As many of you have already passionately-discussed in the earlier F1 2010 news item, Codemasters has released clarification on some of the features their upcoming Formula One 2010 title for the PC, Xbox 306 and Playstation 3 will not contain:
- Laser Scanned Track Data – Considered early on in the project we assessed for our needs and decided against its inclusion in favour of other features. Our track creation pipeline has been further developed and we’re now capable of producing extremely authentic environments, track surfaces included, without the need for this data.
- Safety Car – A common forum request but investigation proved, surprisingly, that this actually offers very little in terms of enjoyable game experience in comparison to other game elements we’ll reveal later. Once you find out what we spent the time on instead we’re sure you’ll agree that this was the right decision!
- Formation Lap – Currently not part of the plan, for the same reasons as safety car. This is not to say we won’t look to add a little of what the formation lap provides!
- A Feeder Series – We’re at full-stretch creating an engaging Formula One experience. Including a feeder series is not part of the deal we have and code support alone would take too much away from the main game to prove worthwhile in 2010.
- Split Screen – Some of you will have noticed this is not present in any recent Codemasters racing titles. Early on we established the huge amount of resources this feature would consume and, after weighing against our need to move the series in an original direction, made the tough decision that F1 2010 would not be the project to return Split Screen. We have included an interesting local multiplayer mode in its place and an extensive online multiplayer mode.
While some of the decisions regarding the formation lap and the safety car can be argued about, the absence of laser-scanned tracks comes as a big surprise. The usage of laser-scanning has not just been confirmed by Codemasters last year, the studio even went ahead and released laser-scanning images from Spa Francorchamps to get gamers excited about this feature.
Keep in mind however that this does not necessary mean F1 2010 will have inaccurate tracks. Even though iRacing has established laser-scanned tracks as sort of a gold standard in the sim racing world, many excellent and accurate tracks made by Simbin, Slightly Mad Studios or modding teams such as Virtua_LM have been made completely without laser-scanned data.
Following their maiden Formula One title that was released only for the Playstation Portable and the Nintendo Wii, Codemasters will be bringing the 2010 Formula One season to the PC, the Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3. F1 2010 has been confirmed to be released in September 2010.
SergeantBoner
March 12th, 2010 at 03:09
and the dumbing down begins…
mike84
March 12th, 2010 at 03:56
no safety car, come on what is this F1C had it.
RKipker
March 12th, 2010 at 03:58
I for one hate the formation lap and never use it or the safety car. Their research is spot on when referring to my gaming. Reasons:
1) Safety formation lap, did twice in F-1 Championship…. hate with a passion. Safety Car is useless time and energy IMHO…. needs to st their and look pretty…LOL
2) Time is valuable, and time doing two caution laps is time wasted IMHO… to slow and boring.
hoboracer
March 12th, 2010 at 03:59
I got to admit, the laser scanning was some good hype.
mike84
March 12th, 2010 at 05:04
if they are supposedly creating sim, what happens when at t1 there is huge pile up during rain. or crash with parts on track. formation lap sure its useless but safety car is part of f1.
fpol
March 12th, 2010 at 05:21
>>>from blog entry:
Even though iRacing has established laser-scanned tracks as sort of a gold standard in the sim racing world, many excellent and accurate tracks made by Simbin, Slightly Mad Studios or modding teams such as Virtua_LM have been made completely without laser-scanned data.
<<<<
Exactly what i said in an earlier post – though I'd say 'near accurate'. Sure it won't be mm precise, but you can enjoy a very solid experience. Perhaps if the audience were racers/trackguys OR you're paying for individual tracks, that precision is expected, however when you get 18 tracks in a full product for $50.00…quality tracks by the above mentioned devs works just fine.
Laser tracks FTW, but you can still have a decent product without them.
Paul Kelly
March 12th, 2010 at 05:38
It says a lot about a game when the developers need to start damage control within days of releasing the first details about the title.
