F1 2013 for rFactor 2 – Ferrari F138 Demo Released

Team F1Ligue has released a first demo of their F1 2013 mod for rFactor 2.

The demo puts rFactor 2 owners behind the wheel of the Ferrari F138, Ferrari’s challenger for the upcoming 2013 Formula One World Championship season.

Along with the demo, the team has announced their plans for the release of the full mod as F1 2013 will be the next rFactor 2 mod to go the payware route.

The full version of the mod which the team aims to release around the time the 2013 F1 season kicks off will sell for 2€.

Hoping to comply with legal matters, the mod will come with fictional skins lacking real-life logos and other copyrighted details similar to the route the T5 Touring Car series mod has taken.

Looking at how both Formula One and Ferrari are very protective of their copyrights, it remains to be seen whether this will result in some form of backlash sooner or later.

GTOmegaRacing.com

  • Anonymous

    The end of a golden age…… oh well.

  • Anonymous

    2euro for whole mod sounds reasonable, why not.
    Question is if people are willing to pay if cars have to be a bit fictional, I know I don’t..

  • Marcio

    maybe it’s better to have some payware mods. that way I don’t end with an 60Gb rFactor 2 Installation with useless mods like in rFActor

  • http://twitter.com/ipitydafool Andrew Male

    I feel the full wrath of FOM’s lawyers will be unleashed if they charge for it.

  • Philip Samuelson

    Of all the modding groups, the last one I would ever pay for their work is F1L. I’ve driven most of their previous mods, and they lack realism overall. The models are bland and cheaply thrown together. The sounds are very flat, lacking any dynamics at all. The steering is lifeless, I get no feel of the road.

    Unless they’ve made some pretty serious changes, I wouldn’t remotely consider buying their product. And from this video — It ain’t looking much better. Sorry gents.

    -Blacker.

  • Anonymous

    I’d be stunned if this actually came “to market”. Using the real names, sponsor logos, major brands like Ferrari, flying in the face of the FIA AND trying to make money on it?

    Have fun with that lawsuit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marcus-Caton/647940120 Marcus Caton

    It’s a MOD, you know… rFactor.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marcus-Caton/647940120 Marcus Caton

    That’s why paying for mods will be problematic, people will always expect more/ better stuff.

  • Oskari Kantonen

    I’m sorry, but if you sell stuff with anyone’s registered trademarks on it, you’ll crash and burn. Big time. I wouldn’t try to sell if I were you.

  • gt3rsr

    And now we’re really dancing on thin ice…

  • Joe Grover

    F1 is so brand heavy that I can’t see this working as fictional. I wouldn’t want to drive a red car called a Faglerri or Ferrably. Would you? My guess is that if it does get released someone will come out with an authentic skin pack for free very quickly.

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    Gentlemen,

    Learn to read before writing.

    the mod will pay, 2 euros, the mod will be fictional for copyright reasons.

    But you can download a skin package that will not fictitious., It will be up to you to play with skins legal or not legal.

    Nobody forces you to buy our model, there are lots of other free stuff.

  • Joe Grover

    Maybe a language barrier? The text says nothing about a real skin pack that I could find. Maybe modify it to say that? A real skin pack means I’d buy it.

  • Pabig

    Payware with about 100% copyrighted stuff from F1? This group will be in a lot of troube if they really try to make money off it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ptodd2 Paul Todd

    I really can’t wait for f1 to leave the v8′s it will soon force modders to find or make new sounds for F1 mods. Every rfactor F1 mod uses this generic sound and it sounds nothing like an F1 car.

  • gt3rsr

    And what will be the mod’s and the car’s name? And what about the chassis shape? Will it be a 100% copy of the real life F138 or not? I see many legal difficulties here…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Renato-Simioni/1556380242 Renato Simioni

    The sounds are from our GSC Formula Reiza and used without permission. Not cool gents.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, and copyright infringement has gotten a LOT more heated and even automated since rFactor 1 came out. Especially when you start talking about making money off of someone else’s brand name, sponsor logos, etc.

    We’ve seen mods on this site get taken down even when they DON’T use real car/series names or logos.

  • Guilherme Cramer

    From what I read as guidance for a couple of companies, there have to be a minimum of 3 significant changes to the car for it to be considered a legal mod. So it goes beyond the name, the likeness of the chassis is an issue.

    Anyway, best of luck and may this be a very nice mod with issues ironed out (like the cockpit interior and the reflections).

  • Anonymous

    I can’t get cockpit view to sit lower into seat, it’s not low enough as in real life.

  • Anonymous

    If only there were someone with talent to create some new , up to date F1 sounds.

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    the mod T5 is free ?

    no…

    they have problems with the law?

    No.

    why ?

    because their work is fictional,

    we as it is.

    the only difference is that those who want to can the illegal skins added and we are not a business.

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    reiza sounds are not in the final mod

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joca-Nadalist/1061259890 Joca Nadalist

    Agree

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    the position of the cockpit has been corrected,

    if you follow the ISI forum you would know.

  • Anonymous

    First of all I want to give the devs thumbs up! Nice short build up with some previews and now a demo before the big release that will come on time I think. Some big devs good take an example to that.

    But have to say something else what may offend some ppl but I have to say this. For those who go on a rant every single time there is a payware mod release..SHUT THE F*CK UP. Are u all communist or anti-kapitalist or something? In the real world you have to pay for somebodies services. And if it has a huge pricetag I would understand some ppl having some critisism, but € 2,-?!? for God sake chill out and have some fun. Most of u guys have spend much more on hardware. It can’t be worse than a codemaster F1 “sim” and I payed 50 bucks for that.

