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Great news!! 8-) the Lamborghini R-GT, one of most beautiful and exotic race cars ever, with an incredible sound.

Let’s hope the tyre model will get better….

Great mod but I can’t wait for rF2. :)

Scott Juliano (ISI staff) wrote yesterday on rF2 forum:

“Someone above mentioned that we haven’t said much about physics updates, etc. That’s not really my area to be able to explain it properly; but, what I can honestly tell you is that I can no longer play rF1 after driving rF2 with the new tire model, new FFB, etc. I just can’t do it. rF2 feels THAT good….”

It won’t unfortunately.  :(

Enduracers do not believe it needs changing as they have real driver feedback so therefore it must be totally correct.   People, myself included, who are criticising the GT tyre physics, only so that it may help improve the mod even further, are only seen as an annoyance.

It won’t unfortunately.  :(
 
Enduracers do not believe it needs changing as they have real driver feedback so therefore it must be totally correct.   People, myself included, who are criticising the GT tyre physics, only so that it may help improve the mod even further, are only seen as an annoyance.

The Lambo looks great though as do all the cars in this mod.

Good. The Endurance Series mod was lacking without the Murcielago.

Hopefully they’ll also have some Lola’s in SP2 as well.

Oh God, enough of the whining!

Oh no… we could really count on you to come whine like an irate teenager whenever this mod is brough up couldn’t we F1racer?

He’s absolutely correct though.  Sim racers completely underestimate how much grip the real cars have.  As a real driver myself, I can confirm everything he says.  A god damn GT1 Corvette in real life does NOT lose all rear grip and spin out in a fucking 30mph corner.  It just doesn’t happen.. but it sure does in this mod.

@Wish Bone:   I am not whining or irate (nor a teenager for that matter).  I wrote that very calmly as I know it is true based on the history of this mod so far.  
In fact apart from this physics flaw in the mod which they refuse to correct, I think the effort gone into this mod is commendable and if the GT cars drove in a more believable manner, this would in no doubt be one of the better mods we have for rFactor.
It’s just a shame it is let down.   

Besides if this mod wasn’t any good or worth anything then I wouldn’t be ‘whining’ in the first place.  I happen to want to see this mod progess because I appreciate the work people do for free for our community.
Sometimes you gotta take the bad with the good instead of pre-judging people.

@Wish Bone:   It seems you are whining and irate at me.   Oh the irony.

I, however, am not whining or irate (nor a teenager for that matter).  I wrote that post, as I do this one, very calmly as I know it is true based on the history of this mod so far.    
In fact apart from this physics flaw in the mod which they refuse to correct, I think the effort gone into this mod is commendable and if the GT cars drove in a more believable manner, this would in no doubt be one of the better mods we have for rFactor.  
It’s just a shame it is let down.     
 
Besides if this mod wasn’t any good or worth anything then I wouldn’t be ‘whining’ in the first place.  I happen to want to see this mod progess because I appreciate the work people do for free for our community.  
Sometimes you gotta take the bad with the good instead of pre-judging people.

The Lambo looks gr8 8-) .

i guess it is Simbin models VS Enduracers battle MOD

it’s true, too bad Enduracers ignore our comments
because they have the best mod rfactor with these car models. they are bent on making us lose the Grip 30 KPH. on exit corners the pilots are turning full throttle and the car is in without lose the grip, but this mod can barely touch the accelerator as the car goes into spin

too bad Enduracers ignore our comments 
because they have the best mod rfactor with these car models. they are bent on making us lose the Grip 30 KPH. on exit corners the pilots are turning full throttle and the car is in without lose the grip, but this mod can barely touch the accelerator as the car goes into spin

How do you lose grip at 30 kph with this mod? I never experienced that. Are you driving with Tractioncontrol turned of? If so, it’s no wonder the car spins, all the real life GT and LMP cars do have TC and even with TC-low you CAN NOT SPIN the car in this mod, no matter if your on full throttle or off-throttle. If it still spins then, something must be wrong with the pedal-setup or the pedals themselves.

I honestly find it very difficult to spin the GT cars out, with or without TC. The recent patch certainly improved the handling of the GT cars from what i had experienced previously, so i believe they have taken onboard a lot things simracers have been saying. I haven’t driven a real-life GT car, but driving Enduracer’s ones at home is certainly enjoyable and i look forward to the completion of a full Le Mans grid!