This game will be closer to DIRT or GRID than a proper F1 sim.
N0body Of The Goat
March 12th, 2010 at 07:58
Well Codemasters seem to be doing a good job of putting off sim racers before the product is even out!
I predict that the demo will be delayed after the retail release, in order to tempt fence-sitters to buy before they get chance to try, in order to maximise sales.
I for one will not be chomping at the bit to grab this as soon as it goes gold, due to several let downs in post sales support by Codemasters with the TOCA Race Driver series, which include:-
No dedicated server option
No corner cutting penalties
Grass with traction as good as tarmac
A half-hearted attempt at fixing the “4000 upgrade points cheat” which [b]did not fix installs that already had the cheat installed[/b]
The choice of arcade physics where corners almost never needed braking, just a quick release of the throttle, or horrible “ice skating” skitish sim mode
Hara_Kiri
March 12th, 2010 at 08:26
It’s just GRID with F1 skins.
Nothing to see. Except brown and blur.
zand
March 12th, 2010 at 09:14
My hopes for a decent F1 game in the near future:
rFactor2 + FSONE or
rFactor2 + CTDP or
rFactor2 + MMG
zudthespud
March 12th, 2010 at 10:15
this
Drmaldition
March 12th, 2010 at 11:16
Well well well, I will not buy it. Can’t wait for rFactor 2 though
Maddy
March 12th, 2010 at 11:18
No laserscanned tracks?
And there goes my interest – puff!!!
Zenitchik
March 12th, 2010 at 12:02
LOL,
well, atleast they are definitely heading in the right direction, more blur, more brown colours, calling their game dirt, only 4 letter titles… sounds like a trend to me
Anyways, who cares about laser scaned tracks, when people don’t even have time for a formation lap.. maybe tire temps wont even play a role in this game, because it is not fun. lol
IonAphis
March 12th, 2010 at 12:56
To me when they mean they will not include formation lap or safety car but will include some aspects of it, doesn’t exactly mean when there’s a pile up, nothing will occur. To me the safety car will come out, but instead it will show you a replay of the crash or something, and it will last seconds, showing you the cars strolling around, letting you retake control of your vehicle as the safety car exits the track. For me formation lap will be somewhat what you see in the SBK series, which basically shows you the race line up, weight distributions and championship points of each of the drivers in a transparent windows while in the background you can see the cars warming up. A bit like what we experience already on formation laps when we watch F1… To me these decisions are perfect… I work during the day and go to college at night, the only time I have to play are weekends (when my girlfriend doesn’t make any plans) and maybe an hour every night when I come home. Grid and Dirt are just too arcady, and rFactor and GTR are too complicated to even make a “quick race” viable, so CodeM F1 2010 seems like a perfect fit for me. No boring stuff, but hopefully will still keep the realism of the gameplay and physics. Shame about the laser scanning though.
ChadSmith2
March 12th, 2010 at 13:23
For all you guys looking for an F1 sim, iRacing should have the Williams F1 out this summer. :)
I know it is only 1 car and iRacing doesn’t have many/if any F1 tracks, but it should be good.
jimmyc
March 12th, 2010 at 13:50
” No laserscanned tracks?
And there goes my interest – puff!!! ”
+1
Bloody typical that codemasters dangle the laser scanned tracks bullshit under our noses last year & early into this one , just to deliver this bull shit news…no safety car either ? are codemasters going to develop a f1 sim or just their verion of what they think passes as a f1 sim ???????
if they can’t even add a safety car then whats the hope they can actually manage
more complex features such as a realistic AI ?
total bullshit codemasters………
magic8
March 12th, 2010 at 15:19
**Once you find out what we spent the time on instead we’re sure you’ll agree that this was the right decision!**
I’m sure, I’ll not agree with that decision once the game’s out.
But comon… it’s codemasters, have look at they’re racing games the developed. So we’ll have a F1 Racing game that’ll be far far away from a sim game.
