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seems logical that the cockpit view is not popular at all in GRID. Its build as an Arcade Racer. IMO 90% of all arcade racers use external, or hood view. Building cockpits for an audience that does not care about it, would be expensive and time consuming. No return on investment so to speak. So in the end of the day, all seems as it should be.

Grid 1 was one of the worst arcade racers I’ve played. It thought it was Wipeout ffs, so I lose or gain nothing from this. But as for cockpit view – in today’s age it’s laughable to not have it. When Grid came out, it wasn’t something that pretty much every game had.

If you can’t take the time to add decent cockpits, I can’t take the time with your game. Chances are it was beyond rushed and will be bug infested crap it you are cutting it that close anyways!

It’s one of those things that a game has to have now TBH. It’d be like a modern FPS without using your sights – only one game can do that, and Grid ain’t the Counterstrike of racing.

(note I said modern. Doom / Unreal and the likes are old school for sure)

There needs to be a cockpit view!

Such a completely odd decision. No cockpit view is an instant deal breaker for me. What more is there to say other than if you had blanked out the name of the game and the developer, I’d have still guessed it was Codemasters.

5% is still quite a large audience, 1 in every 20 people. With the number of quality racing games / sims coming out these days, most with cockpit view as an option, I would have thought that Codemasters would be wanting to retain as many of them as possible. It’s sad when commercial decisions dictate what will and will not be in a game. Must be sole crushing to the creatives and programmers who have worked on the game, who no doubt want to build the best game possible.

Well, sounds like their data is based on online races… That is not necessarily representative of the whole. For example, many people I have talked to think the cockpit is cool, but it is slower when it comes to lap times. If they are in a competitive situation online, I suspect a reasonable qty of people switch to the “faster” view. As for the perception that it i slower…my experience is that until you really get a hold of the track/car, cockpit view is a disadvantage. However, I don’t see that I am any slower when I am up to running competitive times. I sometimes will do 5-10 laps in the roof cam so I get a better perspective of a new track. Anyway, I don’t think I am in the market for this either way…

They have clearly done their research, so let’s assume it makes perfect business sense to them. I am personally not interested in arcade racers, so I don’t care if they include a cockpit view or not either. Arguing the other way round, it makes no sense to me for a simulation to include anything else but a cockpit view.

Totally agree with Chris Wright. Sounds like Codemasters is taking the easy/quick/cheap way out. No cockpit view = no buy from me.

60% of players don’t look around at the scenery on tracks/ Maps.

They’re stupid enough to cut something like that next >.>

No cockpitview is a dealbreaker…

Apparently, only five percent of Codemasters gamers can dress themselves…

C’mon guys, are we really surprised by this move by CM? It’s kinda like beating a dead horse by now.

No problem for me. I used cockpit view a couple times in Grid 1, and while it serves to add to the immersion, overal I prefered a chase cam as it was faster. As such in Grid 2 I won’t miss the cockpit view. Though it’s a shame not to have the detail/option to use it. I did prefer cockpit view for the open wheel cars in the game.

wow what kind of a excuse is that! artists always create cockpits for cars these days including me!

No cockpit view means no simulation at all…and imagine le mans cars in there…without cockpit view they will be awful!!…but let’s just wait and see what’s coming in!…maybe they are hiding something!

Lol, and mobile games like real racing have cockpit, we are in year 2012 not 2005. What happend with CM, they had good games with good damage andd handling model.

It´s a pretty double-edged sword for me. Remembering Driver SF, I loved the cockpit view even for this arcadish action driving game (which I suppose GRID 2 is, too). It had much overview and controllability. Could be that a similar view in GRID would be missed by me. On the other hand I often love to drive from hood view in other games (even in sims) which often is enough for me.

So I dont know if I should cry about it or it doesn´t matter. But at all we can critisize the devs for leaving out a very popular feature nowadays (particularly they have cockpit view in nearly every of their games), probably to save costs and time. You really can´t find a reasonable explanatiion.

Deal breaker for me

Personally, I could care less what the Codies do, and I know they could care less about what we all might want, they have always ignored public opinion.

+1

Thats completely idiotic and they will see their fail with their amount of sales they get. even if it is a arcade racer i know enough people play in cockpit view.
It gives you more sense of immersion and you`re more “into” the game.
BS and NO buy for me.

I only have 2 letters for this reaction: BS!

They went for money instead of quality, that’s what happened.

