Posted on December 11th, 2009 in iRacing
iRacing subscriber Sam Hazim has put together a new reality check photo gallery, this time pairing up real-life photos side by side with footage from iRacing’s Road Atlanta track.
Once again, Sam has gone great lengths to demonstrate the accuracy of iRacing’s tracks, making screenshots that match both the exact angle of the photos and most of the on-track activity. More of Sam’s reality check galleries can be found here and here.
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Suarez10
December 11th, 2009 at 09:20
Nice comparison. iRacing needs to improve the lighting and shadow effects though, this way it’s much too sterile.
GTEvo
December 11th, 2009 at 10:48
Indeed..thats why i can be without iRacing..
a GuerillaMarketing Concept with same Grafical Standard like Isi since 2001, cannot tease me to follow them..however perfect they scan Tracks !
Rent a Game-Concept is customunfriendly !
Yes..those Comparisons amazed me, but nothing more..
DrumStick
December 11th, 2009 at 11:23
I like Iracing graphics (looks good in shots), but I dislike this “rent a game” concept, because I dont’t have enough time, to use their service. I prefer, if I have a game with box and that has full content. In Iracing you have to pay for a service + cars and tracks. I’m sad for that, because I like accurate tracks and real sim.
I hope, in a future they will release a full box version for offline play (practice with ai), and “rent a game” concept will stay only for online mode.
Gnomie
December 11th, 2009 at 11:41
They have said that they are working on a new lighting model. The one which is used now is only placeholder until they can get a better system in place. (Dave Kaemmer said so in a recent interview with SRT)
My guess is that they want to implement a dynamic lighting system soon, which allows night racing as well.
ermax18
December 11th, 2009 at 12:30
My guess is they want to implement the important stuff first. Eyecandy comes last.
FooAtari
December 11th, 2009 at 12:44
Give it up man. iRacing is the way it is for a reason. If you don’t like it drive something else. It really isn’t that hard.
Alex
December 11th, 2009 at 14:36
The profile of some of those curbs and corners looks rather wrong for laser scanned. Either that or the camera angles are wrong I guess.
marc1111
December 11th, 2009 at 15:01
I agree that the iRacing curbs look a bit flat compared to the real photos. Interesting because in iRacing, you have to avoid aggressive use of the apex curbs because they are high enough to significantly upset the car. Most of the exit curbs are usable.
Other than that, those photos are awesome. Amazing detail!
Paul Kelly
December 11th, 2009 at 16:04
There were seven gunmen on the grassy knoll Nov. 22, 1963 in Dallas, and the Apollo program was conducted on a soundstage in Burbank, Calif.
Give up the “guerrilla marketing” conspiracy theory crap, please.
Paul Kelly
December 11th, 2009 at 16:05
First off, no iRacing subscribers are sad for you because you want something that’s not going to happen. iRacing exists in its current form. Either try it, or quite your whining about it.
Gnomie
December 11th, 2009 at 19:14
Heres’s a quote from Shawn Nash (iRacing staff). So yeah, I guess this confirms what both of us are saying: they are definitely aware of the contrast/color stuff, but nobody can tell when they’ll release the update. :)
“There is an issue with contrast and color balance. We’re working on graphics updates that deal with that, and true HDR lighting, DOF blurr, etc. We’ve had higher priorities right now, but all of that stuff is on our todo list. I’ve been able to play around with the contrast and color balance and it makes a huge difference.
Our track surface shaders are very lame right now. :-) The only objects with shaders doing anything complicated are the cars.”
hoboracer
December 11th, 2009 at 19:55
Maybe the developers are interested in expanding their market share. I don’t think these complaining guys are all racing mario cart. Some of the stuff that is in every other sim, might be options to add to iRacing to help build the user base. I could be way off though. Maybe they want to stay a small niche group.
Lincoln Miner
December 11th, 2009 at 20:52
iRacing has the most accurate tracks in the sim industry down to the exact length, turn radius, camber, elevation, banking etc.
If you’d rather had HDR than tracks where every corner has subtlies that no other sim captures then have a nice day. I prefer corners where every inch matters as the tires scream for grip. The iRacing FFB is second to none and the tracks make it even better.
