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surely a nice track – but for paying – this is very sad for the great rfactor community – i disagree and will not download

Well, ofc I can understand that a lot of ppl are a bit shocked that all of a sudden we have a payware addon for rFactor (well, minus the ][udson stuff that is).
But then again you have to realise that we simracers were fortunate enough that most of these modding teams did all these great mods for free up to this point… if you look at the flight sim community, you have some great freeware planes which are a lot of fun…. and then you’ve got the payware addons where a lot of ppl put a lot of effort in it making it as realistic as possible and want to make some money with it. And I doubt anyone really gets rich doing these great things.
So it would be great if all mods were free, but maybe this will push the mods to another level (if you know what I mean).
On another note, I’m not really sure what ISI thinks that other guys make money using the ISI engine :???:

One thing I never really understoood about the flight sim scene. How can the creators of the mods charge for their planes and stuff? I mean they use copyright logos and names (Boeing, Airbus, Airline logos and such)

The only way this track is somewhat legal is because it’s a fantasy track.

i see you on rapidshare lol

there is another point that really sucks: one track for $ 9,80
is very grabby. i think this lips off. The community i hope so, will not support those grabby guys…

jodi

I would pay for some mod, but when you consider that full version of rF costs 45 USD and you would pay 10 USD for one track? Bit too much I think. 10 bucks for mods like GP 1979 (just an example) could be ok, but this could be a road to hell..

What about to write a mail to Boeing.. I think racekind could get seriosly copyright porblems..

raceking if you read this: fu!!! NO ONE pays for mods!!!

but raceking did some really great tracks before for free . like the ns all roads . in my mind the track have more realistic textures as the ns 2.2 . but almost 10$ is truly to much for one track. a track is not that complicated that a carmod and the best mods are for free . i would pay no more than 1 or maybe 2$ dollar for a really great track and that track i dont even like .

I dont agree that people should never have to pay for mods.
We all take for granted that everyones hard work should be given to us for free and that’s what we’re used to.

So when someone wants to charge for their time and effort which is common practice all over the world in business, people start screaming like girls.

“raceking if you read this: fu!!! NO ONE pays for mods!!!”
This is a typical example of that mentality. Not only a line that says No one pays for mods (and maybe they should), but a f.u. to go along with it. I don’t know where you get the balls.

If the work is quality I dont have a problem shelling out a small fee for it. Its the least we can do for the countless hours of free time that people put in. But its that attitude as usual from the community like they are owed it. If a mod is made then it must be free because somehow they owe it to you to give you all that time for free.
I dont think that has to remain that case 100% of the time. Maybe things should change. It might just see an upturn in quality because they know it they want paying they need to produce the goods.

However…. having said that, you have to price you wares correctly and for me, this is overpriced. I would love the track but not at that price. 5 people could split the cost and download and share it. whats to stop that ?
Imagine how much you get if 1000 people buy it at that price. You really think that a track is worth $10,000 ?

So paying isnt the issue, its the quality and the price that either sells it or doesnt. In this case the price loses you one more otherwise guaranteed customer.

F1racer, ###.
This track is totally against the idea of rFactor. The whole game costs 45$. And now a track costs 10 bucks?? No, thanks. Raceking can keep his tracks on his own. We (the Simracing-Community) don´t need someone who wants money for his tracks.

Guys, same rules as with the MMG discussions. Controversial discussion yes, swearing no.

Please keep it clean!

Shows how spoiled the racing community really is. Payware addons are completely normal in other communities (like Flight Sim or The Sims). Nobody forces you to buy it right? Raceking spent hours and hours on it, if he wants to ask money for it, thats his right. You don’t like that idea? Don’t buy it, easy as that. But don’t go childish and go ‘f.u.’ or that crap, that sais more about you then about Raceking.

Well, the thing i that earning money with this tracks is actually against the law
He uses rFactor and the ISI-Engine, and it´s not allowed to use sponsor-logos or stuff like that to earn money.

Racingfreak: I agree with you about the price, but I dont understand what you mean about ‘against the idea of rFactor’. There is no mandate that says everything made for rfactor must be free. We went through all this and then some when Hudson made his excellent track updates.
I totally agree with Bram on this. I have no issues at all with buying addons or mods. Flight Sim community does it and it works. If the quality is there and the price is right, why should people have a problem ? Its a free world and there is no law, written or unwritten that its a sin to charge for sim-racing mods.
This mentality that it is, needs to change.
I would say that if people wanted to charge for their goods, they know that they couldnt just make any old rush job. The upside to that is that we might just see a bit more quality around here and for the right price, I`d have no problem with that at all.
I dont even care about whether theres a Coke logo in there or not. You’re not being asked to pay for the types of logo they choose to use, but the time, effort and the product.
Sponsor logos dont bother me either way. Having no problem with the copyright issues if its free and then having a problem if its not is a bit hypocritical imo.
Its either copyright infringement or its not, regardless of if the mod is free or not.

If you want the product you buy it, if you dont because its crap or costs too much then you dont. Same with anything you buy. It really is that simple.

Using logos is allowed as long as you don´t earn money with it.
If you sell a product with a logo on it which has a copyright, then it´s against the law.

Yes you are right I know. But Im just saying that it wouldnt be a sticking point for me. For me I`d be paying for the time, effort, quality and the product itself.

