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In the 2nd kerb comparison through the chicane, iRacings Williams was a bit over the top losing it just riding the front wheel over.
Granted, F1-2011 is rather forgiving on kerbs but I`d have to give it to F1-2011 in that particular comparison. 
Real F1 cars can ride the kerbs without spinning off.  You just have to hit them well and have the setup for it. 
Abuse them and you can be in trouble.

F1-2011 is as forgiving as iRacing is overdoing it imo.  I’d put virtual reality somewhere in the middle of the two.

In reference to a real-life onboard, I’d have to give it to F1 2011. Even though it’s not entirely a sim -at least in comparison with iRacing- yet it looks more logical than how the car handles in iRacing. Makes me wonder how good a sim can be from Codemasters.

What a joke ! We invite all of you to come and try the Williams F1 in iRacing and make your opinions by yourself. Moreover, more than 3 years of research on the tire will be applied on the F1 in these next months.
We don’t say that F1 2011 is bad but there is no comparaison possible here.

Wow, Codemasters impresses Ben in track – in – quite – accurate – shocker!

I believe the Codies track isn’t laser scanned, but even so its a good effort. The iRacing version is still king, it looks amazing, but the Codies one is very good.

I want to try the williams f1 in iracing! is it free? :-$

Kerb riding on iRacing is very hard, not very believable for me.

Your attitude is laughable. The comparison is in the accuracy, not how the car drives. And before you spout on about scanning, it’s widely known that the codies track is not laser scanned, so don’t try and hold that over it.   Personally I think Codemasters ahve done a sterling job on the track, its brilliant, and the layout is accurate, as we can see by putting it next to the iRacing one.

The track in F1 2011 is well done, as i said, but the iRacing one is a master one.
And don’t say “not how the car drives” when the end of the video focus on how car drives on curbs…

This will be solved in few months with the new tire model applied on F1.

No comparison possible Julien ?  And yet here we have it. 
I’ve tried the iRacing FW31 and I wasn’t blown away.  In fact I can get just as good an experience in rFactor if I’m honest.
Track accuracy doesn’t even come into it here.  You could compare these two cars on fictional tracks for that matter. 
I don’t think the kerbs at Suzuka are designed to throw off an F1 car if it dares to ride them.
iRacing may be doing 3 years tyre research but maybe they should spend time on the suspension too and it clearly doesn’t like riding a kerb if that video is anything to go by. 
Any F1 fan will tell you that F1 cars ride kerbs.     
The first comparison at Degner was sheer abuse of kerbs and the result in iRacing was the car going off.  While I agree that the car might not have got away with that move in real life, iRacing punished the driver a bit too heavily I think.
While on the other hand in F1-2011, it was too forgiving at Degner.    Which is why I think something in between could be just about right.

If you read carefully, I was never debating that the iRacing version was the best one.

And well, actually I find that last part of the video dubious. I agree with what F1racer wrote, as I watched this I was also watching the race itself. And iRacing is indeed too harsh on the curbs here, while F1 2011 is a tad too forgiving.

iRacing track looks better for me, colors seem more realistics.

Funny as it seems there is no curbs in F1 2011. :)

Have you noticed he went over the curb with some throttle, to show what the car does in the same conditions as in F1 2011?  

Of course a F1 car will spin if you go over a curb with that much trottle. Should I explain to you how a LSD differential works?

F1Racer, my goal here is not to be harsh against you or anyone.
I just would like to say that this video was at first made for track comparaison and it finish in a “how the car drive” comparaison.
The fact is the iRacing F1 is the best version ever made (not my opinion but a fact) but we all know, us and the staff, that we are still far from the real one. And this is why i am an iRacer. Because we talk with the engineers at iRacing everyday and they work day fater day to improve and always improve.
We will have the new version of the iRacing F1 in these coming weeks or months with the result of 3 years of research specially in the curb area.
So, we know where we are.
If any other simulation were better, i would be in.
The only simulation that come close is Netkar Pro.
But Codemaster made a very good job on this F1 2011 and i congrat them for this.
Regards.

F1 2011 seems to stack up well indeed :)

iRacing has some work to do on the physics in many cars yet, some of the cars really do capture a great experience however.