    Sorry F1racer had to say this…

  • Anonymous

    Should correct the first time I play..thanks anyway.

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    reiza sounds are not in the final mod

  • Anonymous

    historx, drm, enduracers, 10 others. We really don’t have much to worry about here. These few modders who have come about so far are not big time and are making pretty mediocre stuff. Just ignore them. When the above start to talk money, then start worrying.

  • http://twitter.com/__dbab__ DH

    well why use them at all if they aren’t yours then?

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    that’s what a demo is to test things.
    Now that the owners and we look, not the community.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Justin-Schmidt/100001406158677 Justin Schmidt

    guys you can’t use copyright protected material in your free demo either. the demo is used for advertising a commercial product. which means that u are using unlicensed contend to promote your product.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominguezolaondo David Dominguez Olaondo

    if it was to test things, you could have used ISI f1 engine sounds… oh well, and someone will still say that simracing cancer are the guys who want to earn some bucks after doing a mod from scratch…

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    you not wrong on this point.

    Now if only my DEMO is illegal I accept.

    By against all mods that are coming on RF2 also be illegal (except ISI)

  • Anonymous

    Well I initially had the wrong assumption of exactly what it is you were trying to do with respect to selling your modded content and said if I saw something posted about overall the use of non licensed content in respect to copyright I would shut up. Doing this as fictional is a start but I think you can even get in trouble if you call it F1. If it is seen in my eyes that no infringements were made I will consider giving you 2euro for your mod because I understand you still have to put food on your table at the end of the day.

  • Anonymous

    Sounds like Automaniax. Oh and have you heard any more about them?

  • Anonymous

    Not sure how an F1 mod could ever be realistic given the complete lack of technical data, let alone one for a race car that’s never lapped a circuit in anger ;)

  • Anonymous

    Well put it this way; I wouldn’t risk my livelihood asking for €2 when the risk of getting totally destroyed by an army of highly payed lawyers is even slightly possible. They won’t be from Ferrari necessarily. I’m thinking more about EA and other license holders who will snoop on this.

  • http://twitter.com/SeanvanderBurg1 Sean van der Burg

    As soon as more free f1 mods come available, this one will be gone. I’m not going to buy it, sorry.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    The over-reactive words people come up with never ceases to amaze me. Cancer? Really ??

    One issue is satisfying legal requirements first – thats one argument.
    The other is someone wanting to make a few ‘bucks’ from their work. That is a whole other debate with many variables.

    To say it’s a cancer is highly insulting and very unreasonable.
    Maybe people who think they have the right to have everything for free or should benefit from other peoples work for free should fit into that category instead.
    What gives anyone the right to demand that someone who scratch makes a mod should put it out there for free ?
    You can argue that its against the grain or that it should be a passion or a hobby but maybe some feel the hours and weeks and months they put in to providing new content is actually work something more than nothing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1711429307 Chris Wright

    This would be laughable were it not so serious. Charging for an unlicensed F1 mod. Talk about playing with fire. This is one mod that will never be allowed to see the light of day, and rightly so.

  • Anonymous

    We can’t tell if a F1 mod is completely realistic but that doesn’t mean we can’t tell if a mod is absurdly unrealistic.
    People are stuck in black and white mindset of realistic OR unrealistic when in fact there are also infinite many states in between these two.
    It’s not true there is complete lack of data either. For example there are sites where you can read exact Gs at every corner and braking zone at every track. This alone, if your mod matches these values, probably means your mod probably has realistic grip levels. We also know exact top speeds, acceleration figures etc.

    It is true though that in general the faster a car is the harder it is to make a realistic mod for it but there is enough data on the internet to make any car say “90% realistic”. Just don’t make stuff in your head :o)

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    you talk about RFT? yes it is very good, it is also illegal and free …

    So tell us not because it is illegal to sell us about your comprennons but we have ours as you read it.

    But instead you prefer to illegally download data on the internet.

    Or the difference is?

    Take that you either legal content or anything.

    It is either white or black, not both.

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    the only risk is to receive a complaint for creating a 3D like the real thing.

    skins with their logos / colors / sponsors will not be in the mod.

    Teams do not attack us for one reason, our work is fictional.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    Wait a second. Since when is Formula 1 fictional? I remember watching this fictional Formula 1 thing from 2001 till 2011, guess I just dreamt it all.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    Wait a second.. From day one I was already saying this was crap work. And oh it was oh so offensive and so wrong to say so since I couldnt do it better. And now it is okay cause they use Formula Reiza sounds and sell the mod for €2? Seriously?

  • Anonymous

    Well, I think I just didn’t fully expound on the idea. When I say realistic, I mean real world data: the suspension geometry, engine curves, and aero data straight from the real car. Excepting something like an accessible road car and customer racing cars, this data simply isn’t accessible to modders. This kind of data, given a high enough fidelity physics engine, should simply produce a 1:1 accurate car.

    Then you have what I would call ‘believeable’ cars, which I’m sure others would consider ‘realistic’. That’s fine, purely a naming convention. The difference being that while the particulars of the car might not be identical, to the vast majority of us won’t be able to detect the differences. Honestly, given the wealth of F1 information, this kind of fidelity is probably within reach, at least for previous seasons. You know the tire size and general grip, you know whether each car is pushrod or pullrod on each end, and you can sanity check the overall performance.

    The issue here being that this car has likely never been pushed 100% yet, and definitely not in public. That’s part of the gamesmanship of motorsport, don’t show your hand too early. While they can recreate the visuals of the Ferrari, there is no way to know the actual performance of this year’s car. It’s nothing but an educated guess at this point, one that has no point of reference to reality at this moment.