Hi all , my opinion its simple : no cockpit view ——– no buy!!!! , what’s a point have a racing game with no cockpit view ? And yes i do have Grid game and i was looking to get Grid 2 , but now sorry ill go for AC for sure not even p.C.A.R.S (i do have a junior licence). and i don’t like p.C.A.R.S they cars drive like s***t just sorry can’t take it .

its amazing everyone seems to make such a big deal out of this. Its a decision like any other. If Mario cart would have no banana´s to shoot in its new version, would we care ?

If Counter strike would not have a Sniper rifle, i would of never played it. But in the end of the day, it would still have thousands of users..

Lets face it.. People that like GRID, for what it really is, will go for it.
I can not imagine that the sim racers, who think cockpits are important, would have GRID 2 on the ” must have ” list. Its like saying, i will never eat pasta, but it has to have tomato saus.

Forced cockpit as in iRacing. That is the way to go. If you putt the work on cockpits, and you think that people find it important, then make sure they use it.

Coming to think of that… Lets assume they would force a cockpit. i will bett you it would be the most disliked feature by its users.

In the end of the day, i dont even think Grid 2 has anything to do with what i call Sim Racing…. (That said, i am sure its fans will love it… with or without. )

The best possible experience for everyone WITHOUT COCKPIT VIEW ???????
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

+1

how can they know how many people using cockpit view?

The deal is done. GRID2 officially becomes a game you have only if it comes free with some hardware you buy :)

I don´t think GRID wants to be a simulation at all but simcade/ action driving game.

Good post, Wim. I fully agree. It´s a shame that most people rather tend to start complaining before waiting for more information or even gameplay to get an impression.

Ingame statistics or leaderboard information, I guess.

What a shame, this from a company claiming it will focus on racing titles. Loved Grid, no Grid 2 for me. Such a shame.

Why does 5% sound so low to everyone? What people gripe about on the internet or the game’s forums represents more of the game’s most hardcore community, rather than the userbase as a whole. Just because people make a loud noise online does not equate to a large number of people caring.

“they had good games with good damage and handling model.”

Really? Codemaster games have always been average in this department, and they still are just that… average. To expect more is reaching just a little bit too far IMHO. The earlier racing games such as TOCA 2 weren’t a patch on the serious games such as GPL which was released at the same time. The licensed damage model in the original grid was an welcome exception to this, but other than that… :shrug:

As far as I can see they haven’t really changed their outlook on the genre, end-product and target-market since 1997.

Yeah right. This game will sell like hotcakes. My forum had more pages/hits on grid 2 in the short space since announcement than AC and even Pcars after all this time. Arcade racers love this series and type of game. I predict the loss in sales for no cockpit view won’t even make a noticeable dent for CM.

Face it, “sim racers” are a minority and so are the sales figures they/we produce.

… and where did they get these numbers … from consoles players or PC … probably not PC … Anyway another codemaster crap I won’t buy …

Well I think we can confirm that sim racers like discussing arcade games most :)
iRacing Zolder previews – 2 comments, GSC Mini previews – 0 comments Grid cockpit view – 37 comments.

Whats the deal ? Do we care this much for a cockpit view in an arcade game ?
Plus if CM are right and only 5% use cockpit view then it makes sense not to spend time making them.

Well, if there is no cockpit view, I won’t be buying it.

+1

How far we’ve come. I remember when Codemasters games were notable because nobody else on consoles had cockpit views, back with TOCA 1 to 3 on the PS1. Now the almighty dollar dictates that not enough people care for it to be worthwhile. I just hope that they will release the BTCC license eventually so we can get a true sequel to TOCA 2.

Grid 2 will be an arcade game same as the first Grid game and all other Codemasters driving games. Why does anyone even care about this tripe?

Well exactly. If this was about an actual sim, you could understand people caring enough to debate it. But this ? Pffff

Whatever makes money , I don’t care what they do so long as they stop making adverts that claim the game is “real” and this constant association with real cars , like they have done with dirt and F1 games.

Id actually love for Codies to go back to making super arcade games rather than bogging themselves down , with these “arcade sim games” Codies was one of the best developers when it came to pure addictive game play now they are one of the best developers for polish and making the ultimate generic AAA driving games.

They are the Michael Bay of the games industry.

I guess semi arcade driving games are nice and safe from a design stand point so I can understand why you would do it as a business , they do employ allot of people and they do allot of staff development employing localy and training people.

Its risky having such a huge company and i belive they are half ownd by
Reliance Big Entertainment so evan if the core team or core owners of codies wanted to take design risks i doubt they can do anything that drastic , and why bother when the market wants to be milked by similar driving games over and over.

A mean good for arcade game, it looked nice, etc. And playing it online was fun, you make mistake and end in barrier. It wasn’t for wheel, but it was good on keyboard. TOCA was good, but .. it never comes back. Thanks for ISI and other companies.

