Tifose:…lame…

Sorry, but I cannot treat seriously anything that has this word in it.

Ferrari fans always have a go at Montoya because he was the only driver that rattled Schumi at one point, and he is after all still the fastest man in F1. (Monza 2003?)

PS.Montoya was good in F1 but for how long? always crashing into someone always mouthing up and he started putting on size but he will give his reason for coming to NASCAR but he’s sure not miss in F1!

Mikec87: Mikec87

Montoya was clearly a quick driver in F1 taking many poles and several wins. He is certainly a lot more talented than several drivers on the grid at the moment.

I’m from Scotland, and it’s only recently that Nascar has been decently televised here on Sky Sports. Before that the only exposure I got was from Autosport.

My first motorsport love was F1. However that has gone down the toilet over the last decade and since my late teens (late 90′s) I started to watch more bike racing and tin-top racing. Both of which offer a closer racing and a better spectacle than F1.

I then started to watch Nascar a couple of years ago. It’s not without it’s flaws, but it’s a great sport. And just because they “only” go round in circles most of the time that does not make it easy. You want to read some of the comments of the many european drivers that have given stock racing a go before making ignorant comments about stock car racing. None of them say it’s easy or are in anyway disrespectful towards it.

The nature of the car and racing means it requires a very different skillset to driving single seater cars, or even european touring cars. Regardless of weather you find the sport interesting or not, it is not easy. These guys have a lot of talent.

As for Gordon’s drive in an F1 car… He was brought up on oval racing and to my knowledge did very little open wheel racing, certainly nothing comapred to F3, GP3, F1 etc etc. If you cannot see how well he did driving an F1 car for only handful of laps you are bit of lost cause I guess.

Mikec87:
Montoya didn’t ditch F1. F1 ditched him. One of the most selfish, rude, arrogant morons that has ever sat in a race car of any type.

I thought that ‘honor’ went to Ralf Schumacher? Just add ‘whining p***y’ to the mix.

Thanks for your post, tigeraid.

ermax18: Montoya is an —. Remember this video?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2eu-V57zpc

Haha I remember that, couldnt stop laughing. You broke my *CENSORED* head!

Paul Kelly: Gordon was not way off the pace. He was only two or three seconds behind Montoya’s lap times in that car, and it was his first day ever in an F1 car.

Gordon was 6.5 seconds off of that years pole time, he was 1.33 seconds off Montoya’s Shakedown lap from that morning

http://gordonline.com/archive/061203.html

stabiz: Schumi fan, I reckon?

Yes a bit, but really a Webber fan. I have watched F1 since the 80s and Montoya was not popular in his own teams and and was pushed out of F1. I saw him come in to F1 and his whole career and watched him leave. The guy can drive, but is too much of a loose canon. Just look how he behaved last week end.

I doubt the typical NASCAR haters will ever let go of their stereotypes…it’s just too easy to bash something you´re not willing to understand.

Mikec87:
Montoya didn’t ditch F1. F1 ditched him. One of the most selfish, rude, arrogant morons that has ever sat in a race car of any type.

Schumi fan, I reckon?

You want the best stockcar racing in the world, check out the NASCAR Canadian Tire Series, or the NASCAR Camping World Truck Series.

Forgive me Montoya, but I’ll get up on a soapbox now and re-paste my favourite rant to people like him.

I’ve been a stockcar racer since I was 14. Idiots like him are nothing less than personally insulting.

First off, I’m not a redneck. I’m 28, a homeowner with two cars, a college diplome in computer sciences. I wear t-shirts and jeans, I listen to metal, classic rock, hard rock, and classical music. I despise country and western music. I live in the middle of a busy urban city. I speak excellent English and none of my teeth are missing.

Here we go.

There are still a lot of people who just don’t “get” oval track racing. I’m not talking about NASCAR, but stockcar racing in general (funny how they never mention how much they hate OPEN WHEEL oval track racing). I will not disagree that NASCAR has gotten “commercialized” or “too pop” or whatever else, but for me that means more chances to watch some of the best racing in the world. I love all forms of racing, but I grew up around oval tracks and learned to drive in a stockcar, so I have a deeper understanding of our sport–which is what allows me to enjoy it. So, with a deep breath, I’ll attempt to counter all the exceedingly retarded arguments against our sport (that are sometimes given in an intelligent manner, often not.)