Just yesterday i did a race at Monza using FIA GT08 category. Epic race, really exciting (no spins, no problems at all). I felt the lack of some GT1 cars like Lambo and Maserati MC12..but, after race i readed this news, fantastic!! :) Can’t wait to drive this beauty, this mod becomes more and more beautiful. Keep up the good work guys!!

@Marcel:  “even with TC-low you CAN NOT SPIN the car in this mod, no matter if your on full throttle or off-throttle.”

Would you like me to disprove that to you with a video ?   TC is not the issue.  TC is traction control which does its job, to an extent, in this mod.  The issue here is the tyre slip angles which are way off.
Besides even if you take TC off, there is still no way a GT car would or should lose grip so easily mid corner.

I find it absurd that people are saying they find it difficult to spin the GT cars when clearly it is so easy to do.  I can only assume they are driving around very slowly or have some amazing set-up on the car.
I certainly isn’t down to amazing driving skills.  Plus I do realise sim racers like to chime in and say they can do things that others seemingly can’t but we never see any proof.

I could make video after video of this flaw occurring with or without TC.  So it does exist regardless of others who say the contrary.   
The sad problem is that Enuracers would rather listen to these people who allegedly claim they have no problem and assume all is ok.   This is why nothing gets fixed.   It seems those that pick out a flaw must be wrong.
I assume that is what Marcel and Ross are saying.  That the issue doesn’t exist and all those who report it must be doing something wrong.

If they don’t fix it, then they don’t.  It’s not the end of the world but it will be a shame.   
It is clear a lot of attention and work has gone into this mod and it would be very disappointing for it to be left in this state.  If the issue didn’t exist you wouldn’t have multiple people reporting the same thing.   We can’t all be doing the same thing wrong and I’m not in the habit of ‘whining’ about mods unless they are worth whining about.
I only ask Team Enduracers to consider the possibility that there is a physics issue with the GT cars and look into it.  If they find nothing wrong in their eyes then there is nothing more to be done.  

@Marcel:  “even with TC-low you CAN NOT SPIN the car in this mod, no matter if your on full throttle or off-throttle.”  
 
Would you like me to disprove that to you with a video ?   TC is not the issue.  TC is traction control which does its job, to an extent, in this mod.  The issue here is the tyre slip angles which are way off.  
Besides even if you take TC off, there is still no way a GT car would or should lose grip so easily mid corner.  
 
I find it absurd that people are saying they find it difficult to spin the GT cars when clearly it is so easy to do.  I can only assume they are driving around very slowly or have some amazing set-up on the car.  
It certainly isn’t down to amazing driving skills.  Plus I do realise sim-racers like to chime in and say they can do things that others seemingly can’t but we never see any proof.  I’m not saying it’s a little bit of elitism but if you can manage it then please share with us how you do.  Amazing skills?  Set-ups ? 
 
For every video of a ‘good’ lap in these GT cars, I could make 10 videos showing this flaw occurring with or without TC.  So it does exist regardless of others who say the contrary.     
The sad problem is that Enuracers would rather listen to these people who allegedly claim they have no problem and assume all is ok.   This is why nothing gets fixed.   It seems those that pick out a flaw must be wrong.  
I assume that is what Marcel and Ross are saying.  That the issue doesn’t exist and all those who report it must be doing something wrong.  
 
If they don’t fix it, then they don’t.  It’s not the end of the world but it will be a shame.     
It is clear a lot of attention and work has gone into this mod and it would be very disappointing for it to be left in this state.  If the issue didn’t exist you wouldn’t have multiple people reporting the same thing.   We can’t all be doing the same thing wrong and I’m not in the habit of ‘whining’ about mods unless they are worth whining about.  
I only ask Team Enduracers to consider the possibility that there is a physics issue with the GT cars and look into it.  If they find nothing wrong in their eyes then there is nothing more to be done.

Great to hear, nice addition to the ES garage.
By the way i thought the physics are fine.