F1 2011 for me is a great gaming experience, sim or not.

the iracing one seems to have more depth or height varience, and some camber to some of the turns, but its the laser scanning of the track surface which would make it feel a ton more detailed.

the f1 2011 seems to pretty much have no kerb effect, while in iracing apex kerbs tend to be pretty much the same thing as a landmine at certain corners/tracks

No comparison fer me. 2 different track version for 2 different purpose.

No one has mentioned how much better the engine sounds in F1 2011 as opposed to iRacing. Sound can make or break immersion for me, and be the difference between a game/mod I drive once and one I come back to time and time again.

When I was watching the video, all I had in mind was how the cars reacted in real life. I couldn’t say much about how close “either” is, because that depends on many factors; driving style, setup, track conditions and temperature. And if I listed all my remarks on both runs, I’d probably say (something in between might just be about right). But layout wise, F1 2011′s looks more proper, and of course I wasn’t referring to the rich visuals.

Anyway, when lapping around while trying to match pace until I ended up with a few realisitc times, there’s nothing I’d complain about, for I’ve never driven an F1 car, and never driven any car on Suzuka either.

In regards to iRacing, I’m quite sure it’s under constant development, and that alone is better than waiting a whole year on the next F1 installment from Codemasters.

for me prefered:

external sounds: f1 2011
internal: iracing (sounds really like toyota v8 engine with ear-plugs on)

F1racer trying to be smart while knowing not much. iRacing F1 car is spinning there not becouse of suspension problems or wooden tires. Simply becouse ride height is set too low for this curb. All curbs on this track can be attacked same way like in today’s TV race, beside last shicane (new tire model will surelly fix that, as it’s already did for other cars) .And I am sure of that cause i spent over 3 days of practicing on this track in this car :) Ah and to all F1 2011 fans, don’t even dare to compare this aracde racer game to any proper simulation in terms of handling. How can u do such thing if cars in F1 2011 doesn’t even have things like real understeer or oversteer :S

If would be nice to see how Ferrari from Ferrari Virtual Academy behaves at Suzuka, just to add another comparison. It’s a pity that it’s not possible to make it!

I find this video pretty insulting tbh, I expect better from VirtualR. The funny thing is ppl always get this stupid perception about curbs. iRacing doesn’t deal with them particularly well, as it is produces an exaggerated effect, it is true, but then again, it still does a better job than F1 2011, simply because you can’t cut a freaking curb like that like it’s nothing, going over the grass and everything lol. Seriously, when a F1 driver does that he will be forced to lose plenty of time, not pretend that is an ideal line doing no corrections at all. Infact you can all find videos of drivers spinning because of curbs on youtube, even in the dry.

So the truth is this:

iRacing’s track is more accurate. (duh)
iRacing’s physics are more accurate. (duh)
F1 2011 has prettier graphics. (duh)

SimRacing nowadays really means nothing, right? Let’s just pretend games like F1 2011, Shift and Forzas are the ones that are really worth it. Yay for bling over substance.

example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5si2FINXgk

this looks exactly like the boing effect iracing produces over curbs like those at Indianapolis.

Now check any onboard from real life drivers at Suzuka, see how much then cut the apex at Degner 1 and Casio Triangle. They don’t. We can use the same lines as real life drivers with zero issues. Same at Spa, where ppl complain all the time about getting inc points by going off track…

For Codemasters having the iRacing laserscanned track as reference made their jobs a lot more easy.

I respect your opinion on the matter at hand, but when you say

“I find this video pretty insulting tbh, I expect better from VirtualR”

This is where I have an issue. It’s not up to you, don’t like it, there’s the door.

I’m just saying what I feel. If I expect better is because I respect the work done here, not a bad thing. Most comparison videos are neutral, this one isn’t. It’s trying to prove a point, and I hate what it is implying because it’s just ridiculous.

It isn’t rediculous. The fact that there’s a tiny bit at the end concerning curbs has taken everyone on a long rambling arguement about the F1 2011 physics compared to the iRacing physics.

IMHO that’s NOT the matter at hand.

What the vide shows is the track layout, and how close the 2 actually are. 