1. “They’re a buncha rednecks”

It amazes me that in this day and age that stockcar-bashers still use this. What’s odd is that I find they say it about NASCAR in particular, but not any other stockcar series. I’m Canadian; we have rednecks up here, they just talk different, so I know the deal. Fact is, stockcar racing was invented by rednecks, so the stereotype used to hold merit. USED to. Consider how many drivers in Winston Cup in particular would qualify as a stereotypical redneck? Ryan Newman? He has a university degree in engineering and speaks perfect english. Matt Kenseth, Jeff Gordon, Jeff Burton, Kevin Harvick, Kyle and Kurt Busch… None of these guys chew tobacco, have southern accents or have trouble with the english language. There are very few “good ol’ boys” left in NASCAR, which actually worries some of the old-school fans. Guys like Sterling Marlin are a dying breed in the sport. It’s a stereotype that simply isn’t true anymore.

2. “It’s just going in circles, it’s always turning left!”

First of all, no it’s not. Many stockcar and Modified divisions, including Winston Cup, race on road courses. Winston Cup has a rich history at road courses, such as:

Riverside International
Watkins Glen
Sonoma
Lime Rock Park
Portland International Raceway
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez
Trois-Riveries
Mosport International
Edmonton Indy
Toronto Indy

Second of all, it’s not “just turning left”. People think because the track only has 4 corners and they’re all left, that it’s somehow boring or inferior. Since when does the direction or number of corners matter? Difficulty, challenge, and passing opportunities are what matter.

Every single oval track is different, and every corner on an oval is different (or pairs of corners), they just happen to go in the same direction. Saying that Rockingham is anything at all like Pocano is absurd. There are far far greater factors in the corners and how to take them. Banking, weather/temperature changes, surface type (concrete, asphalt, dirt, rough or smooth), transitions on an off the straights, corner radius, width of the track, where the groove is, etc etc …

It’s understanding these differences and how the track is working that makes watching “cars just turning left” enjoyable. Picking your line through the turns on an oval track is just as difficult and important as a proper apex through a turn on a road course. Here’s some examples of radically different tracks:

1. Daytona – 2.5 miles, very high banking, very wide track, asphalt, basically flat out the entire lap. Handling, despite what many think, is important here, but not overall car balance. The key to getting around the corners here is in, obviously, aerodynamics, but also the shock and spring package and how it works with the car bottoming out in relation to downforce and the banking. The track is terrifying.

2. Bristol – 0.5 Mile, very high banking, concrete. Incredibly small track with incredibly high speeds, very hard to get the setup right in terms of traction, tires very important here. A lap is in the 14 second range, so you can never, ever EVER relax or get “bored.”

3. Pocano – 2.5 Mile tri-oval, and depending who you talk to, has either 3 or 5 turns. Relatively flat, asphalt. Many drivers treat it like a road course, as the chassis acts completely differently in each turn, and even requires shifting through one turn. On the North Straight they only hit about 150 mph, but on the Main Straight (longest straightaway in Cup at 3740 ft) they hit over 200 mph. Very very hard track to set up for.

4. California – 2 mile flat oval, asphalt (the old layout). Why is this different than, say, Daytona? Because it’s essentially NASCAR’s fastest top speed track (as opposed to average speed), hitting 205 mph on the front stretch, then careening into nearly flat corners and drifting wide. Heavy braking not really required thanks to the width of the corners, but very drastic difference in speed into the corners.

5. Martinsville – 0.5 Mile, almost totally flat corners, mixture of concrete and asphalt, smallest track on Cup circuit. Incredibly tight conditions, very small track with very thin corners and straights, very very hard to pass on. Hard on tires, hard to set up for, INCREDIBLY hard on brakes. A driver with the ability to conserve brakes will win here. Darrel Waltrip was a master at this.

Those are just a few examples of what I mean when I talk about the differences. Yes, they all turn left. Yes, it’s mostly a round track…. but so what.

AND they race on road courses. And btw, they have “road course racers” show up at every race, “ringers” as they’re called, like Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Andy Lally and others. Despite this, a road course ringer hasn’t won a Cup race on a road course in about 30 years. Why? Maybe because there are some damn good road racers in NASCAR.

3. “Stockcar racing sucks cuz it’s low tech!”

Difficult to argue, but realise that in general, NASCAR is low tech, not stockcars. Check out the ASA series if you want to see high tech, they run spec fuel injected LS1 engines–or any number of other series. USAC is currently introducing a sealed 4 cylinder crate engine that runs fuel injection.

I understand some fans concerns for lack of technology, but stockcar racing has never been about technological breakthroughs, it’s been about the racing.