    So while the car might be a convincing representative of a modern F1 car, there is no way to know whether it’s a convincing 2013 Ferrari, because nobody outside Maranello knows its peak performance yet. Beyond the standard mod limitations on info, being preseason there simply isn’t anything worthwhile to compare to.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    And since the models are so crappy it is quite easy to have “3 significant changes”

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    Nope, because those aren’t a commercial product.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think the use of the word ‘cancer’ is particulary offensive in this instance. It’s a common usage: “an evil or destructive practice or phenomenon that is hard to contain or eradicate”.

    I think it’s fair to say that you disagree with that assessment, but I don’t think that makes his description of his viewpoint unreasonable.

  • Anonymous

    Everyone’s missing the most obvious IP violation. Anyone who uses the name “F1″ usually ends up getting forced to use a different name as soon as the Formula One Group finds out about it. Hoping to stay under the radar probably isn’t the safest bet, FOM has an ironclad case against anyone releasing anything with F1 in the name.

  • Anonymous

    What you said back then was offensive and unthoughtful and it still is.
    The fact that they used Reiza’s sound for the demo is not ok however and I agree about that.
    If they use a fictional name on the mod, cars and sponsors they might get away with FOM going after them or they won’t. We will see this in the future.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Then our opinions simply differ. He referred to people as being a cancer, not a practice or a phenomenon. Bit harsh.

  • Anonymous

    I see your view.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    It indeed is illegal and free, compared to illegal and €2,- Not to mention that even for an illegal mod like RFT their models are of much, much better quality

  • http://twitter.com/Rancho25 Philipp Ostaschewski

    So why exactly should I pay for a mod? Do you have real data? Or did you record some real sounds? Did you at least buy the license so you’re allowed to copy the shape 1:1? Don’t bother answering these questions, they’re rhetorical ;)

    Another thing I see happening here, is FOM and Codemasters starting to get interested in the sim-racing community. I wouldn’t be much surprised seeing some lawsuits coming up when they see modding groups taking money for things they don’t hold the respective licenses for…and that’d be the end to sim-racing as we know it…

  • Skytrill

    This might be the step too far that would result in a complete ban of any kind of F1 related mods. Once FOM will start getting curious about modding more than one mod will be forbidden and there are no better ways to get attention than to sell a copyrighted name.

  • http://twitter.com/f1ligue f1ligue

    The only thing that is sold is the 3D that resembles the real.

    If you’re not fit, do not buy!

    Why so much hatred, aggréssité our work.

    We will not sell a car with a blue bull redboule but it will be called a car that looks in the Redbull forms but the true colors or logos or sponsors.

    Now it will be my last comment here, I find that many people post to criticize our decision to sell our work (10 hours a day for over a month) and you want to be paid also to download?

    We are not the only ones to pay for our work, unlike other asks you not 5 or 10 euros per car!

    but 2 small euros to participate and thank us for our work.

    Thanks to our mod (those who buy) they can play with others, to run their forum, run their F1 championship.

    Because so far what mods available free of F1 before the first official race?

    These are all mods converted CODEMASTER and you play with!

    is it legal?

    you’re shocked that someone steals the product created by a video game company and make her business?

    Good night all,
    For those who want the mod it will go on our website.
    no advertising

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    You think these shapes are copied 1:1 ? :)

    Yeah I can really see FOM stepping now that 2 Euros has been introduced. Lets see them sue some guys in mod group for hundred of thousands of dollars that they don’t have over a €2 charge. Should be fun to watch if anything :)
    Soo much drama…again. When was the last sim-racing lawsuit btw ? One that went beyond the initial warning letter telling a mod group to remove the mod?

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    But that didn’t happen with CTDP, MMG or FSOne. Only difference here is €2 euro for inexact car models with fictional skins.
    I wonder if people are more ‘worried’ about the legal aspects of this or not wanting to pay for mods in the first place.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I think one of the mod authors already said that Reiza sounds would not be in the final mod. He shouldn’t have used them without permission for the demo imo either though as that has gone public, but just saying.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I just wonder how illegal a free mod is. For example..

    - If i sketch or paint a picture of Lewis Hamilton in a McLaren taking 130R, is my sketch/painting illegal or is it just artwork ?
    - Is it illegal for me to sell it ? (see ebay and websites for many examples of such work).

    - Is it illegal for me to give it away to a friend ?
    - Is it illegal for me to give copies away to lots of friends ?
    - What if I render it instead, is that illegal or just arkwork ?
    - What if I give a copy to a friend ?
    - What if I give a copy to lots of friends ?
    - What if i put it on my website (as I have done for the last 10 years and not had a single complaint – and some F1 teams are aware of my site).
    - What if I model an F1 car ? Illegal or art ?
    - What if I put a correct livery on it ? Illegal or art ?
    - What if I model and skin the rest of the F1 grid ? Illegal or art ?
    - What if I pass the mod to a friend ? Illegal or art ?
    - What if I put the mod on a website for download for free ? (ditto)
    - Is a sketch or a painting or a render or a 3d model or a whole mod illegal or art ? If not when does art stop being art ?
    - If I charge 1 penny for a mod, does that make it illegal ?

    Where is the line really ? Can we really say we know ? I don’t and I spent 22 year in a law firm (not as a lawyer but surrounded by them).

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I think the question of how accurate your cars are compared to the real thing is debatable. If you took the skins off and showed people clay renders of the cars and asked them to guess which is it, do you think they would guess the car ? The Sauber, from what I remember is not accurate and people have been saying, from the screenshots, that the cars are not accurate so those people perhaps shouldn’t be getting themselves in a twist over if the mod will be deemed illegal based on the models.

