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Stealing Frank’s work is beyond awful. But that’s not even all…

Look at that video! I 100% guarantee beyond a shadow of a doubt that that’s at the very least based on Simbin’s Istanbul

(if you’re not spotting it, the curbs are probably the easiest way to spot it, what with being slightly different from the real ones but EXACTLY like the simbin ones)

are they making any money of these videos? also they dont steal, they use it to show how to tackle the track, they never claimed its their work? Im all for ‘credit where credit is due’ but I mean comeon? they doesnt even show that they are using rFactor, should we speculate that they have stolen that game aswell then?

hey mark webber..nice driving..in real life..you arent to fast for me…:)
how the hell is your boss…give me a break…im better driver than you and ok i understand that is only game but whatta ….!too slow

SergeantBoner: SergeantBoner

SergeantBoner: are they making any money of these videos? also they dont steal, they use it to show how to tackle the track, they never claimed its their work? Im all for ‘credit where credit is due’ but I mean comeon? they doesnt even show that they are using rFactor, should we speculate that they have stolen that game aswell then?

I agree. And WCP09 mod should be mentioned

You guys should do some research before dismissing the fact that they use rFactor Pro ;)

Here’s a quote from Adrian Newey

“Crucially, rFactor Pro allows us to run our own vehicle model, into which we have invested many man years, while providing a completely immersive experience, interfacing to our chassis code, motion hardware and track-side systems.”

who cares who’s work it is,
whoever edited the video needs to be shot.
every single one of these gay redbull videos, they frantically cut back and forth between webber, the video screen (which is what we all want to bloody see) and then this RIDICULOUS STUPID graphic of the circuit in a simplified Tron style formation, with an arrow. WHY WOULD WE WANT TO SEE THAT WHEN WE CAN SEE THE VIRTUAL SIM THAT WEBBER IS PLAYING ON?

i hate redbull, all extreme sport tw*ts. whoever made this video is a complete retard.

Typical that RB needs to ask Frank for permission. Did Frank ask GP4 for permission?

What does Adrian Newey mean with “track-side systems” ?

agy83: hey mark webber..nice driving..in real life..you arent to fast for me…:)
how the hell is your boss…give me a break…im better driver than you and ok i understand that is only game but whatta ….!too slow

Are you leading the Formula 1 world Championship?

Agy = Vettel?

Lol wtf is going on in here?

Did Frank make any of these tracks from scratch? Probably not. He most likely used a base from an existing sim and updated some textures. So with that..why would Red Bull need to compensate him? The should compensate the original sim it came from and not the modder.

They are also not profiting from the videos so I fail to see the point of paying a modder.

This is another example of the hypocrisy of the modding community. Stealing original work, modding it then claiming its as original.

Without engaging in this discussion too much, it’s simply wrong to say Red Bull does not profit from these videos.

They are a marketing tool to sell their drink, just like their whole F1 team is. And they can’t just use third-party stuff for advertising like this. I obviously don’t know the specifics but they should have asked both Microprose and Frank Alexandre for permission.

Micropose for creating the original track and Frank Alexandre for making the necessary changes that made the tracks interesting for them. Maybe they have an agreement with Microprose and other studios whose materials have been used, but if they don’t than this disappointing for sure.

Frank never claimed he made the tracks from scratch but he made significant changes to them that made the tracks usable for Red Bull in the first place. The raw GP4 tracks would be useless for their simulator, therefore they are using his work for commercial purposes (both advertising and training their drivers etc.)

hey are a marketing tool to sell their drink,

What? Really? That video is really selling people on Red Bull and not the fact that the Red Bull logo is plastered on everything from Hong Kong to Abu Dhabi? You are smoking something you should really be selling man. All promotion videos are marketing or they wouldn’t be making them. But those same customers they are marketing too are coming from Red Bull directed sites.

And to your point they profit..WHO CARES. Frank didn’t make crap except some extra textures. When he has the talent and ability to make something from scratch then I will back him to get paid..until then..he is still ripping off someone else’s work. If he wants to pay Micropose first so that he can get paid..fine. Until then..give it a rest.

Scuderia Ecosse:
Are you leading the Formula 1 world Championship?

what a retard argument.

not everyone has a spare 120k lieing about in their parents bank accounts to start them off in formula renault. or a spare 60k needed for formula ford. Or a spare 30k needed for national level karting.
there are thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who would be every bit as good as the 20 drivers on that grid. its just that 98% of the population dont have the wealth of the highest 2%.

just because we’re not f1 drivers, like f1 commentators, and f1 journalists, you can still analyse and judge driving characteristics and how a car has been driven from tv visuals and some common sense.

no doubt webber/vettel etc… are definitely one of the top drivers in the world, they wouldn’t be in f1 if they weren’t. its just theres many MANY more in lower ranks, who could have got there if they had the funding. and countless more who never even get the chance.

but how would i know? im not leading the f1 championship obviously.

Ye you should be in the Redbull team eiwfihaaa.

