by rfactor central? Will be a great idea, i know is not easy and needs some money, but i will be the first to contribute.
    Cosm1, Red Passion Modding Team

  • http://www.racinglinedevelopments.com six.degrees

    And RLD too. I guess I posted over there while Montoya was writing this up 🙂

  • kScope

    All my respect to those modders, this is the spirit that makes the modding scene great. Thank you very much for your hard work

  • A13

    a slap in the face for all modders 🙁

  • klo-che

    Same for Enduracers, we not use this website, and never again RF Central. When you Endurance Series mod will be finished, please never put any download link or information on these 2 website, thanks.

  • CrippleHorse

    Their quite laconic manner in saying that nothing would change with the site’s functionality left a lot of questions unanswered, anyway. I didn’t think that the site would remain anymore the single, most important source of information about rfactor modding, even before major modding teams’ decision to boycott it. I do believe that something good will come out of this eventually, even if it involves community members making a new site. Till then, no problem, many of us relied on this site more than rfactorcentral lately, anyway.

  • ForzaBarca88

    Wow, I knew something was up with rFC but certainly not this. Real shame but I’m 100% behind the modders on this one. Wonder how long this site can even operate given the legal implications 😮

  • RaceSIMfan

    While being interested to see what simraceway is going to be like, I would have to side with the talented modders out there who do all this for free and the love of it.

    Surely it comes to a point where you have to ask is this bloat really needed? While its nice to have a site which offeres space for mods to be uploaded, do we really need anything more than a blog post and a download link? oh and a name which sounds much better than “simraceway” 😐

  • CrippleHorse

    “As soon as somebody starts doing commercial stuff with (for example) Formula One mods, the involved parties are in severe danger to face legal action – A problem that Simraceway is either not aware of or does not care about..”
    I guess it’s the second one, they just figure out it’s worth it anyway

    “Remember that none of us would have anything to race with if it wasn’t for the modding community. An outside group of people who don’t care about the community is trying to exploit the goodwill of people that spend thousands of hours on stuff that we are allowed to enjoy for free, solely for making profits”
    very well put. which brings all things back to ethical questions, leaving mod teams to be the only ones not making profit out of modding.

  • prunn

    lets restart rfcentral somewhere else… after all it’s just a website

  • f1racing

    well, first of all, I am very disgusted when hearing that someone wants to earn mony on someone others free work made with love to simracing. I also done some little moding for myself like remodeling, retexturing and things like that. Even changing little details is not an easy work. Modders, I AM 100% WITH YOU!!!!!

  • Dillyracer

    Agreed, with so many well known groups behind this boycott, it should be possible to start a new modding website.

  • Filipe Galego

    As admin of the Portal PTSims.net I give full support to the modders.

    Thank you so much for all your work!!

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Hard to believe Simraceway has not done their homework properly.

    This isn’t an idea that has happened overnight. Im not so sure things are quite as they seem in point B.
    You can run mods in leagues with fictional names, liveries etc. surely ? Doesnt that get around legal ramifications ?

  • gtrNL

    Boycotting it here, not that I contribute anything, but this is just plain stupid.
    I liked RFc, but SRW will be a big no-no for me.

  • rustymike12

    100% behind the modders, rF wouldn’t be what it is, the way it is, without them.

  • Petros_Mak

    I myself can say that I have not supported the idea since I read the announcement on rFc when it was first announced. I had already stated to quite a few who had asked me about it that I would not be supporting it.

    Groups like CTDP, GSMF, Virtua_lm, IDT, MMG and all the rest spend years of their lives producing mods for free, without being paid, to create mods for the community to enjoy for free. Sites like rFcentral take the credit for our hard work through us modding groups advertising ourselves through their site, allowing them to at some point sell themselves out and earn money through our traffic.

    Modding purely and simple should always be free. It should never be made pay 2 play or pay 2 download. MAK-Corp and all our departments will not be supported with the knowledge we have of it currently. But do take these notes into consideration.

    My personal belief is that we’ll see SRW get up there more then we’ll see it burn. If it indeed is a company that has invested into this, then they have done so with the full knowledge that their project is able to go forth. No company would invest in something without having pre-checked all bounds and gotten all rights sorted.

    FSR (Formula Simracing) for example has been running an F1 league since 1999. One that has made a special WC (World Championship) category of which there are only 11 licences. Team manages pay 1000 euro for a licence, of which then teams managers can sell to others or run their team for as long as they like. FSR also makes money through sponsors who become major sponsors and provide prize money for each race of the championship. Some years they didn’t have sponsors, some years they did. In all the league itself is supposedly run by a swedish entity which no one see’s, only knowledge is that the Teams Association made up by the team managers of WC elect a new president each year.

    Using their own team names and liveries, sponsor logo’s on the cars that teams look for themselves and sometimes earn money from, since 1999 FSR has not been touched by FOM or any organization. There are ways to get around everything and thats what most people don’t want to understand.

    With SRW (Simraceway), I feel that we won’t see them go away as easily as some might think and as a company, they would have already done their homework and if not gotten a licence similar to FSR’s that was claimed to be had in the past, then they would have no doubt found a way to get around licencing issues.

    Not to mention, if modders don’t support them, as a company, they would have the money to hire corporate modelers who will model the cars for them. At the end of the day, they’ll still get their project done with or without our support.

    The main issue is not that however, its in all you players. Many people will be eager to pay 2 play and argue that it is well worth the money. If those people who are naive and would throw themselves at it say, “Hey this is not right.” then we could preserve modding into the future as a free entity which is what it should be.

    I am glad to see teams like CTDP, GSMF and others coming up and standing up for modding’s free rights. Whether we as groups get along with each other or not, we are all driven by the same passion and dedication to the real life series of which we try to represent through our mods, and standing together to ensure that modding remains free is a noble cause. I am happy to join in with MAK-Corp and MMG in not supporting SRW or any venture of this type to come in the future.

  • Com8

    wont be contributing work in the future on either of the portals anymore, lets do sometinhg new/free instead

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    We did not have a discussion yet , but i think i can say Racers Modding Team [RMT] will not use or partisipate in any SimRaceway related project.
    I do have some experience in what is called Copy Left music under Creative Commons , and it is basically the same. In the end of the day these businessplans are just intended to make mony with the gathered portfolio on the site. When you partisipate , or sign up on a project like this , be aware that you agree with the CC license and grands the company´s certain rights on your mod.

  • mbeast

    Seems highly dubious and also a legal minefield. Doubt “simraceway” will last for long. It will be a huge blow to the modding scene if some kind alternative to rFC isn’t set up though. I suppose there’s always this site…

  • ScHiRoCk

    I hope it will die in it’s first weeks.

    The people who mod do this for their pleasure and also ours. But when a company stepps in, they will ruine it.