Not a bad thing. If it increases the quality, why the hell not I say xD

@Norbi B*llsh*t. Ok F1 2011 is a arcadish game but you can experience understeer and oversteer you probably haven’t tried the game long enough. I’ve been simracer for 15 years now but every step forward the simgames make in handling and physics, it goes one step back as a complete game. I’ve been playing F1 2011 for 2 weeks without simracing. The reason why? Because I like it lives up more too strategy and singleplayer components. So no f1 2011 isn’t a simracer but the physics aren’t as bad as you say.

I can say that the differences were so small, that not I really couldnt care which was more accurate because it was laser scanned.

Both games were close or accurate enough to make it feel like Suzuka.

I’m not defending iracing and havent been a subscriber for a while now but to me it seemed like the guy driving the iracing Suzuka was overly abrupt with the throttle on the curbs?? Most noticable at the casino example.
Also the steering wheel on the iracing car is disabled so you cant really tell whats happening with the steering input and whether the guy is chucking the car in too aggressively at the curb.
Perhaps there is an issue and the iracing f1 car doesnt handle curbs realistically…..I wouldnt know as I havent driven it. But certainly from a neutral point of view this video seems somewhat biased towards f1 2011.

Norbi, do you always have a compulsion to come across as a bit of a prat ?

I’m noticing a trend with iRacing fans in that they seem to be hyper-sensitive to any threat to their precious ‘ultimate sim’ even if it comes from a so-called arcade racer.
If F1-2011 cannot hold a light to iRacing, then why the need to go all defensive ?  iRacing should be simply able to do it’s talking on the track.

How do you know the ride height is set too low for the ‘kerb’ (not curb) ?     Is this your video with your setup ?    How do we know the ride height in F1-2011 isn’t too high also ?

Oh and don’t assume that any or all F1-2011 fans are NOT iRacing fans too.  It might surprise you to know that it is possible to like more than one game or sim and liking F1-2011 doesn’t make you an enemy to iRacers.   That type of segregation is just stupid and so is anyone who thinks that has to be the case.

I can see you only see in black and white where racing is concerned.  To you there is only pure sim or pure arcade and nothing in between.  No grey areas.   How narrow visioned and uninformed.     Not that I’m trying to be smart, cos me knows nuffin’.

Meaning that right now it’s not quite right ?

Externals are fine in F1-2011 but the internals are horrendous.   It constantly sounds like its overrevving or wheelspinning.  Same in F1-2010.     I could be wrong though because I’m not as smart as I don’t think I am.

Yep, and for an arcade game, F1-2011 seems to be pretty up to scratch compared to the ultimate purists sim of (trumpets please….)… iRacing.

Indeed.  Ive raced on plenty of different version in GP4, rFactor, GTR2 etc…    They all feel and flow like Suzuka.  Thats enough for a lot of people.

Less an issue with the sounds themselves and more a physics problem. Instead of spinning out instantly when you put too much power on it behaves like a 80s estate with an open diff. I think it’s their way of increasing tyre wear when you’re giving it the beans. The actual engine note is top notch, and what I loved most about F1 2011.

I have been disappointed with F1 2011 in regard to how much you can cut corners without penalties.  Sure, eventually you are going to rack up a penalty, but as far as I can tell, this kind of cutting without consequences makes the game silly.  In iRacing, you run over the curbs, you pay the price. Too bad you can’t have the graphics of F1 2011, combined with the realistic feel of iracing.  However, I’ll take sim phyisics everytime over pretty pictures.

The curb issue is the one I chose to discuss, if you don’t feel it’s relevant then ignore, the fact is that it is part of the video and that shows a lot about the video intentions. For instance, he could have easily done a lap in iracing with the big screens and scoring tower actually working, just to add some immersion to it.

the f1 2011 layout is pretty good, nothing we haven’t seen before from Shift, GT5, etcetera though. There are plenty of wrong elevations though, and that is essential to capture the feel of the real thing, but what do I know? As long as it looks right, it must feel right… right?

We all love racing game and we don’t need to offend anyone here.
We love F1 2011, we love Netkar Pro, we love iRacing, etc…
The fact is we have the duty not to misimform the community.
iRacing creates the most authentic virtual track ever made in the simulation history and we have to thank them for that.
But iRacing doesn’t have ghost best lap, AI, external view for driving, etc… and will never have.
Everyone can choose the game that fits you the best, but misinformation is the worst thing for the racing community.
Post here a song on a MP3 version and on a Wave (CD) version and tell everyone there is no difference !?!? It’s the same kind of misinformation.
Regards.