Can we get over the whole “stealing” issue in the modding community. It is old and played out. If you want to get paid for your work I guess you need to join a company that makes games. I am sure Red Bull F1 has better thing on their minds than paying frank alexandre for using his track. It makes me laugh that he would even complain about it. Shows his true colors;)

He didn’t complain at all, he just pointed it out.

dlaird8: I am sure Red Bull F1 has better thing on their minds than paying frank alexandre for using his track.It makes me laugh that he would even complain about it.Shows his true colors;)

Its not even “his” track

agy83: hey mark webber..nice driving..in real life..you arent to fast for me…:)how the hell is your boss…give me a break…im better driver than you and ok i understand that is only game but whatta ….!too slow

LOL…Whos is in the F1 car? Mark webber would humiliate you.

Montoya: He didn’t complain at all, he just pointed it out.

He has been complaining. I have seen links on the net.

So they use the tracks in their simulator…. isn’t that what we all do?

Maybe if it was something you made 100% from scratch under license from the track owners/sponsors you would have an argument. Right now you have nothing.

issoisso: Stealing Frank’s work is beyond awful. But that’s not even all…Look at that video! I 100% guarantee beyond a shadow of a doubt that that’s at the very least based on Simbin’s Istanbul (if you’re not spotting it, the curbs are probably the easiest way to spot it, what with being slightly different from the real ones but EXACTLY like the simbin ones)

Seriously who cares. If anything they are promoting simbin and the modding community.

Montoya: Without engaging in this discussion too much, it’s simply wrong to say Red Bull does not profit from these videos.They are a marketing tool to sell their drink, just like their whole F1 team is. And they can’t just use third-party stuff for advertising like this. I obviously don’t know the specifics but they should have asked both Microprose and Frank Alexandre for permission.Micropose for creating the original track and Frank Alexandre for making the necessary changes that made the tracks interesting for them. Maybe they have an agreement with Microprose and other studios whose materials have been used, but if they don’t than this disappointing for sure.Frank never claimed he made the tracks from scratch but he made significant changes to them that made the tracks usable for Red Bull in the first place. The raw GP4 tracks would be useless for their simulator, therefore they are using his work for commercial purposes (both advertising and training their drivers etc.)

LOL….In a perfect world this would make sense. Unfortunately, RBR F1 team could give two sh!ts about Frank and GP4. If Frank is looking for credit he is in the wrong business.

I guess i’m different, But i would be honoured to have Red Bull Racing using my creation, Imho

I dont think Redbull is stealing my work but i believe there are someone there getting the money to setup the tracks for them. Yes, i dont have autorization to use GP4 tracks but i have spend a lot of my life time to get this convertions up to Rfactor standard. If anyone use it im happy with it, but im not happy with people selling $5.000/$10.000 simulator machines including the tracks in the package as their work. Yes, Istambul on this video is not mine conversion, but they have used Albert Park and Monaco and will use Interlagos for sure, the same for other GP4 conversions at RFCentral.

I don’t see the use of the track as a big deal. It’s just a video. As mentioned, they’re just as welcome to download and use tracks as the rest of us. Quite a compliment really.

Of course, this does sort of cast a bit of doubt on the legitimacy of the whole “RBR’s high-end professional (etc.) rFactor Pro based training simulator” notion. If they were really seriously investing in the technology, it would seem getting some highly accurate custom tracks wouldn’t be that big a deal relative to the cost of the whole project (accurate track models probably being very near the top of priorities). Of course, you could also read it like what’s already publicly available is up to the standard, so why bother.

Then again, these videos aren’t necessarily of their (presumably existent) actual training equipment that itself may well be all tricked out custom rFPro whatever, but rather just their demonstration/public relations rig.

It would be interesting to know the details.

Frankalexandre: Yes, i dont have autorization to use GP4 tracks but i have spend a lot of my life time to get this convertions up to Rfactor standard.

If I steal a Ferrari Enzo from somebody in my neighborhood and spent the rest of my years repainting it, adding some fancy spoilers, and a lot of dedication its all of a sudden my Ferrari?

Well they can advertise all they want with Redbull.
It’s still one of the most disgusting drinks out there.

That is a very poor analogy.

Frankalexandre: If anyone use it im happy with it, but im not happy with people selling $5.000/$10.000 simulator machines including the tracks in the package as their work.

having spoken to people that have rFactor pro I know for a fact that tracks are not included in the package. Please check your facts before making wild accusations.

I think they use Frankalexandre track because they don´t want to show their real “tech” and secrets. If you look carefully they don´t use the same gear they say.

Frank, next track you do, fill it with banners with your name . if you still want to work for this ungrateful gang of simmers

lool indeed.

Anyway the point of this video is for us to learn… hmm something

If Franks tracks were scratch made, he’d have a completely valid argument against Red Bull for sure.
But as they’re not scratch and based on tracks from a commercial product (in this case GP4), it doesn’t give you much of a leg to stand on any more.