    Not that i am a modder, but i will boycot too and support the modders! Thank you for all the great stuff we got! FREE OF CHARGE! Respecta!

  • cosm1

    To all modders teams, i’m thinking to built up an rfactorcentral (not srw) like site, with rating sistem, progress bar, forums etc..like F1 FOTA will be great a modder association based on common rules written with all team agreement, please contact me if you are intresting

  • rainking

    RFC has offered a great service for free for a long time. They will continue to offer it for free, and people will continue to use it, and the site will continue to grow.

    The modders who are to boycott the site will soon be back, when they realise 80% of the people go to Simraceway to find their mods and wouldn’t have a clue where to find them otherwise.

  • Petros_Mak

    Typical, see people? now rainking is the perfect example of the naive people I was talking about who would jump at supporting SRW etc. Rainking. If people want to find mod groups mods, its really simple, go to their websites. You want to support mod groups? why not be an active supporting member on their websites and forums? This way you give 100% support directly to the group rather then a third entity.

  • Tigerteeth

    It looks like the new owners of RFC have underestimated the strength of feeling of the modding groups – the very people who have made the site the success it is. It’s such a pity that a valuable and popular resource has chosen to take this path, and I will of course support the decision to boycott the site. Modding groups are the lifeblood of this community – without them we have nothing, and they work in a spirit of generosity by releasing their mods for everyone to enjoy. To make RFC into a commercial venture is a terrible move, and it helps destroy that community spirit.

  • http://historicgt.8.forumer.com Hompe

    I think its sad that stuff like this have to happen! and i think simraceway will be a bad investment if the mayor good teams want to boycott it, not fun for either part in this conflict

    Cant the modders come to an agreement that they dont want their stuff being raced for cash! These things bound to be expanded, thats the way of the nature and if we think we dont want it we gotta shout it out and simraceway have to listen!!

  • crackhat

    Modders arent being ripped off lol, what about race2play, have you all boycotted them becuase they charge?

  • triskele10

    rainking: RFC has offered a great service for free for a long time. They will continue to offer it for free, and people will continue to use it, and the site will continue to grow.
    The modders who are to boycott the site will soon be back, when they realise 80% of the people go to Simraceway to find their mods and wouldn’t have a clue where to find them otherwise.

    So you realy think simracers are that stupid, wel then take look on Nogrip or others, We don’t need SRW :haha: :haha: :haha:

  • Sensekhmet

    If it’s really a serious company, not some lame amateurish outfit, they made plans for at least one year, so I think that’s how long Simaraceway will last… unless it lures some users.
    I myself am disgusted with such unethical business practices (take something that is free and sell it) and will surely boycott Simraceway. Shame to see rFC go.

  • JackDaMaster

    crackhat:
    Modders arent being ripped off lol, what about race2play, have you all boycotted them becuase they charge?

    Just to clarify on this issue a lot of people seem to have with Race2Play.

    You DO NOT have to pay to go racing (therefore you’re not paying to race mods so legal issues averted), but if you want advanced features on the site (such as bigger sign-up windows), you have to pay for those. (its only 8 dollars a month ffs)

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Custom-8 will surely not deliver tracks/mods for a commercial website to profit from, which is why we stick to hosting our own material allready. It could be argued whether nogripracing.com is allready making profit by recieving donations for other peoples work (allthough their majority of content is conversions).

  • rustymike12

    crackhat: Modders arent being ripped off lol, what about race2play, have you all boycotted them becuase they charge?

    YES

  • N0body Of The Goat

    So have SRW automatically got the right to use any mods/tracks etc. in the database they are inheriting from RFC?
    If not, are the modding groups concerned really going to risk their own finances to block use of their creations by SRW, in a court of law?
    Have SRW already been contacting mod groups for permission to use their work?

  • Paul Kelly

    Power to the modders. Simraceway.com is full of pimps, trying to make easy money off the hard work of others. Screw them.

  • ral42

    (from original post) “Remember that none of us would have anything to race with if it wasn’t for the modding community.”

    Huh? Modding is great, but this statement just doesn’t make sense. People can and do race without mods. A more accurate statement would be: None of us would have anything to mod if it wasn’t for the racing sim development community (mostly companies).

  • stabiz

    RIP rFC. 🙁

  • Slimjim

    I will not upload any mods / tracks i do in the future to the site.. what happends to the content they already have on the site.?… will they be able to use it.. or do all modders wanting to boycott need to start removing their mods / tracks from rFC.?

    it was a great site for the comunity to have easy access for finding tracks and mods.
    most modders do have their own sites, but something centralized seems to work well for everyone.. i do everything i do only for fun nothing more.. hope to see something new that everyone can agree on..

  • Remus

    LMT and VRRC (virtual-racer-rfactor-community) agree complete montoyas post. we not use this website, and never again RF Central. When you our lmt mods are will be finished, please never put any download link or information on these 2 website, thanks. (thanks klo-che
    for you text :happy: )

  • AS-GTR

    Bring back the good old rFc. Period.

  • rainking

    If you guys feel you don’t need RFC, then don’t use it. Simple as that.

    Owning something that you have worked hard on gives you the right to do what you want with it, especially if it means making a profit of something you are offering for free.

    If modders feels the same way, then start charging for yours mods. RFC is free to do what it wants, and modders can simply accept it or go elsewhere.

    End of story.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Just because a mod isnt uploaded to SRW, doesnt mean it still can’t be used. Its as downloadable for them as it is for anyone. Or am I missing something here ?

    Also if mods are used in leagues to make money, it would seem fair to give a cut of that to the mod makers.

    Im sure they wouldnt or couldnt take stuff or rFC and use it straight away on SRW. Would they ? We all know how people feel about getting permissions for things like this. How far people want to take that issue is another thing.

    As far as rFC does I wouldnt have thought modders mind if the owner of the site is able to make a little money off traffic generated to the site based on its contents.
    rfc has running costs that need paying and those are just the nuances of a site like rFC. Someone takes the trouble to make a central resource for all downloads, who’s gonna begrudge the site its worth ? No-one seems to mind uploading the links and screenshots there so too late to complain now 🙂

    Someone tell me if Im missing the point here 🙂

  • rainking

    Oh, and all the whining is coming even before the site is out…

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Thats the best time.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    maybe we should all get back to Race Sim Central … they have served us for ages…. 🙂

    rainking : Think before you talk! If you spend hours and hours on a mod , this is a serious matter. Discussions like this are a good thing , this way it gets clear to everyone what are the up and downsides.

  • amgsport

    The only constant in life is change – some good, some bad – it is what it is…..

    I applaud the efforts of all modders & totally support your boycott of any attempts by others to profit from your work. Sadly the legal grounds to defend against it do not exist, but community support will always be your strongest weapon.

    Montoya, you’ve done great things with VirtualR. I have no idea how much work it would take to fill the void left by rFC, but this seems like a great opportunity. Whatever you do, thanks for all your efforts.