    Putting the 3D models to one side, I think you have done the exact right thing in terms of the skins. The only way you could get away with it.
    Fictional skins on the paid mod and a free skin pack for download separately. Whether that gets through a loophole I dunno, but it is certainly how I would have done it in your position.

    €2 as a charge for your work is no big deal to anyone with a sim-setup (except maybe CurtOnTheRadio but he knows I`ll look after him :) )
    Whether that charge makes the mod illegal because of the car models, I cannot honestly say.

    But would you be confident enough to pick a random F1 team or even Codemasters and show one of your cars to them and ask for their permission as the model is not 100% accurate to the real car ?

  • Anonymous

    Agree with everything here.

    When you said “Not sure how an F1 mod could ever be realistic” it just sounded to me like you think that every F1 mod is absolutely nuts unrealistic – oh well that’s the internet, not always easy to write the whole idea. ;)

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    You are right about the hypocrisy that exists. There do seem to be double standards once money comes in to play. No-one seems to bother too much about lawsuits and the end if sim-racing as we know it when it comes to ripped mods which I think is more fitting for a lawsuit than your mod.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I have to say that definition of the word seems a little restrained considering what I’ve seen it do to people. I’m reading it and thinking ‘Yeah, you’re not kidding!’

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominguezolaondo David Dominguez Olaondo

    I don’t know if my english is terrible or your lecture comprension failed here. What I meant is that ripping stuff from other games is one of the biggest problems of simracing, as this affects to real simracing companies (we have the example of Renato here). Few weeks ago there was some debate about paying mods, with some people being mad saying that this was the biggest problem of the simracing community, that we lost the spirit, blabla… and I find the first thing much, much worse than asking money for certain mods (because after all we are talking about content made by scratch).

    I hope I was clear now.

  • Anonymous

    I won’t be talking about paying for this mod as I still haven’t sorted on that with myself yet. But one thing that is strange for me, looking on those screens, is that rear wing is very wrong. Basic shape is OK, but both main flap and movable (DRS) flap are too far back. Main flap should be starting at rear wheel center line (where front edge of endplates is).

    But if I look model as a whole, it does look good considering how quick it was made.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I totally agree with you. I said pretty much the same thing in a post above.

    Sorry about my ‘lecture comprehension failure’ ;)

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    The model not being accurate is a good thing this time. :)

  • Explosive Face

    Oh god, why are you doing this? I’m mostly fine with high-quality fictional mods being sold, but this isn’t high-quality. This is one of those quick and dirty F1 mods made for the people who just want the new cars, with no regard for quality, but done many times before by people not motivated by financial gain. The previews looked barely up to par, and I was only considering trying it for 5 minutes to see how something like this handles in rFactor 2. To see you charging money for it is laughable.

    And dangerous. You can’t call your mod “F1L2013″, release the liveries separately and expect to get away with everything. You ARE going to call the attention of the people who have the power to destroy this community. The modders that do this with a much higher standard for quality FOR FREE won’t be able to defend themselves. They’ll fold under the threat of serious legal action, just like Enduracers. We will lose groups like CTDP, MMG, FSONE, F1SR, as well as the very talented individuals, all because you were greedy enough to charge for your half-baked mod.

  • WaitingForAC

    iRacing’s F1 car is completely unrealistic and they have all the numbers.

  • Dani .

    It’s illegal when it reproduces some registered trademark or content without permission. That’s all.

    With reality in the other hand, is illegal when the owner of the trademark points you in a lawsuit.

    Pay for a mod or not. That’s personal.

  • Dani .

    Hope cancer is isolated, can coexist in the organism, and won’t be full metastasis.

  • Anonymous

    Did any of them use the exact term “Formula One” or “F1″?

    In general, if you haven’t been told not to use the words, that’s only because FOM doesn’t know you’ve done it yet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    I have read that. However, a demo would be representative of the final product. So the whole package would have been close to finished already.

    If you ask me there is quite a large chance that they will either use the Reiza sounds like now, or modify them just a little, but we’ll see how things work out, I wasnt a large fan already of paying for a good quality mod(T5 Series, in case anyone is wondering), This just makes that mod looks better(both on “modding ethics” as well as mod quality).

    I think that the T5 Series was the first mod to take the chance, and just was that first sheep that jumps over the fence with the rest following. Now we probably will probably see payware mods growing out of the ground, no matter how bad they are.

    And well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, some like it because they like it, others say nice stuff just to be nice, and I just happen to like being honest, write what I really think, instead of trying to be nice or anything.

    But well, my thought here is; I’d rather have no mods at all than see a joke like this, this is just a big middle finger to Reiza, as well as the whole modding community, as a maker or as a consumer of the mods, I hope this is the last of them, but I’d doubt it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    I personally dont think that an mod like RFT is “illegal”. But with stuff like with Enduracers going on, I think we are safe to asume there are some edges to the whole legality thing.

    The content they make, I’d see it as “fan content” just as a painting, and is just legal.

    However something like using “F1″, “Formula 1″, or “Formula 1 World Championship” to name your mod is illegal, as it is a registered trademark.

    On the cars itself, we saw for example the Enduracers mod, those arent really commercial product. The commercial product is Formula 1, and the cars are merely “Tools” to show/use this commercial product. imo much like the Champions League football. it would be legal to copy it’s design, but not do so and brand it with the UEFA Champions League brand.

    Lots of weird stuff going on in that area, and way too complicated to fully understand it, unless you’re a lawyer

  • Matt Orr

    I cant wait for one of these guys to get smacked with attorneys. Then most of us sane people can go and say “told ya so” and laugh.

    Over / Under – 3 months from release this happens. Before or after.

  • http://twitter.com/TheRoggan Roger

    How does it drive? Is it any good?