And as for the cars, iRacing doesn’t just create mods where every car uses the same exact garage setup screen and the new physics are just changes in an .ini file with a skin to make it look different. The mods are just skins with changes to an infi file. Need the weight balance more to the front. Adjust a slider. Huh?
iRacing scans and weighs the car, so the weight balance isn’t adjustable with a slider. The ride heights are adjustable with things like push and pull rods. And the aero on the Indy car isn’t adjustable by just wing front and wing back numbers, they have wickers on the bottom, sides, front and rear wings, width of wickers, side pods, side extensions and tire ramps.
All things found on an Indy car. iRacing builds cars, not mods on the same shell.
It’s that attention to detail in iRacing cars and laser scanned tracks, that some of us appreciate. Others care about specular highlights and HDR. I car about bumps, camber, turn radius and the little things that make each car different, not just a Legends car or F1 car with a tweaked .ini file and garage from a core physics and garage setup model built around a GT1 car or similar.
Many of you think, hey it’s just a track or hey, I have an Indy car mod in rFactor. It’s not the same, but many of you don’t realize or don’t car. There are no driving aids in iRacing. None, zip, nada.
I definitely realize iRacing is too hard to drive for many people, because they are looking for something easy with aids and the attention to detail is obviously lost on many when they spend their time bitching are HDR.
I love the iRacing community, because they care about these things. If you don’t, then don’t bother with iRacing. It’s not worth it.
GeraArg
December 11th, 2009 at 21:44
The track was remodeling after the scans of the staff of iRacing?
jux
December 11th, 2009 at 21:53
Another possibility: the graphical representation of the track surface is separate from the one used for physics, mostly because of performance issues. In many places you can see the tires going below the visible track surface or floating slightly above it.
Paul Kelly
December 11th, 2009 at 22:02
I was referring to the desire for an offline version of iRacing available on a physical medium.
Paul Kelly
December 11th, 2009 at 22:03
Lincoln: Your last post was brilliant. Spot-on. BRAVO!
Alex
December 11th, 2009 at 22:07
If that’s the case that’s quite a bit of a cop out. Doesnt take many polys by todays standards to accurately get the curb profiles right, or even little road dips.
fpol
December 11th, 2009 at 23:04
Sorry that’s bs…iracing isn’t *too hard*. Any semi competent simmer whether they drive GT4 or GTR2 or anything else can easily transition to iRacing…period. Shoot, i’d argue with it’s (inaccurate) knive edge tire model, GTR was *harder* than iRAcing at the limit…but people still drove it. Sorry mate – hard ain’t ‘real’ in the sense many people who’ve never turned a lap on a track seem to think it is. There’s a belief even among some slower iRacers that they’re somehow special and really, unless you’re in the Huttu/Towler/etc class, the ‘average’ iracer ain’t that special.
And since you mentioned it, please detail the attention to detail in the mechanical workings of the cars. Tell me of all the times you’ve flat spotted a tire in a Skip or SM when locking up? Ever blown a shift mechanically in the sim? Ever? Have you ever had to compensate for the ambient temperature rising or falling? Do you know (from iRacing) what to do if you get in the marbles on track? Yip – they’ve nailed every detail ok. Somehow with perfect physics, we *still* hear tire models getting upgraded, aero getting ‘fixed’ etc. We still see cars dragging their planks with apparently no real negative impact. Has anyone, ever, experienced brake fade? (Don’t give me Kaemer’s lame response about that either, it was to be charitable – misleading. If you watch real racing, or have done any HP driving on track you’ll know that in the real world brake fade HAPPENS). When you claim the sim has attention to detail unlike any other…then where are all these items?
You actually had a nice post outlining iRacing’s many great features, but IMHO blew it,turned off a bunch of people with your closing comment. It smacks of elitism and having looked you up, you’re no faster than i am! Since *I’m’ not fast, you’re not either, and believe me, there are TONS of race gamers/simmers out there who could blow us both away. You should be glad that they stay away ;)….don’t think it would be too hard for them.
fitz p
Koen
December 12th, 2009 at 00:01
How about automatic clutch.