They’ve even not included safety car and formation Lap….now there you go… XD
I think the only feature, that’s going to be mindblasting -> car damage.
I’m looking forward to rFactor 2 and the modding crews.
greez
pleb
March 12th, 2010 at 15:43
I wouldn’t write off CM F1 2010 just yet.
They could have a decent solution for the formation lap/safty car absense. I’ll wait n see what solutions they’ve come up with and wether its nonsense or not.
GP4 never had a safty cars and laser scanned tracks, and rfactor f1 circuits are not laser scanned and the AI is piss porr, yet they’re still regarded as some of the best sims to date. so we need to keep some perspective here.
IonAphis
March 12th, 2010 at 16:09
+1
Everyone expects SIM these days to be completely accurate… up to the ball-itching jumpsuit and the dipper F1 drivers wear just in case… Next they’re gonna want to have SIMs that smack upside your head when you crash your car
hoboracer
March 12th, 2010 at 16:24
I’m not sure if I read that right, but Toca 3 does have all those server options.
I’m not that upset about the laser tracks considering I don’t have any racing games that have them now, still would have been nice. If you look at the Spa scans, the point clouds in the foreground look awfully far apart. Not sure how detailed that scan really is. iRacings scans looked much better.
F1Racer
March 12th, 2010 at 17:24
These whinges and moans are so typical of this community. Always gotta find something to bitch about. Never satisfied with anything and so hard to please despite how little is on offer to us from the gaming industry.
If CM never mentioned laser-scanned tracks in the first place would you feel better or are you just pissed that they dangled that carrot then took it away ?
Laser scanned tracks are not the be all and end all of a racing sim. Perhaps some people want them so they can bitch to the iRacing crowd. If CM did include them, then they’d be too brown or too blurry.
What do you NEED LS tracks for anyway ? So your car will go over bumps in the track at the same time as the real car ? Or is layout the bigger issue ?
It seems very odd to me that there are people who want the most realism possible in their F1 sim experience by demanding that LST’s are the only answer, yet in the same breath find a formation lap or sitting behind a safety car boring.
Well the real drivers have to do formation laps and the real drivers have to sit for lap after lap behind safety cars. So where is the consistency ? Either you want the full on experience or you don’t. A proper F1 sim should have a formation lap and safety car moments that you CAN’T turn off.
While admittedly LST’s would be very nice to have, it just makes me laugh when I see people who slag off CM or say they’re not buying it (but no doubt they’ll download it) because the tracks aren’t laser scanned. So throw away all your other sims then. What makes this one so special ? Again, is it because CM changed their mind ?
Enough of this bitching about the tracks already and get over yourselves. As a community I suppose there are points for consistency when it comes to moaning about new and upcoming stuff. Mostly at the realisation that the product isn’t custom made for sim-racers only. I think we all knew that from the start.
We’re never going to see a dedicated stand-alone licensed F1 sim for a long long time. Consoles are where the money is because that’s where the mass audience is.
So racing games like Shift and F1-2010 will primarily be geared for them. Then lazily ported to PC then maybe an extra sim option if we’re lucky – which will be the normal game minus the driver aids as usual.
I couldn’t give a toss if the tracks are laser-scanned or not. As long as they have an accurate enough layout and look the part. Anyway I thought physics were the main deal breaker here. So far we have seen a couple of screenshots and all the assumptions got thrown in together and smashed about.
If F1-2010 looks anywhere near GRID or Shift it will still be the best looking F1 out there. But again, looks ain’t the thing right ? It’s physics. Hmmmm. It seems not. We want it all, the gfx, the sound, the physics, the laser tracks, dynamic weather, animated pit stops, accurate tyre wear… everything.. erm.. but you can skip the formation lap thats boring. Brilliant.