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Why ? Because they dare charge €2 ? For this you want them punished so badly ?

    Believe me, they are not risking the collapse of the sim-racing community like some think they are.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Lots of assumptions in your 2nd paragraph. Can’t say I agree with any of them either.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    If you go to CTDP’s home page, they refer to ‘F1 2006′ and ‘F1 1994′.

    MMG the same, reference to F1 2007 mod and now F1 2008.

    FSOne do not, but these mods all use proper liveries and models as opposed to this mod which in its final guise will have fictional liveries and car models that aren’t as accurate to the real thing as those other aforementioned mods.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I don’t see all mod makers opting for the payware route though. Some will have waited for others to test the waters first, but others will remain as they are imo. feels3 for example hasn’t jumped to payware. Can’t say what future plans are but I don’t see it as a sin to charge for your work providing you keep it legal and not use peoples work without their permission.

    The only thing in modding that really annoys me is people who blatantly rip work from other games like CM, pCARS etc and actually have the audacity to put a disclaimer that no-one is allowed use ‘their work’ without permission from them. That one defies belief.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Yeah you’re right about using F1, Formula 1 etc. They are trademark names. You see that said in the official games.

    The name of this mod would need to change in order to comply legally in that regard.

    As for Enduracers, that was just Porsche who asked them to remove their cars. No other manufacturer from that mod has done so, so either Porsche are very finicky or they had a reason to do so. I suspect the latter.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Indeed. Although I think that before any lawsuits occur, the procedure seems to be a warning letter to remove the content or else.
    It only goes further if the offending party does not comply or contests the warning. Same happened on some torrent sites. Warning first then legal action afterwards. Saves money if they can just fix it with a warning.
    Re-offending would be a different matter and RFT have done mods in the past without problem and the only difference here is there is a tiny €2 charge involved, fictional skins, hopefully sounds that are used from somewhere WITH permission and car models are recognisable but have numerous inaccuracies too.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Heh, they won’t get totally destroyed. Come on think about it. An army of highly paid lawyers will not be called in. You’re going to pay an army of lawyers to do what ? Take down a €2 mod ? Then how will you recoup your costs ? Make the mod makers sell their houses ? :)
    If any powers that be are against this mod, and god knows this thread has drawn enough attention to it, then I reckon a warning letter will be the first thing issued, if anything, and I suspect will be complied with if they know what’s good for them.
    You don’t just go in all guns blazing on something like this. Against a multi-national company, maybe. But not a bunch of guys, working on a hobby and charging €2 for their work. Suing them will yield very little in return and any harsh legal action will hardly fit the crime here.

    It’s not like they are CM releasing an F1 game without a licence.

    Gotta get some perspective here.

  • Marco Hooghuis

    Yours is also illegal…

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Personally it’s not for me. I find the FFB lacking, the textures are low quality, the models are simplified (which is to be expected considering the time taken) and the feeling is sterile and a bit numb.

    I’ve played mods that are a little worse in terms of feeling, but they were free.

  • Jos

    there’s another demo out by rft, sounds and graphics are good, only the car bottoms out in corners.

  • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

    Lot of good valid points in this post in my view.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    True, I dont see all of them making the step either, but now that the first 2 are there others will follow, and new people will also come to the modding scene, make something crappy(or rip something) only to try to make money of it, and that is something sure a few rippers will also do. It is all just a step in the wrong direction imo, donations is a much better way to go.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

    i don’t consider it the end of the world, but i strongly belief the modding community will suffer. The basic idea of payware mods is ok. the problem is that it only works in a perfect world. like i stated before, i am sure it will not take long before greed and hate will take over, and then we do reach the collapse of things we used to take for granted.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    ripped content is allready beeing sold, how many times did you tryed to stop anybody to that and how many times did you tryed to stop ripping from other games overall so modders wouldnt disaper?
    Its up to you if youre going to support and buy crappy or ripped mods. Market will allways handle this quickly, if its ripped it wont be sold, if its bad again it wont get sold.
    But if that will bring people back to modding, few bucks shouldnt be to hard to support them if youre allready for donation part it makes no diferente if you pay it right away.
    So many people here were so loud about donations all the time, i wonder how many of you supported modding teams in the past with that allready or even do now.
    Donations model as youre talking about is just to get away not to pay a cent for anything.

  • Anonymous

    From my experience that warning letter tends to be the first notification that you owe thousands of £££s, after they recover their court fees from you. It’s enough to warp your perspective a bit, yes. This was for something so much smaller than what’s going on here too. Although it depends entirely on what lawsuit company you are dealing with, it’s better just to play it safe, stay off the radar.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    And the modding community is suffering allready for last years, manny modders are gone, ripping is 90% of mods beeing done for last 2-3 years and that is what did and will do damage more than anything else. Maybe this will bring the modding to right track again and bring more new ones to.
    For some here its clearly that you lived in youre perfect world. Greed and hate youre mentioning was here before and this will not change it.
    Just look to the overall news on this kinda sites and read about other stuff, its allways something people will hate and complain about.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Donations are only better because it’s optional but it doesn’t guarantee a monetary return for your work if that is what you want.
    They are better only in that they avoid legal wranglings.

    When it comes to people who put illegla or ripped mods up for sale, I think it is down to the community to firmly react to that by a) not buying it and b) 3rd party websites refusing to advertise it and c) firm, negative but not abusive feedback. That is just my opinion.
    But by the same token I think if the mod is a quality one it should be equally as praised as a free one. The mod artist or group shouldn’t be discriminated against because he wants some return for his/their hard work.
    Again, only my opinion but I think it’s a fair one.