  • jux

    crackhat:
    Modders arent being ripped off lol, what about race2play, have you all boycotted them becuase they charge?

    Excellent point, which discredits the whole boycott idea. Besides, Simraceway will be free to use for the same things that rFC has provided. Race2play is only free if you confine yourself to the crappy guest account.

  • Sensekhmet
  • carbonfibre

    As I’m just one of the millions of consumers, there is no exception but to stand with the mod teams on this issue. If rFc falls through, what’s the worse that could happen?

    The easy index system would be gone and a few of the independent small people who mod would lose the competitive exposure that they otherwise have by placing their work posted next to others in a rating system which helps boost good mods.

    But I think the closure would not affect the big modding groups at all really because reporting news to Virtualr.net is a perfectly fine way of collaborating all major updates anyway to those mods and releases, with hosting being supported entirely by the flourish of free download sites out there and links kept on the modders own homepage, which all of the major modding groups have already.

    Lastly, if anything, the loss of support for the small modders will undoubtedly raise the overall quality of mods foreseen as bad mods (lets be honest) won’t get the exposure they used too.

  • crackhat

    This is the most ridiculous boycott from people that should have more sense.

    Anyone rememebr life before rfc? yes a complete shambles for mods and updates. I cant see anywhere on their site where they mention anythign that can be bad for the community.

    OMG A COMPANY IS PROFITING FROM OUR WORK… errr HI ISI ?:P

    The mentality reminds me of some kind of south park mob lol.

  • schago

    ….bad thing, i really liked rfc.
    but as we all know, things change. and to tell the truth, who needs rfc when we have virtualr? since i found virtualr, i always get the latest infos about all the good mods and stuff. so, what i wanted to say: you do a great job, virtualr!!!!! so maybe this is the place where the community lives on :question: let’s hope so.

  • UncleChuckle

    Without modders we’d have nothing to race? Really?

    I guess I must have imagined all the content Evo, GTR2 etc… came with.

    So basically what this boils down to is the owner of RFC was offered a big bag of cash and ran so fast for it he left a vapor trail. What about all the people who have donated over the years? Where’s their share?

    Agree entirely with boycotting the site. Apparently our little community has become big enough that the leeches and parasites want to move in.

    Kudos to the mod makers for taking a stand.

  • DevonK

    If someone does take up the challenge of replicating what rFC has offered to the community in the past, they will be doing us all a great favour, because the rating system and the user comments rFC has provided (plus the well designed, easily navigable site itself) put it head and shoulders above other sites like NoGrip. rFC makes the process of sifting the wheat from the chaff so much easier – no wasted time on mediocre or buggy mods. With sites like NoGrip, you have no way of determining if a mod is any good or not, or even if it’s buggy or going to overwrite some key game file and cause endless problems…

  • Deano

    I suppose they should change that old saying to …. “The more thing’s change, the worse they get”. 😉

    While I’m not a modder, I understand where they are coming from. And since this is not in the “spirt” of the sim community, I will not and can not support Simraceway.

  • The Lonely

    To be honest, I don’t know their full plans, or have researched into them properly yet. But in principle I don’t oppose to pay to play racing. Many of the groups mods who have objected are already used at Race2Play and I don’t think anywhere near as much fuss has been made there.

    Running a site as big as rFc is a hugely time consuming and expensive task, those who think it can surfice best of donations are quite sorely mistaken. The finer details of this new place’s plans may need to be looked at carefully to ensure they wont get into trouble, but if that can be sorted out, to be frank I don’t care if it means we get a better site than the limited options rfc has.

    That doesn’t mean I’m supporting it. Doesn’t mean I’m ruling it out at the same time.

  • deuribarri

    All my support to the modders comunity. Never give in to CAPITALISM!!! :happyevil:

  • hypertek

    someone needs to come up with an all in one website with mod hosting, reviews, forums, for all race sims.. and also with a list of dedicated servers with mod and track listing for them and race rules etc. It could be a popular site, just pick up sponserships from third party, but yet dont let that hinder the content.

    Id love to start it up if i could do that type of coding.

    http://bhmotorsports.com/ isnt bad, but not too organized.

  • FooAtari

    I don’t object to ‘pay for play’, I sub to iracing after all

    However I do object to a company making healthy profits from someone else’s work when the people doing that work do not get a share of those profits. Furthermore, don’t agree with a company charging for the use of something that the creators give away for free.

    With the modders on this one. Will not be using RFC for the foreseeable future.

  • jux

    The Lonely: Many of the groups mods who have objected are already used at Race2Play and I don’t think anywhere near as much fuss has been made there.

    Don’t expect much of the mod community with their defensive self-importance to acknowledge that fact, though. Race2Play is a commercial venture that capitalizes on the work of mod teams, but I guess they didn’t get much flak for it because the company making the money was started by a well-known member of the mod community. Simraceway, on the other hand, are outsiders. I don’t see any other major difference between the two, and there’s no reason to boycott either.

  • nferraz

    I must say after reading this post that I was not very pleased when RFC starting having paid races. I always enjoyed the Race @ RFC events. I never looked at the new site from this perspective and I musta agree that it does not do any good for the comunity, I will boycot also if simraceway is to confirm this typpe of online racing strategy.I have no problem with the concept but it must be totally free.

  • http://www.womengamers.com/ samanthaUK

    I’m with all modders, rfc has gone down hill, runs slow, and a few modding team are complaining, that their mods, have not been listed on rfc,even though they have submitted their work weeks ago.

    http://www.rfactorcentral.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=5509&enterthread=y

    surprised about this one
    http://www.rfactorcentral.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=4578&enterthread=y piddy (BTB)

    Quote: I have been trying for the last 6 days to contact someone here at rFC with regards to removing the Oran Park LiDAR hosted link.

    And thats just two of many complaints, i guess its time rf had a new home…Montoya 😉

  • http://historicgt.8.forumer.com Rantam

    We are yet discussing what to do about this simraceway thing. Time will tell.

    Regards

    Rantam
    HistorX modding team

  • Petros_Mak

    Until we all actually find out what Simraceway plan and how they plan to implement their site and league, there’s not much we can say right now. Groups are boycotting from the knowledge they currently have of simraceway, but yet, simraceway has yet to contact any group (to my knowledge) about using their mods or detail their plans to any group. It may come around later on that when they do this, groups will see the entire situation was a mute point and support it. At the end of the day, its not like every single FREE racing league will close down due to simraceway, free leagues will still exist, our mods will not be subject to be used only by simraceway unless the mod group giving them rights is that stupid to give them complete rights. With the current knowledge we have of them, yes we’re boycotting, but lets wait and see how it all unfolds and what we’ll be told by simraceway when approached and see how it turns out.

