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That’s just awesome!

Great news!BTW.Links are missing again.Why I’m not surprised ;)

http://www.formulatwo.com/news/f2-agrees-rfactor2-deal.aspx 

Maybe because it’s irrelevant?

All the info from the PR text is in the story right here, it’s not needed.

 Bad manner, a source is always needed :)

Awesome news and also check out them renders. Model quality looks far superior to what we have seen so far in the beta.

 Since it´s an official announcement it should be hard to visit the rF2-homepage to look if it´s correct. So who cares about the link.

Why? Are you saying that you have to check whether it’s true?

When has VirtualR ever reported anything that turned out to be not true? I find all this hooey about links to be kind of insulting to be honest.

Site linked by me contains more informations than this short news.

Very good news! :)

Regards

finally some good news from isi..

You’re a true SMS employee now Montoya: treat any and all criticism with with hostility. Ian Bell would be so proud :)

Sigh..

About the source. Its common courtesy to link to the orginal announcement or article. 
But if Montoya doesnt want to do it its his choice. Wouldnt been my choice but i dont own VirtualR. :)

It wasn’t meant to be hostile, I’m just mildly annoyed.

I run VirtualR the way I do since 2007, I haven’t changed my practices one bit and all of a sudden this becomes an issue because 2-3 readers take offense and post this kind of stuff under every story.

I just don’t get that, why is something that was never an issue such a big deal all of a sudden? VirtualR has always worked this way, I always break stories down to the details to make them as short and useful to read as possible. 

That’s actually more work on my part, just copy & pasting the PR release would be much quicker but I feel that this is the cheaper way. The PR text doesn’t contain any valuable info that I left out, my text is simply more down to the point. And before somebody asks, yes, I do that with SMS PR releases as well because this is how the site works, it’s a proven style.

The reason I don’t post these links because so far I no one has me convinced that it’s useful and trolling every story with comments “links are missing” surely isn’t getting me there.

Personally i don’t care as i know where to go. But from the outside looking in and at a guess, i would say that it’s maybe because on pCARS announcements there is always links to the site but other sims they don’t get the links. Again it’s not something that bothers me personally but VR is the only site i visit that does fail to post links to the websites of the subject sims. Surely it would just be easier and less stress for Montoya to just post a link, won’t take any longer than a usual post and it will save cluttering threads like this with a pretty exciting announcement with arguing and bitching.

Whilst I agree with you that the way in which feels3 did his post was not constructive, and I can see how that would annoy you, I do think that in general, adding links to the sources of stories makes sense. At least I would like to have them, just for reference, because I might be interested in learning more about the background of some announcement. Yes, I can also use a search engine for that, but directly clicking a link from within an article is more convenient.

Yes, but in my opinion it´s a bit nitpicking. It´s not that I would expect that most article here are rumors when I visit this site.

For me it starts to become ridiculous that some people here don´t come to a rest and blame every missing news or mistake in articles on his staff at SMS.

this is good news but ISI had to include laser scanned tracks they rely too much on the community to get a return for their engine they need to start giving more!

 you don’t need to take offence just because someone may want to be rude, it’s your choice. What you can do is ignore it, take the suggestion made without the undertone and think about whether it’s a good thing to do or not, which it is. If you’ve ran a site for how many years now, you know that all other sites in all areas link to the source, in fact some TOS demand a link back to source and a limit on words or you are breeching their copyright, not that you would likely come up against this on a site like this, but it’s a valid example.

But hey, i guess the tone to you now means it’s bullying again, so you’ll not budge and we won’t see links in the future (shame), just like how the pcars link is still first even though you can change it, but will not give in to apparent bullying…

drudgereport.com does that so does n4g.com I see it as an ethical thing but not a law but n4g.com had some problems not having the link in many articles but they include since last year  in all. news feeders do that but I’m not sure to which point Rob’s website could be considered news feeder. 

I agree, at the time of rFactor 2′s launch ISI’s stance was ‘we don’t need DX11, we don’t need laser scanned tracks’ and because there were enough fanboys around who hated iRacing that was considered to be the final word. Unfortunately for them along came news of pCars and Assetto Corsa boasting gorgeous DX11 visuals and the promise of laser scanned tracks as well as iRacing moving towards DX11 with their current crop of ALL laser scanned tracks. Suddenly rFactor 2 seemed a little ‘old tech’. I’ve got a lifetime license for rF2 and I’ll keep trying each new build, this news of F2 cars is promising but I can’t help feeling ISI have missed the mark a bit.

Fair points but I think you`re confusing something. The way I do it is actually the legally safe way as I very rarely paste something but I come up with my own text that doesn’t violate any copyrights.