    Charging money is one thing. Getting it is something else.
    IMO, ripped mod authors will have no recourse to complain if someone buys their mod and redistributes it for others to download free. But I don’t think that should apply to legal payware mods of bad quality. There it is simply an option for you to buy it or not. If the mod is crap, it likely will not sell.
    Applying a price to the mod SHOULD be an incentive to the mod maker to lend it some quality and be fully legal if they want to financially benefit from it.
    If DRM mod or CTDP mods were payware, I would happy pay for them and have no qualms about it whatsoever. They are quality and they have clearly had hard work put in and will get my moneys worth time and time again in the enjoyment of playing it.
    A £50 tank of petrol might last me 1 or 2 weeks and it’s gone with nothing tangible at the end of it.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Payware modders should definately play it safe and do so by keeping it legal. That is different to not wanting them to charge for their mods completely.
    If you get a notification that you owe thousands of pounds, then that is not a warning letter. :)

    Personally I`d like to see a big power try to recover their costs from some guy who compiled a mod from a PC in his home. Good luck with that I say. They know they wont be able to unless he`s loaded and chances are he won’t be so if they can get away with fixing things with a warning letter, I suspect that is the route they will try first.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hornbuckle1 Michael Hornbuckle

    VirtualR is a 3rd party website that is now advertising a mod with ripped content; i.e. the sounds are ripped without permission from Reiza…This entire post should be removed until that is corrected IMO. Doesn’t matter that they say it won’t be in final release.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    If somebody sees youre doing a damage to them, even as free mod you will get a letter right away, it happened few times allready in all those years.

    Some of you here are actually really holding on some modding teams and nothing from them actually for years and the biggest names you pointed out here are from F1 mods out so or so and some allready stated that there is maybe one mod the only one that will be done and has nothing to do with F1 anymore.

    I think that some stuff should be cleared out here before you all go and praise all the modding teams that did work in the past! They are all gone. The biggest modding teams were usually so or so involved in F1 that gave us steady mods rate every year so where does that leaves us? Open youre eyes, and really look to the news of new mods that are beeing announced and that actually see the light at the end to.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    It is also up to us as a community to not support or condone the selling of illegal and ripped mods.

    Legal mods, whatever the quality, should be left to sell. If they are crap they won’t sell. Word spreads quickly around here as you know.

    If payment is an incentive to guarantee a higher quality of mod, I’m all for it.
    I`ll reserve judgement on the negative side of things like greed and hate until it happens. It people choose to post hateful things or insults etc (which isn’t something new btw – we’ve had hate in this community for as long as I can remember), then perhaps they are more the problem than the mod makers. But anyway that kind of talk won’t appear here.

    Greed is another thing but the greedy ones will still have to produce quality stuff otherwise they`ll get nothing.

    Out of principal sim-racers shouldn’t pay for ripped mods even if they want it. If they do, then yeah, it can be a very slippery slope so we have to play our part and not let that happen.
    I know Montoya wouldn’t knowingly put a ripped mod as a thread here on VR. Gotta keep it legal and a decent quality if you want to fight in the payware arena otherwise expect some damning opposition.

  • Anonymous

    Ok. I have done a reasonable amount of laps @ Malaysia GP layout. In my opinion this mod is better then the ISI F1ish openwheeler. On slow corners it still has got grip unlike the ISI F1ish wich seems 2 have no grip at all on low speed corners. Also with this mod its possible to attack the curbs and slam over them like they do in real F1 cars at certain tracks. Corner exits can be overdone but it isn’t impossible to make a quick exit without spinning around alot. It isn’t like some other mods on rF1 with impossible to drive physics. I am quiet supprised I must say. For a demo this mod does very well and I’am looking forward to have the full mod.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    “And the modding community is suffering allready for last years, manny
    modders are gone, ripping is 90% of mods beeing done for last 2-3 years
    and that is what did and will do damage more than anything else. Maybe
    this will bring the modding to right track again and bring more new ones
    to.”

    I don’t know where you get your 90% from or how accurate that is but I do have to agree with this. Car mods lately have been few and those that have are ripped conversions without permissions etc.

    Maybe this will bring modding back on a good path and entice new mods to surface – I hope you’re right. But it might not. Either way, I think it deserves to be given a chance for us to find out. I think we owe it to ourselves to give it that chance and not to instantly chastise anyone who wants to make their work payware just because it means you have to pay for it.
    If I was going to complain it would be if the mod was crap quality or illegal/ripped. Normally if I see something that is crap, I don’t get in the guys face about it, I just don’t bother to download it. Why waste the time and energy ?
    But if they are asking money for it, I feel I would have the right to tell them their product was crap if I’ve paid for it. But if I’d played a representative demo first then I could hardly complain too much afterwards.
    Which is another thing… payware mods should have free demo’s that a truly representative of the final product. This one didn’t and that was a mistake.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Clearly then I need to put more laps in on this. How are you finding the FFB ? Mine was numb and pretty lifeless on my Fanatec. Steering resistance was very low.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    90% is quick rate if we really go deap as i followed and i know what friends and leagues are running and what was popular these years and that were shift2 GT1/3 mods, Codies mods and they were in XX numbers allready last years than there are tons of forza conversions going on and only few were really scratch mods that were released. I mean this by last 2-3 years, not since rf1 release.

  • http://www.bsimracing.com/ Wim

    i respect your opinion, but i am still firmly convinced that the words Modding, and Money will never mix. if you charge for a mod it becomes a product. Once you have a product up for sale you have to comply to business rules. Allot in here seem to think, you can play company without having any quality, tax , or trading laws to follow. I make something, cash in on it … but when somebody asks something, i will just be a modder…. something does not add up here…

  • http://twitter.com/SeanvanderBurg1 Sean van der Burg

    In that case, it won’t be illegal, but again, what is the point of buying this mod when free mods will appear as well? These may be illegal, but I don’t think lawsuits will stop the F1 modding community, check the F1classic forum for examples.