    In any case, this is not a modding or community killer unless the big teams sell off their mod rights to simraceway. If they don’t do that, modding will still continue around the net with just one extra league called simraceway and no one will feel the brunt.

  • Simraceway.com response

    Hey Guys,

    see there are some still concerns surrounding this issue, we actually covered this point of some time ago on our ideas forum for the site. You can see my post this evening on it (as well as the previous one) here;

    http://getsatisfaction.com/simracewaycom/topics/simraceway_mods

    Hope that clarifies and we’ll be detailing the features of the new site soon here;

    http://www.simraceway.com

    Jonathan

  • ISRacing

    I’d say let’s all wait and see what happens before jumping to conclusions.

  • Jdz

    From the previews and features they’ve announced, it seems to me to be a good site.

    But in the end, if the site is good, everyone will flock to it and if it’s not, people won’t use it.

  • xilix

    crackhat:
    This is the most ridiculous boycott from people that should have more sense.
    Anyone rememebr life before rfc? yes a complete shambles for mods and updates. I cant see anywhere on their site where they mention anythign that can be bad for the community.
    OMG A COMPANY IS PROFITING FROM OUR WORK… errr HI ISI ?:P
    The mentality reminds me of some kind of south park mob lol.

    Is it really possible that you can be this clueless?

    First off, life before RFC was fine. RFC is one facet among MANY in this community. It isn’t a linchpin by any means, and you denoting that it is; shows how clueless you are when it comes to this community.

    Secondly, ISI in no way profits off of our custom content. Saying this is akin to saying that a canvas company profits off of the paintings. It makes no logical sense. Take your head out of your ass. Your attitude is the reason many of us now trade our content privately.

  • Mikec87

    Same here. I recieved a 10 year licence for Lakeside Park (Raceway) for naming and likeness from QLD Raceway under the agreement that there would be no charge by me or others to use the tracck.

    From the email from QLD Raceway COE;

    “As previously advised, we would appreciate having Lakeside available through open source & we are aware of the effort required from having assisted in three representations of the Ipswich facility.

    We only ask that you include an opening note to say that representations of Lakeside International Raceway are granted under licence from Queensland Raceways Holdings Pty Ltd.

    We will give you an official licence to publish/disseminate the representation at no charge for some renewable period – say 10 years. We need to do this as we do not want future arguments with games companies who are operating on a “for profit” basis claiming public domain entitlements.”

    What these guys MAY be doing MAY be an issue with the above statement. So, I will not have any listing of my mods and none will be available on their servers IF it is.

    Mike Cantwell.

  • Mikec87

    samanthaUK: I’m with all modders, rfc has gone down hill, runs slow, and a few modding team are complaining, that their mods, have not been listed on rfc,even though they have submitted their work weeks ago.
    http://www.rfactorcentral.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=5509&enterthread=y
    surprised about this onehttp://www.rfactorcentral.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=4578&enterthread=y piddy (BTB)
    Quote: I have been trying for the last 6 days to contact someone here at rFC with regards to removing the Oran Park LiDAR hosted link.
    And thats just two of many complaints, i guess its time rf had a new home…Montoya

    With you on that one. My Top Gear track has so many crap LINKS AND VERSIONS I have asked to be removed for nearly a year and nothing has been done.

  • toniovodka

    first i want to see with my own eyes what Simraceway is like, but i have to say i dont like what i see so far and i back the boyccott, the modders are part of my comunity, that company isnt.

    i dont like their idea of pay2play, if they create their own mods and make a pay2play league thats their business, but they are trying to use someone else work, and lets be honest:
    1: mod teams do it for fun and passion not money
    2: even if mod teams agree they wont recibe the % of money they deserve, its a company, the big piece of the cake will be for them
    3: legal actions. Dont tell me that the f1, indycar, dtm or whatever wont find a legal way to sue them if they use a mod based on their race series to make money, even codemasters(F1) or EA(NASCAR) will find a way.

    We also need to look at what we as a community can loose, big(and great) mod teams like ctdp, mmg or idt will remain, the problem will be for small teams or single modders. Do you remember the guy that made that small track close to your town? the dirt little oval that you ran last weekend?, they had a space to show their work, they knew the community would see it because we all visited the site, now the comunity will be more spread and not so much people will look at their work, a good mod or track could end in an obscure post at RSC or not been made at all just because its not as commercial or famous as f1 or monaco, same thing could happen with skins and painters.

    its true the community was fine before RFC, but it was a lot better and simple with RFC, and i think theres the need of a site like RFC.

  • Floptickle

    If this isn’t sorted out, I’m pretty sure that someone is already working on a real substitute for rFC

  • Danny

    crackhat: This is the most ridiculous boycott from people that should have more sense.
    Anyone rememebr life before rfc? yes a complete shambles for mods and updates. I cant see anywhere on their site where they mention anythign that can be bad for the community.
    OMG A COMPANY IS PROFITING FROM OUR WORK… errr HI ISI ?:P
    The mentality reminds me of some kind of south park mob lol.

    Well said. The modding community and the cry babies are an utter disgrace. Dont you understand that RFC was proving the mod community A VERY VALUABLE SERVICE?

    It gave all your hard work great accessability and exposure. You expect someone to give you costly service for nothing? You all a bunch of parasites.

    If your offended at people making money off your mods then charge for them yourself. This is why the modding community is a joke and why it will always be a B class operation. Everytime someone wants to bring it up a level they get attacked by clueless mobs who expect everything for free and.

    Good luck trying to stop Simraceway using your mods, because you have no legal claim to your work, its free public domain software.

    Why are you all not squeeling at race2play making money off your mods? Its the exact same thing as simraceway where a website is using mods to make money.

    Just save yourself the head aches and time of all this political bullshit and get an iracing account and enjoy a truley professional community and service.

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Danny:
    Good luck trying to stop Simraceway using your mods, because you have no legal claim to your work, its free public domain software.

    Don’t be a retard, please… Files created by MOD-groups or individuals will by nature be copyright protected material, further permissions and/or limitations can then be granted/denied by an EULA og Creative Commons definition.

    Funny to read though this, how clearly it stands out who are modders and who is’t.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    xilix:

    Secondly, ISI in no way profits off of our custom content. Saying this is akin to saying that a canvas company profits off of the paintings. It makes no logical sense. Take your head out of your ass. Your attitude is the reason many of us now trade our content privately.

    erm… Well he did have a point actually.
    rFactor is mod based and the majority of copies have sold because of the mod content that is created in the scene.
    I remember loads of times people saying how they only bought rF because of the HistorX mod or whatever.
    So however it’s quantified, there is no doubt rFactors sales have profited from the content.
    I agree, that that is the whole point of rFactor and that is how business goes.
    It might be akin to canvases selling because of the amount of people who want to paint (not the greatest comparison though) and thats how it goes around.

    Just pointing it out, I dont have a problem with a single penny ISI earned based on available 3rd party content. Because I know that’s it’s point.
    rF2 will be the same.