You`ll never find any full articles from other sites here, it’s always quotes embedded in my own text with a backlink to the article and that’s the proper way to do it.

nice car, oldschool f1 look :)

 What a stupid comment Coleman.

Real world professional realism.  I love it!

Laser scanned tracks are a huge waste of money which can be spent in a more useful way. It makes little difference in feel of the track, considering the cost. 

Personally i prefer you abbreviated news stories Montoya.

Saves me sifting through a (sometimes) long press release just to end up with a scrap of actual information.

Would have prefered GP2 but oh well.

Cant really complain that ISI are finally bringing us some content.

This is true. The main benefit for me with Laser Scanning was the feel it gave you through the wheel. But a well made track with decent 3d bumps can offer 90% of what a Laser Scanned track can offer. Take NetKar for instance, it’s tracks felt so alive due to the bumps and also it’s tyre model. And now rF2 has the same, the tracks in rF2 are so alive in comparison to anything else again due to the tyre model/well designed tracks and not Laser Scanning.

If you are a real life racer and are practising in preparation for a real life race then i can see the benefits but for the rest of us, it just sounds good more than anything IMO.

 sounds like the car fax commercial. Just trust me…lol

lol..that was actually funny :)

But in all seriousness, when you buy a magazine or a newspaper, do they list the sources for their reports? No, you trust them based on the reputation they have earned and it’s the same thing here.

I never report hearsay or anything like that and should something be speculative it’s always clearly marked as such in the article.

Can’t complain about licenced stuff……looking forward to trying this.

Don’t really know much about F2 but it’s encouraging to hear that from the engineer.

You see I think the bumps and its effect on FFB were made out to be a big thing with laser but in reality I think its more just the accuracy in layout that you get that’s the bigger advantage.

Obvously you can get something prity spot on without laser scanning but when you have everything 1-1 all over the track evan if the lighting or textures are off it looks more real than non laser scanned. 

As you and other have said bumps and road texture don’t matter you can get that from well made  normal tracks and in some ways the tire model’s and car models are still so much of an approximation that its probably better to artificialy put some bumps in or magnify real world ones to make the end result closer. 

All in all laser tracks are still gone over by humans so the laser scanning is often marginal when you have a talented team of artists and a good engine as they will always make something good.

I don’t know about that…..I mean I agree that the cost/benefit ratio is probably not worth it.

But then, you could probably say that about iracing’s business model as well but people still subscribe to it…..which must mean that it offers something beyond other sims.

Personally, I think iracing’s laser scanned track/FFB combo provides just about the best feedback of any sim – which is saying something because the physics certainly aren’t anywhere near the best.

So yeah, sure you can get by without laser scanning and still do a great job modelling tracks, but at the end of the day sims are about maximising realism. And there’s no getting around the fact that laser scanning is THE most accurate way to model a track.

Of course that is the real benefit hence why i said ” for me ” but your right, it is more accurate but is the cost really worth it for someone who like me is never actually gonna race SPA as an example and so that MM accuracy or whatever doesn’t really matter to me. I can get just as much of a convincing feel from a well designed track. Like i say i think for some, things like that are vital for a sim. Personally i would rather see money spent in other areas of the sim that are more important like the tyre model as an example which ISI have done. 

Things like properly simulated Turbo’s like this announcement is gonna require i think are more important to making a simulation convincing. It’s a long term project though with rF2, so who knows in the future it may be possible.

Yay, more default content that will probably suck compared to what the community can do in true ISI tradition. More default content means modders wont tackle that same section.

Thank god they can make a better physics engine than they can cars.

?? lol… That’s what the product is. It’s a modder-friendly title. Could make a LOT more money if it wasn’t modder friendly and just cranked out licensed titles… lol I think you’re missing the point. :)

 But the pCars announcements are 99% of the time about the release of new builds with a link to where you can get the content…just like he does with any other content release. The comparison to this story doesn’t hold since it is not about the release of content, just news of something being worked on.

Nope. EVERY pCARS thread has a website link. Again though i don’t really care. I was making an obserrvation and trying to help explain why so many do post about it.

The point I was trying to make was that you get a visual quality to laser scanned outside of its functional quality for real drivers.  ( obviously that visual aspect is functional as well but you get what I mean you just get a graphical realism from the positional accuracy outside of textures and shaders) 

But as you have said if you have to allocate cost and the money that would go on laser licenses is spent on graphics physics or net-code development then id rather not bother with laser. 

Thing is its hard to know if AC got cheep deals on the licences for the laser data or what prices thelicens are costing relative to other development costs. 

Its also hard to know if having that 10-250k saved on the laser data per track could have been spent on other things , sometimes the quality of the simulation and graphics is down to the teem and coders or art teams feel and attention to detail rather than just having more people work on it.  