  • http://twitter.com/SeanvanderBurg1 Sean van der Burg

    Exactly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720446041 Nazirull Safry Paijo

    tried F1RFT the other day. ISI Formula Masters is much much better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    Well what youre pointing out here is now personal modder or bussines problem if there is any. Quality will allways be regulated by those wich one they prefer and we have seen alot of bad and good quality in the passt.

    You are beeing convinced here on something you dont give a chance and youre only into personal good than anything else right now, rather than giving a chance if it could be something good out of this. If something bad would happen it would for sure not affect you or anybody else that is not involved in that.
    And for sure many other game platforms are doing exactly this concept for years with no problems.

    Im not here on defending now F1ligue actually but open bit more for the concept and that it can bring good to.

    Thought they did it completly wrong from my view on how did they go into this but hey, better now so everybody will learn for the future.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    This is diferent mather on F1 mods yes, especially as there are so many people doing it and i can see it allready that there will be again 10+ F1 mods this year.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I don’t think for one minute that lawsuits will stop the modding community.

    Whether there is a point to buying the mod is something the buyers have to decide for themselves.

    There is one thing I would want in a paying F1 mod. Historical data. I want a Red Bull to be quicker than a Marussia etc. Having all cars with same physics and performance is of no use to me whatsoever unless I’m going online. The last historically correct F1 mod was…. FSOne09 wasn’t it ? Yeah it’s been a while.
    League style mods are not for me, especially payware.

  • Anonymous

    Lots of comments reference “legal” versus “illegal” mods.

    There are almost no legal mods, in my view.

  • Anonymous

    The car drives pretty good on a rubbed circuit. I always start on a track that ran half an hour with 20 f1 cars. The FFB feeling is good doesn’t feel numb. I use a T500

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Waiting for AI cars to rubber in the track is getting annoying. I hope they plan to introduce a rubbered in and race-ready track preset pretty soon.
    It seems when I tried the mod I was running with a wheel preset that had reduced FF effects. I’ve sorted that now.

  • Anonymous

    U can save the tracksurface any time. So u just have to do it ones and then you can use the saved track anytime u want. I’ve got a whole collection of surfaces. U can find the option to save is somewhere @ the timetable screen during a session. When u got a saved surface you can select it @ the session options before u start a session.

  • Matt Orr

    Why? Yes. And no, not because I’m a cheapskate, but because they are asking for it.

    Disclaimer – I wouldn’t have played this anyways, when it comes to F1 it’s strictly CTDP or none for me. F1 cars suck to drive, so if you want me to drive, it better be truly special.

    I don’t know how you can say that stuff like this doesnt hurt the community.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Ah yes I know about this but it still means you have to spend time initially rubbering in the track. Just be nice if there was already a preset so you can just get out there quickly if you want to. Should be hard to do. It was the default in rF1.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Without trying to sound too harsh here this isn’t all about you. I don’t want you to drive and I’m doubt mod makers have you in mind then they think about how amazing their mod is going to be.

    I didn’t say it doesn’t hurt the community, I said they are not risking the collapse of the community.
    What hurts the community more is people with bad attitudes who want to see others hurt and can do no better but hate on others. As if they’ve done anything personal to you. Cos you sure seem to be taking it personally.

    What is your beef exactly ? You don’t like the idea of payware mods ? The €2 charge ? The quality of the mod ? That they named it ‘F1′ ? Or that they are, in your eyes, risking the health of the community that you clearly hold so dear ?

  • Anonymous

    I like what you say Wim also is it true that a few of the better modding teams had sponsor or sites that utilized advertising to generate money? AFM I have the highest regards for the efforts put into such works by the individuals who do it and feel they are deserving of something tangible but also very much for the dotting of the I’s and crossing of the T’s in regards to the legal standpoint.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000119964258 Tomas Beha

    Typical, community wants realism, but would like a way to disable it too…

  • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

    Payware mods should be fully complete and high quality when released. If they are not, then the scene is open to abuse by “after a fast buck” merchants. Both payware mods so far, have failed in at least one of those categories

  • http://www.facebook.com/alless84 Ales Ogrinc

    Everybody would prefer CTDP but hey there are none F1 mods from them anymore!

  • Anonymous

    If rFactor 2 can get payware laser-scanned tracks man this would leave rF2 in a better position than both iR and AC. Payware mods will make sure content is not junk and people are paying for it.

  • Anonymous

    Eeehm. Haven’t seen a CTDP, MMG or FSONE mod for years its 2013 not 2005. Most of them don’t have the time or are working on commercial products. You can check for 5 minutes to see how it handles in rF2 for free with this demo so whats the problem? And if u do a reasonable amount of laps you would know this isn’t a bad quality mod as u state from seeing a video and some pictures….

  • Anonymous

    Lots of good valid points based on things from the past and based on seeing only pictures and a video…?

  • Anonymous

    Explaine why its better? because especially at low speed I think ISI FM to little grip and u can’t attack the curbs like reallife. Those thinks feel better with this mod. Both have strenghts and weakness but I wouldn’t say one or the other is better.

  • Anonymous

    When I got the time I start on a green track because surface progress is rF2s best feature. They are miles ahead on this compared to the competition. But sometimes its nice to get a good rubbed surface right at the start. It’s also unrealistic 2 start on a green track every time u are in a new session.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I’m not community, I am an individual. What I want is an option. It’s got nothing to do with removing or disabling realism. Rubbered in tracks are not unrealistic. By that logic, the ‘quick race’ should be disabled for many series’ then, as should ‘reset vehicle’, invulnerability, switching camera view, pause, pressing ‘esc’ to return to pits, instant damage fixing… need I go on ?
    And whats ‘typicll’ about it ?