  • Danny

    Tomas Custom-8.dk:
    Don’t be a retard, please… Files created by MOD-groups or individuals will by nature be copyright protected material, further permissions and/or limitations can then be granted/denied by an EULA og Creative Commons definition.
    Funny to read though this, how clearly it stands out who are modders and who is’t.

    Ye good luck trying to enforce that copyright. Whos going to court over a free product? I still doubt you have a legal right anyway. Just writing C on a document doesnt mean you own the rights.

  • FooAtari

    Danny

    Lets say you developed a site called YouTube and let people use it for free.

    I then setup a subscription site that links to videos on your site. Your basically doing all the work, but I am charging to cover my hosting costs. You would be happy with that?

  • Floptickle

    FooAtari:
    Danny
    Lets say you developed a site called YouTube and let people use it for free.
    I then setup a subscription site that links to videos on your site. Your basically doing all the work, but I am charging to cover my hosting costs. You would be happy with that?

    Now there’s a point well worth quoting! 😉

  • Danny

    FooAtari: Danny
    Lets say you developed a site called YouTube and let people use it for free.
    I then setup a subscription site that links to videos on your site. Your basically doing all the work, but I am charging to cover my hosting costs. You would be happy with that?

    RFC is giving you a valuable service. Its a great platform for your mods for access and exposure, so why cant they make money?
    Modders are losing no money from their mods being used so I cant see any strong grounds to sue for copyright breach, even if you did have rights.

  • http://misuracing.liveforspeed.hu Misu

    Does the previously uploaded content automatically transported into the new site? Cause its better to start removing our stuffs from there… Thanks for the heads up, I’m a bit out of this scene nowadays and initially it was looking like a great improvement, but it clearly isn’t.

  • Hamish

    I understand fully and sympathise completely, with modders who don’t want commercial interests making profits from work that was intended to be “non profit”, but how much thought has been given to how much profit ISI already makes from its sim because of modder’s content?

    How is that any different?

    It would be naive to think that rFactor
    [ a sim with a few fantasy tracks and cars initially and some small later additions of licensed content] would have been profitable, or had the longevity it has had, without the work of modders and also the converters, who have copied the work of other amateur modders and other sim making companies.

    Some mods also involve material that might otherwise be subject to commercial licencing.

    How terribly “convenient” all this is for ISI?

    Lets be careful not to apply double standards to whichever companies claim to be “providing a service to modders”.

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Danny, ‘not loosing money’ is not a valid argument for others to profit from your work. In fact that would make you look like an idiot. Would you go to work not getting paid ? heck, you are ‘not loosing money’ and I’m SURE your boss would love you for it 😆

    Besides RFC is not really the issue here, the upcoming SRW with it’s questionable motives is however.

    In regard of your understanding of legal rights, thats not really our problem – unless you are on the SRW-payroll :roll:

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    FooAtari:
    Danny
    Lets say you developed a site called YouTube and let people use it for free.
    I then setup a subscription site that links to videos on your site. Your basically doing all the work, but I am charging to cover my hosting costs. You would be happy with that?

    Kind of a bad example. 🙂
    Why would I pay a subscription to your site when I can get it for free off YouTube anyway ?
    I`d have to be a complete mug, not know about YouTube in the first place and you’d have to offer so much more to make it worth the money with your YouTube offerings as a bonus.

    Guess SWR won’t really be doing that though.

    Tomas: If you’re going to quote Danny, at least keep in the fact that he spelled ‘losing’ correctly 😉
    There is no such word as loosing. Sorry I know I’m being an arse but this ignorance of spelling certain words that spread so wide across the net is a source of annoyance and complete bewilderment to me. Why do many people choose to spell the same word incorrectly in the same way is amazing.
    We got rid of ‘virii’ now lets dump ‘loosing’ too :sd:

    Loose – not tight
    Lose – to not win

    Class dismissed – you too toniovodka ;).

  • Sensekhmet

    First, let’s dump ‘lol’*: few things piss me off more than people putting’lol’ everywhere, even when there is nothing funny about the sentence.

    * into a river, with concrete shoes.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Are you talking about smileys or actual typing of ‘lol’ cos there’s a world of difference. I rarely ever type a ‘lol’
    A smiley imo shows that something might not be said with seriousness so that people don’t misinterpret it.
    You know how sensitive some people are 😉 <– see, perfect example. Its like I said it with a smile on my face.

  • Sensekhmet

    The typing of ‘lol’ (aaaand ‘omg’ and others). And even the smileys are more and more used in ways that make you scratch your head: is this guy 1) 10 years old? 2) drunk/high? 3) mentally retarded? 4) or simply doesn’t give a f**k about making his statement even remotely legible?

  • Floptickle

    Lol! All of them! 😛 Sorry ’bout that ^^

  • Sensekhmet

    Oh you little… :sd:

  • erale

    Funny how some people react because of this boycott. It’s our right to say that we don’t want OUR work on a site that probably will do the same events rfc did at the end. We simple don’t want OUR work used in any commercial event. And that includes events like the race.me events on rfc and highly likely the events on SRW.

    Modders don’t want to make money with their work. It’s supposed to be free for everyone in the community. And one very important reason because it’s free is that we don’t want to get sued from Bernie or other license holders and their lawyers. Now there are some people that want to profit from work they didn’t even create. They start commercial events for special mods and promote that on their site etc. That could very likely attract the attention of the license holders because now there is someone earning money with unlicensend content.

    And who pays the bill if the modder get’s sued because some fucking idiot wants to earn some money? The idiot? The community? Or is it in the end the modder who didn’t get any money from these events that he in the beginning never was asked for permission?

    If someone wants to earn money in this community (which is something I don’t understand) than that someone should bill for HIS work and not for OTHERS work.

    Even if RFC was a great concept nobody ever had to worry where to find the mods or information about mods before RFC. The same boards/sites still exist and now there are even more boards and sites where you can get your information from. So don’t act like RFC or now SRW is the most important site out there.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Sensekhmet:
    The typing of ‘lol’ (aaaand ‘omg’ and others). And even the smileys are more and more used in ways that make you scratch your head: is this guy 1) 10 years old? 2) drunk/high? 3) mentally retarded? 4) or simply doesn’t give a f**k about making his statement even remotely legible?

    How can you relate 2 and 3 to someone typing lol or omg ? Also it doesn’t detract from the legibility of the statement.
    Anyway I don’t write those things normally. But a smiley can go some way to not having your sentences misunderstood.