There are two schools of fans: those who watch racing to see drivers race against drivers, and those who watch to see cars race against cars. Fans of ALMS, 24 hrs LeMans, and Formula 1 watch cars race against cars. Fans of SPEED Touring Cars, stockcar racing, IRL (I suppose), etc etc watch it for drivers to race against drivers.

I happen to enjoy both, which is why I watch ALL forms of racing. But I PREFER driver vs driver, and stockcar racing is tops in the world for that without a doubt. Here’s a video clip of the finish to the spring Darlington race between Craven and Busch. That’s what racing is about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4vSWywWg8

If NASCAR allowed “technological development” by the teams, it wouldn’t be long before the big guns are building 30 billion dollar cars just like in Formula 1, and one or two drivers would win every single race in the season by lapping the entire field, just like Formula 1. Great for those interested in technology–boring as hell racing. The FIA has realized this, and that’s why changes are happening in F1. It’s boring, and they’re working to fix that. And that’s why the last two seasons in F1 have been amazing.

Yes, Jimmie Johnson “dominated” Cup this season–but his record compared to F1 domination is paltry. 7 wins out of 36 races is a dream season in NASCAR–compared to Schumacher’s domination in Formula 1 that’s nothing. NASCAR still had 14 different winners this season.

4. “Stockcars aren’t even stock, therefore they suck!”

***(I wrote this based on pre-COT cars)***

This has gotta be the worst argument of them all, as it has absolutely no effect on the quality of racing at all. You’re right, they’re not stock. SO WHAT. They haven’t been since about 1971. The whole point to the word “stockcar” is not that it has to be 100% stock, but that it has to be based on a production car. Jeff Gordon’s Impala may not be the kind you can buy at the dealer, but the body style is similar, and the car underneath is, essentially, a 70s a/g-body chassis and suspension, on a tube frame platform. And most importantly, it has a Chevy engine. Yes it’s built by Hendrick Motorsports, but it’s a Chevy engine with 95% off-the-shelf Chevy parts. You can go out right now and (for a ton of money) buy everything you need to build an SB2.2 for your street car. Prolly won’t be tuned quite as nicely as his though :P ….

Seriously, I’ve heard some people actually say they’d LOVE to see cars CURRENTLY from the factory race on an oval track. Are you insane!? Nobody wants to see a wheezing 160 hp, front wheel drive v6 turd driving around a 2.5 mile oval. Not only that, but the racing would be pretty unbalanced.

So they say “well get the factory’s back into it, and they’ll build cars for stockcar racing!” Bull. Manufacturers today want to sell their family sedans and economy cars, and that means slow, front wheel drive econoboxes. If NASCAR went to GM today and said “we want you to build a rear wheel drive, carbureted v8 powered Monte Carlo” they’d laugh their asses off at them. That’s not whatstockcar racing is about. It’s about basing it on cars you could build on the street. Tube frame was just a natural progression.

As it stands, stockcars are MORE stock than NON stock cars. They don’t call Schumacher’s Ferrari a stockcar because you literally cannot have any part of it in a street car, it doesn’t resemble a street car, and you couldn’t drive it on the street. They call Gordon’s Impala a stockcar because it’s based on a previous generation of the Impala, it’s RWD, and you can buy every part off the shelf. Hell, Cup cars even have steel bodies. Grow up. As with the previous point, not every race fan cares what KIND of car is being raced, only that the racing is good.

HAVING SAID THAT, the current “Car of Tomorrow” is awful, and ugly, and hardly has any resemblance to the factory shape. Ideally, I’d love to see them go back to factory-based bodies on a tube frame car.

5. “How can you watch them go around in circles, it’s so boring!”

The same reason lots of fans can appreciate a 4 second 1/4 mile run in drag racing, or rally fans can appreciate a minute and a half of footage of someone driving across the desert in the Paris-Dakaar. Because you don’t give it a chance or understand what’s actually happening, you can’t enjoy what you see.

Being that I not only understand oval track racing but have done it myself for several years, I enjoy watching how the cars are reacting to the track surface, who is improving their chassis setup as the race progresses, what kind of pit strategy is involved, who’s running what line around the track, etc etc… not just the close battles to the finish. This is just as interesting and compelling as any other kind of racing, even if they are going in circles for 500 miles (or on the road courses, I repeat yet again…)

6. “Stockcar drivers have no skill, it’s not real racing”

This is the one that the real snobby, close-minded pricks like felipe use, and the one that insults me personally, being a racer myself. It’s absolutely absurd to think that ANY racing in the world doesn’t require skill. It’s the same stupid argument that says drag racing doesn’t require skill either. Fact is, different forms of racing require different forms of skill, but lots of skill nontheless. In terms of pure and simple car handling, stockcar drivers in general do suck, compared to WRC drivers. But Formula 1 drivers would suck compared to them to. Here’s the way I see it:

Rally Racers – ultimate in car control, period, bar none, on any surface

Road Racers – ultimate in consistency, nailing your marks, hitting the apexes etc… since far less passing and side-by-side racing occurs, especially in Formula 1, god knows you rarely have another car to worry about when lapping.