But yah I think we agree anyway lol , its just an interesting conversation thinking about laser scanning and how it has found its way into consumer grade simulations over the last 6 or so years.

I don’t think it’s a waste of money, but I do think money is better spent elsewhere. The thing is, customers end up paying for it when it’s done… And I doubt you would want to pay per car, per track in rFactor2 to the amount which would be needed. It’s just not financially viable for us, or for you.

erm…………this is absolutely amazing. 

i mean the renault stuff was all well and good but i didn’t see any press release from renault (maybe there is somewhere?). the last time they collaborated like iracing was with the f1 bmw sauber team – and that produced a great car. this should be awesome. Im going to post on the ISI forum and tell them to MAKE SURE THEY GET THE SOUNDS RIGHT.

 great news

wonder if this means we get more ISI tracks?

F2 wanted to put this out at this time. We’re not wanting to announce things ourselves until later on. :)

This was the point I was trying to make last time I mentioned this.  Had this been an announcement about a new deal with pCARS, you would have seen a link to the WMD site and a mention of the price to get involved.  But rFactor 2 does not get the same treatment.

Isn’t the last announcement. We wouldn’t have announced this so early either, but F2 wanted to. :)

Tracks weren’t a part of this deal, but yes we’ve said all along there will be more cars and tracks coming. :)

Actually I just sent the text and images in an email (the one which F2 sent me) to him, along with the others on my media list. He didn’t have a link to quote as the source.

I know that at other times I would prefer to see a source on things, but this time he did not have one. :)

Hi Tim silly question but why would you guys want to keep that under your hats?? This type of news is obviously good or should be good for sales??

We’re testing at the moment. Sales will come from announcing this stuff later, this testing isn’t about sales, it’s about testing (and people have to purchase, because we replaced TryMedia with… ourselves. :)

GP2 yeah, but that license is probably really expensive thanks to Bernie.

 Thank god ISI has made a advanced sim engine, where modders can create content for it, without that engine, modders wouldn’t be able to create anything.

I know your reply will probably be vague, but will we get a modern monaco? You already have the liscence for the old one…

I am not sure, but I seriously doubt it. It caused those guys some serious stress building it, and it’s a lot of work in for possibly not so much out… So yes, vague. :)

 Laser scaned tracks never made any simracer faster … Good for
Immersion you may say, well a good team of talented modders can give you the same immersion for alot less, talent makes the diference not laser scanning.

great news for ISI and all of that have bought rf2 already. cant wait to give them a squirt around a track. 

Thanks for info. Nice to have great news like this FIA involvement to deliver ”a simulation as close to the real thing as possible”. :)

nice!
 

That says to me that you guys are in it for the sim first and money second which is great to hear!

really great news!! :) now the wait begins….i hate being impatient lol!

A non “iRacing”-colored car would have been good for the promo renders I guess… but anyway. Tim, well done. Send some wishes to the team for their hard work too. Keeping two worlds happy isn’t an easy task I guess. (rfpro vs. rf2)

I hope physics will be better than Formula Renault 3.5 because FR 3.5 physics are far from realistic…

“We’re very pleased with the results and feel confident it will provide professional racing drivers, as well as amateurs, with a simulation as close to the real thing as possible.”

>> i can read this type of sentence for every new race car game released for 10 years. It does not guarantee that physics will be well done.

Nothing to do with iRacing, the car pictured is Luciano Bacheta’s (http://www.formulatwo.com/2012-drivers/luciano-bacheta.aspx) car this year and was Jolyon Palmer’s car previously as Comma are the a primary sponsor of the series.

From ISI’s forum:

“Tim Wheatley:

That’s what is a little bit interesting about the FR3.5. Because according to our info it handles quite realistically, but I guess a lot of people don’t like it (tire heating aside). So like anything else, I can say what I want, you guys will still make up your own minds (and that’s fine).”

That’s how it feels working for the company, yeah, and I love that. It feels like ISI as a company takes a little less risk for less reward (no greed), that’s why it’s 20 years old while most other developers have disappeared. Most studios hire and fire around projects and frankly it’s a horrible part of the software industry when that happens.

I’m told that ISI has never even taken out a loan, so that is a very well-run business.