    Think how you would react to the same statement being said in both ways…

    you b*****d

    or
    lol, you b*****d :happy:

    I’m hoping you get that now cos I’m done with this subject.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    RFC is in general nothing more then a database. i loved it since day one. As many other projects, it has been killed by its own succes. I do understand that a good service costs money. I pay my iRacing fee with pleasure. In the modscene however,its another story. Because of the free content and specially some of the content that reaches the commercial quality level, its only a matter of time before someone will try to exploit it. In my private life i do have some ties with the music industry. I have seen it happen there, over and over. So it can happen in our little sim world.
    There is nothing wrong with your occasional ” Pay to race” system. What sort of makes up RMT´s concerns, is the fact that this time it might happen on a mass basis. The stronger the company that wants to retrieve control over our creations, the less we can do about it. so to be sure, RMT is better of, Safe then sorry.

    PS: it feels good that we as a mod community finaly try to sort something together. Hope we can all do that on a more regular basis.

  • Sensekhmet

    F1Racer:

    I’m hoping you get that now cos I’m done with this subject.

    Me too, since it’s obvious you don’t understand what I mean. And as an ethnolinguistics major (well, almost :sd: ) I understand how l33t retards communicate on teh intranets rather well. And it scares me.

  • http://www.f1-sim-racer.co.uk f1lover

    F1-S-R is no longer supporting rFc as well.

  • Danny

    Petros_Mak: I myself can say that I have not supported the idea since I read the announcement on rFc when it was first announced. I had already stated to quite a few who had asked me about it that I would not be supporting it.
    Groups like CTDP, GSMF, Virtua_lm, IDT, MMG and all the rest spend years of their lives producing mods for free, without being paid, to create mods for the community to enjoy for free. Sites like rFcentral take the credit for our hard work through us modding groups advertising ourselves through their site, allowing them to at some point sell themselves out and earn money through our traffic.
    Modding purely and simple should always be free. It should never be made pay 2 play or pay 2 download. MAK-Corp and all our departments will not be supported with the knowledge we have of it currently. But do take these notes into consideration.
    My personal belief is that we’ll see SRW get up there more then we’ll see it burn. If it indeed is a company that has invested into this, then they have done so with the full knowledge that their project is able to go forth. No company would invest in something without having pre-checked all bounds and gotten all rights sorted.
    FSR (Formula Simracing) for example has been running an F1 league since 1999. One that has made a special WC (World Championship) category of which there are only 11 licences. Team manages pay 1000 euro for a licence, of which then teams managers can sell to others or run their team for as long as they like. FSR also makes money through sponsors who become major sponsors and provide prize money for each race of the championship. Some years they didn’t have sponsors, some years they did. In all the league itself is supposedly run by a swedish entity which no one see’s, only knowledge is that the Teams Association made up by the team managers of WC elect a new president each year.
    Using their own team names and liveries, sponsor logo’s on the cars that teams look for themselves and sometimes earn money from, since 1999 FSR has not been touched by FOM or any organization. There are ways to get around everything and thats what most people don’t want to understand.
    With SRW (Simraceway), I feel that we won’t see them go away as easily as some might think and as a company, they would have already done their homework and if not gotten a licence similar to FSR’s that was claimed to be had in the past, then they would have no doubt found a way to get around licencing issues.
    Not to mention, if modders don’t support them, as a company, they would have the money to hire corporate modelers who will model the cars for them. At the end of the day, they’ll still get their project done with or without our support.
    The main issue is not that however, its in all you players. Many people will be eager to pay 2 play and argue that it is well worth the money. If those people who are naive and would throw themselves at it say, “Hey this is not right.” then we could preserve modding into the future as a free entity which is what it should be.
    I am glad to see teams like CTDP, GSMF and others coming up and standing up for modding’s free rights. Whether we as groups get along with each other or not, we are all driven by the same passion and dedication to the real life series of which we try to represent through our mods, and standing together to ensure that modding remains free is a noble cause. I am happy to join in with MAK-Corp and MMG in not supporting SRW or any venture of this type to come in the future.

    What a load of typical petros mak crap. Your not even a serious mod group and have only ever released 1 mod in 5 years so your the last person to be worried about your ‘work’ being used. You personally dont even mod anything at all. How many other mod groups are run by a guy who has zero modding skills anyway?

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Sensekhmet:

    Me too, since it’s obvious you don’t understand what I mean. And as an ethnolinguistics major (well, almost ) I understand how l33t retards communicate on teh intranets rather well. And it scares me.

    yikes, how many ppl can say they major in ethnolinguistics ?
    So you know of the Sapir Whorf hypothesis then ?

    I may understand more than you think.
    If you think I’m not understanding, then revise your method of explaining what you mean.
    But yeah, Internet communication standards certainly lowers social skill levels. Particularly when people latch onto misspelled words or create acronyms for everything. When and if I ever need to do that silly thing called ‘texting’ I’d be typing ‘See you later’ instead of ‘C U L8R’. I can’t be typing like a 5yr old who looks like my grammatical skills didn’t go beyond alphabetical level.
    What is scary is the lack of grammatical and spelling skills of today’s kids.
    Sure if you’re from a place where English isn’t your first language, then it’s excusable, but if not, it’s shameful.
    Anyway, this isn’t anything to so with Simraceway other than it being 3 words stuck together for no apparent reason 🙂

  • Petros_Mak

    Danny:

    What a load of typical petros mak crap. Your not even a serious mod group and have only ever released 1 mod in 5 years so your the last person to be worried about your ‘work’ being used. You personally dont even mod anything at all. How many other mod groups are run by a guy who has zero modding skills anyway?

    I’m touched that you have nothing else in your pathetic life to take up your time other then posting in every single MMG article, really I’m touched, you must be my biggest fan, but seriously dude, grow up and get a life, do something with yourself, your attitude around the net is becoming tiring for everyone who sees it.

  • Danny

    Petros_Mak:
    I’m touched that you have nothing else in your pathetic life to take up your time other then posting in every single MMG article, really I’m touched, you must be my biggest fan, but seriously dude, grow up and get a life, do something with yourself, your attitude around the net is becoming tiring for everyone who sees it.

    Thats funny coming from a pathalogical liar whos life revolves around living in a make believe fantasy internet world where hes the ceo of a fantasy company, pretending to have a fantasy wife, and pretending to have a stroke, heart, attack and brain surgery and being on life support, and then pretending to be your fantasy wife and posting it all on your forum for attention. Or telling everyone you drove indy cars in the mid 90s, or were australia f3 champ in the year, the series never existed. Or running an incompetent modding team thats a laughing stock, and just using people to satisfy your own pathetic ego. Now THATS pathetic.

