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That’s the first time I’ve seen a puncture turn the tire into jello…still looking forward to the game though.

Wow. Impressive. Those words would be a good bit more genuine and a good bit less sarcastic if the ‘flex’ was in the proper direction according to the load placed on it, rather than the total opposite. Stop watching the flat and notice that the little flex showing up on the left one is backwards. 

Looks goods, is it me or is the flat tyre going the going the wrong direction when turning, cause tyre is touching ground,there for the wheel should be push outwards?

Both of them are backwards, thanks for the confirmation! 8-)

I dont think it is backwards.   Car turns right and so it wants to push out to the left and the tyre doesn’t do it flexes to the right.

Watch some more races :)    It happens.  Maybe not so smooth as the video but it’s more or less as it happens before it delaminates and/or explodes.

sosmannz,  that depends which way you’re turning surely.

Is it really flexing in the wrong direction ?  Hmmm

It is, left turns would force a punctured right wheel in towards the car (and vice versa). Thats a pretty basic thing to get wrong.

I don’t understand. Can someone explain this a bit more clearly?

Mmm, those arms without moving looks like rfactor addon, I hope moving arms like Ferrari F1 GT5 Prologue. :(  

Mmm, those arms without movement in their fingers, looks like rfactor addon, I thought they put moving arms like Ferrari F1 GT5 Prologue. :(

They do move, especially when you change something like brake-bias or engine-maping, the driver moves his arms behind the wheel or changes something on the wheel itself (like in real life). The only thing which is not included is shifting-movement, but that’s very unnecessary as you don’t see it in real life anymore. The last driver where you were able to see the shifting was Jos Verstappen, especially in his Team-Arrows days.

When a car is turning left & the tyre on is half inflated, then the wheel trys to roll off the rim so to speake!

LOL @ Codemasters. You got it backwards, pros!

Gotta hand it to Codies, they are doing some pretty innovative effects I’ve not seen before.

I don’t know why anybody would think the effect is backwards, it’s acting exactly like tyres do in real life lol. The only negative is that it’s obviously working with some animation constraints to keep the CPU strain in check. Sparing it from being a full blown physics deformation simulation at this point, which isn’t needed, but maybe once nvidia physx becomes the standard for all PCs it could be much much more. ATI is being annoying in this respect because it could be done in games now with enough support.

Nonetheless, this is an excellent start.

Gotta hand it to Codies, they are doing some pretty innovative effects I’ve not seen before. 
 
The only negative is that it’s obviously working with some animation constraints to keep the CPU strain in check. Sparing it from being a full blown physics deformation simulation at this point, which isn’t needed, but maybe once nvidia physx becomes the standard for all PCs it could be much much more. ATI is being annoying in this respect because it could be done in games now with enough support. 
 
Nonetheless, this is an excellent start.

@ Carbonfibre: when you turn the steering wheel right, the tires want to go that way, but the car pushes to the left (inertia), hence the tire should look like it’s going to get off the rim to the right. The clip shows it doing the exact opposite.

Oh dear, first the of stripe on the wets, now this 8-) . Someone at Codies, responsible for tyres GFX, seems to have problems with telling a difference between left and right! Still, it’s great to finally have such an animation in the game, I just hope they’re gonna fix the issue above in the first upcoming patch.

hahaha, big true… they can’t make a mistake like that, it is extremely grotesque…………………………..

Nocholas … if Codemaster make a basic error like that in the tire, don’t expect something good of physics in general. After that I think that there are no doubt to be going 100% an arcade game since it is an extremly NOOB error.  =-X =-X =-X =-X

Wait a minute guys. Is that really a mistake or there is some misunderstanding? I don’t think they will make such a mistake, and for me the punctured tyres moved at the right direction, doesn’t it? Perhaps is the airflow around the body controls the movement of the puncture tyre? 

Still getting this game but i mean come on, its simple load and pressure + direction of travel

The punctured tires do actually move in the correct direction at least todays indy car race shows that – Just look at Taglianni’s right rear when it goes down the direction of travel is the same as in codies, what i assume others are talking about is on the opposite tire the load and force are showing the incorrect direction of travel for that tire as this is indeed incorrect.