What arcade game had better handling?

No cockpit view, no buy. Lost a customer.

sorry codies…no cockpit…no buy…just be lazy instead and finish the game faster so you can get rich…you are becoming more and more like EA…sad

I won’t even play the demo if available. What a stupid decision :(

don’t worry guys, this is when a modding group steps in! modders finish off what developers cant

kinda funny that out of all the things lacking in codies games it should be the absence of a cockpit that gets attention.

You want a ‘realistic’ cockpit view for your unrealistic game?

As for the high preference CM find for non-cockpit users….is that a surprise? We’re talking CM games here……few ‘simmers’ ever touch codies stuff, I imagine….so the absence of users choosing cockpit view simply confirms CM’s market (and its non-sim pedigree)

No, we like controversy, like every human. :P

No cockpit view is a joke. Even Flatout has cockipt view.

Codemasters, you loosers.

Even in an arcade racer title no cockpit view is a shame. Why not a racing game without cars? I agree for no cockpit view in mario kart, but I want a cockpit view even for arcade titles like GRID, Flatout or Dirt series.

No doubt about that.

Well I guess if it is like CM are saying that only 5% used it during online play then it really wouldn’t make sense to spend the time and resources on it.
And I think there may be some out there who are closet bonnet-view fans but don’t want to admit it :)

Personally no cockpit view is a deal breaker. Although I prefer the more genuine simulations, I find games like Grid, NFS, etc to be a lot of fun when I just want to fool around and not spend a lot of time. No cockpit – no buy.

So according to CM, to develop a proper cockpit view is much expensive than a 5% (or more) in sales drop. I hope they would contact WMD to arrange mass funding for the cockpit views. I will be happy to contribute

I know I’ve mentioned this game earlier but again, even Driver SanFran had cockpit views on every single of the 100+ cars that game has and it’s as arcade as it gets. It simply makes no sense, expecially when you consider that half the cars are recicled from the previous game and therefore have the same cockpit.

No cockpit – no buy…hello torrents!

Call me a heretic, but I find cockpit view less realistic and immersive in general. I have a single screen, and cockpit view feels way too restrictive. I lose any accurate sense of speed or place and have yet to find an FOV setting that feels intuitive. I usually wind up using bonnet cam to get the most natural sense of speed.

I’ve had the pleasure of using triple screen setups at trade shows and those absolutely benefit from a proper cockpit view.

I don’t fault Codemasters given their target audience for this game.

No cockpit view didn’t stop me buying NFS: Hot Pursuit, but then that is a full out arcade racer. It’s fun to play and I take the game for what it is.

I think it’s just Codies not being arsed to actually render the interiors of the vehicles they will be offering in GRID2, so it saves on loads of development work by the graphic artists. When they are trying to push titles as sim oriented and then not offer a cockpit view, they lose.

Touché, my friend.

Yeah, so if they include the cockpit, you take out the credit card ? ;)

(not that I care either way, to each his own… I know I won’t buy it no matter what, codies won’t have any of my money anymore, they’re too big to be honest.)

Greedy maybe, stupid, I don’t think so… Uncalled for.

Most don’t race online so what’s important about online stats?… It’s possible that most gamers use cockpit view and race only with AI. This 5% stuff is only bullshite to justify their laziness.

If you think the biggest difference between GRiD2 and AC is going to be cockpit view.. and that was your deciding factor…. then…. erm..

they and you surely couldn’t care less……….sorry, bit of a pet peeve there

Mario Kart with cockpit view? Hmm.. I think you’re onto something there. Wahooooo

Dont ask me, ask CM :) Thats the figures they are going by that lead them to make this decision.
I don’t think it is important personally. Grid 2 isn’t on my shopping list so this decision doesn’t affect me in any way. But… if I was to get Grid 2, the lack of cockpit view in this non-sim racing game wouldn’t bother me. I don’t know why sim-racers would be bothered one way or the other really.

often creatives and programmers just wanna do their job and get their money. i think so because i’m involved in dev process, not a game but complicated automatic system and i see how they work for years. i think there is no big difference. another nuance is… i’m pretty new to simracing but as far as i understand the scene many sim makers are quite possessed with what they do, with racing as well. i think the guys who take a decision to make something like rF or AC have different look to hiring criteria than those managers from codies. codies’ ppl probably just love simple and funny gaming and there is nothing about all those racing details, aesthets of which most of us appear to be.

And I estimated a 90% who did not use it, was I off…

Seems like you have just saved Codies 10 minutes of reading your bs comment on their game about how unrealistic it is and how bad it is because of that, just because you cannot read.

