Comments on: Fanatec Clubsport Pedals Ship in February http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february 100% Sim Racing News Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:54:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Stan http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15556 Stan Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:53:22 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15556 @Fanatec: I understand your arguments and I agree mostly, and even if I am not totally convinced, I'll be very happy to test it by myself. So, count me as a customer. But as the price gap between an 8bit and a 12bit controller is very small, why don't you opt for it? Anyway, and as said by ermax18, thanks for the "simracing stuff" you provide to the community, and thanks again for wandering on the forums and discussing with us/me. @ermax18: Thanks for "the point", and please let us/me know the result of the g25 8bit to 12bit upgrade. It's time for wiring ... thanks in advance for this review. S. @Fanatec: I understand your arguments and I agree mostly, and even if I am not totally convinced, I’ll be very happy to test it by myself. So, count me as a customer.
But as the price gap between an 8bit and a 12bit controller is very small, why don’t you opt for it?
Anyway, and as said by ermax18, thanks for the “simracing stuff” you provide to the community, and thanks again for wandering on the forums and discussing with us/me.

@ermax18: Thanks for “the point”, and please let us/me know the result of the g25 8bit to 12bit upgrade. It’s time for wiring … thanks in advance for this review.

S.

]]> By: ermax18 http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15534 ermax18 Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:43:07 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15534 Stan, I have seen this debate so many times. It is very interesting. I believe you have a point about thresh hold braking. You don't really jab you foot to the same value, you work into it and then back out as needed. I have G25 pedals which are 8bit. I also have one of Leo's controllers which is 12bit. One of these days I need to wire the G25 pedals to the Leo controller and see if I can tell a difference. I just need to stop being lazy and do it. :) It isn't fair really to compatible the CSP to the CST. The CSTs are way more expensive. 8bit or not you really can't touch the CSPs for the price. I can't wait to see the SRT review of these things. Thanks Fanatec for always chiming in and answering our questions. Not many companies give support like this. Other then Todd Cannon I guess. Stan, I have seen this debate so many times. It is very interesting. I believe you have a point about thresh hold braking. You don’t really jab you foot to the same value, you work into it and then back out as needed. I have G25 pedals which are 8bit. I also have one of Leo’s controllers which is 12bit. One of these days I need to wire the G25 pedals to the Leo controller and see if I can tell a difference. I just need to stop being lazy and do it. :)

It isn’t fair really to compatible the CSP to the CST. The CSTs are way more expensive. 8bit or not you really can’t touch the CSPs for the price. I can’t wait to see the SRT review of these things.

Thanks Fanatec for always chiming in and answering our questions. Not many companies give support like this. Other then Todd Cannon I guess.

]]> By: Fanatec http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15533 Fanatec Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:40:11 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15533 Please consider that a 100kg or 50 kg load cell is operated with a lever so it is not 1:1. In fact we made our load cell adjustable so you can actually have the whole brake axis within 1kg of force you need to press. Considering the lever, we are talking about gramms here. This is a lot of theory. Let's see what a tester says who owns the CST, Frex, VPP etc and compares them with our pedals. Actual performance is what really matters. Please consider that a 100kg or 50 kg load cell is operated with a lever so it is not 1:1.

In fact we made our load cell adjustable so you can actually have the whole brake axis within 1kg of force you need to press. Considering the lever, we are talking about gramms here.

This is a lot of theory. Let’s see what a tester says who owns the CST, Frex, VPP etc and compares them with our pedals.
Actual performance is what really matters.

]]> By: Stan http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15531 Stan Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:01:14 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15531 Unfortunately I can't make the test you suggest. And of course, you are right that 256 values are far from on/off. But I can give arguments to my point of view. When you break with a racing car, first you hit the break the strongest you can, then you decrease the breaking power (as the car slow down you need less pressure for blocking the wheels etc ...) and let the car doing its weight transfer. To make it easier, we're going to imagine that the full break is exactly at value number 256, while decreasing the breaking power, the step under is the value number 255. If the loadcell = 100kg max. 256 values / 100kg = 2.6kg So each step is 2.6 kg What I say is that the driver feeling is much thiner than those 2.5kg. The problem is not really in the number of steps, but in the value of each step. Or I am totally wrong and it don't work like this with the loadcell ... I hope my explainations are less "clumsy" (and that you'll finally upgrade to the CST)(I was smiling while writing this last comment). S. Unfortunately I can’t make the test you suggest.

And of course, you are right that 256 values are far from on/off. But I can give arguments to my point of view.

When you break with a racing car, first you hit the break the
strongest you can, then you decrease the breaking power (as the car slow down you need less pressure for blocking the wheels etc …) and let the car doing its weight transfer.
To make it easier, we’re going to imagine that the full break is exactly at value number 256, while decreasing the breaking power, the step under is the value number 255.