Absolutely not a bad thing, only makes their product more accurate and our enjoyment greater.

Many iRacing track look like they are laserscanned off season on a tuesday.
They are very accurate on the roadside, but next to the road it looks quite deserted.

Why on earth are you talking about feel? This is a VIDEO, its purely about how the 2 different versions of the same track LOOK compared to each other. Physics is difficult but FFB and track surface modelling is impossible to judge from a video. Seriously, iracing people need to be less defensive – particularly when the other game in this instance is from codemasters and clearly not even a competitor…..

And yes, in the case of f12011 as long as it looks and sounds right it feels right is true. When you take away the FFB wheel those the are 2 things that impact immersion the most. Guess what fraction of those that play f12011 will actually use an FFB wheel?

iRacing developped a new level of detail applied on the recent Spa, Okayama, Suzuka, Iowa and the next Zolder. All older tracks will benefit of this technique soon ;)

Yep, sterile and lacking in atmosphere. In truth not the only sim with this problem though.

FYI, that video was done during a testing session.  Not during a race.

Only during a race do you get crowds of people, et al. 

iRacing have stated that they are also working on animations for other objects. 

So would most sim-racers John.

Yep, it could indeed be bad physics causing that constant overreving through the first 3 or so gears.

I am not iRacing fanboy. I just don’t like when someone says that something might be wrong without trying the stuff before any worthy comment. And yes i know the car is set too low, i was practicing 3 days on this track in this car, adjusting setups, and finishing in 3 highest split races this weekend, and been racing in this car since it was released and i simply know that if you want drive over Degner curb you would need insane high ride height which would cost you lot of time. And yes maybe F1 2011 ride height was set way higher, actually i don’t care about it. Before suggesting something is wrong maybe you could first actually go check yourself. No metter is it iracing or any other game, don’t suggest something is broken without deeplly trying it. And i am not narrowed lol. I prefer sim games over arcade games, simply as that, everyone has its own taste. And comparing this two games each other is like comparing call of duty to any other military sim game = no sense.         
       
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VbZukfhA8c        
       
here you got onboard pole lap on suzuka, look that he dont cut over Degner curb, he is slightlly touching it with 1 wheel, same thing with every other suzuka onboard lap, they dont cut over there cause ride height usually dont allow for that. As for last shicane, after watching some more real onboard laps it seems like lot of drivers avoid even touching first shicane’s curb, so it would mean everything looks real with iR, but surelly new tire model will help with riding on curbs even more. Just some curbs can’t be attacked if car is setup to be very stiff and low for so fast corners like on suzuka. 

The video is not purely about track look… I wouldn’t have a problem with that. I think I made it pretty clear what I’m talking about already. And let’s not forget this site is about sim racing, so maybe I’m right, this doesn’t belong here.

” I just don’t like when someone says that something might be wrong without trying the stuff before any worthy comment.”

So you’ve tried F1-2011 at Suzuka also then ?

As much as you don’t care about F1-2011′s ride height, I don’t care about iRacing’s.
I didn’t suggest anything was broken.  If you read what I wrote I said I thought iRacing’s kerb riding was as innacurate as F1-2011′s only going in the opposite direction.   I’m entitled to that opinion.
Saying you prefer sim games over arcade games on VirtualR is needless.  It doesn’t make you special.  I prefer sim too, obviously and I suspect so to 95%+ if people who visit here.   It is a sim-based blog after all.

Not sure why you mentioned Call of Duty because that is only a highlight over your opinion that COD is better than the others.  That is YOUR opinion.  Many others will argue that ARMA is far more war simulated.  Some will even choose MOH.   In the end its all pointless because what really matters is what you get out of a particular game.  There is no right and wrong.
If I said Race07 was the best sim feeling I get from a game then that is not wrong because it is my opinion for me.

If iRacing was that good it wouldn’t need such aggressive defending.  Maybe F1-2011 does need people in it’s corner because it gets an automatic bad rap.   