Paul Kelly
March 12th, 2010 at 18:25
Ding-ding! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
BenUK
March 12th, 2010 at 19:29
2001was when GP4 came out. Its nearly 10 years ago, things have moved on, and expectations have moved on. I think the lack of laser scanned tracks is a foolish omission. They have pretty much admitted that track accuracy isn’t really important to them. Yes, I want accurate bumps, yes I want an accurate layout, I CANNOT STAND inaccurate tracks. I have had to put up with the SimBin tripe for the last few years, and quite a few of their track layouts stink (Macau, Brands Hatch, Porto), plus other smaller errors in other tracks like massive bumps that aren’t there and so on.
I think physics and track layouts go hand in hand. Whats the point of a laser scanned track with accurate bumps, if the car is not going to behave accurately over those bumps. Hey, maybe it will be like in TOCA Race Driver 2 when the cars took off over small crests, that would be brilliant, and really realistic.
F1Racer
March 12th, 2010 at 20:07
As did ISI with rFactor, Simbin with GTR2, Papyrus with GPL. Yet these are hailed as some of the best of what we have right now.
rFactor 2 wont be bringing laser tracks either nor will 99.9% of the modded tracks be, but it seems we are just fine with that. How come ?
Unfortunately CM isnt coding F1-2010 to what you want. You really have no idea as to how accurate the tracks in F1-2010 are going to be in terms of layout.
When I refer to bumps I dont mean big bumps that shouldn’t be there, I mean things like the new turn 6 in Bahrain which if you’ve seen the practice sessions you’ll know what I’m talking about.
How many people are anal enough to freak out if we get the 2010 Bahrain layout and the turn 6 bumps are not there to bottom out our car ?
Well see this is the thing, you haven’t really had to put up with it at all. You can choose not to play it. Its only a game at the end of the day no matter how many setup options or how good its physics are.
If you have laser-accurate bumps, all you get is a visual of the car shaking around in the same places along with some FFB on your wheel and some up the arse if you have a Buttkicker. If that bump or another bump isn’t there but there’s one 2 metres down the road instead, how upset are people really going to be ?
Has it really got to that stage where these are the demands ?
Cos then we might as well start asking for accurate F1 race wheels, wear driver suits, gloves and helmet while we race in our bedroom.
Depends how geeky you feel you need to get.
CM should make realistic track bumps a hidden option that can only be unlocked when you’ve run 2 full season with forced formation laps and safety car incidents enabled :)
stabiz
March 12th, 2010 at 20:24
Moaning about moaning …
BenUK
March 12th, 2010 at 20:31
I don’t tend to race on modded tracks, as they tend not to be very accurate (apart from Virtua LM tracks etc)
The GTR2 tracks are fine, some small issues, but nothing really worth a mention. The tracks SimBin made post Blimey-SimBin split, were for the most part, atrocious.
I think tracks need to be as accurate as you can make them. If its “common knowledge” that certain bumps are in certain places, then why not model them if the knowledge is there? I think its common knowledge that there are a series of small bumps in the braking zone for Lodge Corner at Oulton Park – so model them, I think its common knowledge that the entry to Bruxelles has a significant bump on the entry at Spa – so model it.
I don’t expect every last pebble to be modelled, but I do expect medium to large sized bumps that affect the car to be modelled accurately, yes.
On the contrary, I think we have little choice for racing sims. If you can point me to a modern sim, which is still supported, and can enjoy large multiplayer races on busy servers, then please do.
truth
March 12th, 2010 at 20:42
My God, does anyone read what this guy writes? You are boring and keeps repeating yourself over and over. Just in case no one has ever told you that. Those are other people opinions, it´s you who needs to get over yourself.
jonneymendoza
March 12th, 2010 at 20:51
LOL this game is a joke. One of teh reasons why i love rfactor is because of the safety car and the reasons stated above.
i know this game will bomb. what a waste of fucking time ever since i first read codemasters got teh f1 licence. give the licence to simbin!
idiots
F1Racer
March 12th, 2010 at 20:51
Yeah its ironic isn’t it :) But it’s always the way.