I find it very hypocritical when people who mod stuff like tracks from say a Simbin product to rFactor with their own enhancements to it etc. complain when someone rips that to another sim or like what Red Bull allegedly have done.
Both parties are as guilty as the other.

Might not be the popular view, but I can’t help that.

the track that RedBull is using in the video is based on the RACE07 version by Simbin, easy to spot for me as i have done alot of laps on it.

Besides complaining on forums and such, has anyone actually contacted Red Bull Racing directly about this issue? If not, stop complaining. If yes.. then show us the response :)

Thanks all for the good morning laugh. I’ll be looking for your track conversions, Frank. Now that I know they are so well favored. Now back to trying to get softTH working with rFactor and my new 3 monitor setup.

- Who is rear the rF-PRO project?
- Are ISI the ultimate responsible of this software?
- The Racing Teams are using on their rF-PRO simulators some tracks made by the Sim Community, or rF-Pro Staff provides specific scratch made tracks?

I’m not sure if RB are responsible to use Micropose conversion or rF-Pro staff to offer them….

rF pro doesn’t come with the tracks. They are free to download what they like just like we do with the standard rfactor. As usual a big deal is being made out of something that isn’t.

I just find it funny that real-world racing benefits from the sim world and not just the other way round

scca1981: rF pro doesn’t come with the tracks.They are free to download what they like just like we do with the standard rfactor.As usual a big deal is being made out of something that isn’t.

Best post of the day!
I agree with you, people overreact easily…

@Firefox: Not necessarily. Take iDT for example. They make tracks from scratch and use photos they have taken themselves for this purpose. Doug has stated several times that they will take action (and have done so in the past) if these tracks (which they make available to the community for free) are used in any commercial circumstance. Free to download does not mean you can do whatever you want. However, the situation in this particular case (RB Simulator) is not exactly what I described above.

It’s the track from Race’07 [img]http://smiles.kolobok.us/big_standart/dance2.gif[/img]

scca1981: rF pro doesn’t come with the tracks. They are free to download what they like just like we do with the standard rfactor. As usual a big deal is being made out of something that isn’t.

I agree…..

scca1981:
rF pro doesn’t come with the tracks.They are free to download what they like just like we do with the standard rfactor.As usual a big deal is being made out of something that isn’t.

That’s just the way it is. No one to be blamed there. They, or anyone else, could have bought the ordinary rFactor and use it as we all do, and record their videos over there, like many of us do record videos of us driving. It just happens that in one of these vids it’s Mark Webber behind the wheel. In one interwiev in “F1 racing” magazine, Kubica mentioned he uses rFactor occasionally with his G25.

I’m liking that highest grade teams are “so close” to the sim racing, be it in a way they use tracks sim community uses. It shows how good the work done by community is.

eiwfihaaa:
what a retard argument.not everyone has a spare 120k lieing about in their parents bank accounts to start them off in formula renault. or a spare 60k needed for formula ford. Or a spare 30k needed for national level karting.
there are thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who would be every bit as good as the 20 drivers on that grid. its just that 98% of the population dont have the wealth of the highest 2%.just because we’re not f1 drivers, like f1 commentators, and f1 journalists, you can still analyse and judge driving characteristics and how a car has been driven from tv visuals and some common sense.no doubt webber/vettel etc… are definitely one of the top drivers in the world, they wouldn’t be in f1 if they weren’t. its just theres many MANY more in lower ranks, who could have got there if they had the funding. and countless more who never even get the chance.but how would i know? im not leading the f1 championship obviously.

haha well it seems that you think your better than Mark Webber, and your probably wrong. But who actually cares, this is a minor argument.

F1Racer: If Franks tracks were scratch made, he’d have a completely valid argument against Red Bull for sure.
But as they’re not scratch and based on tracks from a commercial product (in this case GP4), it doesn’t give you much of a leg to stand on any more.I find it very hypocritical when people who mod stuff like tracks from say a Simbin product to rFactor with their own enhancements to it etc. complain when someone rips that to another sim or like what Red Bull allegedly have done.
Both parties are as guilty as the other.Might not be the popular view, but I can’t help that.

This truth fact applies to the whole modding scene. Some very talented people create content from scratch, but the vast majority of what is available for rFactor is amended, remixed from the work of others.
I am always surprised, and I never understood how modders can disputed or flame themselves about what is who and who did what and when.
The funny thing is that these people are arguing about free content, and they have created it without buying Photoshop or 3DSmax, or in contradiction to the laws on copyright or right in the image held by the owners of rights Formula 1.
We are fortunate to enjoy a game whose content is made by gamers for gamers … why fight to own something free?
Personally, I’d be proud too that my work is used by F1 teams…
This would be free, but not really free?
I understand FrankAlexandre when he says he has spent much time working. Beautiful things do not occur in 5 minutes.
But i think distributed free, is free for all.

lovretta:
I’m liking that highest grade teams are “so close” to the sim racing, be it in a way they use tracks sim community uses. It shows how good the work done by community is.

True, that’s why we all love this game so much.

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