Don’t need the F1/car setup lectures either.  Been in the game long enough to know and understand that stuff.

I plan on looking at f1 2011 for my PC but regardless like someone else pointed out I dont see anyone leaving iRacing for f1 2011. its still very arcade with AI controlling my car in pits, etc (unless I selected the wrong option when I tested it) & it’s of course missing iRacing’s incredible online setup. 

To be honest justin, fans of every sim are defensive. Thats why we have these arguments.

I like how the guy asked if the iracing f1 was free to try, as if the codemasters version was!!! LAWL LAWL LAWL.

Some people here say the tracks are close enough…. Are you kidding… It’s plain and obvious to see.. and I’m no alien racer… The F1 2011 version is missing so many height changes, dip ins and angles it does not even look close. The S’s in the first few corners are banked inward, sort of like a sand dune or wave motion… in F1 2011 they are dead flat…
Don’t get me wrong.. I play F1 2011 more often than I do iRacing… because iRacing requires time and concentration…. When I play F1 2011 I don’t even plug in my wheel anymore… I just play it with gamepad to pass some time and have some fun…
However fun it might be though, the track in F1 2011 looks like it could be done in Trackmania, and then added with some good graphics…

Agressive defending? I prefer Call of Duty? Never mind, live in your world mate.

for a simracer, visual comparison is not as important as the physics of the car. F12011 and  iRacing have no point of comparison. one is 100% simulation and the other 100% arcade, same as Richard Burns Rally and Dirt3.
 Beautiful  and impressive graphics abound in the last generation arcades (F1 2011, Dirt3, NFS Shift, GT5, etc etc etc) but the closest simulation to real have only few, including iRacing, RBR, GTR2, rFactor, nK -Pro, GTL, LFS, ARCA

My last words.
We love F1 2011 and we love iRacing.
But please stop lying to the racing community.

the thing is even though iRacing is my baby atm I don’t really feel the need to be limited to iracing and I can enjoy what other sims have to offer. What really put me off is seeing such ridiculous lines in the F1 2011 in those corners, and the very first comment and following trying to make a case about how that actually is a point for F1 2011 rather than iRacing.

I have nothing more to say, you cn ride curbs in iRacing, just not full trottle, just like in real life, get over it.

Not sure what the AI control in the pits has to do with a Suzuka track comparison.
And the AI doesnt control your car in the pits, the game does.

F1-wise do you really need me to list all the things that iRacing is missing compared to F1-2011 ?

WTF are you on about, my world ?   How can be anywhere else?  And considering you are debating with me, you must be in my world too.  

Try making yourself clearer.

You forgot GSC as great sim.

If the debate over what is sim or arcade is down to physics then you are free to make up a track comparison video with anything.   People are pissed off about it because they are personally insulted that iRacing should be compared to anything they don’t consider a sim.

This is a track comparison.  Layout, elevation changes, trackside objects etc..  Physics don’t even come into it!    

I do find it very narrow-visioned that you have 2 lists of games and simply put them into 2 different boxes.  It’s just not that simple.   There are levels of sim and arcade and it is NOT black and white with a game being 100% sim or 100% arcade.   Why not 95% ?
If WRC2 is 100% arcade then are you going to say DiRT 3 is also despite that DiRT 3 blows WRC2 away ?

Is GTR2 more or less sim than nkpro ?   Is LFS more or less sim than GTL ?  Are they all 100% or is one better than the other ?   It’s all a matter of degree.
Oh and you missed RACE07 out.   If NFS Shift is arcade, what is Burnout or Mario Kart ?   You going to put them in the same category ?  Seriously ?

Also rFactor is 100% sim?  Most mods are made by young guys in their bedrooms using resources gathered from the net.  Do all rFactor mods have pure sim physics ?  No.
So if you have a mod with ‘arcade’ physics in rFactor, then what is it?  Arcade or Sim ?

Anyone who puts racing games into only 2 categories really needs to re-evaluate things from a more mature and objective perspective.

iRacing has the best physics, tracks accuracy, clean race multiplayer system and realistic graphics, F1 2011 has the best… wait I don’t find anything in fact. :)

The video shows things as they are.  Where is the lie ?  What is the lie ?