The side mirrors on the RedBull are incorrect… they were banned way before the european grand prix!!

there isn’t a damage like this in real world! The tyre will bust right away!

Looks like they haven’t updated the tracks at all for 2010. Monaco doesn’t have the yellow combination kerbs and Valencia doesn’t have the green paint.

oh Christ

what a bunch of nitpickers and fusspots all of you are >:o

One sentence… Shut her UP!!!

More importantly, the right wing mirror seems to have come off, which is brilliant news for the damage model.

No it wont, it truly depends on the type of puncture and contact on the tire, a puncture will not always cause a tire to burst nor wil a nice slice into the tire, it will bounce off the rim from side to side as shown.

Have you ever seen a cart/indy car race? punctures were/are common occurance due to the close nature of the racing.

You cant change brake bias while on track only in the setup in the garage.

I think Nvidia have patented physx. or have exclusive use of it. I think an f1 game using physx is the next logical step. Because it would be awesome frankly. It is nothing to do with how many PCs can utilise it that will determine it’s implementation really, it is more to do with the fact consoles have development priority at the moment and they of course have very limited capabilities compared with the PC. 

this is what I was talking at the Monza video from GT5. Monza there has wrong kerbs, no speed bumps in chicanes, but it is all great, it is most realistic Monza ever seen…well it is not, because those speed bumps are in chicanes from 2002…and then here in Valencia there is PAINT what is missing and istantly tracks are not updated etc…

And for animations of tyre…I don’t understand you guys…they include in this GAME some stuff that was never ever before in any game…so few things might be little wrong….but comeon….do we really need to be such pain in the ass for codemasters about this game???

yes.. when the car turns left the tire should move to the inside and when turning right it should be pulling to the outside..if you keep driving, does the tire start to tear apart…. now that would be cool… and the effect they have now would be better if they reversed it… i can’t believe they missed that one..

Really Dave ?   Well there’s another feature that needs to be in F1-2011 “Schumi’s Revenge”

Looks like a bubble gum set on a rim.

How can you criticise people for talking about the tyre deformation being backwards and in the same breath criticise a track for not having paint on it ?     Let’s not have double-standards here.

Section 1.8.1 of The Sim-Racers Code gives sim racers the divine right to whinge, moan or criticise anything in a racing simuation no matter how small or petty and sim-racers have the right to debate any such pettry criticism until death or the realisation that their is a real world out there.

Didn’t wann quote the rule book but you pushed me into it ;)

erm.. thats for night time mate.   You might have got that mixed up.    Embarrassing :)

yeah stabiz.  I agree with the words.  So if the vid is doing the opposite of that, which it clearly is, then yes the video is wrong.  
A small thing, but unsurprisingly, look how quick we picked up on it.  People are capable or spotting things out of place on a pixel level in the sim-racing world so this tyre deformation never stood a chance :)

Na i doubt it will make it even in F1-2011 “Schumi’s Revenge” :)  as its an issue with the amount of buttons on an xbox controller from what ive read.As its unlikely they will have an increase in buttons next year it could only be incorporated if something else is dropped.

I will love this game! Just build up my GP4 again and when you compare the style of driving, it really looks like an overhauled GP4. And that is just what I want and what I was waiting for since years.

mate, I juts can’t escape feeling that you are a bit sarcastic…:D This comment is so funny I am still laughing…finally someone with sense of humor out here….

btw, does that Sim-Racers Code really exists??? :D

looks good for 2010 and is still in process , so next f1 title 2011 :)  will be better!

Yeah exactly.  This drives very similar in looks to GP4 and that is hailed as one of the top sims.  Obviously, as had been repeated ad nauseam, if the phyiscs can be believable then it’s going to be a blast.

Heh,  no it doesn’t but wouldn’t it be great if there was one ?    Maybe I should write one up.

Those damn consolers and their lack of buttons !  (shakes fist).  

that is great idea…
but it could take lots of time because you need to write it for every possible detail…

I am definitely considering this Grand Prix 5, will have to see how it feels whilst driving of course, but from everything I’ve seen so far it certainly ‘fits’ as GP5.

They had to lock down the car models at some point; it just so happens that they locked down the models with the old style mirrors.  They’ll not be changed.