Lincoln Miner
December 12th, 2009 at 00:05
Every sim is missing “details”. iRacing is no exception, but I stand by their track detail and their car detail. iRacing has work to be done in some areas, but mods in other sims are just .ini file changes and a new skin.
Unlock a boxed sim, iRacing is updating their models every 3 months. Next update may have an entirely new tire model. You’ve mentioned many times how pissed off you are about transmission modeling, but when I look at the variety of cars iRacing has released and what they have accomplished so far, I still put it ahead of the many mods on the market. The Indy car is a terrific example The setup options are outstanding. As are things like the working side position lights on the Vette and working fan in the back. Flat spots are needed, but so are wickers, side pod extensions and tire ramps etc on F1 mods in rFactor. And adjusting the front to rear weight balance with a slider isn’t very realistic is it? I hope you have as much interest in pointing out the missing detail in other sims.
As for people who want driving aids. Then I’d say iRacing in it’s current form don’t have that. And for those who love the perfectly smooth fictitious tracks or LFS or the modded rFactor tracks with turn radius, camber and elevation changes that are all wrong, then fine. If you don’t care about driving a track and knowing that bump or rut exists in the exact spot as the real life track then fine. iRacing is wasting their money on scanning.
Personally, I want to experience the same bumps and ruts I see on tv. Additionally, I like that so many iRacing turns have personality and subtleties.
Some people just look at these photos and try to find fault. They’re missing the big picture IMO. HDR? I sim race to feel connected to the car and iRacing has the best car physics, tracks and FFB. I feel much more connected and that works for me.
Sure the tranmission modeling needs work, but rFactor, GTR2 and LFS have more issues overall. That’s my opinion. I’ve enjoyed all 3 of those sims. Most here comment without every having driven the Skippy the Vette or the Dallara or an iRacing track.
Lastly, where did I say there weren’t people faster than me? I have an iRating of 2,000 +/-. That’s around top 30%. No alien by any stretch.
I know you’re a member and I know you’re the champion for transmission modeling. You may have missed it, but since you’re trying to say what Dave Kaemmer thinks, check out his last interview on Opinion Nation. All that you want he said is coming.
GeraArg
December 12th, 2009 at 00:05
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5409/ra11.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5651/ra6j.jpg
??
NombreyApellido
December 12th, 2009 at 00:15
The difference between an iRacing track and those that you can find in almost every other game, can be thought as the old sim vs arcade debate: focus put on physics or eyecandy. Most other games give you nice looking tracks, but they fail to represent the racing surface, the “physics” of the track. And in turn, they provide just a simplified experience, be it smooth as slick or bumpy as driving on polygons.
We’ll have a clear picture of this in a few months when Oran Park for iRacing is released so we can compare it to rFactor’s LIDAR version. I love the former but it lacks all the feeling that you get in some of iRacing tracks such as Lime Rock and Sebring. Now, I love the way tirewalls were laid in rFactor rendition: in iRacing they are pretty much perfectly stack together, which I think is not realistic looking at all.
Sure, weather changes will add a lot as will probably dirt and debris… They’ll be built over an already strong foundation and that’s what matters to me the most.
Regards,
/Chris
Raikku
December 12th, 2009 at 00:31
iRacing’s graphics are fine just how they are now. They much more “real life” looking than in other sims/games.
And, we really don’t need any “Crysis”-like situation to sim-side where nobody would have powerful enough pc to run some sim with reasonable performance.
And besides that… I never drive on rain, in any sim. I hate it.
Lincoln Miner
December 12th, 2009 at 00:51
Good point. iRacing does have auto clutch for those with pedals without a clutch. Hard to require a clutch when many users don’t have one.
Here’s a comparison of driving aids.
rfactor
Rules = Casual or Strict
Steering Help = off, low, medium, high
Opposite Lock = off, on
Braking help = off, low, high
Stability Control off, low, high
Spin Recovery = off, on
Vulnerability = off, on
Auto Shifting = off, upshifts, downshifts
Traction Control = off, low, medium, high
Anti-Lock Brakes = off, low, medium, high
Auto Pit Lane = off, on
Auto Clutch = off, on
Driving Views = Cockpit, Hood, Bumper, Roof/3rd person
Pit Speed Limiter = off, on
Launch Control = off, on
iRacing
Auto Clutch = off, on
Driving View = Cockpit only
So, yeah iRacing has auto clutch, but that’s it. rFactor has tons and tons of driving aids. You can set it up to practically drive the car for you. Wait, there is the AI driver, so you can set it up to drive for you. I’m not saying those are bad features, but a percentage of rFactor drivers want those.