Can do countless laps without ever spinning the rearside.
But you need to drive these cars like they are supposed to drive.
Make sure you have some laps to warm the tires.
Check your RPM before downshifting.
Be gentle with hte rightfoot before coming out of the corner.
Stay on top of your tire temps.
Just use the very soft tires for 8-15 laps.
Otherwise use the soft ones, and stay on track for 45 minutes.

But the people who don’t like this mod have just bad luck.
Endurance Series has their own opinion about handling.
Workwith it ot get another mod.

I certainly don’t assume anyone who picks a flaw out in this mod is wrong. But then again, someone who picks out a good point in the mod isn’t necessarily wrong either! It’s obviously just down to personal preference.

Plainly a lot of people do find the same fault, but not everyone. I for one didn’t enjoy driving the GT cars in the original mod as i felt they were too easy to spin out, but i feel the handling had improved greatly in the newly-released patch. This could be because i’ve increased my steering wheel rotation to 600 degrees instead of 280. I also normally set ‘power’ on the diff to minimum value, increase brake bias to the front, blip the throttle on downchanges and trail-brake on corner entry. It seems to work well for me, but maybe not for everyone. I just wanted to ofer my opinion on how well i thought the mod had progressed.

here i use 540° and 18°steering lock for all GT cars.

i made a mod to their physics which fixes those spins its a CLUTHC MOD for upgrades its somewhere on f1classic

It is right that you have to set up your wheel the right way. Driving a GT car with about 220° steering rotation is not just unrealistic, it’s too agressive aswell. You definately need a minimum of about 400° to get a acceptable handling and in the setup a steering lock of at least 12-13°. That ads precision and enables to drive a clean line aswell. Some cars are very tailhappy under braking, that’s right but that is mostly down to brake-ratio settings.

I think it’s neither a good setup or extraordinary driving skills, because I’m neither the best simracer nor do I have excellent setups. I just can tell you, that I had grip-problems for example with my 997 GT3-RSR at Bathurst when raced with my G25 at 219° steering-rotation even with highest wing-settings, whilst with 450° now, I can race the car easily with frontwing to 1 and rear wing to 7 even in Bathurst… having that advantage you’re easily 2 seconds a lap quicker and don’t even slightly move around even in the slowest corners of the circuit (in fact the car is understeering more now than oversteering because of the precision under braking)

Riches, thanks for your input but I do find it a little condescending.

We need to drive them like they are supposed to drive ?     Well obviously.   I mean I don’t think any of us are sim newbies here.   I drive hard and tricky mods and manage to get something out of them.

Also telling us that its our bad luck and that if we don’t like it we should just forget it, give up and use another mod….  well  I dunno what to say. 

Just because some people can lap these cars does not mean it is not flawed.  I firmly believe it is.  No other GT car from any other sim or mod behaves like this and I seriously doubt the others have missed something and Enduracers are the only ones to have it correct.

I just wanted to test something….  

The physics are fine and I get no problems with the GT cars !  

(Now I’ve said that, hoping now to get a ‘like’ from DeDios :) )

lol and why? for me there’s no problems at all, that’s the truth. I’m sorry if you have problems but for me remains YOUR opinion if tyre physics is bugged. This is not the overall opinion. For me is not, and this is the same for many other guys.
In this mod there are several guys who are working on physics, several betatesters and some real drivers involved in this project. I trust in their work.  Are u able to do a better job? feel free to do a new mod.

So, if you want to tease me do it, no problem. But i’m sad to see this, probably because you’ve finished your arguments.

“For every video of a ‘good’ lap in these GT cars, I could make 10 videos showing this flaw occurring with or without TC.  So it does exist regardless of others who say the contrary.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_z9ggELeE

I could say the same vice-versa. I mean, yeah I read a lot of times that people are complaining about the spinning out problem, but at the same time it’s a simple fact that the Enduracence Series Mod is one of the, if not THE most popular mod for 12h up to 24h endurance events (just had a 20h and a 24h event with it). If it was really completely undrivable, it would make no sense at all to use it for said events. From my experience, I can’t tell if it’s realistic (I’m not talking about the latest version where the GT cars seem to have a bit more grip because I didn’t drive it yet, most leagues/endurance events are still using the original SP1 version), but I can tell you that I can do a lot more laps which are equally fast and – which is the point for endurance racing – constant that with a dozen of other popular mods.