If the loadcell = 100kg max.
256 values / 100kg = 2.6kg
So each step is 2.6 kg

What I say is that the driver feeling is much thiner than those 2.5kg.
The problem is not really in the number of steps, but in the value of each step.
Or I am totally wrong and it don’t work like this with the loadcell …

I hope my explainations are less “clumsy” (and that you’ll finally upgrade to the CST)(I was smiling while writing this last comment).

S.

]]> By: ScHiRoCk http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15527 ScHiRoCk Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:27:05 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15527 SuperB! If i find the money i'll order it immediatly ! :happy: SuperB!
If i find the money i’ll order it immediatly ! :happy:

]]> By: Fanatec http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15526 Fanatec Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:02:01 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15526 Stan I see your point but I just mean that please dont be mislead by the pure figures. In theory other pedals might have more resolution but they work with pots or other sensors which have a mechanical connection to the pedals. There is no use of 64000 values if the mechanics dont allow you to exploit this. What about a little challenge? Make a video which shows that you are able with your current pedals that you can brake 10 times in a row (within 30 seconds)from 0 to exactly the same value. Pick a value which is about 2/3 of the movement. If you do this I will upgrade the electronics and you will get a CSP for free. I doubt that even Schumacher can do it. 256 values is far away from on/off Stan
I see your point but I just mean that please dont be mislead by the pure figures. In theory other pedals might have more resolution but they work with pots or other sensors which have a mechanical connection to the pedals.
There is no use of 64000 values if the mechanics dont allow you to exploit this.
What about a little challenge?
Make a video which shows that you are able with your current pedals that you can brake 10 times in a row (within 30 seconds)from 0 to exactly the same value. Pick a value which is about 2/3 of the movement.

If you do this I will upgrade the electronics and you will get a CSP for free.

I doubt that even Schumacher can do it. 256 values is far away from on/off

]]> By: Stan http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15518 Stan Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:39:12 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15518 Excuse me Fanatec, but it's exactly what leads the formula 1 to what it is now. In real life, when you was breaking by wire, the were an infinite number of breaking possibilities, now, with a small finite number, finding the good one his logically easier. If you push that idea to much, you'll achieve an ABS with only two steps, on/off. About the driver doing five laps with the same amount of breaking, it's what makes a good and fast driver. In fact, if you are really at the limit, there's gonna be a point where your breaking zone is the smallest it can be, it means that breaking later will be to late. So you have found the latest breaking point, if you don't do it each time, you'll miss your corner/apex. Doing consistent lap times is the fact of the good drivers, it means you are at the/your limit. In fact, it's the first thing you learn when you are a racing driver; because you need to drive the same way each lap if you want to be able to tune up a car. Ayrton Senna was surely the best in that exercise, saying to his team the amount of tenth he could win by changing the setup. Last thing, don't misunderstand me, I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just trying to discuss our passion for simracing with you. S. Excuse me Fanatec, but it’s exactly what leads the formula 1 to what it is now.
In real life, when you was breaking by wire, the were an infinite number of breaking possibilities, now, with a small finite number, finding the good one his logically easier.
If you push that idea to much, you’ll achieve an ABS with only two steps, on/off.

About the driver doing five laps with the same amount of breaking, it’s what makes a good and fast driver.
In fact, if you are really at the limit, there’s gonna be a point where your breaking zone is the smallest it can be, it means that breaking later will be to late.
So you have found the latest breaking point, if you don’t do it each time, you’ll miss your corner/apex.
Doing consistent lap times is the fact of the good drivers, it means you are at the/your limit.
In fact, it’s the first thing you learn when you are a racing driver; because you need to drive the same way each lap if you want to be able to tune up a car.
Ayrton Senna was surely the best in that exercise, saying to his team the amount of tenth he could win by changing the setup.

Last thing, don’t misunderstand me, I’m not looking for a fight, I’m just trying to discuss our passion for simracing with you.

S.

]]> By: Fanatec http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15501 Fanatec Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:07:38 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15501 @Tappi Add the VAT in Europe and the longer distribiution chain (more countries and more different retailers to handle) and you know why. @stan The resolution is absolutely sufficient. You will not feel any steps and actually it is similar to digital cameras: the megapixels don't matter - the optics count. Only if the mechanics of the pedals are precise enough you will be able to press the value you need and believe me that it is already difficult enough to land at exactly the "value 180" if you think this is the right amount of breaking force for a certain corner. Increasing the resolution only means that you think you are able to brake at with exactly "value 180,35" on that corner. Not "value 180" and not "value 181". Tell me one driver who can drive 5 laps and everytime he brakes exactly identical within 0,1 values and we will revise the electronics. @Tappi Add the VAT in Europe and the longer distribiution chain (more countries and more different retailers to handle) and you know why.