  • Sensekhmet

    F1Racer:

    yikes, how many ppl can say they major in ethnolinguistics ?
    So you know of the Sapir Whorf hypothesis then ?
    I may understand more than you think.
    If you think I’m not understanding, then revise your method of explaining what you mean.
    But yeah, Internet communication standards certainly lowers social skill levels. Particularly when people latch onto misspelled words or create acronyms for everything. When and if I ever need to do that silly thing called ‘texting’ I’d be typing ‘See you later’ instead of ‘C U L8R’. I can’t be typing like a 5yr old who looks like my grammatical skills didn’t go beyond alphabetical level.
    What is scary is the lack of grammatical and spelling skills of today’s kids.
    Sure if you’re from a place where English isn’t your first language, then it’s excusable, but if not, it’s shameful.
    Anyway, this isn’t anything to so with Simraceway other than it being 3 words stuck together for no apparent reason 🙂

    Not many, which is both a blessing and a curse.
    I’m familiar with Sapir Whorf hypothesis (hell: I’ll risk a statement that ethnolinguistics wouldn’t exist without it) and I support it. If anything, internet (as a medium of pure written text only, without other components of communication channel, like body language, voice modulation etc.) proves it’s valid.
    I did underestimate you because you wondered what my drunk/retarded example has to do with typical internet speak, yet here you are comparing it to a language of a 5-yr old, which is basically what I wrote (ok, ‘mentally and socially challenged persons with communication skills impairmanet’)… I’m confused :weird:
    As to the internet as the cause of lowering social skills I’m not so sure. I am however 100% sure it makes kids try less, shall I say (‘to be arsed’ colloquially speaking), to come off as someone with half a brain and basic respect for the person they communicate with. Moreover, it makes them believe it’s actually k4wl to sound like an uneducated retard. Dawgg.
    Also, I’m Polish so excuse me my punctuation and tense slaughtering… I’ll never understand why they’re so much more complicated than in Slavic languages. LOL.
    OK, let’s end this now, before we get banned :sd:

  • http://www.virtualr.net Montoya

    Danny, keep your MMG hate out of this topic please. We´re not discussing MMG or the quality of their mods, please stick to the (rather important) topic.

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Sensekhmet:

    OK, let’s end this now, before we get banned

    Hey you slipped an LOL in there :). I think we’re on the same page here anyway mate. Also you don’t need to excuse yourself for your punctuation etc. For someone who is Polish you do a brilliant job with the English language. Better, in fact, than a hell of a lot of people who have it as their first.

  • Sensekhmet

    The LOL was put there on purpose :wink:. OK, now I’m REALLY zipping up my lips.

  • philliecullen

    What each individual mod team chooses to do is entirely up to them. They are the ones who have spent countless hours of hard slogging to build the mods. I can sympathise with them, as I’m part of a non rFactor related mod project. These mods are their babies and you need to realise they will protect them like they are their childrens. Obviously, its hard for some people to understand that.

    Many people bring up the the whole payment issues and that sites like rFactor Central/SimRaceway have a right to make money out of them for free exposure. Now, I’m sure someone can correct me on this – but how much would it be to host something like rFC? All the files I have seen for download are outsourced to download sites like Megaupload, Filefront and other places. To use a term of what someone said above, it’s a database – nothing more.

    Granted, a massive amount of traffic goes through and it stores screen-shots and a forum. But can those costs be that massive?

    A lot depends on what their plan is. It’s really suprising the lack of communication that is given to mod teams, especially some of the more popular ones, on how things will role. These guys are the lifeblood for the future of Racesimway – and alienating them will lead to a quick death.

    Even if, as some people predict, they won’t consider mod teams and just host whatever is up currently – these teams won’t return with future projects. In fact, given that the files are hosted off-site, one might question whether Racesimway will have the right to host the old files given that they aren’t on rFactor Central servers per se.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com Arnold Carter Wong

    I am very sure my GT cars won’t be on that website. I am really looking forward to the operation of that website, without any quality mods on it.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com Arnold Carter Wong

    It would be filled with blank pages, I believe.

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Thank you so much, F1Racer – You are absolutely right, can we now get back on-topic ? :roll:

    Now let’s see you type a sentance in danish, just for laughs :happy:

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Tomas Custom-8.dk:
    Thank you so much, F1Racer – You are absolutely right, can we now get back on-topic ?
    Now let’s see you type a sentance in danish, just for laughs

    Why Danish ? I can give ya Spanish if that will do. 😉

    I’m not criticising your English writing skills, just airing my annoyance on that particular mispelling of the word and my amazement at how widespread it is even among those with English as a first language (in which case it’s inexcusable).
    Its nothing personal.

  • stabiz

    Ooooh, dont try Danish. :tongue: The Danish language is so complicated they have given up on it altogether, the Danes now speak English to each other. And then there is their numerical system …

  • secretagent

    It’s also clearly against rFactor’s EULA for the software to be used for profit in any way. Essentially SimRaceway could be shut down rather quickly.

  • kabronyproductions

    I am glad to see the sim community agree for the most part on boycotting simraceway and hope us users and fans of their work will support them as well.

  • SRM

    Hi Sim Racing Community..
    SRM simracing-mods.de here. (please don’t get that wrong.. i don’t want to advertise here.. i just wanna let you know what i’m talking about.)

    I totaly agree and we have to boycott simraceway.

    Before the beta of simracew.. was announced, i allready started to develop a new version of SRM for more flexible output on the give contents. There would be more features on communication between modders and the community. As i heard about simracew.. i was demotivated and started an other project, because i’m doing that because i love to build websites and because it’s one of my hobby’s and not my job.. so i don’t want to compare with other projects which could waste my investgation in the site i have build up.

    Since VirtualR.net is a very well known website for simracing related news, it would be a great base to build up a new community for modders and simracers.

    Ive’d allready dropped an email with more details to Montoya and wating for an reply.

    More details on possible features and launch date will be released if VirtualR is interessed in.

    It would be a pleasure for me if i could do this part of contribution to the simracing community (it would also make a lot more sense on the time i allready spend on this project)

    Greets form Germany.. and i hope i will be able to say welcome to the new simracing community.

    Momo Driver (admin of SRM)

  • crosschris

    :angry: RAGE AGAINST THE (MODDED 😉 )MACHINE

    lets all hope this can be sorted, for the benefit of EVERYONE involved….

    Happy Racing…

  • http://www.eastwestextreme.com Golly

    EastWest Extreme (EWOR Mod for Rfactor)due out in a few weeks, would like to add to the list as well.
    I have spoken about my views at NoGrip and would like to offer the community our support for the boycott. We have 2 x professional model/texture lads on our team and I am sure there work and that of the whole teams would not like to be used for commercial gain, especially since we put in hours, weeks, months of effort into our work. SRW can use a fresh install of RFactor for there leagues as far as I am concerned, they will not make money from our mod, thats a promise. Our mod is to be used by leagues who run there servers on a donation to race basis if at all. This is what the Sim Community is all about, donate to the leagues for there efforts to run the servers for your respective communities. If you cannot afford it, leagues understand. Most of the time the admins and owners of the leagues tend to cough up the costings. You can all vote with your matchmaker remember people….. 😎

    My two cents on this matter… haha

  • RFACTORCENTRAL.COM/SIMRACEWAY RESPONSE

    Hi All,

    Sorry for the delay in responding on this matter, we have been experiencing difficulty in posting to this forum since Friday.