And you can’t say no one uses those, because many do. They wouldn’t have spent the development resources adding them if people weren’t asking for them. Again, if you need that stuff iRacing isn’t for you.
Same thing on things like laser scanned tracks. If you care more about HDR than the proper bumps, camber, radius etc, then iRacing tracks are no better than an rFactor mod. Why spend the money?
And when iRacing does add ABS, it’s because the real life Solstice has it. When iRacing adds the working ALMS position lights on the side of the Vette that actually work to let the fans know what position the car is in, they actually work. If you think all Vette mods are the same and you should be able to have ABS, Traction Control and auto upshifting on your Vette then great, but iRacing doesn’t have that. It might not be for you.
Call it what you will, but iRacing in it’s current state doesn’t have all the driving aids of many other sims.
And when the COT runs at Daytona in iRacing the plate rules and all the setup rules are implemented by track.
Yeah, they still aren’t there yet, because the Indy cars use the restart rules of NASCAR, but show me a mod that matches the iRacing Indy car’s setup options.
iRacing isn’t a boxed sim and it’s not done yet, but each car has a ton of work put into it and it’s not an .ini file mod with a skin. Every 3 months iRacing has updates and the attention to detail is being focused as quickly as they can given their development staff.
Some day maybe iRacing will have tons of driving aids and roof/3rd person views etc, but for now if that’s what you’re looking for iRacing isn’t it. iRacing needs to be more beginner friendly, no question and they have videos coming out on a lot of topics to make it easier, but it’s still designed for the online only competitor at the moment who sees the value in the laser scanned tracks, cars and terrific FFB model etc.
And although I think iRacing tracks and graphics are terrific, if you need HDR lighting before you purchase, then iRacing isn’t for you.
To the guy who said the graphics are year 2001. I just say, sure if you think they look like 2001, then iRacing isn’t for you. So yeah, comments like that in this thread make me throw my hands up and realize there are a ton of people who just aren’t looking for the things iRacing is focusing on and that’s ok. iRacing isn’t for them.
Koen
December 12th, 2009 at 01:50
The problem I think is that people keep comparing iR with other sims as if they were in the same category. I think that the pricetag for iRacing puts it in completely different category and it would be ridiculous if it had offered similar quality to rFactor or LFS. Nobody denies that iRacing has got some great features like very good physics, amazing track quality and force feedback. Some features are worse compared to “mainstream” sims. It “costs” much more, so expectations are much higher. And it’s a matter of personal opinion to judge if it’s worth it. Personally what puts me off the most is that first you have to BUY THE POSSIBILITY to rent the content you like. And there’s not much content attractive for European customer, iRacing is clearly focused on USA. I know that there are few European tracks (no cars?) coming in the future, but I’m basing my judgement on what’s available at present.
NombreyApellido
December 12th, 2009 at 02:04
I wouldn’t say that a Lotus 79 is “American”. Neither a Radical SR8.
And about tracks, you should check Brands Hatch latests teaser shots.
iRacing is not just another game that happens to be more expensive. It’s a full simracing service that includes everything that is handled by the end user in stand alone games, such as: server set up, stats, match making system, rules enforcement, forum, fan page, etc…
You’re right, it’s not fair to compare it to a boxed, stand alone game: you get much much more from iRacing.
/Chris
Lincoln Miner
December 12th, 2009 at 02:25
Koen, yea you make good points. It depends on what you are looking for if it’s a value for any individual. It does some things incredibly well and falls short of existing sims in other ares, like animated pit crews or flat spots like LFS.
You might be happy to know Brands Hatch is likely coming out in 1 to 2 weeks. Just saw a post by Greg Hill of iRacing.