@stan
The resolution is absolutely sufficient. You will not feel any steps and actually it is similar to digital cameras: the megapixels don’t matter – the optics count.
Only if the mechanics of the pedals are precise enough you will be able to press the value you need and believe me that it is already difficult enough to land at exactly the “value 180″ if you think this is the right amount of breaking force for a certain corner.
Increasing the resolution only means that you think you are able to brake at with exactly “value 180,35″ on that corner. Not “value 180″ and not “value 181″. Tell me one driver who can drive 5 laps and everytime he brakes exactly identical within 0,1 values and we will revise the electronics.

]]> By: Tappi http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15490 Tappi Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:45:29 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15490 Hmmm.. why is 1$ = 1€ in the hardware industry? Anyway the Porsche 911 GT3 RS Wheel -Clubsport- for 290€/$ which includes this pedals is an unbeatbable price/performance offer I think. Hmmm.. why is 1$ = 1€ in the hardware industry? Anyway the Porsche 911 GT3 RS Wheel -Clubsport- for 290€/$ which includes this pedals is an unbeatbable price/performance offer I think.

]]> By: Stan http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15480 Stan Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:25:24 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15480 Thanks ermax18 and Fanatec. And, Fanatec, if you can add a 12 bits controller to this revolutionnary pedals set, be sure to count me as a customer. Thanks again. S. Thanks ermax18 and Fanatec.

And, Fanatec, if you can add a 12 bits controller to this revolutionnary pedals set, be sure to count me as a customer.

Thanks again.

S.

]]> By: Fanatec http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15478 Fanatec Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:22:48 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15478 The resolution of the sensor is actually almost infinite but the signals which go to the PC are 8 bit (256 values). I doubt that anybody can feel the difference if you have more values on the pedal axis but if there is enough demand we could easily upgrade the axis resolution to 64.000 values. More important is that the mechanics are precise so you get the feeling in your feet. The pressure sensor is a mojor step forward as muscle tension is more precise than foot movement. The resolution of the sensor is actually almost infinite but the signals which go to the PC are 8 bit (256 values).

I doubt that anybody can feel the difference if you have more values on the pedal axis but if there is enough demand we could easily upgrade the axis resolution to 64.000 values.

More important is that the mechanics are precise so you get the feeling in your feet. The pressure sensor is a mojor step forward as muscle tension is more precise than foot movement.

]]> By: ermax18 http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15463 ermax18 Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:52:54 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15463 These are the pedals that come with the 911 GT3 RS which is brand new. These pedals can also be purchased separately. Stan, I don't know the specifics about the resolution of the controller/HALs. You could try asking Fanatec here: http://www.911wheel.de/ He is good about answering questions. These are the pedals that come with the 911 GT3 RS which is brand new. These pedals can also be purchased separately.

Stan, I don’t know the specifics about the resolution of the controller/HALs. You could try asking Fanatec here:
http://www.911wheel.de/

He is good about answering questions.

]]> By: aj_1986 http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15462 aj_1986 Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:38:43 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15462 I'm confused... Is the 911 Carrera wheel available to buy yet? :weird: I’m confused… Is the 911 Carrera wheel available to buy yet? :weird:

]]> By: -eRNIe- http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15461 -eRNIe- Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:38:55 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15461 Brake vibration for blocking tires? Yes! Sounds like these pedals are really next-gen. :grin: Brake vibration for blocking tires? Yes! Sounds like these pedals are really next-gen. :grin:

]]> By: Stan http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15460 Stan Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:19:28 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15460 Thanks for your reply ermax18, but could you precise me the numbers of steps (8, 10, 12 bits) for the pots and the loadcell? Thanks again and in advance. S. Thanks for your reply ermax18, but could you precise me the numbers of steps (8, 10, 12 bits) for the pots and the loadcell?

Thanks again and in advance.

S.

]]> By: ermax18 http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15458 ermax18 Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:01:23 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15458 Stan, It uses a loadcell for the brake and HAL sensors for the throttle and clutch. So they will not wear out. Stan, It uses a loadcell for the brake and HAL sensors for the throttle and clutch. So they will not wear out.

]]> By: Stan http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15457 Stan Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:33:45 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15457 Hi all, Does one of you knows what kind of pots and controller Fanatec have used for those pedals? Thanks in advance for your informations. S. Hi all,
Does one of you knows what kind of pots and controller Fanatec have used for those pedals?

Thanks in advance for your informations.

S.

]]> By: Serg Funke http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15456 Serg Funke Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:01:49 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15456 force feedback pedals? :eek: sweet force feedback pedals? :eek: sweet

]]> By: ermax18 http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-clubsport-pedals-ship-in-february/comment-page-1#comment-15454 ermax18 Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:28:55 +0000 http://www.virtualr.net/?p=2021#comment-15454 I need these pedals. I just have to get a permission slip from the wife. Hmm.. how can I do this....... Hahahha. I need these pedals. I just have to get a permission slip from the wife. Hmm.. how can I do this……. Hahahha.

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