FYI, here’s a video of the track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izJfuTWUVpE
It does look very good IMHO, the AI sucks a bit (but that’s just rF I guess).

Video looks nice. The AI seems to bump a lot because the track is a narrow one. But maybe we should expect it to be better for the price. Also that it costs even more if you want the night version. I think thats taking a liberty.
Great track though and the night version looks ace.

@F1Racer
For me it isn´t a sticking point too. But I think 10 bucks are too much. 2 or 3 bucks would have been ok.

One more thing: Why do we need a night version of the track?
rFactor supports day/night change

First I learned that the Historical Gt and Touring Cars mod will not be free of charge (just because the modders reckon this will make using GTL indulged by the creators), now this… Not that I care about fictional tracks anyway, but this may be a bad tendency

Historical GT mod is free if you have GTL already – which thankfully I do. If you don’t, why not ?? Its the most underrated sim ever.

Good point about the night version though :) I think the reason is probably because the buildings etc all have different textures for night time.

Yeah as you say 2-3 dollars would be fine. I`d shell out for that.

That could be true. We´ll see. Maybe, if raceking has no success with selling the tracks he gives them out for free, or makes a discount. At least I hope so,.

Yes hopefully reality will set in and he`ll realise that $9.80 is quite a bit too much when you consider just how many tracks are out there for rF already.

Jip, and you must see that he at least uses free stuff too when he plays rFactor on his own.

Paying is not really the issue i think, i just think that a single track costing almost 25% of the full game cost its too much, regardless of the quality it has.

in general this is a dangerous move. some people in the mod scene might get idea´s starting the end of the scene as we know it.

Compensation? Is this ISI we’re discussing or a lone modder? For years, we were part of modding teams based off of retail games (BF1942: Desert Combat, DCX, DCFX) and asked nothing for our work other than recognition. Our pride and satisfaction came from nothing more than the positive comments we received from the very same people we gamed with each night. Now dive into the Half Life scene -From the original Day of Defeat and Counterstrike, both began as free modifications before Valve took interest in their teams and recruited them. Today we have incredible talent, working for free on the acclaimed Insurgency mod (http://insurgencymod.net/) which is more polished than many retail games you’ll find out there.

Now here in our beloved rFactor, we see a small modding team who wants compensation for a “modification” of a retail, copyrighted work. Boo hoo, cry me a river.
There are larger teams out there (cross platform) who put a hell of a lot of their time and resources into producing a product they can only hope will get the attention of major gaming studios/developers. And this, as many teams recognize, is the ultimate payoff.

Great looking track, but as a fellow gamer and modder -I won’t buy into this trend.

Personally, I think mods cannot be charged, since mods are already gaining advantages from the games.

And $10 is too much for a track( I am not sure if it is in RMB or USD).

Comparing the modders with the artists
They work as a hobby and passion, not for money, and always get amazing results.
If you start to leave all mods payments, the modders will only begin to launch mediocre work, because they will want money, and sooner better …
Money corrupts the artist, since it is no longer a passion to become a business, and in business the only thing that matters is money …

Work for many years in developing a anticheat for CS, never gave me money and even less so wanted, my joy was to see how the servers were clean of cheaters, so that everyone enjoys the game better, and it took me many hours of my free time, I never claimed that anyone, indeed, my money spent in buying the last of cheats MSXsecurity well could maintain my anticheat updated.
All this will end until the leader of the team wanted to sell the anticheats for use in tournaments, we left because some did not share that idea and the rest of the team will finish fighting over money problems …

If they want to earn money with rFactor, who buy the license from the engine and create a game itself, as boys 2Pez with the Turismo Carretera or the people of Simfactory with ARCA, two sims’s excellent and they earn their money in the right way.

Sorry for my comments in rFactor Central insulted if you RaceKing or because it had a political tone, committed a very serious mistake in saying that

And sorry for my bad english.

Saludos

The tracks are now FOR FREE on Racesimtracker :mrgreen:

And it’s been removed from rFc.

The track is stunning graphically, but barely drivable in a test day and completely undrivable with the AI. The AI plow into the walls all over the place, and every turn becomes a big bottleneck. I did a race with RaceX, got spun around by the AI within the 1st few turns, and with the track so narrow I could not even turn around.

Agreed :D
I´ve deleted it already. This track isn´t mine.

Please DO NOT post links to stolen stuff in the comments.

Even though we may not agree with their move, stolen payware work is not allowed on VirtualR.net

Having now played this track, I have to say that graphically its stunning, especially at night. Animated crowds in some places, moving spotlights, flashy advertisments, building window reflections etc. Very very nice indeed.
Unfortunately unless you are racing online with this, thats where the good news ends.
Offline racing is not good. I had 5 cars piled into 1 garage when I wanted a 22 car grid. The AI have a hell of a time negotiation their way around the narrow streets and on the 90 degree corners. It all gets to be a bit of a mess and makes beating the AI an easy task as you are just waiting for them to make a mistake on a turn and you pick them off.
Not what you would expect from a payware track but I can’t imagine it would be easy to get the AI to shuffle around GZ Street. You`d be better of on motorbikes around here.
Its possible that online play against other real people would be a better idea but we know how impatient they can be on the run down to turn one.
Clearly a lot of work has gone into this 7.54km track and graphically it shows. It does have some very nice touches and the best night track I’ve seen on rFactor.