People complaining on how iRacing’s FW31 should search some Star Mazda videos. If you get anywhere NEAR curbs the open wheeler will just send you to the nearest wall and no setups will fix that. I wonder if that’s some sort of code problem for open wheelers in iRacing.

F1 racer, you are trolling this thread like a madman. Relax, you dont need to go on the warpath for f1 2011. I see your posts knocking iracers and their “hyper-sensitivity” but ffs man, the same could be said to you and f1 2011 with all these headache inducing posts you’re leaving. You are so “hyper-sensitive” to anyone who doesn’t see it your way and you talk about people being mature as well, yet you dispute any claim that you deem invalid like a little kid with a “look at me” attitude. You are just dying for attention, because i’m guessing people in real life probably dont give you much. It could be your high maintenance woman approach to all this. Get away from your pc and release some built up pressure, if you know what i mean.

Sounds like your the one doing the defending f1 racer.

It is not black and white but at the same time it’s not difficult. It has a lot to do with the target market. rFactor, iRacing, LFS, nkPro are not trying to build a solution for the masses, they are trying to build a solution for hobbyist racers and real drivers who are interested in experience what is like to drive an actual car withing the unfortunate boundaries imposed by our hardware and peripherals. Codemasters, NFS Shift, Forza and GT series are trying to capitalize on the love and popularity of racing in a more superficial level, they aim to reward the player easily with a quick thrill, shiny graphics, dumbed down physics, no need for proper controllers, are all part of that. A game like that could never be called a simracing title.

Well hardly.   Have you seen how defensive the iRacers are?   Someone needs to be in F1-2011′s corner.

Besides na-than, I happen to recognise the strengths of both iRacing and F1-2011 and Im not really saying anything that isnt true or objective.

Aye Nathan.  What a hypocratic post that was.  Everything you have described there, you have just done yourself in 1 post.  Attention seeking, built up pressure etc..

Hehe, I’m not trolling.  Making many posts isn’t trolling. I’m not on the warpath either.  I happen to like a good debate and some people here are easy targets with their narrow sim/arcade viewpoints.
Plus I’m bored this evening with nothing better to do.  
I’ve not posted here for a while so Im hanging out on the net tonight and keeping up with this toic for one night.  You’re not going to allow me that ? :)

I don’t mind if people don’t see things my way.  Everyone has different opinons.  Thats a good thing.  Just allow me to state mine too ok ?    Of course I would dispute claims that are invalid.  I would hardly dispute valid ones now would I ??  

And learn to spell my nickname right will ya.  Its only respectful.
Oh and if you personally want to have it out with me, let me know and I`ll give you my MSN.  Then we can see whats what.

True to a degree but at what point to physics turn from arcade to sim if you put aside whether the title is mass market or not.   Is it then the market audience that decides if its a sim or arcade ?

If all the titles we consider ‘sims’ didnt exist and I gave you Shift 2 and Burnout Paradise.   Which one are you going to think ‘simulate’s race driving better ?    It’s a world of difference.

iRacing has it’s drawbacks, some of which dont make it viable in certain areas (such as no AI, offline modes etc).   F1-2011 has them but doesn’t simulate the car as well as iRacing does.
So it’s pretty much down to each person to decide what they like to drive and what they can have fun with.  Their own opinions.    The rest, all this debate, is largely irrelevant.

Let me help you… F1-2011 has better AI, DRS, KERS, Safety Car, all teams, all drivers, 2011 rules and regs, wet weather, offline play.  And it’s cheaper to run.  
 
For a complete F1 experience, no matter how accurate it may be, iRacing cannot even compete with F1-2011 despite the physics difference.  Ouch! That’s gotta hurt.  
 
No-one is disputing iRacing’s credentials and no-one is saying F1-2011′s physics are better than iRacings because that would just be silly. 

I seriuosly doubt you could set the iRacing F1 in it’s current state to take kerbs like this.

Wow, F1Racer, tonight you’re blowing everything in the water with pure wisdom and consciousness !

2012, here we come ;)

I do some curbs like that in Les Combes for instance and in other places at Spa. The BusStop is the only one that can be really touchy if you are aggressive on throttle over it. OTM has a low speed grip problem.

but please note how much driving skill is also involved there, how Lewis essentially coasts the car carefully over the curbs and has to correct the wheel leaving the curbs. You can easily spin a car if you abuse it, make no mistake about it.