F1Racer
March 12th, 2010 at 20:54
You just did.
Really ? I’m not the one acting like some spoilt brat who has to have everything for them in exactly the way they want it or they throw their toys out of the pram and whinge like babies over petty crap.
Other peoples opinions are no more or less valid than mine so deal with it.
I`ll repeat as often as the complaints repeat or as often as I want to.
F1Racer
March 12th, 2010 at 21:03
I agree, tracks should be as accurate as you can make them. Apart from that they won’t be laser scanned, we have no evidence that CM aren’t trying to do that. You don’t need lasers for accuracy though. Admittedly they would be even more accurate with laser scanning and it would be an added bonus if they were, but it depends how accurate you really need them in order to have fun racing.
Also I think your perception of common knowledge is a little off. I`ll bet there are loads of sim-racers who don’t know of the bumps you mentioned.
Fine. But so far there is no evidence to say that the CM tracks in F1-2010 won’t meet that requirement. But people are assuming the worst because there’s no lasers involved. Maybe the whingers will be right, but its kinda like they’ve judged before its gone to trial.
BenUK
March 12th, 2010 at 21:26
I understand what you are saying, but judging from Codies past forays into real track modelling doesn’t fill me with confidence. Having said that, their version of Brands Hatch wasn’t too bad in TRD3 despite somehow managing to model the pre-1999 Graham Hill Bend, abd the post 2003 “flat” Dingle Dell -> Sheen Curve in the same track model which made zero sense… however their Donington and Spa was terrible, the bumps (that should be jumps really) at Spa were comical.
F1Racer
March 12th, 2010 at 21:37
Well its true that Codies past efforts haven’t been up to the kind of quality we would look for in a licensed F1 sim and that probably doesn’t inspire too much confidence in some people.
But personally I’m going to reserve judgment on F1-2010 until Ive actually tried it. Then if its bad, I can jump in and join the moaners and the ‘I told you so’ group :)
I’m still looking forward to it despite the lack of the above-mentioned features.
IonAphis
March 12th, 2010 at 22:24
someone needs to get laid… urgently…
F1Racer
March 12th, 2010 at 22:31
I hope you’re not volunteering. :)
If you’re on that side of the street then stay there. brrrrrrr.
FYI, all sim racers need to get laid. What world do you live in ? LOL
scca1981
March 12th, 2010 at 23:41
Laser scanned tracks isn’t that big of a deal. Codies actually makes pretty good tracks so i’m sure they will be no let down. Simbin’s made it this far without laser scanned tracks.
Safety car i’m gonna have to say isn’t a big deal either because it almost NEVER comes out in rfactor/GTR2/Race. So no real loss there.
The other stuff like a Feeder series and split screen doesn’t really apply to me so I could care less. As far as formation lap I usually do standing start so again no big deal.
fpol
March 13th, 2010 at 03:35
I think it’s unfair to say laser scanned tracks aren’t that big of a deal – they are when done correctly, however – it’s also unfair to say you can’t turn out a sim with *otherwise created* tracks that, aren’t also quite good.
The average simmer will likely never turn a lap on track, if it’s 95% there, adn the rest of the sim is up to snuf (which appears in doubt with this product), the immersion can fill the gap.
And FWIW, you *can* learn a track with a ‘decent’ non scanned copy – in your first session you’ll fill in any gaps with the odd bump or two…that a well produced NON laser scanned track doesn’t capture.
The argument here shouldn’t be about laser tracks, or even formation laps – but center around whether the driving model will be a simulation, or ’sim-lite’/gamey.
LensFlare
March 13th, 2010 at 05:52
Thanks for existing, F1Racer.
At least you allow me to know that there are still some people with brains in this community.
I had stopped commenting here and there because they have the skill to make one feel alone when he has a different view on things than theirs.