I remember my first few laps with this mod when I was still used to GTR2. I was like “WTF?! Am I too stupid to drive?” Spinning out was a problem, true. But not that long, especially if you keep training on the same track for a couple of hundred laps. Like I said I have absolutely no idea how it should be to be realistic, but what I think is absolutely incorrect is the claim that it’s too hard to drive through slow corners at all, because that’s how it mostly sounds from people with those problems.

I had so many intense battles in league races and especially in slow corners to express that it’s not the case. Still talking about the SP1 pre-patch, I drive the Corvette with deactivated TC/ABS/etc only since I struggle a lot more with understeering than with a loose tail. Seeing the real GT1 cars live I got the impression that they have way more grip in fast corners like in this mod, but when accelerating out of a hairpin in 1st gear you’ll see some nice wheelspin pretty frequently in reality. Even the weaker GT3 cars do that. And since I can do hundreds of pretty close laps even with soon-to-be-dead rear tyres I simply can’t share the opinion that it’s a mayor flaw rendering the mod to be undrivable.

Using 400° as well with ~12-13 steering lock for the GT cars as well.

@Robert:  I might not agree with all of your post but I respect the fact that its civilised and well thought out.

I’ve been reading more about this issue on other forums and it does seem that some of the issue is down to the mod not being too friendly with paddle shifting.   Could this be the possible issue ?
Maybe the mod is just happier with manual H-shifting and a 3 pedal setup.
When I get some time, I will try your wheel settings (which I think mine is close to already), a few setup changes and see if anything improves.  Im not holding out much hope though but hey, who knows, I might make a breakthrough.
So if this mod is so correct, does it mean that if you ‘forget’ to blip downshift in a real FIA GT car, that its going to spin even in the middle of slow corner ?   Even with those fat slicks on ?
I personaly don’t buy that but I would expect that behaviour if I did multiple downshifts in quick succession like in F1.

If you have possibility, try to use 3 pedals and sequential shifter (not H modality).

Personally i use 400°-15°steering lock for LMP cars, 540° -18° steering lock for GTs.

I completely agree with you… and so many people gave me haste about calling them jerks, when so many agree with your statement that we, the users, are seen as an annoyance and given no respect at all.

I will say, as someone who has driven an M3 challenge car… The tyre physics are awful compared to the real thing. The front bumpers yankoff way, way too easily, and the LMP division cars should have TCS built into the diffs, you shouldn’t have to add it in game. Just my opinion, cue me getting hammered for speaking the truth about these guys :)

Are you using 540′ on the wheel because you like to drive with your crossing your arms or is it solely to make the steering less sensitive on turns ?    I like to keep both hands on the wheel at all time (like in F1).  I believe they do that in GTs too don’t they ?

hello,
I’m french and I understand very little English.
So, I’m sorry for not understanding what you mean to me

No, i use 540°-18° steering lock because for me is the most real setting for a GT car. 400°-12/13°steering lock for a GT car is too much fast IMHO.

M3 Challenge? what version is? Do u mean the M3 E92? I do not know the M3 Challenge real car (except the game).

“…when accelerating out of a hairpin in 1st gear you’ll see some nice wheelspin pretty frequently in reality. Even the weaker GT3 cars do that. ”

That’s one thing most people don’t realise.  If you’re in the 1st gear, the tires spin faster than it does in the 2nd or 3rd gear and when you’re coming out of a slow corner in the first gear and not controlling the amount of throttle you’re putting in, what wil happen is that you will lose traction, the car becomes unstable causing it to spin.  

Spinning out is the result of the back tires (since all GT cars are rear wheel drive) suddenly gripping the pavement while the car is still unstable. It doesn’t matter at what speed you’re at and in GT1 car which are powerful beast with a lot of torque.  Making things worse is the fact that the huge rear slick on most GT cars have tremendous grip therefore making spinning out harder to manage.  

It’s the irony of most GT or any race cars is that all the things that help make them faster- huge slick tires, low mass/weight, stiff suspension and powerful brakes are also the things that make them hard to control/manage under distress.

I really hope for Lola Aston Martin LMP1 in all its V12 glory. Also GT2 Vettes or BMWs or Jags (I love the GT-Endurance XKR so much) would be great.