  • Philip Samuelson

    Thank you for your response, but you may want to reread what I actually said. How can we tell if their MODELS are realistic? By looking at them.The good Lord gave us eyes lol.

    How can we tell if the SOUNDS are correct? By listening to them. The good Lord gave us ears… and high fidelity surround sound ;).

    How can we tell if the STEERING is lifeless? By feeling the wheel, a force feedback wheel in particular that is set up correctly for the type of racing.

    I never once pointed towards incorrect or poor physics. In fact, I pointed at everything but. Just throwing that out there. Eyes, ears, and hands — That’s all the tools I can be using to judge realism, and my post reflected that.

    -Blacker.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    I like to think that evolution gave us eyes and ears rather than a mythical being from the sky. If you’re gonna add religion to the mix, then it deserves to be countered. :)
    Which is why it should be left out of topics like this.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    No they do not attack you because they dont know of the existence.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wesley.modderkolk Wesley Modderkolk

    I think it is quite simple why there is so much hatred;

    You are asking 2 euros for low quality models, with probably bad quality physics and Formula Reiza sounds, Honestly I dont see how you can even be shocked by that outcome. You know people here have a limit too about how much crap we can take. And this is simply above the limit.

    Also;
    “Now it will be my last comment here, I find that many people post to criticize our decision to sell our work (10 hours a day for over a month) and you want to be paid also to download?”

    Nobody wants that. However Modders and consumers of those mods would like some respect in the scene, instead of some people who want to do an quick work and then make a living out of that. I’m sorry, but that gets no respect at all from me, and probably others too.

    “Because so far what mods available free of F1 before the first official race?”

    Oh so you ask €2 because of that you are the first? I have seen app developpers do the same, asking an amount of money for their work just because they can and they were the first.

    “These are all mods converted CODEMASTER and you play with!

    is it legal?”

    Who said it was legal?

    “you’re shocked that someone steals the product created by a video game company and make her business?”

    Nah I’m not shocked, I just find it disrespectful towards the game developpers who made it and a middlefinger to the whole community. And then you even try to make money out of it too.

    Seriously, You show the whole community your a$$ and then expect the community to just swallow what comes out of it? This is just disrespectful and a disgrace towards the whole modding community. You are making the whole community look bad by your greed.

    Honestly I cannot even see why this article is still on VirtualR. I really hope that this is the last of what we see of this. This is a huge “portal” towards the sim racing community and a lot of people will read this and it will make us look bad, and that is something the community is not. I can imagine Montoya was unknown of this before posting but I really hope this is the last we see of this.

  • Philip Samuelson

    Touche, but I was being a smart ass using the writing of the Bible as my background for sarcastic reasons only. It gave a certain alliteration to my smartassitude :) I was considering ending it with “And on the seventh day, God raced” but I thought that was too much.

  • http://racingrenders.com/ F1Racer

    Maybe, heh :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720446041 Nazirull Safry Paijo

    1. frenly FPS fr cockpit.

    2. Better ffb
    3. Better sound
    4. Havent tried it but with updated tire physics, it wud be good.
    5. Looks better (texture, model)

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hornbuckle1 Michael Hornbuckle

    Considering the licensing issues I wouldn’t bet on seeing payware laser-scanned tracks…not like somebody can just show up with a laser scanner and go to work.

    I’m surprised ISI doesn’t want part of the money payware mods are generating since the mod teams are using the game core to generate income.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Banta/100000477859325 David Banta

    I must ask if running the high risk for legal action is worth a lousy 2 euros per download. it just doesn’t seem worth the risk for so little return. On top of that if any software used in the building of this mod is illegally obtained that just adds to the risk.

  • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

    rFactor 2 Payware modders – “jumped the gun” says Shaun Cole of ISR

    http://insidesimracing.tv/videos/view/910/0/Inside-Sim-Racing-Episodes

  • Anonymous

    Look here for more things you need to consider about the release of this mod as for maybe a checklist of things to look at and what changes you may need to make to allow this to be payware.

    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

  • Anonymous

    Actually, even with the models, the preseason revealed wings often aren’t even what the car will have come the first race.

    I get where you’re coming from (the team being lower quality in comparison to others). My point was simply additional, that the best a mod could ever be is believable, rather than realistic.

  • Philip Samuelson

    I agree with you when it comes to physics. Unfortunately, I still said nothing about physics. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one :)

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think we disagree ;)
    I replied to your comment, but it was more to take the conversation an additional direction than to directly comment on what you said.

  • http://twitter.com/_Jagdstaffel11_ ___ ɥqp ___

    It seems that the the truth hurts someone that one of the ISR team doesn’t think that much of the payware mod and has dared to say so albeit in a respectful way. LOL!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000119964258 Tomas Beha

    And they also talk about rfactor2 still being beta, which it’s not – and it will never be FINAL, it will be in continuing development as ISI have announced long ago.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Simons/100000425606142 Matt Simons

    That would implicate them in any infringement claims.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Simons/100000425606142 Matt Simons

    Ferrari certainly took interest in Batracer which is just a web game, from that point onwards the game has been slowly dying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Simons/100000425606142 Matt Simons

    To get past the loophole on the real skins they can in no way be implicated in its creation or hosting.

    regarding the models the manufacturers also have rights on the car designs so you would also need to have clearance from them. Ferrari are well known for protecting their designs.

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