Ubisoft made a similar woopsie with Silent Hunter 4. The submarines propellors are turning the wrong way! Not a huge thing, but it sure is annoying to be reversing forwards. (Btw, the error – or feature – was repeated in Silent Hunter 5 :) )

tires seem wider than normal!

seriously that is looking great. Hope the tire can be shreaded to pieces to and collision with another car can cause an puncture to, then the race experience could be incredible

I guess I don’t get how people are saying it’s backwards. As much as I hate CodeMasters and want to wish bodily harm on them, by simple physics they’ve not done bad here, and it’s not backwards. A “lightly punctured” tire would likely stay on the rim unless they take corners extremely fast, at which point it would pull it right off. By laws of inertia, the COG of the tire is at the axle. With a light puncture, when turning to the right, inertia will pull the tire to the left as the body rolls that way, which is exactly what the tire in the picture does. The only things you could say they missed were further deformation(driving around at 170mph doesn’t do great things for a dud tire), and the tire should pull back toward the driver as well as pulling the opposite way as the corner.

Credentials: MS in Physics, The Ohio State University.

Have you ever seen ANY onboard recording from a cam mounted in the wheel well, showing a car tyre working mid corner? You even have one of them posted a couple of comments below! Damn, have you seen just an ordinary road car with high profile tyres understeering badly during a bit-too-fast corner entry? The inertia force you mention exists indeed, but it’s neglible compared to the very real and strong force from asphalt pulling the tyre towards the center of the turn – after all, every tyre, punctured or not, tries to keep the car on the track while the rim and the rest of the car tries to roll out, isn’t it?

I’m happy for your “MS in Physics” but I’m not sure the Ohio UV would be happy to read your comment above.

I agree Art-J.

The contact patch of the tire is going to pull the tire to the inside of the corner, while the opposite forces are going to pull the wheel and the body to the outside of the corner, causing the inside tire wall to stretch, no compress like shown in the video. 

But I don’t know, physics can be weird sometimes. :-E

Oh I have plenty of material, hehe :)

Great, you should work at CM with this knowledge. :)

chad and art are right

Yeah I think it also.

My comment was addressed to Blacker who is a MS in Physics.

Have to say, before you start playing the video and quickly look at the screen it almost looks like real life footage. Very well done by Codemasters graphics wise

I think that first statment would be like:
“It is not a full blown hardcore great looking sim if it dont have……” and then about 1000 things instead of dots…
Then second statment:
“If it don’t have any of before mentioned things that it is not a sim, programers who made it are bunch of dump guys and it is ok to insult them, etc….throwing things on them is acceptable.”

At least I got that feeling in community…it is veeeery bad and unrealistic game because punctured tyre moves one milimeter in wrong direction….come on guys…

Ah yes, I forgot about that! I don’t own any console so these things just don’t come into my head. It’s the consoles I should be blaming first before hating on ATI.

I guess the specs of the PS4 and xbox4** (something) should reveal plenty about the future then.

That’s why I edited my post because I was focused entirely on lateral g-forces and didn’t take into account any Pneumatic trail.

A Michael Schumacher in physics ?

yes i know i know… haha nontheless i think the game looks good

Master of Science degree

I agree with blacker. I think CM did it right and the tire doesn’t move into the wrong direction. IMO it looks correct.

Lol, it doesnt. Its not something you “think”. When you put load on a tire the rubber will try to move towards the car. Seriosuly, why are we discussing this?

Looks right to me.  In a right turn, the car is moving to the right but the tire tread is wanting to stay put, as it does, and therefore it appears to be pulling in leftwards towards the car.

Hold something, say a pencil, vertically by the tip and drag the eraser along your desk.  Drag it to the right and the eraser end of the pencil will appear to move to the left relative to your hand as it drags behind.  That’s exactly what I’m seeing in the video.

Theirs is undoubtedly a simplified model that appears to be treating the tread as relatively rigid cylinder, only allowing flex in the sidewall (and only lateral flex at that, without any twisting), but in that context it seems undoubedly to be correct to me.  If it behaved the same, but the tread pulled the opposite way, it would be entirely wrong.