Yeah we will make our own minds because words are nothing without proof.
This doesnt mean I’m pesimistic about rf2 physics though! Just that I don’t believe every marketing bullsh*ts.

sorry there but iRacing’s FFB comes nowhere near current rF2 Beta standards! It was the best until rF2 Beta made it look ridiculous. 

creating dept and slaving yourself to the Rockefellers and Rothchilds isn’t the brightest idea and I solute ISI! BTW Tim have you watched End Game Blue Print for Global Enslavement? :)

I’ve got to say I agree with Tim without actually driving a formula renault 3.5 car how are we to know if they got it right or wrong? We can only make assumptions by how we expect it to drive I guess…

Tim can you give us any info on when we might get an update on the Beta? thanks

Yeah it was just an idea… nothing serious. ;)

Found the news on facebook first, so there was no chance for a mislead. But I had to look twice her @virtualr…

Again, great work Tim. 

Nope, what’s that??

As I said,  you make up your own minds – that’s fine. :)

The update we plan to release is in internal testing. If it gets a clear from the internal testers, we’ll put it out to the external ones.

1 thing that frustrates me is that in most sims u dont feel at least the rear tyres so u can drive on limit.
I dont know if the physics are good or bad,at least to me F3.5 physics seem good,my problem is that i couldnt feel if i had grip in corners so i could push and this makes it very frustrating.I really dont get it,i mean they are some people who make ffb…Its one of the top prioritys in a sim..
The 60′s formula and the skippy are aewsome,but all other cars are very diferent at least to me.The gt’s cars are kinda in middle,some times with the megane i was feeling that i was in the air.
About the 2 gt’s that were added i didnt see any “character” to them,any diference,seem like copy-paste to the megane…But this opinion maybe its very bad cause im not an expert,so sry if im wrong here.
Dont know if physics are bad or something to gt’s cars and the formula renault but i have a question:
The guy that made the ffb in f3.5 especially after his work,he tested it and said “oh nice i can feel it and drive on limit”…I mean cmon..nothing to do with 60′s formula and the skippy which ffb is aewsome and u feel everything!

The same applyed to game stock car which ffb was giving me info when i had some speed but not in slow corners…I asked stuff from Reiza cause i was really curius WHY is this happening? Unfortunatly i didnt get the answer i wanted.Stuff replyed to me that maybe i had lag or something,which i dont.I asked if it was my wheel(g27),maybe this wheel doesnt produce effects in slow speed and the expensive wheels produce effects but its not that…

So my question remains..
Why there is so huge gap between ffb in slow speed and fast speed?
And why developers dont do a trick or something so we can have the info we need to enjoy the sim and drive on limit in slow corners?
Again my reference here is netkar which i feel the tyres,i feel connected etc etc
I hope one expert person to answer me.
Thanks

Well our guys really need to reproduce this stuff, feel it themselves, to know if they have a bug, or something else… All I can really say is to keep posting this stuff on our forums. One of things which you might have helped bring up is the speed difference, and that could be something as simple as the ffb code dealing with the greater force at greater speed in a better way…

Well i didnt took part in giving feedback back then cause there were so many posts and threads…Im prety sure that someone should have said already what i have said in my previous post and also i guess developers of every sim test other sims to compare physics/ffb etc,or too take some ideas maybe,right? But in any case,i think everyone can see/feel the diference of skippy and 60′s formula with other cars..
Anyway u did it with skippy and 60′s so im hoping u will do it with other cars also :) 

Don’t bother, it’s a conspiracy theory documentary by Alex Jones, admittedly not the sharpest pencil in the drawer… He was right saying it’s not the brightest idea to enslave yourself to money, but what does that have to do with anything, I don’t know either… lol 

Ah, I see.

I don’t think it is a good idea to enslave yourself to it. But who does that anyway in reality? Most of us work (thereby enslaving ourselves) to what we do with the money, not the money itself. I think Alex Jones needs to define this more. ;)

Even if it’s been said, seriously: Keep posting. You’re not annoying us at all by doing it. The more we hear something, the greater chance it isn’t missed or misinterpreted. You might annoy each other, but hopefully people realize it’s for the benefit of the product, and therefore you as a customer. Text is a crappy way to communicate, but keep doing it. ;)

Well we can choose to either enslave ourselves by money which in turn gives us freedom tu buy and do things, or we can choose total freedom to have nothing :D

way to lie and spin things Mr. 666! No wonder you chose this number you better get a life even if in hell!

This is good stuff.

Man, if isi manages to secure GP2, they will have achieved the impossible in my eyes.

Well said. The good thing (possibly the only good thing imho) about posts like the one Theroro29 made is that it promoted djbokoboko to bring up something may be of benefit to the game, the devs and the people that play/race. Just Mo   

That worries me tbh.
I consider NKP to be the benchmark for open wheelers and the FR 3.5 feels horrible in comparison. The KS2 is a beastly car but you can tell exactly when the rear tyres are letting go…….and unlike the FR the tyres don’t just give up on you past the limit.

Seriously, race cars should inspire confidence with their grip and that’s exactly what the FR doesn’t do at the moment.