Oh and on the easy way out. Do I have to tell you it is much easier to leave something in that is already there than to take it out?

Finally, a comment that is written with common sense and actual thought
+1 mister

Indeed, we have all seem how modders fixed the DiRT series, GRiD and the F1 series!

I wish people actually put thought in their comments, instead of going Full Retard on something simple. 95% DOESNT USE IT, so 5% does use it, that is 1 out of 20.

Just because you want it doesnt mean Codies should, and certainly not when there are 19 others to disagree with you. If you are so pissed off about it make your own damn game with cockpit view.

Thank you

That’s proper grammar, I am referring to “they” as the Codies.

They got it from online players, as clearly stated in the quote. And I am quite sure the PC version had online too, so a simple guess here shows that PC gamers are bought too into these numbers.

Realistic FOV is the same, regardless of hood/bonnet/bumper cam or cockpit.

That’s a shame!! but maby thei’re right about the Grid player arent
ussing the cockpit vew, but i tink is because Grid hay a “bad” cockit
view in the 1rst place..

Never the less, if they compensate the lack of cockpit with better physics and FFB!!??

And is a real shame that a good developer like “codemasters” are now focusing more to apeal to the casual arcade gamer, and loosing the good an realistic race experience they once had on their games

No cockpit view, no purchase. Just lost a customer.

What is the point to bother about codemasters? lol There are so many big sim racing projects coming up!

For me, Project Gotham Racing 1,2,3 & 4 are my favourite arcade racers when it comes to this and last gen (consoles). Handing feels natural and nicely weighted, and not too over the top, easy to pick up and play with a control pad.

This game is TOCA (race driver), just with less and less fully licensed “Touring car race series’. Shame, as it was the V8 supercars, touring cars, DTM etc along with the career mode that drew me into the series in the beginning.

I think, when a lot of people race on-line they don’t use cockpit view; because their is a big advantage using hood or bumbper view! But most people play against A.I. And like to use all the different views. Especially cockpit. So Yes, their just cheaping out. I’m not interested in it, knowing it’s going to be a half hearted effort from Codemasters. Just trying to ride the wave of the popularity of the last good Grid.

Sorry, my friend.. I am referring to the phrase “could care less”, it should be “couldn’t care less”. Unless you do care..

IMHO Dirt 2/3 aren’t strongly open for a modding (can’t say anything about the F1 series, cause I do not play it). It’s a pity! RBR much obsolete, but at present it there is nothing to replace! I don’t understand for whom doing shit-game like WRC 1/2/3

So what’s next?
No cockpits in Dirt 4, F1 2013.
No tripple screen support or even NO STEERING WHEEL support, because only a certain percentage uses these features.
These are all dicisions which could easly be made.
Don’t like the road Codemasters Racings is heading.

I play only on PC.

Most players don’t play online, so online stat isn’t that important. And wanting casual racing game doesn’t mean immersion isn’t important, and cockpit view is very important for immersion. It really has nothing to do with arcade/sim debate.

Sorry for writing too complex sentences.

Again, you seem to want to get into this with me, but the online thing is something I care nothing about. Nor to I care whether or not a cockpit view is included in Grid 2.

I was simply stating that the reason CM gave for not putting the cockpit view in GRID 2 was that they had data from online play which showed only 5% of people used that view.
Maybe your comments should be directed to them.

I said online stats is not relevant since most players don’t play online. It seems we agree on that?

If most don’t play online, then yes, we agree. :)

I think codemasters need to get their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the fresh air because the toxic fumes seem to be impeding their judgement. Cockpit view is what makes or breaks a racing game in a major way. Who did they get research from? arcade kiddies who have never played a serious title before? Or gamers who just don’t know how to race a car in cockpit view and always resort to being in external view?

Cockpit view was the only way I played GRID and it was the best view in the game. Not having it in GRID 2 is pretty much making the game not worth even purchasing for me. A real shame because I loved GRID and was looking forward to GRID 2. I guess I can add GRID 2 to the bins list of games I won’t be purchasing.

To me it seems Codemasters is throwing off a whole bunch of bollocks because they want to do what most high end game developers want. Develop the game quick and make money and who gives a toss for the players. They’ll still buy it even if its for curiosity’s sake and they’ll make their money that way. What next? they’ll remove cockpit views from F1 2012 or 2013? What a joke!

How About virtualir do there own pole and send the results to codemasters LOL……..I think Big Ron would like that idea???

Then you missed out on a great arcade racer.