I believe they do need more Euro/Intl cars and tracks. They do have the Jetta VW TDI, but Porsche, Ferrari, Audi would be great. Euro/Intl tracks are coming. Brands Hatch was a surprise that it’s ready so soon. Zandvoort, Oulten, and Zolder are under way as well.
free2game365
December 12th, 2009 at 04:30
I never got why people think things like HDR are hard to enable. Maybe a bit difficult to develop a really perfect system, but it’s not exactly rocket science to integrate it into a renderer. That and iracing isn’t really that hard to drive compared to any other sim. It actually has more realistic grip levels than a lot of sims which makes it easier to some extent.
quinncidence
December 12th, 2009 at 20:43
I don’t understand why all the hating towards driving aids? Did you know that the real-life Vette has traction control? I hope this doesn’t come as a shock to too many people, but a good number of the buttons on real driver’s steering wheels are, wait for it…driving aids!!
I’m not going to knock iRacing for not having driving aids (yet, they will). It is a beautiful WIP. I will knock the elitist misconception that including them in a sim cheapens the experience. If I’m simming an ALMS session that I want to make as real as possible, I map TC settings to my wheel and adjust acordingly during a race. If I’m playing a current F1 mod, I turn off TC. I do this because I am trying to simulate the actual experience of driving the vehicle!!
The same goes with ABS, LSD, pit limiters, etc. They all exist in real racing, most CAME from racing, and they should all be simmed accordingly to provide an experience as close to reality as possible!
And to be clear, I love iRacing. Their laser scanned tracks are far superior to any of the other box sims. Their FFB is stunningly good. They do have work to do in building their car physics, but again, WIP. The main thing that makes iRacing worth it for me is this:
Other sims:
10% Racing
20% Car Setup
70% Config tweaks/troubleshooting mods/cursing
iRacing:
65% Racing
35% Car Setup
0% tweaking/troubleshooting
10% Cursing (I always lose!)
iRacing is a bargain for the realistic, hassle-free service they offer. If you like simulated racing of any kind, it is worth it.
IMO
Lincoln Miner
December 13th, 2009 at 02:32
I agree with the majority of your post, but iRacing does include the driving aids for the cars that have them like ABS and power steering for the Solstice. They just don’t include braking help, spin control and all those other things that can be turned on with cars, that don’t have them.
It’s like when they design the car’s they don’t give you a slider bar to adjust the front to rear weight balance. They laser scan the car, weigh the parts and it is what it is. Another example is the Indy car. They don’t just have front and rear wing adjustment like so many F1 mods, they add in all the wickers, side pod extensions, tire ramps, etc. Working ALMS position lights on the Vette is another example.
They still don’t model everything as no sim does, but they attempt to model as much as possible and don’t allow aids when aids don’t exist on the real cars.
There are still things they need to model like brake fade, but the base physics and setup options are built, adjusted and modeled custom for each car, which is takes some effort. It’s not just an ini file adjustment on a base physics model.
They also apply the NASCAR rules per track for the races. Often different tracks have different rules. Same with Indy car road vs oval. Setup options are different for each.
A lot of people outside iRacing don’t realize that’s part of the difference between how they build a car vs a mod.
quinncidence
December 13th, 2009 at 12:35
For the most part, Mr. Miner, I think we can agree to agree.
:-)
(And everyone, please don’t take my previous post as an insult to the other guys. The rFactor platform and GTR series are fantastic. And though in many cases the accuracy of mods are debatable, there are quite a few that do such a good job of simulating the racing experience that you don’t even notice, or care about, the minor imperfections! I can’t even imagine the time and hard work that goes into some of these mods that are released to the community for FREE! Amazing! A BIG Thank you to Enduracers, Virtua_LM, Team ORSM, and many others!)
Lincoln Miner
December 14th, 2009 at 07:49
+1,000
Many mod makers do an incredible job with terrific attention to detail. It’s truly a labor of love and for the most part the mods are free without strings.
They would probably die to have all the tools at the disposal of the developers at Simbin, ISI or iRacing to build their mods, but they are given a subset of tools and/or a higher level API, so they make do with what they have.
Given the tools they have at their disposal they often do a fabulous job! Yes, indeed. Hats off to them! :-)
Some license holders might take exception, but they often create some pretty terrific work.
marc1111
December 14th, 2009 at 19:59
Well said quinncidence!
Once again, those photos are absolutely amazing!!! Good work Sam.