Drag Racers – ultimate reflexes and timing, ability to handle ridiculous hp with their right foot in terms of traction

Oval Track Racers – we’re the ultimate in traffic management, being able to go fast with 40 cars less than 5″ away from you, unlike any other kind of racing. We also tend to be very good in fuel conservation (we can’t “turn down the wick” like high tech cars), and also know how to deal with beating and banging and still come out with a car that can win.

Without a doubt too, stockcar racers in particular are the ultimate at dealing with shitty cars. You think it doesn’t take skill to toss a 3600 pound, 9″ tire car with 850 hp around on a knife edge at 190 mph? You’re insane. We have a different skill, not a lack of skill. Put Micheal Schumacher in Jeff Gordon’s car, and dump him in the middle of a race at Bristol. Guaranteed, he’d be in the wall in less than 20 laps, more than likely spinning himself out to get there, as he’s never in his life even come close to driving a car that handles so poorly compared to OTHER cars.

Much the same, I feel most stockcar drivers would spin out in the first lap driving a Formula 1 car. That’s why the true greats are those that can transcend a given type of racing for all of them. Mario Andretti, AJ Foyt, Dan Gurney, and the like proved this.

And what a lot of people don’t realize is that a lot of NASCAR drivers have proven it too. Dale Earnhardt was successful for years in IROC (the real IROC too, on road courses), and also successful racing in the ALMS series for a brief period. Mark Martin is a 4-time IROC champion, and has won class in IMSA GTP and the 24 Hours of Daytona driving Mustangs for Jack Roush. Jeff Gordon has proven he has what it takes, even winning in the Race of Champions rally race over the pond. Tony Stewart can literally drive anything with wheels, and still does. There’s lots of great examples.

And I love to point out how, in the 30 year+ history of the International Race of Champions, that exactly TWO Formula 1 drivers have won *a* race. And one of those is Mario Andretti, who won everything, so he doesn’t count. THIRTY YEARS worth of racing with big names from Formula 1 and sports cars all over the world, and none of them did ANYTHING in series with equal cars, raced on road courses. (IROC started to suck when it went all oval, in my opinion.)

gears: “I started following NASCAR in 2006 when Juan Montoya first announced intentions to ditch F1 for the world’s best racing.”World’s best racing????? Hehe just kidding I’m an American and I hate NASCAR, but I have to admit, 4 in a row is amazing

Montoya didn’t ditch F1. F1 ditched him. One of the most selfish, rude, arrogant morons that has ever sat in a race car of any type.

I try to avoid the race intros, though, as that Hollywood style/super hero stuff really makes me cringe.

Paul Kelly:
Gordon was not way off the pace. He was only two or three seconds behind Montoya’s lap times in that car, and it was his first day ever in an F1 car.

If I remember correctly they never gave exact times. If I recall they just said he was almost fast enough to make the grid for last weeks race. Which would mean he didn’t make the %110 cut. So if Montoya had pole (which he often did back then) then Gordon was more then 3 secs off Montoya’s pace. But even if it was just 3secs. That is a big gap on such a fast track in an F1 car. If I recall F1 ran around a 1:13 at Indy.

I wanted Mark Martin to win the championship after all these years, but Jimmie Johnson was strongest again. Congratulations to JJ and #48 team for their 4th consecutive title.

Paul Kelly:
Gordon was not way off the pace. He was only two or three seconds behind Montoya’s lap times in that car, and it was his first day ever in an F1 car.

2 or 3 seconds is an eternity in an F1 car.talented drivers have speed no matter what vehicle it is!

ermax18Sure a RC driver may not do well on an oval but an oval driver doesn’t necessarily do well on a road course either.Also, that SpeedVision show where Jeff Gordan drove an F1 car didn’t prove him to be a good F1 driver. He was still way off the pace.

Gordon was not way off the pace. He was only two or three seconds behind Montoya’s lap times in that car, and it was his first day ever in an F1 car.