    However please now see below relevant links;

    Response on this matter here:
    http://getsatisfaction.com/simracewaycom/topics/simraceway_mods

    and modder contact email sign up here:
    http://www.simraceway.com/modders/

    general update sign up here;
    http://www.simraceway.com/

  • crackhat

    Can any modders tell me how money is being made? are you mods being sold for hosting?

  • CoDan

    No money is made with the mods as there host events where you have to pay to drive. This is a commercial use and even if modders said that their mods shouldn’t be used for those events rfc/race.me just ignored it.

  • http://www.xtremeracers.net crobol

    Why modder don’t add a Creative Commons License to all his work?

    [url=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/][img]http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88×31.png[/img][/url]

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    crackhat:
    Can any modders tell me how money is being made? are you mods being sold for hosting?

    Its not the momey making, that concerns me , but the legal rights issue.
    in 2003 i put up some of my music tracks ( i was a forrmer freelance producer) up for free under a Creative common license, stating that i only granted download for personal listening and for no commercial use. After one year i found the tracks on a documentary DVD. After complaining and trying my limited legal support, i got to hear that by digitally signing the licence, by law i had legally put my files in puclic domain. as long as i did not legally proof that they actually benefitted from my music tracks, they could do whatever they wanted. the fact that this could happen with a mod you worked on day and night, worries me the most.

  • Sensekhmet

    BSR-WiX, that is worrying. The matter seems complicated enough to require a copyright lawyer… and which mod team would be able to afford that? :weird:

  • Floptickle

    Double post

  • Floptickle

    Jonathan, Official Rep, replied 1 day ago
    Hi All,

    There seems to be an emerging belief that simraceway will be charging for mods or “profiteering”, in some way, from modders work. So I wanted to clarify that’s absolutely not the case and in any scenario would be illegal!

    We did confirm this a whiles back (see below original post 25days ago) however, we’re aware some important sim bloggers are also now expressing these concerns (Although, strangely they didn’t contact us for comment) , so wanted to reiterate the point to allay concerns.

    We’re pretty slammed at the moment with the build of the new site and really want to focus on delivering a solid evolution of rfc. However, once we’re there we’d be flattered to talk about the details of the new site with any interested sim news sites (if you’re one do shoot me a mail! – [email protected]).

    Jonathan

    ——————————————————–

    Jonathan, Official Rep, replied 25 days ago

    Hi RG,
    We’re a little mystified by this comment and are unsure of its origins – we’ve made no statement that suggests simraceway will be monetizing modders work.

    In fact this would be the antithesis of simraceway.com�s design so we hope you�ll reserve full judgment until the sites release.

    Jonathan

    source: http://getsatisfaction.com/simraceway

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Maybe only solution is for modders to unite in a league-system where they would be the one to profit for a fund, making potential lawsuits afordable in case of copyright violations.

    Just a thought.. 💡

  • http://racingrenders.com F1Racer

    Forgive my ignorance, but if its pay-to-drive, is those monies to cover running costs and prize money ?

  • http://www.bsimracing.com BSR-WiX

    i guess we would not need money at all , that would be a disaster for the modding heritage. but a good clear policy would do for most i guess.

    <even more.. the minute a modder makes money with a mod , the mod is by law illegal, and would not be tollerated by the original copyright owners of the brands we use.

  • beatnik

    Wow, I haven’t seen this much bickering since I complained about another OW mod lol. Bottom line is this, if Modders don’t want their stuff on SRW or rFc…that’s their perogative…it WILL hurt their exposure, but if SRW turns out to try and profit in any way or form, then I’m sure these modders might try fight, but unless they created everything themselves 100% which I highly doubt…everything to the grass textures.

    I want there to be a peaceful end to this debate as much as anyone…but until SRW launches, the unknowns will continue. In the end I want to say I am all for furthering rFc’s envolvement with the community and I can only hope it is for the best.

  • Dahie

    @crobol:
    You can’t license work which is based on content for which you do not have a license. In our case, we don’t hold any Series-licenses, so we can’t put them under a valid CC-license.

    I think cypherpunks01 summarized it quite well:
    http://getsatisfaction.com/simracewaycom/topics/mod_ip_and_rights_management#reply_1283963

    @BSR-WiX
    What was the problem in your case? Is there no specific license for your country or invalidates country’s copyright law the license? Otherwise I wouldn’t know why you couldn’t object. I’m curious…

  • http://www.custom-8.dk Tomas Custom-8.dk

    Funny how SRW now seem to be backing off on the issue regarding ‘money-races’ and say that they will ONLY use their own mods/tracks for this. However also admiting to the fact that RFC did use different mods for the early ‘test-races’ to find out which format would work the best for the biggest amount of people.

    You have to be really ignorant, not to see where this where going. And surely they give ud the same story about all payments beeing spend on prizes and fairly high expenses – sure… :roll:

  • http://www.slnart.com SLN

    I’m still a bit unsure about this in-house IP for paid races … will it be top quality? What if a mod group releases a top notch mod which EVERYONE wants to race? Would the in-house dev team create something similar? ‘Based’ on the mod in question?

    There’s just too many grey areas for me right now to form a decent idea about this new project. Either way, I hope you can accept the skepticism from a number of big names in the modding community.

  • mrblue

    rFCentral.net anyone? :happy:

  • cosm1

    I have a talk with Jonathan Aswell from SRW and i have been a clarification about the new site. Well, in this moment i don’t have reasons to boycott SRW, so our mod will be released as normal on rfc/srw, BUT if SRW continues like rfc on last months (illegal conversions, stolen works etc..) our mods will be not show in this site.
    RPMT

  • felipe

    great!

  • Blastcom

    Bad site run by bad people!

    Modders please boycott!!

    Don’t allow to be exploited for your talent!!!

  • Blastcom

    SLN: I’m still a bit unsure about this in-house IP for paid races … will it be top quality? What if a mod group releases a top notch mod which EVERYONE wants to race? Would the in-house dev team create something similar? ‘Based’ on the mod in question?There’s just too many grey areas for me right now to form a decent idea about this new project. Either way, I hope you can accept the skepticism from a number of big names in the modding community.

    Simraceway has a deposit system for money and creates an account but no withdrawl.
    The only winner will be simraceway.
    People need to be aware of this site and it’s intentions for the community.

  • Chonkster

    I seen this coming from before it happened. Some asshole company trying to make off the backs of others….i stunk to me from the moment i seen the new site announced. Nothing good could come of it. They seen how much support as a game it had, and tried to cotton onto its coat tails. When will they ever learn that the commercial bs just makes core sim lovers run in disgust. I hope they fail dismally. This is the world we live in…..stop the world, i want to get off.

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