Sure, to each his own, ppl enjoy different things, nothing wrong about that.

Damn… 75 post on such a non important item…
Who’s right….i am… no i am…
Just have fun in whatever game you play!!!
You all could have trained quite a lot of laps instaead of mocking here.

What else do you expect, they have to defend their £700 a year addiction.

I used to race the SM in iRacing, i never had a problem of going into a wall or spinning because of a curb (ok, maybe with the exception of infinion T1/2)

Infact i really enjoyed that car, thinking back.  No doubt it’ll be even better with the NTM

Meh, listing things that F1-2011 does _better_ than iRacing when iRacing dosnt actually do those things, is like saying, im better than beathoven at playing rock drumming.

iRacing wont ever have KERS/DRS until they give us a 2011 car, which i doubt will happen as we already have a modern F1 car, having another will just dilute leagues even more. Which is one of iRacings strongest points, its leagues and community.

Wet weather… iRacing may give us that one day. Though, unless they implement it in a way that too many people wont whinge about not being able to get a dry race in a particular week, or something. NKPro has wet weather and i believe most people who race NKPro dont use it very much and opt for dry races.

About it being cheaper to run, an age old argument that is completly pointless. I’ve been with iRacing for almost 2 years now and im on it almost daily, wether its practice or racing. I spent 50 quid on 2010, played it for 3 days and never touched it again…So maybe people should be talking about value for money, rather than just the set price its-self.  Its what you _get out_ of that money determines wether its worth it or not.

“What else do you expect, they have to defend their £700 a year addiction.”

Typical mis-information being spread, as per.

Like i said in my previous post, ive been with iRacing for nearly 2 years, i have shit loads of circuits and cars. I havn’t spent nowhere near that amount, and im using the service almost daily.

I spend more on coffee’s at work per week than i do iRacing, so you can spend 50£ on a game and play it for a few weeks if you want, but if you wanna work out price/use ratios, i think you’ll be the one out of pocket.

There is no optical, really relevant different, between iR and CM.
That Texturing from CM looks more real, that makes the Illusion nearly perfect to ride a real Car, i a real virtual World.

These two Facts together “beaten” iRacings laserscanned Monopol.

Im glad to see this wonderfull real looking CM Tracks..’cause i know we will see all these Tracks converted next Year in rFactor2 8-)

Take it Isi
Holger

But only in your example, not everyone ditched 2010 straight away. I could argue I paid my $40 for rfactor when it first came out and it still gets a look in twice a week all these years later. A one off fee is and always will be better than a subscription. Likewise Race07, if I paid a subscription for a game I would feel obligated to play it as much as possible to justify the ongoing cost, meaning my other games don’t get a chance.

THE CAKE IS A LIE!

“Meh, listing things that F1-2011 does _better_ than iRacing when iRacing dosnt actually do those things, is like saying, im better than beathoven at playing rock drumming.    
   
iRacing wont ever have KERS/DRS until they give us a 2011 car, which i doubt will happen as we already have a modern F1 car.”  
 
Thats kind of the point I was trying to make when Ricoo was trying to compare iRacing to F1-2011.  It’s equally as irrelevant, don’t you think ?

N G, either cut down on the coffees, make the coffees at work (free) or take a thermos. :)

Mmmmm cake…aargghgghghgh

Comparison is relevant on the points I underlined. You have the right to disagree or be upset, but really I don’t mind.

Cheers.

hehe

The way i see it, if you like a product, you’ll weigh up in your head wether its worth it to you, individually.

I know people who spend far far more on their hobbies. I’ve raced all sorts of sims over the past 10 years or so, and while there are some good ones, iRacing is the complete package, and the (what i consider) small amount of money it costs to run it, then its no problem for me, and given the time i’ve spent on it, oppose to other sims, i’ve gotten far more bang for my buck.

I spent what, 14 dollars on FVA, done a few hotlaps, havn’t touched it since.  Not because its bad, but because it offers me nothing more than a hotlap on my own.  Before i bought it i knew i wasnt going to be able to race people etc, but i thought, 7 english pound for an officially sanctioned Ferrari F1 car with nkpro engine? bargin. i spent that on a pack of cigs today.

