Live for Speed – Tire Model Progress Update

Back in summer, The Live for Speed Development Team released the 0.6B version of their simulation and since then, chose to work in silence on various improvements of their simulation.

Now, the team has released a progress update on their work, mainly talking about the much-anticipated new tire model and releasing a preview shot to go along with it:

Scawen has been further developing the virtual tyre test rig, a detailed model of a tyre’s structure, to work out various values for the in-game tyre model. For example, what is the contact patch length, width and pressure for a given vertical deflection and how does the tyre’s shape change with forces, torques and camber. These depend on the dimensions and structure of a tyre. By making the in-game tyres behave in a similar way, the driving experience will be as realistic as possible.

In the left part of the image, the yellow lines show the radial cords of the carcass. The orange and green lines show the steel belts and the cap ply. The right side of the image illustrates the carcass thickness which gives some rigidity even without air pressure.

But the team isn’t just working on improving the physics as  new content is also coming up after the physics improvements. Some of it like the VW Scirocco will be free for owners of a S1 or S2 license.

More new content will be available in version S3, including more cars & tracks such as the laser-scanned Rockingham Speedway. Version S3 won’t be free, pricing will differ depending on your current license level.

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • Anonymous

    I really don’t know what to make of this at this point, but I hope LFS comes back swinging.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Siggers Ross Siggers

    Maybe the current buzz of sim racing development has stirred Live for Speed…

  • M C

    To sum up there’s no progress =)

  • http://openid.wp.pl/knifesedge Knifesedge

    That’s a joke, not a progress report.

  • Anonymous

    don’t hold your breath for this game….

    lfs forum members have started to lose faith as well

    nothing but disappointment over there

    tells you all you need to know about lfs developers who have made lfs project a hobby

  • http://www.entropyxel.com/ Tuttle

    If you read the post…maybe you can understand.
    This tire mesh it’s not a standard mesh but it contains more layers; carcass, steel belts plies and cap plies. Every layer have a different physic reaction and different functions. This make the tire model much more complex and could give a better driving experience.

    I don’t know this game…but this is interesting stuff.

    • Anonymous

      find the difference between this report they released in 2010
      http://gyazo.com/100243042b16dab419a7469b245b090e

      and today report
      http://gyazo.com/20c841387d6ce14e198f584a23d64e71

      just copy paste from year ago

      • http://www.entropyxel.com/ Tuttle

        Honestly..I did not read same stuff on the two statements. Ok…they are a little bit slow and (maybe) boring..but It’s not a C&P.

        BTW, I don’t know LFS…so I can’t speak to much. I’ve just found this post interesting, from my point of view.

    • http://openid.wp.pl/knifesedge Knifesedge

      That’s not the actual model we will (hopefully) see in the game. It’s a virtual test-rig used to study tire behaviour and to develop some characteristics. Later this data will be used to make a simplified model for the game. What worries me is how accurate a tire physics can be if all measures are taken from computer generated simulations.
      At least that’s how I see it.

      • http://www.entropyxel.com/ Tuttle

        Thank you for this specification…

        About your question; I hope that the virtual test-rig is based on real data, as you can do by FEM or CFD analysis. Of course a realtime physic (as a sim) can’t manage the same amount of data…so I think they are working on a test-rig far more simplified.

        In this document you can see how complex the problem is:

        http://www.mate.tue.nl/mate/pdfs/8147.pdf 

  • Ricoo

    The best sim soon back for the next revolution.  :)

  • http://twitter.com/Trux1 Trux1

    As I just posted on the LFS forums, Last night I was reading a back issue of AutoSimSport (available here 
    http://www.autosimsport.net/backissues.php).
    It was an issue from 2005 and contained a review of S2. It’s suprising how little the sim has changed really since then but it’s still here and still holds up today against other sims released around that time. 

    I own LFS and still run it occasionally just as I run GTR 2, GTL, Race 07 and iRacing. It’s still a great sim and looks just fine on my rig. 

    Theirs another A.S.S issue from around that time (can’t remember which one, but it’s on the link above) that contains an interview with Scawen where he says S3 will be some time.

    Little did we know eh? :)

  • Vette Man

    Scawen and Kaemmer know how difficult creating a theoretical new tire model can be.  I feel sorry for them at times when some people think it should be easy.  Keep plugging Scawen.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, I think these two models will be very interesting to compare. They seem to be nearly identical in their fundamental goals (to plug in tire width, sidewall size, construction, compound, etc and get the tire equations out), so it will be nice to compare the implementations.

      On the topic, I’m pretty surprised that the modder-friendly sims haven’t approached their tire models from this direction. One would think that being able to plug in physical characteristics would result in more consistently good tires across mods. On the other hand, perhaps everyone in the industry is waiting to see if Scawen and/or DK can pull off the models before tackling it themselves.

      • Anonymous

        DK = 100% marketing 

      • http://www.facebook.com/laurent.cortier Laurent Cortier

        Nice argumentation, thanks for bringing so much to the debate !

      • General Rush Hour

        Batman991 = I´m poor so i´ll hate on iRacing. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/laurent.cortier Laurent Cortier

        Any ideas as of how ISI did it for rF2 ? Or how Kunos will do it for Assetto Corsa ? Or even how the tyre model is implemented in the C.A.R.S. project ? I believe Scawen and Kaemmer are not the only real physics developers left in the game… 

      • Anonymous

        I highly doubt CARS is doing anything sophisticated, and I suspect Kunos will stick with his brush model or it would have been in the AC powerpoint ;)

        I guess we’ll know soon how ISI did it when the Beta comes out and people start modding.

    • http://twitter.com/Michael_42 Michael

      Trouble is, there’s very little point developing anything that takes so long especially at the expense of writing something worth buying and playing.

      Even assuming they got the absolute best sim tyre experience you could ever get (which is unlikely) they’d still basically have a pretty much dull, unpolished, content free game.

      More or less the same problem that many of these half-assed sims have that feel and look like they were written in a bedroom by one guy. That’s fun for him, perhaps, but it doesn’t really create a good game. Years ago perhaps it did.

      Netkar pro is pretty similar. They lack content, polish and being finished. Even with Ferrari’s input, it’s still not quite a game. But at least netkar pro has, with whatever tyre model they have, got it to a finished state before they looked more ridiculous than the guys writing duke nukem.

      Really they should join together. The world doesn’t need 1 half-finished, content free sim, let alone a bunch of them. If they could write 1 half-decent game between them that would be better for everyone. It might even sell – although I think the current crop of racing games that are having money and time thrown at them will make it tough for anyone else.

      But, whatever tyre model you decide on, the industry sets the benchmark for developing a finished game and I’m sure that time was up quite a while ago – fine as a hobby but if you’ve paying customers you’ve promised updates to, they’d have been better finishing a good tyre model rather than not finishing a perfect one (not the least because it won’t be)

      OTOH, the reason behind the tyre model in the first place was because they tried to add a new car and couldn’t get it to handle well. Perhaps time to call it a day

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