I think a guy on codies forum confirmed it is wrong using vids as an example
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/f1-2010-game-1316/423760-first-vid-tyre-puncture-14.html

All of what you said is true. On a normal tire the tire will go on the inside of the corner its what we call grip … the tire drag the car on the inside of the corner … but it that case we have a puncture so the tire dont have enough grip to stick to the road and its why the tire go in the wrong side … its not the tire dragging the car but the car dragging the tire. go check some video on youtube and you will see that all you said its true on both side

Agreed, how many games even show deformation in tires…!  Now, what I don’t agree with is the way the car handles with the puncture, though this guy may have all assist on!

iRacing — Considered the Best of all Sims does not have tire deformation or tire shredding in their game… yet that’s OK!

Having this pixel level ability achieved through many years of modding is what landed me a job in QA at a game development studio, and now I am the QA Manager 2 years later. It is amazing the level of detail that this community can both produce and look for in a game.

And what is also wrong to waste time on this game.

If there is a puncture on the right front, the car will tilt to the punctured tyre, therefore the left rear tyre will lift from the ground. Causing the right front to take a lot of weight of the car, so it will behave the same way as an inflated tyre until it disintegrates.

“iRacing — Considered the Best of all Sims does not have tire deformation or tire shredding in their game… yet that’s OK!”

Not visually no, but it does simulate the effects, you can wear you tyres down and eventually blow them, and it does severely effect handling.  And iRacing is set to introduce a new tyre model soon.

I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss the Codemasters physics as incorrect. The movement of the tyre is in the wrong direction for a LOADED tyre. Since tyre with no pressure wouldn’t be able to transfer much (if any at all) lateral load to the ground, the inertial effects and its desire just to go straight on may well be the primary effects. That makes the effects in the videos correct.

Someone needs to find a YouTube onboard video of a car with a badly deflated tyre to confirm this.

AeroMechanical:

The pencil analogy is a bad one.  In a car there are 4 points of contact so during a turn the weight is transfered to the outside 2, in this case, when the car does a right turn the weight is transfered to the left 2, so the rubber would be on the ‘outside’ of the right 2, and in a left turn the weight would be transfered to the outside so the rubber would be on the ‘inside’.

Exactly how is this happening?

Does anyone remember LFS? They’ve implemented tire deformation quite successfully.

Blacker is correct, remember that the left tyre is intact and will generate an opposing force to the right tyre. If both tyres were punctured then it would be the opposite again :)

Amazing how this is making such a debate.
My take on this is that most people’s comments here are right, and wrong…

The initial reaction of the tyre, like making minor steering adjustments while accelerating straight, as it is shown in the video is correct. But when load is applied on the wheel, best shown in this example when making a left turn, then yes the effect should be the opposite, as the tyre should move across the rim towards the inside. So it’s complicated. You can’t say that the effect in the game is wrong and the tyre should always be on this or that side, but you can’t say that they made it right either. The tyre should go both ways, depanding on load, the tyre acts and reacts.

So should CM tweak this effect? If they can then yes. The tyre should wobble across the rim, maybe in some cases wanting to detach itself from it, the wheel should lock completely when braking, causing massive flat spots, and then after too much beating starting to disintegrate…

Is this possible for CM to do? I have no idea, but in my opinion, although I’d like to see this effect more advanced, it’s a rather good thing to have. I’ve never seen a flat tyre in a sim like this before. Or would some people rather have no tyre deformation at all and only having some tiny HUD icon as visual indication for a puncture?

“My take on this is that most people’s comments here are right, and wrong…  “ 
 
Genuis.  You covered all your bases there :)  
I think that’s clever…. and not clever.

” the wheel should lock completely when braking”

This is true.  The deflated tyre should be locking up but only providing the driver is going quick enough and the driver is putting a lot of brake pressure on.   If he`s slowing as a result of the puncture then he won’t need to brake so hard, if at all, for the corners.
But definatel that tyre should be very prone to lockups in the right circumstances.

:) Lots of Schumis of Physics here. If Blacker were to be correct, and for this video to be correct, the tire would have to be hanging in the air, with no contact to the ground, and the loose rubber freely moving on the rim in accordance to the G-forces applied by the OTHER tire. That way it would be correct yes, but its not is it, the flapping rubber is touching the ground. And then it is wrong.