MC12 is gorgeous but I don’t know if it belongs in this mod.

Well, then I hope it feels at least like LFS…

Why not? this is the most beautiful and victorious race car in FIA GT (yes i know the reg problems ecc..).
I hope will be done, but this will be an Enduracers guys decision.

If it would unbalance the whole class because 15 out of 20 drivers are going to use it.
That would give some boring racing.

GT does cross arms. You don’t have to take your hands off the wheel because they are crossed. Just because the wheel is set to 540 doesn’t mean you turn it that far on the track. Watch GT videos. They come close to crossing arms from time to time. It just isn’t realistic to drive a GT car like an F1 car. I don’t run with TC and have never had problems spinning on exit. The only time I have had problems spinning is at the end of the braking zone right at corner turn in. The can be fixed with driving adjustments, like backing up the braking zone a little, easing off the brakes at turn in, blipping, not rushing down shifts (again, it isn’t an F1 car) and then making setup changes like brake bias, diff and engine brake map (or simply keep your foot on the gas little at turn in). These cars lock up the rears easily as the speed drops off and the DF goes away.
 
Turning up the skid/scrub sound helps too.

Yes, that would make it odd, wouldn’t it? But so then, the Saleen is at the limit not jsut a bit quicker than the Aston Martin and the Corvette and even though, at the most big endurance events since the SP1 release there have been almost NO Saleens at all. But I agree, a realistic MC12 would not make much sense as the car in real life was not really legal and that wouldn’t help competitive simracing-grids aswell, if a car has about 50bhp more than all the others of the same category.

The best think would be to have all these amazing cars frmo GTR2, but with Endurance-Series physics… Nobody needs the modern GT1 cars from the World Championship, I would like to get some Vipers, Listers, Ferrari 550 and 575… or even more important: The most competitive category of all four once is since many years the GT2… I would like to have a full and quality GT2 grid with BMWs, Corvettes, Fords and more… don’t need any new prototypes though :D

As BIG MC12 fan, i’m not agree 100%..but everyone have his opinion :D MC12 was the FIA GT queen, and in a mod regarding this serie, is an important car. In FIA GT games you can find it :D
Anyway understand your opinion (i usually discuss A LOT about MC12 and FIA story regarding allowing this car in the race serie). Personally i’d like to see some GT1 more, some GT2s and yes..some LMPs, because in an Endurance Mod LMPs important :-D

As BIG MC12 fan, i’m not agree 100%..but everyone have his opinion :D MC12 was the FIA GT queen, and in a mod regarding this serie, is an important car. In FIA GT games you can find it :D  
Anyway understand your opinion (i usually discuss A LOT about MC12 and FIA story regarding allowing this car in the race serie). Personally i’d like to see some GT1 more, some GT2s and yes..some LMPs, because in an Endurance Mod LMPs are important <img src=”extra/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-laughing.gif” title=”Laughing” border=”0″ alt=”Laughing”/>

As BIG MC12 fan, i’m not agree 100%..but everyone have his opinion :D MC12 was the FIA GT queen, and in a mod regarding this serie, is an important car. In FIA GT games you can find it :D  
Anyway understand your opinion (i usually discuss A LOT about MC12 and FIA story regarding allowing this car in the race serie). Personally i’d like to see some GT1 more, some GT2s and yes..some LMPs, because in an Endurance Mod LMPs important :-D

As BIG MC12 fan, i’m not agree 100%..but everyone have his opinion :D MC12 was the FIA GT queen, and in a mod regarding this serie, is an important car. In FIA GT games you can find it :D    
Anyway understand your opinion (i usually discuss A LOT about MC12 and FIA story regarding allowing this car in the race serie). Personally i’d like to see some GT1 more, some GT2s and yes..some LMPs, because in an Endurance Mod LMPs are important :-D

Agree 100% with the guys without spinning issues. To be honest, if you have issues spinning with a lowly GT, then maybe you should adjust your driving style. If anything i typically find myself with loads of understeer rather oversteer and i don’t use TC nor default setups and i use 540 degrees. I’m on a Crappy USB 3g Modem so no i haven’t downloaded the patch just released. As for driving slow, i can’t do that. Not when i have my AI difficulty set to 116%.

Yes we’re all so impressed.