That was my whole point. Nabil says that ‘modders will fix everything’. It is clearly he has never played an Codies game, since everyone knows you dont really come much further than textures

Sure seems likely since barely anyone uses multiple screens and also the number of people using it isnt growing. Wait, what?!

On the other hand, the only reason there is steering wheel support is because the game supports joysticks, there isnt really any true steering wheel suport. The only reason it works is because a steering wheel is, per definition, a controller.

Now all have fun disliking this because my opinion doesnt suit you, just like the previous comments.

I’ve already posted a comment about about this, but want to expand a bit.

For me it comes down to the reason I do sim racing. Sim racing allows me to recreate, within the obvious limitations, the experience of driving cars I’ve only read about in places I’ll never see, and in some cases turn back the clock to do it.

I can put up with less than realistic physics if the cars are fun to drive. I can enjoy some of the ‘non-prototypical’ events like autocross in the streets of London, or GT cars around the Tokyo docks if the graphics are interesting and the AI competitive but beatable.

But take away cockpit view and you remove an essential element in satisfying the reasons I sim race. It no longer gives me the feeling of driving a car because I don’t drive sitting on the front bumper, hood, or roof.

Without cockpit view I will not spend my money on GRID 2, because I have no reason to.

I should add that I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to purchase
every sim or near-sim that has been released for nearly 20 years. Those without cockpit view were uninstalled the instant I realized it. Thankfully it’s easier to find that out now before hand than it once was so I won’t waste my money again.

Are you listening Codemasters? Do you care?

Fine the Arcade Racers can keep it I could care less Codemasters games are not on top of my lists of purchases. Wait they have been off my list for quite some time.

It’s said only 5% of players even know what the cars are, and less than 5% have ever been to a real race track so they have a free licence to make make believe cars / tracks now as well, save some money and time on those licences eh guys ;)

Somehow my last post got lost…

Anyways, I think cockpit view is the only view I want to use when racing. But I don’t really mind using bonnet or hood views for example if the cockpit view is poorly done. For example in gt5 the cockpitview shakes so much that for me it is impossible to use. The same goes for all kinds of racing games nowadays sadly.

Many games add this strange excessive rubberneck simulation with rediculous amounts of view bobbing and shaking which totally kills any feel of the car. So while I’d like to see cockpit view in every racing game I buy I’d also want it to be properly made.So in that sense I don’t really mind losing the badly done cockpit views with excessive shaking and centrifugal drier effects.

I’d also like even little bit of adjustability. Maybe an option to turn off the virtual steering wheel and hand animations and maybe another option to adjust the view shaking (with an option to turn it all off!). It would be nice if you could also adjust seating position and fov even on consoles. Sadly the industry seems to be going to the opposite direction. Instead of more adjustability and options there is less and less things you can adjust to your liking.

Well, don’t forget, the cockpits have to be modelled for every car that’s new. Along with the dashboard parts being connected and working in order to meet people’s standards.

I personally think that for open top cars, it’s not much of a problem. You’re modelling much of the interior anyway because it can be seen from outside. So why not just stick a camera where the driver’s head would be? :) Specifically the Ariel Atom and the BAC Mono pictured in the teaser.

However, I must confess, there are cars I drive from the bonet cam instead of the cockpit cam. I use the cockpit most of the time, but there are some cars where I just don’t like the cockpit camera. Either not immersive enough, or I can’t see clearly enough.. This hasn’t ever been a problem in Simbin games and such for me, but I did use the bonet cam instead in a few places in Grid 1 and Dirt 3.

Your old post is back. It got flagged for some reason. If you want to delete one, let me know.

Ah but you missed out on a point… Grid isn’t a sim. So while your argument holds completely true for sims, you can’t really demand the same from an arcade game.

1. why the hell did u waste tym n money making dirt showdown, when you should have been making cockpits for grid 2.
2. please tell me you dont have the f1 license for much longer.
3. i used to love codies but the way you handled this nakes me hate u. dont pass of ur laziness and greedy ways as some justified research. even if its 5% thats one in 20 which is tens of thousands of people.
eff u codies, i waited ages for grid 2!

im unhappy about the idea of taking out the option of the cockpit view driving experience , the only reason I bought the first grid game was for that reason & the realistic tracks from around the world as well! I could understand if the game was based on smash & crash or running from the police like need for speed etc. but grid is about track racing with super fast sports cars like indie cars & such. theres nothing I loved more than the feel of sitting in the car zooming around the tracks as if im really in the car! so im unsure whether I should cancel my pre order for grid 2 or give it a try but like dirt showdown I was very upset I wasted 60 bucks for a game that I assumed was another simulation game & was not! id hate for grid
2 to be as disappointing too!