Does anyone here actually think that if you puncture your right front tire on your streetcar, and go into a left corner that the flapping rubber will move AWAY from the rim, all the time the weight of the car is leaning on the rubber?!?

It must be the massive german gangbang in the background that confuses our minds, atleast mine :)  

Blacker, you are doing a disservice to the Big Ten, but maybe that’s how it works at Ohio State!  =-O   My engineering degree from THE Penn State University says the video is wrong!  The tire is the only object that is touching the ground.  When you turn the wheel to the left, the ground should be applying a force on the front tires towards the direction of the turn while the rest of the car (including the wheel the tire is mounted to) will want to continue to the right. The tires making contact with the ground are the only place where force acts in the direction of the turn.  Left turn, force to the left at the tire contact patch. 

Therefore, on a left turn, the tires will deform to the left.  On a right turn, the tires will deform to the right. Video is doing the opposite.

Blacker, I didn’t mean to be serious about the Ohio State comment but it came out that way.  I was giving you a friendly jab because your football team is better than ours.  All in good fun. 8-)

Can’t believe this has 80+ comments :)  
 
But yeah, marc1111 is quite correct and it’s just logic really.  The video has the deforming tyre flayling in the wrong direction on the turns,  I’m convinced anyway.
 
I just think it’s great they have his effect because it’s all new and something we’ve not seen in a racing sim before.

“Schumi’s revenge” I love it!!

i hope that just the gfx on the flat tire is working wrong if the actual physics are acting the same way as the gfx does that would be awful.

It`s funny how u people dismiss Blackers theory. Codemasters have had professional input from ex-F1 drivers and all of you hobby drivers think this input is wrong.

I can`t wait for the FINAL PROOF that will end all the discussions :) , if we ever will get that? hu =-X =-X m

I hope we see a flat tire this weekend at Spa to end up this discussion by comparing it with the real thing. ;)

A though popped into my head about this tire today and its this.

We know that console games generally have built in help in their game engine to compensate for lack of controller precision eg FPS auto aim that is still in effect even after you turn off option.

Could this be a type of that so the game is helping the steering of the car around the corner ? and they didnt think about what would happen when tire is in puncture animation.

Looking at different vids both rl and other games it seems this is animated backwards and their is no official word on codemasters forums on the thread about it.
You would imagine if it were the correct physics that they would come out straight away and say why it is moving in the way it does.
I sincerly hope its not an inbuilt game engine help as its not listed on the aids available and wont be able to be turned off if it is.

Sure, Davidson must have given them input on how tires break the laws of physics. All Davidsons fault then.

I think it looks pretty good.  It does look a bit odd though, and perhaps counter intuitive. Kudos for introducing ‘a new thing’.  

Is it just me, or, as we get closer to release, is the in-game footage starting to look more like a computer game and less like TV?   Isn’t the apparent visual quality of the game declining as we approach release?  Didn’t it look much better months ago?   

Clever marketing, if that’s the case.  Cynical, but clever.

It isn’t a new thing.

Its possible that if CM know they are right, they would come on here and say so and why.
If they realise it’s wrong, they may think the best course of action is to not admit it, lay low and either fix it quickly or leavie it like that and maybe fix it in a patch or hope not too many complain about it after release.

Well you say that, but then you fail to enllighten anyone as to why.

It has been done with LFS example, though, I can’t find a better made video showing a flat tire running, all youtube’s have low quality image. Ask someone with LFS experience and he will tell you how a tire deforms in game, better yet, why not try it yourself? 
I’d be curious to see if Codemaster’s go all the way through with tire deformation, not just flat behaviour.

y – LFS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ABK1g3mjg

ok – less kudos.  ;)

Stabiz: You should be more humble, you think you are right but you are wrong because u think the laws of physics is the same under any circumstances, a big mistake from your part imho.

Nice video, but I was looking for one that shows a flat tire. Its fine anyway, this demonstrates what an outdated, if that can be said compared to Codemasters sim can do. :)

Yep, the laws of physics are different on bank holidays and on the anniversary of Frank Zappa’s birth…