Ricoo, but all you’ve done is take a specific list of what iRacing does better than F1-2011 and wrote them out.   I did the same vice-versa.   It depends what you want out of it.  
If you want a 1-make F1 car with better physics than a full 2011 season grid with less accurate physics then iRacing is the way to go.  Otherwise F1-2011 takes an easy win regardless of its flaws.
There is no way I can get a complete F1 experience in iRacing like I can in F1-2011 and if that means I have to sacrifice some physics accuracy and ride a few kerbs if I so wish, then so be it.

Or I`ll play any of the good rFactor F1 mods.  Depends how I’m feeling at the time really.   
I can enjoy more than one, see.  

So you’ve not given me anything to disagree about really I just offered a counter view in the same vain as you did.     As for upset ?   Naaah.   Takes a LOT more than that m8.

Just remember, this isnt a stab at iRacing and if it was, what do you care anyway ?

Can you define ‘complete package’.
There is no wet or dynamic weather, no AI, no offline racing or practice, single make cars and a limited selection of cars and tracks.
Physics, laser-scanned tracks and a good tyre model alone might not be everyones idea of a complete package.  A subscription based one at that.

I dont think I’ve seen a game or sim that is the complete package because the very definition of complete is way too vague.

“Can you define ‘complete package’.  
There is no wet or dynamic weather, no AI, no offline racing or practice, single make cars and a limited selection of cars and tracks.”

Well, Wet/dynamic weather is something we may get in the future, its not a major stumbling block for me at the moment, in sims that do have it, people dont really utilise it anyway, its one of those things that is great in theory but is never used alot.  AI i dont care about, ive never enjoyed racing the computer.  Offline racing, well, you can do personal testing sessions, ok its not technically offline,  you need to be logged into the site, but then, its 2011, who dosnt have the internet these days?    

There is a limited selection of cars and tracks, but then im a quality over quantity sort of person.

When i mean its the complete package.. i get a sim that looks great/fresh (i cant stand frilly over saturated colours), great physics model, with a brilliant tyre model on its way, laser scanned tracks, fantastic cars that are built to awesome accuracy, and a solid league system for getting races, as well as a system that activly discourages bad racing (though, it happens :] )  Then theres the fact that iRacers know their sim is constantly being worked on, day in day out

PS. when i say its the complete package, i am of course meaning, in comparison to its competitors, not most complete package period.  There are areas iRacing is and should be working on. The good thing is, we know iRacing is always being worked on, and new builds are ‘free’

Ok thats all fine.
But what you’re saying is its complete enough for you personally and for your requirements.
It may not be complete for others.   Some may consider rFactor a complete package because of how many different mods and racing genres are on it.   For example you can race in GTR2 or rFactor with a proper field of GT cars (Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc.).   You cannot do this, so far, in iRacing.

So it’s fair to say that complete package is not a hard fast set of rules that define a sim, its dependant on the requirements of each individual.    So to say one package is complete can really only be personal opinion and not a fact.    
iRacing is an amazing sim, there is no doubt, but for me personally it is not complete.  There are things I require in a sim that it doesn’t have and some it may never have.     But that is only my personal opinion because it’s all about my own tastes.

In fact, thinking about it, if someone asked me what I consider to be the most complete racing package, I dunno what I`d say :) .    Maybe rFactor comes closest for me.   It has physics and tyres modelling even if it may or may not be as good as iRacings.  And I can choose GT’s, F1′s,  V8 Supercars, Historic racing, single make racing and whatever else there is for it.
I would consider F1-2011 or even GP4 to be a complete package if you only count Formula 1.
F1-2011 is certainly more complete than rFactor in F1 terms even if its physics may not be as accurate.   Although some F1 mods Ive tried (conversions) in rFactor have physics far worse than F1-2011 :)       Swings and roundabouts as they say.

Completely agree with that post F1Racer. It depends what a user wants from a sim which defines how much they think they’re willing to pay for it. iRacing has what i want and i dont think im being robbed for that service. It maybe expensive relative to other sims, but it has qualities about it that i am willing to pay that bit extra for.