Wil
March 13th, 2010 at 07:40
The hardcore nazi gays strikes again… They wont stop until they get to destroy this genre…
I could not agree more with F1Racer. I remember some time ago how such kind of people got to fuck the combat flight simulation genre until it is almost dead.
- Developers did some cool graphics at time – no it is not good enough…
- They implemented almost classifield flight dynamics and avionics data at time – oh no it is not realistic enough…
- They had dynamic campaign at that time – oh it is not good enough and full of bugs…
- So on…
No company no hardware where good enough to replicate the “realistic combat expeience” no matter how many resources them employed. So after a couple of years the so called study sims are dead. Yes, back in time simulations where the most popular Pc gaming genre, but the growing hardcore sim crowd got it: they turned the developing of this almost impossible with its complains and demands.
I hope not to see it hapen again…
Firestarter
March 13th, 2010 at 08:20
Codemasters have made the best rally sim ever….tada…Dirt 2. I can feel the car being thrown around by every bump and dump, i can feel it, yeah i can feel it. Codemasters gets dirty and yeah i can feel it.
stabiz
March 13th, 2010 at 09:52
That is beyond doubt the craziest thing i have read here at VirtualR.
Sensekhmet
March 13th, 2010 at 09:55
I’ll buy it. I finally got a job and with commute all I have are 4-5 hours of free time a day, not counting mundane things like cleaning, shopping, all kinds of paperwork, etc. Besides, after I’ll gather 5000-6000 Euro I making my racing license and going racing for real. Yeah, it will be just second league 10-lap events in a 60hp car but still: 200km on the track (races+ practice sessions, etc.) beats everything a snobbish sim can deliver.
F1Racer
March 13th, 2010 at 10:22
Heh, I must admit, I’ve never been thanked for existing before. You’re welcome btw, I’ll try to continue to do that. :)
Thanks for the support guys.
@Sensekhmet: Good luck with your racing license man. Sounds like a great opportunity.
Paul Kelly
March 13th, 2010 at 21:41
I take it you’ve never played Richard Burns Rally. That’s too bad.
Sensekhmet
March 14th, 2010 at 10:40
Exactly.
michael
March 17th, 2010 at 09:18
Well, given your “F1Racer” moniker it’s clear you just want this game to be good leaving objectivity and common sense in your over eager wake.
But stuff like “we don’t know yet…we haven’t seen it” is just wishful thinking. You’re deluding yourself and setting yourself up to be disappointed when (or if) the game is released later this year.
The simple fact is, codemasters couldn’t write a good game if their lives depended on it. And certainly are completely and utterly useless when it comes to supporting the buggy junk they do release.
The last thing they are ever going to write is a good racing game or sim.
F1 2010 will be, just as the guy said above, like Dirt 2 and Grid. Don’t delude yourself that it won’t. It certainly won’t have sim physics. It uses the same engine as these other games and they aren’t about to rewrite it to get a game out this year. The lack of sim physics was a given long before anyone wrote into this discussion.
However, you should perhaps realise that the audience you believe CM aim at has literally thousands and thousands more whinges and moans – go and read their forums to see.
But clearly Codemasters did claim laser scanned tracks.
So far it’s clear all they have is a crappy screenshot from the aborted attempt to write the game for 2009 with a “Insert 2010 cars here” – FFS, think about what that says about the state of the development.
Vikerness
March 17th, 2010 at 17:12
I think these Codemasters guys arent even fans of F1 or the pc sim genre. If they were, it means that they should have been playing rFactor F1 mods for a long time now, i mean really how can you call yourself an F1 simracer and not play cdtp’s brilliant f1 mods? or mmg’s? or fsone’s ? If they were fans, they wouldnt release yet another game so drastically different and arcadeish compared to rFactor. So i’ll have to assume that they dont actually care about previous sims as they will rely exclusively on graphics and no one can beat them when it comes to that.